George - this is mouthwatering. Congrats on kicking this off and the very best for a successful new class - we are looking forward to seeing you running in September.
George - this is mouthwatering. Congrats on kicking this off and the very best for a successful new class - we are looking forward to seeing you running in September.
Great read George......got me all fizzy again. Now why would Gladdis not wanna do handicap? Sorry mate I just this minute stumbled on this thread. If we were to run in the same configuration as the 80's....well you may as well give me the trophy now I guess! LOL....Couple of things mate....Good on you for doing this.....(you should pop over to my shop for a chat and I may be of assistance to you). Why dont you run two scratch races and one handicap race...AS WE DID BACK THEN. This will promote a bit of racecraft with the back markers. There was a FIA ruling regarding speed differences..."they must be within 110 per cent fastest to slowest." The Jaguar XJS was never a Sports Sedan it was a Group A car. However, you would concider all 80s type cars on its own merit I guess. Rex Rattenbury would probably bring his Chevette back from Perth if asked....(P76 donk) My old Green car will be coming back to NZ fully restored to how I had it sometime in the near future. Oh and fancy forgetting Jim! And there were a couple of Mini's racing in the old SSA. Clive Gott....he had ex Silcock ex Millen Jag and in my view and only my view...bastardised the car by welding the rear doors up etc.As already mentioned the car is no more... Which quite frankly doesnt surprise me....Clives driving style is reminisent to Peter Meadows....F**ked. (I remember going to a Party in the back seat of that Jaguar..best sound ever....crazy fast road car as I remember blasting up and down Queen Street in the original Custaxie with a side valve V8 motor in it...even more crazy. I will see if I can track down any of the SSA paperwork down that was in my possession as the Secretary that may or may not be of help towards rules etc. Now as for being 30 years older...as for me I am fizzing and race ready after doing more laps than most at most of the race meeting from Taupo to HD and Puke and currently leading the Championship Points for Safety Car wins! (now I am going to find me a car....wanna come Jim?) See you soon George...(come over to the Shore). and good luck ... Kind regards. Tony Rutherford. Oh PS was talking to Graham Parks and he will be stuffing a V8 into something very soon as he tires of the red tape surrounding his current "class"......(which is Time Trialing around HD and Puke...............ho hum booooorrring!)
Now look what you have started George - the future sounds bright and people are eager to join in.
Off topic, but Graeme Park is now running in the ERC Series. The Red Tape regarding Classic Trials is a bit unfair, as that is NOT a race group as such. It is aimed at classic cars driven at the owner's pace, or a stepping stone before racing proper.
Interesting comment about FIA handicaps being within 110%, fastest to slowest. That is just about what our two groups are currently, but if we combined them, it would be nearer 120% - but they used to run OK like that when we had the split by Sports/GT and Saloons. Splitting them by speed group eliminates faster cars starting from pit lane.
If just one driver objects to running in a handicap race, isn't the answer rather obvious?
YES............
Hi John....nah mate that was Robbie Kerr in the ex DJR car. I purchased the Pinepac Mustang...(the better of the two!) It was in Bruce and Wayne Pinepac Orangey yellow colour. And it was restored by Kenneth Hopper for yet another ex Pat Kiwi Brett Maddren from yet another Timber backgound whom now resides on the Gold Coast. The car was recently sold I believe for a meagre Au$175,000. It was by all accounts one of the nicest race cars I have driven and I had the pleasure of giving it it's first race win at a meeting at Baypark. Thank John....I will get picts to you in your glorious XA Coupe when I can grab a few hours of sorting through about 50,000 pictures! Regards, Tony R
Tony- are you seriously starting to get an itch to be a loose cannon and go racing again? Or did that video clip I sent really get you going for more hands-on action.
Have you got the meagre Aus$175,000 to get the Mustang back - would be a sound investment ,better than property.
Barry Algie was telling me today that you are an excellent peddler, and it would be great to see you doing it again
John, Barry is right, but then Barry talks highly of lots of people. The only itch Tony has had lately was after a good night on the turps.
As for fizzing, remember Ruppie, it is a safety car doing 80kph so you would look tidy and as for mileage, you do more getting to and from the tracks (at a lot more pace). Seriously, be good to get back and play. Now Rex 'the rat' thats an interesting thought. He still has the lap record for Bay Park in Rally Car.
Tony I just got Biscuits phone number so will be intouch with him and maybe we can all get our heads together for an hour when I come on down that way.
Hey there Rod, yes call in or ph me and we can meet at Big bad Tonys if that's better. Hah ha I see you still remember the nick name from baypark. That weekend at Baypark there was that lippy bloody commentator who read out, and George sherry in the mustang, hey hes a drink or shrewsbury, hes a biscuit too, then later John Leafmoth in the Monaro. Must admit, to this day I still call John -- Leafmoth (and get an earful each time!!) Will you have the Escort ready in time for the first round in September, bloodyhell, its gonna be just like the old days!!!
