PUKEKOHE

[Howard Wood]

Probably a tough call either way Carl but as I am pretty sure there is a flag point between the right and left hander (turns 4 & 5) in the new complex a yellow flag should appear right in front at approx 25 secs on the first clip. I have looked and can't see one. Does that mean a yellow was not out despite several cars being off the circuit 1.5 corners ahead?

In the second clip the in car visibilty and camera angle are so bad that its impossible to see but at the approach to turn 4 there appears to be a green flashing light. Presumably the all clear from an incident further back.

Either way, the conditions were atrocious for both drivers and flaggies so some leeway needs to be given. The fundamental issue is that $6million plus was spent and clearly not on drainage.

[Carlo]

New seal is all ways slippery in the wet until it has time to age and the oils in the bitumen compound are dispersed, these oils do take some time to work their way out to the surface and hot dry dusty days do help but it does take time and until this process is completed the new seal will be quite slippery in the wet. Even if you had a severe camber on the road and perfect drainage the new seal will still be slippery until the oils disperse.

Just think of what happens when you get a diesel spill on a sealed road and then it rains afterwards for that is pretty much what is happening.

Howard, crap weather conditions are not an excuse for failure to operate flag points correctly in fact this is when they should be at their very very best. In that respect as a Clerk of Course I have been fortunate to have worked with some excellent flag and trackside teams on a number of circuits and in some pretty adverse conditions, they never once looked like letting me or any competitor down and I trusted their actions and their judgement completely.

[RogerH]

I was talking to a driver today and evidently the surface conditions at the subject part of the track where the carnage happened, was not so much to do with dispersing of the new bitumen oils but more with drainage. The track had been slippery but manageable until such time as the drainage (or lack of it) at that section of the track resulted in standing water across the track that caused aquaplaning. On the previous lap it was OK - the next lap you were aquaplaning with no warning.

[Rod Grimwood]

Just watched both videos and yes there are some questions to be answered, Green light when cars are against fence ? in second video as you come down back straight to kink you can see cars going off, why continue at pace ? (mind you GREEN light is on) in first video the guy is sittng there for awhile as another car goes down outside of them and then cops Video car 2 up the arse. Some one was not on the flags or relaying message to control.
Definate green light with cars (plural as in a few more than one) in a very dangerous position.

[rogered]

GeEZz dont blame the flaggies
Its pi$$ing down with rain.
The guy in the second video is on lap 4 ( he has already been over this part of the track 3 times in the last 5 minites) so the surface conditions are Known to him.
There are clearly brake lights on the cars already off on the grass.
our man maybe should have slowed a little, but then again ,he was in a race

[nigel watts]

I thought the green light may have been a railway signal.

[Carlo]

I thought the green light may have been a railway signal.

They are.

[Heartbeat]

AS one of those cars in the Honda race I got off lightly with a repair bill of $2600 after being hit in turn two by an aquaplaning supertourer driver just driving too fast for the scary conditions , yes I have a bill which I shouldn"t have he has a broken hand which is far worse than any damage I incured but have driven on the same track in the same conditions a few years ago in a six hour race where they red flagged it straight away maybe that is the answer the circuit is not the same one we have all raced on before and never will be again.

[Rod Grimwood]

I thought the green light may have been a railway signal.

Good call Nigel, but think V8 Supercars operate a light system as well as flags, No sure but have seen it.

[John McKechnie]

AS one of those cars in the Honda race I got off lightly with a repair bill of $2600 after being hit in turn two by an aquaplaning supertourer driver just driving too fast for the scary conditions , yes I have a bill which I shouldn"t have he has a broken hand which is far worse than any damage I incured but have driven on the same track in the same conditions a few years ago in a six hour race where they red flagged it straight away maybe that is the answer the circuit is not the same one we have all raced on before and never will be again.

You are absolutely correct, any thing done has changed it- especially with the concrete barriers right against the track means the water cannot drain away.

[beowulf]

You are absolutely correct, any thing done has changed it- especially with the concrete barriers right against the track means the water cannot drain away.

This track has a FIA licence and it is a shocker. What is MSNZ doing to correct it? Tracks used to have a log book that had problem areas noted by the steward, does this still apply?
When the Honda's went out for their race some were on slicks. Gambling that the weather would improve. It would be interesting to know what tyres those that crashed were on. Puke is just not safe in the wet now, it always was marginal. I hope it is fine for the V8s.

[ERC]

Given the weather that day was obviously getting worse rather than better, I am staggered that anyone would have gone out on slicks.

