Safety Issues

[AMCO72]

Actually markec, mental health is part of the question and answer on the medical examination form. It is the first question in a list of disorders and you are required to answer yes or no.......[a] have you ever had, or do you now have any of the following.....Nervous breakdown, mental disease or disorder? So one has to ask, who would say yes to that!!!! And a bit later...[g] Dizziness, fainting spells, epilepsy, fits or black-outs? It's my guess that if the answer to any of those was YES, then it's all over.....back to the knitting!!! Who would have thought that a discussion on race-car safety would have touched on so many issues.

[Wal Will]

I always thought you had to be mad to go motor racing!

[bob homewood]

Its optional Wal ,but as time moves on I'm sure it helps

[AMCO72]

markec, I'm certainly no Kenny, and if he still enjoys the game and passes his medical, I suppose that is alright. The fact of the matter is though, that the older we get the more likely we are to have a medical incident. Maybe, just maybe, his accident at Manfield was a warning. In my case, while I enjoy racing around in the Mini, it is not really my thing, and to be honest, I'm pretty bloody slow. On any race-track in NZ, Angus is at least 4 seconds a lap, in the same car, quicker than me, so that should tell you something......I'm past it!! I would be much better getting a pre61 saloon, and 'race' in oldfarts proposed class.......driving the cars 'vigorously' I think is how he put it, slipping and sliding all over the place. Sounds like fun to me, but I still need a medical.

[markec]

The other issue which has been addressed to a degree but it seems that competitors are getting around it is, the requirement to have competed in 4 other meetings before being eligible for a Scope entry.Scope is primarily an invitation meeting so they have some control, but under normal circumstances competitors only have to have a competition license, a vehicle with enough money to run it and they are away.
On our open highways come holiday time we have the roads full of drivers who have not driven much over 50kms all year and are let loose to travel distances they only do once a year at speeds they are unaccustomed to.Hence lack of concentration, speed,road conditions are foreign to them and so there are mishaps.
It would seem this is the case with some classes of motor racing, classics being one of them. Late middle aged males who can now afford to take to the circuit,who don't do their own building ,maintenance but are basically cheque book racers who's perceptions of the efforts that go into rebuilding damaged cars only goes as far as their bank balance and is not really relative to anything like reality.
These are other area's where the modern safety direction is needed to progress to, you can't legislate against idiocy.

[AMCO72]

I didn't know that was requirement of Skope entry. Do you mean 4 meetings in total, or 4 meetings within a certain time frame? You might only do one meeting a year, say the Skope, which is not much better than none at all. And cheque book racers......yes well, that is now par for the course. We all get a certain amount of work done by professionals, as there would be few of us capable of tackling every job in a rebuild. I am lucky in that respect for I have my 'man' to do most stuff for me. Quite often he pays the bill as well, so I am really fortunate!!!! Dodgy repairs etc don't always show up at scrutineering, and Jac Mac has discovered 'things' that have escaped the eagle eye of previous scrutiny. As I said, I would hope that we put some value on our own skins and did things properly, but I have seen repairs done at meetings after crashes that would not stand too much inspection, and safety is compromised.

[Grant Ellwood]

Gerald, you tell Kenny he's past it and should retire, I agree that some of the bodies that are peeled out of their Nomex cover's are less than healthy looking, but are probably within the medical requirements. I like you take medication for a couple of disorders, including blood pressure and know I am now longer fit, but in my case my length precludes me from fitting into a race car so that issue has never arisen.Mental health is an issue that is not covered within the competition licensing medical, perhaps it should be.

Hopefully Kenny wil be racing for many years ahead, the crash at Manfield could have happened to any pro.
He is the inspiration for all of us old boys (and girls).

[Dave Silcock]

markec, I'm certainly no Kenny, and if he still enjoys the game and passes his medical, I suppose that is alright. The fact of the matter is though, that the older we get the more likely we are to have a medical incident. Maybe, just maybe, his accident at Manfield was a warning. In my case, while I enjoy racing around in the Mini, it is not really my thing, and to be honest, I'm pretty bloody slow. On any race-track in NZ, Angus is at least 4 seconds a lap, in the same car, quicker than me, so that should tell you something......I'm past it!! I would be much better getting a pre61 saloon, and 'race' in oldfarts proposed class.......driving the cars 'vigorously' I think is how he put it, slipping and sliding all over the place. Sounds like fun to me, but I still need a medical.

Well Amco I always thought we did this for fun,I know I have in my stop start involvement with motor sport [took nearly a decade off to race classic bikes]. It could be that you are enjoying the Mini more than Angus, so whats wrong with your lap times?

[Dave Silcock]

A good point and a dilemma for the driver.

