Do you have the "recreation answers", hope you are not holding info back on the boy's
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Do you have the "recreation answers", hope you are not holding info back on the boy's
I DO.
I HAVE SOME OF THE PARTS FROM THE OLD CUSTAXIE, IF I WAS TO MAKE UP A CAR WITH THE PARTS THAT I HAVE WHAT WOULD YOU CALL MY CAR. A RESTORED ORIGINAL CAR OR A REPLICA OF THE OLD CAR.
Dear Custaxie50, I am sure that with a question like that, you are going to receive a veritable avalanche of replies. Now, starting with your 'nom-de-plume'....Custaxie50, one would have to assume that you have an intimate knowledge of the car, or of CustaxieI, as I have been calling it, so you are either Robbie himself, which I dont think you are, or a person who has parts of the original, which was by all accounts stripped of the GOOD bits and the rest taken to the land-fill. I always thought that the rear half of the CustaxieI still existed, but maybe I am wrong, however if as you say you do have some parts of that car and you decided, for whatever reason, to rebuild it, then the provenance of CustaxieII, which has been offered on trademe, is called into question. In fact we suspect that MOST of Custaxie II is new, so that would make your replica/recreation with SOME original parts more authentic, wouldn't it? BUT, if you did that, and at some future race meeting BOTH cars turned up, there could be a problem. One has to assume that you offered the bits you have to the builders of Custaxie II, but they decided that it was easier to start from scratch. As to what you would call your replica/recreation/rebuild/restoration......well take your pick. But actually I dont think you are going to do that, so it is a question that will be forever unanswered, and I think you are just winding all us armchairs critics up. I for one am quite happy with CustaxieII. I know what it is, or isn't, and is no worse than a lot of 'original' cars out racing that are claiming to be something they aren't. Robbie built CustaxieII so you cant get much better provenance than that.
It's just the old Grandpas axe thing, except all the heads and handles were replaced in one smack, instead of over a number of years. So in that respect there is no continuous history with the car, but it still does the business.
It may not be exactly like "Grandpa's axe". With a "Grandpa's axe", the axe always existed but with different heads and different handles from time to time. With the Custaxie, it appears that for many years it had ceased to exist only to be reborn in a configuration that may or may not be the same as when it originally existed.
With "Custaxie50" (which if he is the same "Custaxie50" on TradeMe is Norm from Manawatu) it depends what parts he actually has and what he does with them. If the parts are significant components of the original car (and can be verified as such) and they are used to build a car that really replicates the original Custaxie then, as Gerald says, there is a problem between the status of this car and the TradeMe "Custaxie" ............
Well, we will have to wait and see if 'Norm from Manawatu' if that's who Custaxie50 is, will tell us what he has of the old car. If he does have some significant bits, then the CustaxieI did NOT cease to exist, but was just dismantled awaiting restoration/reconstruction. Parts may have been lying under hedges and workbenches ready for the big push to a race-car again! Now, there is another car in a VERY similar position to the Custaxie.....the Dauphine Corvette. Here is a car that is racing around today with none of the controversy that surrounds the Custaxie. As far as I know, only the rear axle and it's components came from the original Dauphine....everything else is new, yet no one is jumping up and down proclaiming it to be a fraud. Like the CustaxieII the 'new' Dauphine has been rebuilt by the builder of the original, and has also been 'improved' along the way....a 350 Chev instead of the original 327, Richmond gearbox in place of the Muncie, and a new/old body. So it seems that it is only when these things come on the market that problems start to arise, but I dont see why they should. For instance, if I was going to buy the Renault Dauphine, and fork out a lot of money to do so, I would do my homework very very carefully on the cars history, and there are plenty of anoraks out there that could put me straight. I watched both these cars competing at Teretonga early this year and it was great to see them. Frankly I dont care that they were replicas, just listening to them howl round the track, and imagining the skill of the drivers to keep the bloody things off the grass was worth it..... and the skill of the builders to get these things up and running. I watched the drivers get out of the 'cockpit' after each race and by the look of them they had been through the mill!!! They certainly add a bit of colour to the classic racing scene, and when a few more come on stream......Morrari, Doyle/Dickie Anglia, and others, will make exciting watching, and may even bring back SMILES to the watching public.......wouldn't that be great!
