Interesting article here on Jim PalmerOriginally Posted by khyndart in CA
I particularly love the hay bales used to narrow the Renwick street circuit in the opening photo
https://primotipo.com/2018/01/02/ren...-zealand-1965/
Interesting article here on Jim Palmer
I particularly love the hay bales used to narrow the Renwick street circuit in the opening photo
https://primotipo.com/2018/01/02/ren...-zealand-1965/
November 1963.
Renwick Race.
Jim Palmer in ex Hyslop Cooper-Climax with his favorite number 41
(Euan Sarginson photo )
Last edited by khyndart in CA; 01-04-2018 at 05:56 AM.
Thanks for the pics, Ken...
Funnily enough, the roll bar looks right. But the fuel filler doesn't!
Ray,
Do you think the filler is much different than what John Surtees has on his Cooper at Ardmore Jan. 1962 ?
Jan. 1962.
Jim Palmer. Feb. 1963.
This is a clearer view of the fuel filler when the Cooper T 53 was first tested by John Surtees under the watchful eye of Reg Parnell (on the left) at Goodwood in 1961.
(Ken H )
Last edited by khyndart in CA; 01-06-2018 at 12:16 AM. Reason: .
Question- Jim Palmer favourite number was 41 and he put it on his Porsche 911 for the 1971 season, would that be why Coppins changed his number from 41 ( 1970 season) to 141 (1971 season) ?November 1963.
Renwick Race.
Jim Palmer in ex Hyslop Cooper-Climax with his favorite number 41
(Euan Sarginson photo )
John Riley then went from 141 to 222
See #60 for these 2 cars together.
#60
http://www.theroaringseason.com/show...hlight=coppins
Last edited by John McKechnie; 01-06-2018 at 08:33 PM.
Sorry to take so long to reply, Ken...Originally posted by khybndart in CA
Ray,
Do you think the filler is much different than what John Surtees has on his Cooper at Ardmore Jan. 1962?
Photos of the T58 show no signs of a filler cap on the side at all. Though the rollover bar seems similar to the one on the car Palmer drove in early '63.
The lack of filler cap on that side is maybe conclusive. The rollover bar height is similar to a few Coopers of that era, need more proof that it is the same as T58
Height may be the same, but the shape is different on most...
And the fuel fillers might have originally hidden under bodywork and became exposed when holes were cut. The things we don't know.
I am most grateful to Ray and everyone for trying to solve this long-standing problem. The photographs certainly suggest that Palmer's car was a standard(ish) Lowline "T53", not the "Slimline" design of the "T58".
As to which T53 he had, I think that will be very difficult to ascertain. Parnell's team acquired three production T53s for 1961 but almost immediately were racing four of them, and it looks to me that they may have made up a fifth at some point. Parnell later did the same with Lotus 21s and Lotus 24s, so the extra cars should not be a surprise. I have used the identity "P2" for the Palmer car. To reiterate my justification for this:
As Ray so wisely says, "The things we don't know."The name 'P2' is given here to the fourth standard T53 used by Yeoman-Credit in 1961. As well as the three cars that appear in Cooper records (F1-1-61, F1-2-61 and F1-4-61), they produced a streamliner known as "VR", one extra standard car and later a T56-based car. When the T56-based car appeared at Monza, Denis Jenkinson noted that this brought their team strength to six, two F1s, two ICs and now two specials. The Formula 1 Register developed the notation 'P1', 'P2', to denote extra cars built by the Parnell team and their notation is used for "VR" ['P1'] and the extra standard car ['P2'].
Allen, when you refer to "Palmer's car" - are you referring to the Bowmaker 'T55' he had use of in the pre-Tasman series of '63, or the car that they subsequently purchased - i.e. the 'T53' that carried a T45 chassis plate?
Jim recalls them as being similar cars but where the 55 "felt a heavier car"
The Bowmaker car, that's what this thread's all been about...
So what happened to this heavy 2.7 T53/55 that came to New Zealand twice then to Australia with Jim Palmer. Did the car return to NZ, remain in OZ or was it shipped back to GB after the Australian series.
Did that car go to NZ twice?
According to Allen's site all three 1962 Bowmaker Coopers used in NZ and Australia were crashed or sold. That's quoted on an earlier page of this thread.
The team toured in '63 with two Lolas fitted out with 2.7-litre engines and the car Palmer used was their spare. It never remained in Australia.
From notes -- Cooper FPF 2495cc F1/2/61 John Surtees NZ 1962
-- Cooper FPF 2707cc F1/2/61 Bowmaker/JP NZ 1963
It may have stayed in NZ during 1962 and they fitted a spare 2.7 for 1963?
Last edited by Kwaussie; 01-10-2018 at 11:42 AM.
What post number was that Ray - I have looked back but can't see it on an earlier page. Cheers
Sorry, that must have been on the other thread...
However, on this one we certainly had the discussion about F1/2/61 having been sold to Lex Davison in early 1962 and subsequently crashed, moving on to Don Fraser for some years.
Yes maybe but nothing to do with the Bowmaker car that you say we are talking about on this thread .
Last edited by Kwaussie; 01-10-2018 at 12:26 PM.
Can you please tell us about " the other thread" or are we not privy to a separate little chat?
http://forums.autosport.com/topic/20.../#entry8214649
And it's not there ether... I must have just taken what was needed from Allen's site and used that here.
Of course F1/2/61 is nothing to do with this discussion. Even if that was the chassis number recorded for the car we are talking about!
Last edited by Ray Bell; 01-10-2018 at 01:41 PM.
Kwaussie,
This was Ray's input on # 12 post.
"Allen points out that there were no 'T55' or 'T58' designations...
Firstly, as background, it's important to remember that the term "T58" was not used at the time. Cooper only invented their "T" number system in 1963, so the T58 was just the V8 Climax prototype to reporters in 1961 and 1962. He also says this of the Bowmaker-owned F1/2/61:
[I]One clue may be that Parnell had a spare Cooper for the 1963 'Tasman' races two months later. It's not obvious what that was, as Parnell had sold or wrecked all three cars they had taken out to the antipodes in 1962 (F1-1-61 to South Africa. F1-2-61 to Lex Davison and F1-4-61 wrecked by Salvadori)[/I].
Could it be they took the T58 as their spare and that was the car raced by Jim Palmer? Photographs of Palmer's would be really useful. So that car was already with Davison in '62."
Last edited by khyndart in CA; 01-10-2018 at 08:20 PM.
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