George, heres one from the Graeme Bennett Collection of old NZ racing pics up currently uploading on another thread. Thought you might get a kick out of this!
Attachment 18015
Hi George, give me a bell sometime as I have a fair bit of info on most of the cars you are looking for, especially old OSCA cars.
Good luck with the class I know it will take up plenty of hours. It has been mentioned by others and some are against but what we found worked for our 40th anniversary meeting was to simply let any car that had ever raced at least one OSCA event in but with a committee of 3 to decide on eligibilty. The only thin we were looking for was an obvious performance upgrade that didnt exost back in its day such as putting a 750hp 14 degree crate engine in when said car only ran approx 500hp 23degree head engine.
As long as it looks like the car from a certain period let it in or as you are rightly doing give them a chance then see where things need to be tidied up.
Handicap racing will be advantageous as at the end of the day you are putting on a show for the spectators and its those spectators who will keep the class wanted by car clubs by coming to the tracks...just like all sport sedan classes over the years (possibly not OSCA) the guy that brings the fastest car wins and the rest soon leave the car in the shed...or start another class. Puke's straight aint as quick anymore.
Was probably harder for us down here but after nearly 2 years of planning we only ended up with 7 cars I think from a supposedly 17 confirmed or at least thought they would make it. Keep on them and keep them keen!!!
Cheers Munty
This is for you Evan, your dad at Puke in the Capri. This is still to my mind one of the best looking of all the NZ modified sedans. A great looking car and always beautifully presented. This is from the Graeme Bennett Collection of pics I'm currently uploading.
Attachment 18039
Thanks Steve, Dad was always one for making sure the car looked good over its evolution.
Steve, you reckon George may get a kick out of that photo, he is not alone. 2 Classics, one mean and lean the other mean and kean.
Thats a good photo, George in the shade but still glowing
I reckon with owning that car, the glow would never go
Here is a history lesson about the MK2 Jaguar that Dave Silcock outlines earlier in this forum and sorry to George Sheweiry that his forum has been hijacked in this way.
The Jaguar was bought as a written off car and rebuilt into a race car by Silcock in the ‘70’s. It was then owned by Don McMillan of Metropolitan Cranes with Silcock and Peter Sundberg racing it.
It was subsequently sold to Steve Millen who after initially racing it as bought, modified it to be more competitive, changed the colour and was very successful with it, it really launched his racing career.
In 1973 Don Peddie bought the Jaguar, did little with it but Grant Aitken did have a race in it. In 1978 it was sold to Stephen Thomson, then in ’79 sold to Gwyn Edicot-Davies with Clive Gott then buying it from him where Gott substantially modified it and did run in Sports Sedans even once managing a win, this was around 1981 with a period article stating “He does not expect to be able to match the V8 engined Ford Capri of Wayne Huxford or 4.2 litre Toyota Starlet of Trevor Crowe” Of interest in the same article Gott said “He has extensively modified it by fitting a light fibreglass front end and cutting out the floor in the boot. He also welded up the rear doors and moved the motor back several centimetres to aid weight distribution” it was then sold to Bruce Orr in 1984 who sold it to Terry Paaske in 1986 whom I purchased it from in the late ‘80’s.
The way I preferred the look of the Jaguar was as originally built by Silcock and this is the way I decided to restore it and not that Silcock mentions it but we got him to rebuild all the mechanical and some fabrication work on the body!
For Silcock to carry out his work I had to purchase another MK2 shell as Gott had chopped so much out of the original and it had now succumbed to rust, all that could be saved was cut out of the little that was left of the ‘original’ shell which I made no secret of was then crushed. I kept the Fibre glass doors and boot, cut out a lot of the ‘original’ fabricating work that was left and kept all the mechanicals including suspension’ with later on Silcock selling the 4.2 engine from it. I run a period correct 3.8 originally built by Silcock then rebuilt by Dave Mills.
There was nothing forward of the front windscreen as that had been modified to a space frame set up. At this point I must say that I don’t blame Gott for doing all of this as it was his car and the work he did do was well done BUT did ruin a ‘classic’ race car.
So as you can see the Jaguar has gone through several ‘modifications over its life and whilst it can’t be said its original ( as that changed once the first modifications were done) the lineage is there and the car I have had for over 20 years, being the longest owner and I have raced it more than any of the previous owners is authentic if not original.
Some of the points that Silcock brings up “wrong wheels” not only are they the correct American racing wheels that came off a Mustang, this Jaguar uniquely has a Ford stud pattern (not ever modified in all it’s years of racing), what he means is I didn’t use the wider Millen wheels which would have meant fitting the Escort flares which at the time would have been frowned upon by the Classic race authorities. I did however keep a set of the period correct flares even though the rear ones had been further modified by Gott.