With you AMCO. Wonder if it was another car from way back, or more to the point some one else who fronted up with the custaxie, would there be all this carry on. As mentioned above the "axe head and handle" theory exists in a hell of alot of classics out there, but at the end of the day they are classics/history (old or new) and people are peddling them around for fun, Opps sorry, no such thing as "fun" we are all so serious. Lets all relax, sit back, take a big breath and think why we are really there. Lets not be so precious about it all.
It was great to see Robbie back peddling and either way regardless of how you think of him, he can drive. (and putt)
In regards to "parts" that is a big field. What are they and are they still alright or would they need "upgrade". Be awesome to own some of that historic car. A guy in Matamata has the crumpled front guard and weslake heads off Moffats mustang, along with numerous other bits from famous cars, so there is a bit of history in that place. (know it is not him as don't even mention Chev within a mile of him)
Food for thought ,I have a whole shed full of bits that came from all sorts of Motor racing history over the last 40 or 50 years ,so what could I recreate from them it makes the mind boggle ,all I need is the time and money ,which I don't have ,but then if someone came along with the money ,how many cans of worms are sitting there ,that could be opened
And getting back to the selling thing. None of these 'old heaps of junk' is likely to be sold off shore, not even to Oz, so I think that the history that they have now will always be with them. Is not like a Ferrari or even a F5000 which could end up somewhere other than NZ, and be misrepresented. I wonder if they had log books in their day, cant remember, but if they did, and they were still around ,could muddy the waters a bit. Yes, there was a bit of 'theatre licence' in the ad for the Custaxie, but the buyer would have come from NZ and would be smart enough to check it out. I mean all us EXPERTS knew about it. NZ is only a little place and word soon gets around. And Bob, you would never stoop so low as to create fake history......you have a reputation to uphold, and once that is gone, your the one thats history, not the car.
Bob, I have some thing you can hide some of your bits in. Santa deliver a nice little Twin-cam I have been a good boy. If I do the dishes can i have some new wheels. And do the lawns for some tyres. Bob I have the time just the other is missing at moment.
Rod I'm struggling just to finish getting the one I have going ,I keep getting these inspirations ,but then reality kicks in,oh yes and my past is catching up with me on another thing I used to do,now I am being hammered to do some more of that stuff as well,I seem to be achieving less and the evenings are getting shorter
Stick with the car Bob, the other thing can wait (drinking with your mates, racing seats and getting lost in paddocks etc.)
Attachment 4769Is this relevant to the main thread?
The main thread is....The Race Replica Debate. Here we have a picture of the original Custaxie, with the question.....'Is this relevant to the main thread? Is this a trick question? If not, perhaps Oldfart could expand.
OK, thanks for that O.F. We do tend to do a bit of lateral thinking in these posts, and I am probably one of the worst offenders....just letting our thoughts drift along which ever way the wind blows. Not such a bad thing....amazing what comes out of the woodwork. Woops, here I go again!!!!!!
Front doesn't look right..not 'dropped' enough...Also, maybe it's just me , but the distance between the front wheel arch and the door looks a couple of inches longer
......and the #50 is in the wrong place. Maybe, but a blind man on a galloping horse wouldn't notice the difference. AND, there will never be the real thing to park alongside to compare....will there. It's pretty damn close with the time-frame between the two builds, considering the work necessary, and only memories and photos to go on. I doubt that Kriletitch and Co had any plans.....L.A.R.....'looks about right', and the fact that the new front is now fibre-glass rather than ply-wood, chicken-wire and papier-mache [or what ever it was] and the colours aren't quite the same, I still think they have done pretty well. Instead of having a nice round of golf, Robbie was slaving away getting this thing built, and he would not have been thinking that a lot of 'anoraks' would be coming out of the woodwork to measure up his new creation!!!..... Robbie himself, leaning on the car in black cap, and my old mate Jim Short with his bum parked on the front guard. Woops, hope I havent strayed too far from the main thread!!
