New Zealand Historic Saloon Cars Under HRC

[AMCO72]

What are you suggesting here Spgeti........that we convert the Amco Mini to 12 inch rims??? Some of the competitors in the 1972 BNSW championship were on 12in wheels but not us........and never will be. I have no doubt there is a better selection of tyres for that size, but too bad, we will just have to struggle on with our C49 crossply's !!!!!!! Hopefully we will get a very generous handicap. !!

Our Arden head engine is in for major surgery, and its recovery may/will depend on finance. Meantime I have the engine we built for the first Festival in 2010 sitting in my motor-house, and this could well end up back in the car........will need an even more generous handicap with that !!!!

[Spgeti]

C49s.....it will go better than ever Gerald

Cheers
Bruce

[ERC]

Our Arden head engine is in for major surgery, and its recovery may/will depend on finance. Meantime I have the engine we built for the first Festival in 2010 sitting in my motor-house, and this could well end up back in the car........will need an even more generous handicap with that !!!!

No problem... But first of all, it has to be out racing!

[khyndart in CA]

Please excuse my ignorance but factory Minis came out with 12 in rims in 1984.
Did they race on that size earlier than that ?

AMCO72 " Some of the competitors in the 1972 BNSW championship were on 12in wheels but not us........and never will be."


(Ken Hyndman )

[Steve Holmes]

I think Barry Phillips was on 12 wheels by around 1971? For sure, his were of a larger diameter than most of the other Minis.

[Steve Holmes]

I knew I wasn't going crazy! At least, not just yet. Mike Feisst photo of Barry Phillips' beautiful Cambridge Mini, fitted with, I believe, 12" wheels?

By the way, this car is now owned by Barry's son Graeme, who is planning a full restoration on it back to this famous livery.

[Spgeti]

What a beautiful car.
The video clip stated that the 12 inch wheels had just been homologlated, and that was 1968. Most likely with the Arden heads and injection.

[AMCO72]

That car had been lying around for a while, and we were so pleased when Graeme bought it. BUT, he paid top price for it and some of the good bits had been robbed. Angus and Graeme have been communicating trying to source some genuine parts. It is going to be a long job so dont hold your breath.......something like this is going be in the six figure ball park, but will be a great asset when it is done.

Looking forward to it jousting with the Amco Mini as it did all those years ago.......

[Frosty5]

Bruce, have just PM'd you.
Cheers Dave Graham

[Spgeti]

PM sent Dave

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

Newest car to join the Historic Saloon Car ranks, is Darron Curphey's pretty Fiat 131. The car has been built to MSNZ T&C rules, was built many years ago, and has a COD.

Darron will be racing at the TACCOC event at Pukekohe on October 3.

[ERC]

Just to clarify, Darron also races in the ERC Series, but that TACCOC October meeting is not one of our rounds, so hopefully, your grid will be boosted. No cars doing double duty. Sadly, I'll miss it as I am overseas.

[Spgeti]

Nice to have you aboard Darron. I am sure you will enjoy yourself out there with the big boys as well. You preformed really well at AROC May Madness this year and enjoying Trofeo as well. Good photo of you out at Manfeild this year with Dr Bruce Stewart in his very quick 105.

[ERC]

[Steve Holmes]

Nice to have you aboard Darron. I am sure you will enjoy yourself out there with the big boys as well. You preformed really well at AROC May Madness this year and enjoying Trofeo as well. Good photo of you out at Manfeild this year with Dr Bruce Stewart in his very quick 105.

This to my mind is a perfect example of why it makes sense to build either a T&C or Schedule K car and get a COD. Although MSNZ have never had any involvement in historic car racing in NZ, and have never enforced the COD system, their rules are overall very good.

But why go off on a tangent and build a morphodite monster that provides its owner so few places to actually race, when you could have something like this, that is generally accepted anywhere, and as its owner proves, does actually race in multiple different series'.

[ERC]

Fair comment Steve, but there is another side to it. "Their rules overall" are very good. The devil is in the detail...

Those NOT running CoD cars actually have plenty of races they can enter and many drivers (myself included) are not looking for more races. There is a limit. Why build a car for just 4 or 5 races a year for 'pure' CoD cars when you can build one for 7 or 8 races a year without a CoD - usually running at the same meetings anyway? At this stage, the TACCOC October meeting is the only one in the local season where the Historic Saloon saloon class is running and the other saloon classes aren't. Round 1, a total of 8 cars for the last race of the Icebreaker meeting, for a combined class of 3 groups is surely saying something?

As stated many, many times before, there are plenty of cars that would qualify for a CoD but the owners see no advantage. I suggest you have a long chat to the organisers, past and present, of the Alfa Trofeo Series, who will explain where the faults are with the T & C rules and why so many of their cars, whilst acceptable to them and to us, do not conform.

[Jac Mac]

'Morphodite'- a plant or animal with both male/female sex organs- really , what has that got to do with race cars. Might be a good time to remember that race cars of all types in this country were around before the revenue gathers decided to concoct unnecessary stuff like COD's and various shedules etc. The cars really don't care where they race or who with, its only the drivers/owners & circuit organisers etc along with other well meaning misguided individuals who want to put them in different size packages.