Although our final race was wet, all 27 cars that started it managed to get home without panel damage. Insisting on Dot rated, WoF legal treaded tyres, may well have been a lucky rule. I feel really sorry for any driver who was an innocent party and suffered panel damage - and that extends to the owners who were not in the driving seat at the time. I hope the guest drivers front up and assist with the cost of repairs.

There is nothing more frustrating in motorsport than having to drive or trailer a damaged car home when it wasn't in anyway your fault. I think in all three damage causing accidents have been involved in (two at Pukekohe, one at Whenuapai), I was the innocent party and it is a risk we all take.

It does mean that the U2K cup series is looking more and more attractive to regular drivers of classic cars, who may just decide to park them up to preserve them, not just the new guys.

[nzeder]

2kcup does look interesting, points go to the team not just the driver so given the program of either 1 hour race or 2 30 mins races I see cheap fun for 2 drivers and 1 Car for $1000 in each for a car then add in safety gear etc that will spread the cost + both will want to drive = keep it going and tidy so the other can drive.

However this is off topic....back to puke...so drainage appears to be worse than before, it always had it issues, so will these get looked into or will it take a wet Oz supercar v8 race to kick start a drainage improvement project?

[John McKechnie]

Lets look at responsibility here- do racers have to put up with what is obviously risky to dangerous when wet and the track is allowed to be used.
Will those responsible for providing a race track actually take responsibility for what what they provide.
If they were forced to take responsibility then could this important drainage work take place?
If it rains for the Supertourers , and there was mass carnage who carries the can and still would anything get done then?

Or do racers have this situation forever or not race there?

[ERC]

Ask Len Brown...

I'm with Beowulf. Until such time as the problems are resolved, if it rains, my car stays in the paddock/pits. Rain tyres or treaded tyres are fine but they don't stop aquaplaning on standing water - which just shouldn't be there on a supposedly uprated track.

[John McKechnie]

Ray- Thats a passive and not very productive response from a series organizer.
Wheres your Churchillian fighting spirit on this vital matter?

[Frosty5]

The spiritual home of NZ Motor racing, was before but no longer. Lets face it guys, $6million to make it mutton dressed as lamb and it hasn't worked. And the dribble that poured forth from Larkham and Skaife about how great it was. Reciprocal back slapping no less! Well I guess you have to talk it up after conning the council and its ratepayers.Concrete barriers from a---hole to breakfast, obscuring back straight action, standing water at critical points on the circuit. Auckland ratepayers must be wondering if Len has been on K2 to agree to the package that Cochrane and his cronies sold them. I am just amazed at the incompetence of the parties involved and yes the councillors here in Hamilton to be sold such a pup. I have mentioned it previously, how good would that money have been for HD and have a genuine Tier 2 facility while Puke is still a Tier 3 with all that money spent on it. Shades of Bernie Ecclestone you may ask????

[ERC]

Ray- Thats a passive and not very productive response from a series organizer.
Wheres your Churchillian fighting spirit on this vital matter?

Passive it may be John , but as there are only two cars (yes just two) like mine in the country, sometimes, discretion is the better part of valour. Unlike those who have a ready supply of body and mechanical parts available comparatively easily, plus those running cars where the overall production run was in the 1,000s, just spare a thought where there were less than 200 made of a particular make/model. In Beowulf's case, I believe his car is unique.

As for fighting spirit, "He who runs away, lives to fight another day..."

I respect any driver who calculates the risks and withdraws. If it was good enough for Nikki Lauda, it is good enough for us. Fix the track and things might be different but until it is fixed, it is a driver's right to not put himself or his car at risk, let alone other drivers.

Just think what would have happened if the first Honda driver had quickly stepped out and gone behind his car (a natural reaction) to hop over the barrier and been crushed by the next car falling off? We could so easily have been looking at a fatality.

[John McKechnie]

There is a story of a top European F5000 driver in the 70s Tasman Series at a race meeting in Queensland during severe rain.
At one corner , during practice, there was nothing on the corner to stop drivers leaving the track and disappearing into a small lake, there were even divers on standby.
He refused to race unless a chicane went in.
The track organizers put a chicane in, drivers crashed against it, including our hero , in the rain.
Result was no one got hurt or drowned, organizer listened to the complaint and acted.
Do we want drivers leaving their cars at home anytime the weather is overcast?
And yes, Ray, I also have a rare car - I want to be able to run the one and only authentic Team Cambridge Monaro there in relative safety, if there is a shower.
So who needs to have put the pressure on them?
And who will lead this challenge?

[John McKechnie]

Rodgered- you have put this beautifully with such simplicity.
Now who is the person in authority-Car Club , or MSNZ or such duly endowed person who will go to this person in charge at Puke to get this corrected as soon as possible ?
ANYONE PLEASE????????????