Gee AMCO , that's opening up another can of worms...If you make a Replica of an iconic car, is a she'll be right. measure it by the thumb approach good enough in the recreation process..hmmmm
Well, as I said, I doubt that the team had plans for the #1 build, and if there is nothing left to copy, then the reconstruction will be from photos, memories and 'common sense'. Do you not think that comparing the two photos of the car, #1 and #2, that they are as close as humanely possible. Yes there are slight differences to the inside and instruments, but they haven't shortened it, or widened it, or put mags on it ,though I think there was some talk of doing that. I dont quite know why I am continuing to defend this car, as it seems that everyone else on here, with about one exception, is not at all supportive of my stand. I have nothing whatever to gain from all this, except that having done a few restorations on old sports cars, I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into these things. I know what you are going to say.......why didn't he get it EXACTLY right from the start. I suggest to you, that if anyone else had attempted the rebuild, they wouldn't have got it nearly so correct, and unless you are over 60, you were not there to see it performing in 1967. So I rest my case.I shall just enjoy watching the car on the track, thats if it is still allowed to run, and will stick to my knitting!!!!!
You stick with it Amco. A point worth considering is. Robbie and friends built the first car. Robbie raced it. No one else raced it or owned it as a race car. Robbie and friends built (rebuilt) this car. Robbie raced it.
Who really cares if the front guard is 30ml longer (easy fix, just extend/cut wheel arch a fraction) It is THE CUSTAXIE in what form you want to accept it or not accept it. There is no other Custaxie built or raced by Robbie Francevic, wether it was 1967 or 2009/2010.
Agree it is not the "original" but closer than some "originals" i have noticed. Remember my garandma saying "don't throw stones in glasshouse's"
Now Amco, talking about "original" there is one in Mr Short
Thanks for that Rod.....I appreciate your comments more than you can imagine. And Grandmas are a great source of wisdom aren't they. As for Jim, yep, when he signed up for the forum I thought we were going to get chapter and verse on the race car scene. Unfortunately, as I said somewhere in yards and yarns, he didn't spend any more years at high school than were necessary or legal, so his literary skills are not great, BUT if someone could sit down with him with a tape recorder and get him talking, there would be some gems of insight and information to ponder on. On second thoughts Rod, are you telling me to 'stick with my knitting' or 'stick to my guns' ????????
one from left outfield Silcock/millen jag, this is not the car that saved i from oblivian, out of hastings some years ago. wheels eng/g/box etc etc. i still have some parts from millen car does this mean i can now build the Millen car. Mr Johns has done a superb job in retaining a part of nz history. there is quite a story on this car after it was brought from A Dick and co,up and until i sold the car to Clive Gott. will post some photos at later date regards ged
Ged, what wheels were on it (the Jaguar) when you had it, do you have photos. As in here lies another little story.
Amco, Stick to your guns fella, and regards Mr Short, as mentioned in other thread, spent many an afternoon in a certain mower and bicycle shop chatting. He has some amazing history and knowledge, and as you mentioned he is not bad for someone whos 3 years in third form were his best. A top guy.
rod the wheels were off one of the trans am mustangs i was told. they were magnesium and caused me a little grief. but i had agood welder [barry morgan] who repaired them, we had no trouble after we addresed the problem of hairline cracks ged
mmm-hi mr amco72,i know the old car very well,i am not robbie at all.i do have some parts from the old car,the good bits were removed after they had stopped racing it . the parts they removed were the 427 and the gearbox and radiator ,and put it up for sale you are wrong about the rear half of the custaxie i did not offer the parts to them at all. in what way am i winding you up i could build up a car that would look like the old car,there would be a lot of car builders in nz that could make up a car to look like the old car .just take a look in nz petrolhead ,i did talk to robbie at manfeild a number of years back that i was thinking of building a new car.OK IF WE LOOK AT THE BRUCE MCLAREN TRUST, one told me also at manfeild that i would not be allowed to build one, and would not be allowed to race it.the trust has a 1968 m8a restoration project in the hands of a duncan fox i understand. i understand a small piece of original fibreglass was put into the body moulds of the new car, and the rear bulkhead is repaired and most of the chassis and all the alloy skins are new. so if you go by there rules, all someone has to have is a small part from the old custaxie. in 1993 at pukekohe i gave robbie a small part from the first custaxie, so what do we call the new car--a replica--recreation--rebuild--restoration you tell me so we all know what to do. all most forgot--i understand the 427 went into a hotrod ,and the t10 gearbox was rebuilt and put into a muscle car for racing,so you could say there are a lot of parts out there from the old car.
Ged, the wheels were off Mr Faheys original Mustang and I was talking to Clive not long after he got the car. I believe Mr Chapman got them back for the Mustang when he had it in restoration mode.
I would appreciate any photos you have of the car as i sepnt a few hours on it way back then when Steve had it.