MSNZ regulations state that for Sch K cars of pre 1960 era the use of a safety harness is not mandatory but recommended.

With the earlier single seaters (1940/50s) I wear a lap belt to stop being tossed around. In the 1960 single seater without a rollbar I wear a five point belt - when you think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense ................

Attachment 7151

There seems too much emphasis on the rollover accident, you can have plenty of health threatening incidents with out a roll over. Which is why I choose to wear seat belts in my Cooper Vincent. I was driving a Cooper Bristol at Wigram once when I was hit with a fair amount of force in the left rear wheel while exiting the hair pin. I was later shown a photo of the incident and to my surprise both arms where flung above my head and my whole upper body was out of the car and my helmet almost scraping the track. Rollbar or not I'd still have belts.

[Rod Grimwood]

Think Dave hit it on the head AMCO, are you enjoying what you are doing, and who cares about your times. Looked like a smile on your face last time i saw you in the Mini, so surely thats all that matters. I hope to be back one day so we can give each other a wave at the back as we strive for that position.
Yep definately belts.

[markec]

The Scope requirement is for 4 race meetings within the past 12 months.

[AMCO72]

I seem to remember some years ago that competitors who were new to the game, or only competed at a few events, had a series of white strips on the rear of the car to warn other competitors that the guy in front MAY do something unusual, so be on your guard. Haven't seen these for years; was the practice discontinued. I suppose the idea behind it was a safety thing, but don't remember it being very effective. So to qualify for a Skope meeting, you would have had to have been fairly active in the previous 12 months, so that would rule me out.

[AMCO72]

Seeing as we have touched on the age thing here with Kenny, we might as well expand on it, as it definately applies to me, and I'm sure it could be a safety issue. I dont know the ages of the drivers around me, but those who have been paying attention on this forum will know that I am 73. Now, I ask you, truthfully, do you really want to be racing, half a hairs breadth away from me, knowing that because of my advancing years, I could have a medical incident? Or, that because I am old,YES OLD, and am a bit cautious, and as Angus is fond of saying, 'wobbling all over the track'. The Guys behind me must feel like giving me a serve up the arse so they can get on with the business of racing. Perhaps we can have a class of 70+ racers, then we can all wobble all over the track together. No seriously, ours is a dangerous sport, lets not make any bones about that, and things go wrong with the most alert minds behind the wheel. Here I am, sitting on the starting line, right foot shaking, left leg getting cramp, squinting through my bifocals to see the lights, having a good cough from all the fumes around me, and sitting in a sauna, and I am expected to go out and do battle with all these hot-shots around me. You tell me that's OK.

[Grant Ellwood]

Obviously revolves around how good your faculties are, some of us age better than others (I'm in the others).
Paul Newman was darn quick into his 80s and Elliot Forbes Robinson still competes at pro level in US road racing at 69. A lot of guys here don't start any sort of racing until they retire, some prefer to take their racing quietly in the stricter vintage series, others jump into single seater classes with the young guns. Oh and I just remembered Brian Redman, just fantastic to watch in action.
He told me he was kicked out of a vintage race meet for going too quick so he went and started his own series which is very popular with drivers who want to race a bit harder than most organisations allow.

[Carlo]

Here I am, sitting on the starting line, right foot shaking, left leg getting cramp, squinting through my bifocals to see the lights, having a good cough from all the fumes around me, and sitting in a sauna and you tell me that's OK.

Hell yes !!!!!!

[Grant Ellwood]

Amerikiwi
Take a look at a Sprint or a midget car. There are Knee Guards to protect your knees/pins from banging away at the steering box. Simple and works well. Good luck with your quest

Thanks Horizon, I should have thought of the speedway guys, they have more rolls than Amish pastry-cooks (my neighbours).

[AMCO72]

And I dont want some smart alec to come on here and tell me 'your only as old as you think' because that is nonsense! We all feel as though we are still 25, but I put it to you, have a go at doing the things you did at 25, and you will find your woefully inadequte in ALL departments!!!

[Rod Grimwood]

AMCO, back when 25, something we used to do all night now takes all night.

[Grant Ellwood]

And I dont want some smart alec to come on here and tell me 'your only as old as you think' because that is nonsense! We all feel as though we are still 25, but I put it to you, have a go at doing the things you did at 25, and you will find your woefully inadequte in ALL departments!!!

Yes AMCO, brings to mind the medical checks you mentioned earlier, hard to require 25-75s to meet the same standards.
For example, typical of many 60 plussers, I don't like driving after dark any more, luckily there are some activities you don't need good (or any) vision for....

[Rod Grimwood]

When you live up here no sense driving after dark as they all off the beach and in a bar or back at the backpackers, so to the bar, bugger.