This to my mind is a perfect example of why it makes sense to build either a T&C or Schedule K car and get a COD. Although MSNZ have never had any involvement in historic car racing in NZ, and have never enforced the COD system, their rules are overall very good.

But why go off on a tangent and build a morphodite monster that provides its owner so few places to actually race, when you could have something like this, that is generally accepted anywhere, and as its owner proves, does actually race in multiple different series'.

[Steve Holmes]

'Morphodite'- a plant or animal with both male/female sex organs- really , what has that got to do with race cars. Might be a good time to remember that race cars of all types in this country were around before the revenue gathers decided to concoct unnecessary stuff like COD's and various shedules etc. The cars really don't care where they race or who with, its only the drivers/owners & circuit organisers etc along with other well meaning misguided individuals who want to put them in different size packages.

Jac, I'd be staggered if you actually agreed with my comments, as you've been openly critical of the Historic Muscle Cars concept of having a class that uses a strict set of rules, rather than being a free-for-all. And thats fair enough.

Certainly, the classic/historic racing scene in NZ does allow room for both, which really offers car owners a great number of options. But as Ray Green said in post #112, this particular Fiat also races in his group, which isn't going to be at this particular TACCOC vent. The fact the car was built to MSNZ T&C rules and has a COD means its owner can jump in and race with HSC. This in itself proves my point, as here is a good example of a car owner wanting to race at this event, and the fact his car has been built the way it is, means there is a place for him to race.

[Spgeti]

Fair comment Steve, but there is another side to it. "Their rules overall" are very good. The devil is in the detail...

Those NOT running CoD cars actually have plenty of races they can enter and many drivers (myself included) are not looking for more races. There is a limit. Why build a car for just 4 or 5 races a year for 'pure' CoD cars when you can build one for 7 or 8 races a year without a CoD - usually running at the same meetings anyway? At this stage, the TACCOC October meeting is the only one in the local season where the Historic Saloon saloon class is running and the other saloon classes aren't. Round 1, a total of 8 cars for the last race of the Icebreaker meeting, for a combined class of 3 groups is surely saying something?

As stated many, many times before, there are plenty of cars that would qualify for a CoD but the owners see no advantage. I suggest you have a long chat to the organisers, past and present, of the Alfa Trofeo Series, who will explain where the faults are with the T & C rules and why so many of their cars, whilst acceptable to them and to us, do not conform.

Life must really end at the Bombay's as they say Ray....

I will say this once...Trofeo do not represent the majority of Alfa Romeo racers in this country.
I have been a member of AROC for now 15 years an Area Rep up until this year and one of the principle orgainisers of AROC May Madness Meeting at Manfeild which is now into its 30th year.

The last count there were in in excess of 80 AROC racers countrywide and many of their car fit the COD regulations.
My car was built in 2003 to race in Trofeo and to the COD regulations and the then Trofeo Rules that were applicable at the time.
They changed the rules to exclude all car except those with full cages. That one change excluded my car with its half cage.
I have raced my 105 all over the lower North Island, sprints, rallies, hillclimbs, Winter Series and MG Whitakers and never been rejected.
I have many good friends in Trofeo and wish to keep it like that, but please do not tell me that they are the knowlegable people that run racing for AROC in NZ, in Auckland yes, but no where else.

Cheers
Bruce Dyer

[Steve Holmes]

Fair comment Steve, but there is another side to it. "Their rules overall" are very good. The devil is in the detail...

Those NOT running CoD cars actually have plenty of races they can enter and many drivers (myself included) are not looking for more races. There is a limit. Why build a car for just 4 or 5 races a year for 'pure' CoD cars when you can build one for 7 or 8 races a year without a CoD - usually running at the same meetings anyway? At this stage, the TACCOC October meeting is the only one in the local season where the Historic Saloon saloon class is running and the other saloon classes aren't. Round 1, a total of 8 cars for the last race of the Icebreaker meeting, for a combined class of 3 groups is surely saying something?

As stated many, many times before, there are plenty of cars that would qualify for a CoD but the owners see no advantage. I suggest you have a long chat to the organisers, past and present, of the Alfa Trofeo Series, who will explain where the faults are with the T & C rules and why so many of their cars, whilst acceptable to them and to us, do not conform.

Its probably not fair to deem a new class a success or failure based on its very first attempt, held at an event known for its fickle support, and during a cold spring. The Historic Formula 5000 group, which has been running for many years, and which now has 50 cars registered in NZ, had just 12 cars enter the GP event last season. Does this prove this class to be a failure?

Despite your misgivings, there are people who do support the idea of building their cars to either T&C, or Schedule K rules, and gaining a COD. Part of the problem is that to date, there hasn't been much reason to actually coax car owners to want to do this. HSC was created to support these people, as while its true there are indeed plenty of places to race a car without a COD, by the same token, there are very few places that cater only to cars with a COD.

Only time will tell if heading down this path was the right or wrong decision. And it may very well take years. But certainly, a decision can't be made after just one event.