I am fortunate enough to have seen the Custaxie a few times over an extended time lapse. Each time on the track it has been Mr Francevic, and as below on the road someone else, so if another appears let it be, but they are not the ORIGINAL driver/owner (of either so far seen).
Heres another for you, The ORIGINAL Custaxie I believe when Robbie sold it was on the North Shore of Auckland and driven around by a hot rod fella for awhile with a flathead ford in it. It then graduated to a 272.I beleive it remand in hot rod circles for along time. Now let the researching begin. I think i know the said owner or someone who does.
I find this whole discussion re the Custaxie really interesting, and having posted a photo which I took myself of the original, obviously I saw it race in period.
When I saw the new one somthing did not click. It just seemed less intimidating or something. Perhaps it was just too good/shiney? It certainly went like a rocket.
I am left wondering why the current owners don't get the paperwork sorted. Gerald has done it for his car, and intimated it was not as bad as he thought it might be. My memories of Robbie were that a finger in the air to the authorities was not unusual, and most of us at the time knew that, might not like it, but understood his position. Is the non-finalisation another example?
In a way it's sad, as the "authorities" are being painted into a corner. If they let this car/owner get away with it the floodgates open. If they don't then they are the "big bad boys" for not letting the car run in some eyes.
I am sure most would like to see such cars running, but if my memory is OK then most of them were very rough. My first memory of the McBegg was the amount of baling twine. (1960s cable ties?)
Stuff the paperwork, lets just build the cars & race them, the 'Paperwork' just creates another area for the revenue gatherers to skim money from, thats all..wont make the car go any better!! After reading Geralds posts about the build of his car it would appear that one of the more stressful times was 'waiting' for the paperwork on his car, the rest of the build was enjoyable..
Jac Mac we sing from the same sheet. I was not the biggest supporter of all the paper work (revenue generating) years ago and still feel there is too much. As you say, build them and run them, good for everyone.
I think it is great that "A" Custaxie, "A' Chev Dauphine" Etc appeared a couple of years ago, as younger fellas than us got a chance to see what it was like when there dads were starting to grow wiskers and were only interested in birds on Friday night to fill in time until the weekend.
Back in 1967 the Custaxie was the Bee's knees..I remember heading off to the car show at the Addington Showgrounds with my school mates with one purpose in mind,,,,Get as close to the beast as possible and marvel at this homegrown Mustang Killer.. One thing that has intrigued me however, is that I can't recall it as being refered to as 'The Custaxie'...We all called it "The Monster". Was I too young back then to remember the details correctly , or was the term Custaxie something that came along after the 67 season?
My comment regarding the accuracy of the rebuild was not meant as a slight against Robbie or the Guys who helped, I am absolutely delighted to see it in the flesh again....it was more of a generalized comment, can you Imagine the Tifosi if the 156 recreation appeared with a different nose shape for example,
On a final note, I would love to see the Custaxie, Dauphine - Chev and other Allcomers barreling down the front straight at the International meeting at Philip Island,,they would cause quite a stir I'm sure...
Bry3500, they sure do look and sound great, the ground moves and a different thunder to todays roar/screams. But any V8 sounds pretty good to me. And nothing wrong with a neat little 4 Ford singing either.
CUSTAXI was made up from CUSTomline & galAXIe, the two major parts of the car, Body & engine source
Bry3500.......you are correct in the name of the 'Custaxie'. It was christened 'the Monster' by Kriletitch and team, and some times referred to as 'colour me gone'....the logo across the boot-lid. Was only a bit later that the name 'Custaxie' came into use, not sure exactly when, as it was 'the Monster' thru 1967........Source..1967 NZ Motoracing, where incidentally there are lots of pictures of it and the Doyle/Dickie Anglia and others. Also a good interior shot for the anoraks. And Oldfart is right concerning it's 'presentation'....rough would be an apt description....mind you it had done a few HARD racing miles by then and was showing it. Most of those machines...Doyle/Dickie Anglia etc, were scruffy to say the least, but that is how it was......no beautiful restorations/reconstructions/rehashes then.....they came 45 years down the track.
would somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun gedwould somebody plse build a replicar of robbies fairlane big block and all. Like you say jac lets build listen and enjoy.Ibelive the young guys today love the look and sound. so lets pass on the skills and the enthusim that we have. i have heard Garry Rodgers make a comment that the fans like the historic cars almost more than the supercars. Its about having fun ged