The colour is absolutely correct as Silcock knows as we had the original painter let us know what the Colour was off ( A Corvette) .
Silcock is again wrong “ The car I built no longer exists”. Through the history as explained above and especially as he rebuilt the Jaguar!
Silcock is correct that in the short period he raced the Jaguar it didn’t have a louvered bonnet but then I ‘m sure if he could have he would have as this alone went a long way to fixing the overheating the Jaguar had suffered in its early race history. And it adds to the beauty!
The front wheel arches are the correct shape as run early in it’s life.
As the Jaguar ran most of its life with a roll cage it has to have a roll cage, the seats also have to meet a standard, the originals didn’t ( I have kept what maybe the ‘originals’ ) and the steering wheel is a period Motolita donated to me by the late Geoff Manning and his lovely wife, Barbara.
The gearbox as modified by Silcock was a constant disaster, the one in it now has the same foward gears as available in it’s time but doesn’t break!! It’s Australian!
The Wilwood brakes as fitted by Silcock are noted in the Certificate of Description and are a cheaper, safer allowable option.
If anyone has bothered to get this far go and look up a court case in the UK in 1990 Hubbard Vs Middlebridge Scmitar Ltd www.gomog.com/articles/N01 Judgement where you will read about Old Number One Bentley.
It’s not dissimilar to the Jaguar with stating “ "It is important to realize that racing cars are invariably changed during their careers, to incorporate improvements and modifications, and because of hard use and accidents” The Bentley even had a change of Chassis just like the Jaguar.
Summary
Thus, in summary, the expression Old Number One is the famous name in history of vintage Bentley racing car. It is justifiably applied to the car which in a succession of forms raced at Le Mans between 1929 and 1932 when it crashed. It is the "authentic" "Old Number One".
My Jaguar CP 9788 is THE Authentic car, original no but the lineage is there.
Silcock should be proud that a part of history that he initially made has been preserved, I wasn’t the one that hacked it about!
I am not going to debate with Silcock or anyone on this matter in this forum I just wanted to give a brief outline of the Jaguar’s history.
Regards
Mike John
I can see the discussion regarding the Jaguar owned by Mike John as above could quickly escalate, and get out of control, so I'm going to say right now I don't want any further discussion posted on The Roaring Season about the originality of this car.
Race cars, by their very nature, in order to remain competitive, evolve. They suffer accident damage, and later in life, when they're no longer competitive and their values plummet, they often suffer neglect. So its extremely rare any old race car remains completely intact, retaining every piece it was fitted with in period. The amount of originality a car retains varies from car to car, and every person has their own opinion on what makes a car original, or otherwise. There is probably no right or wrong answer, just different opinions, and by arguing the fact on here will achieve nothing other than cause argument for the sake of causing argument. And at the end of it all, nothing will be achieved other than everyone disagreeing.
Hi George- Can we have an update on the track and date of the proposed first meeting.I want to be there in Sept, and prefer it didnt clash with HMC Ice breaker. Also this post needs a bump back to the top again.
I am pleased to announce confirmation of the induction of the Historic Sports Sedans into the Auckland Car Clubs Summer Series. This has given us the platform to launch this new class and bring out all those neat old race cars that were the only class that the race fans would stand up for!! The support and enthusiasm for HSS has been overwhelming and I am told long overdue. The ACC has now confirmed the dates for the summer series that will be 3 rounds at Puke and 3 rounds at Hampton downs with the first round being at HD 8th september 2013 through to round six Puke 30th March 2014. Each meeting will be 1 day events with 6 laps practice in the morning followed by 3 x 6 lap races through the day. Entry fees will be around the $200.00 mark. There will be an emphasis on driving standards and no biffing or bashing will be tolerated in this class as these cars are now valuable collectable historic race cars and are part of NZs racing heritage. Along with a good number of restored original cars not seen by the public for many years there will be some invited cars that are not necessarily to the proposed rules of this new class but are similar in looks that will also be competing on the day to help us bolster the numbers and show the ACC that their acceptance of our fledgling class is well founded. I have been told that if we have the numbers there is a good chance that we could be included in the HD festival of speed in january. There will be a meeting held at the ACC club rooms 10am the following Saturday (14th September) to finalise a set of rules/ guidelines for this new class. People interested in coming to this need to read the valuable comments and input from would be competitors and fans on the blog on, The Roaring Season, in General discusion headed "New Class Historic Sports Sedans" as the talk on there pretty much sums up the general direction the club should follow. I have put a lot of time and effort into getting this going so I would like from you names of potential competitors with cars that would fit this class as we need numbers to make this a success, so please email me with any info. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz . There will be an article about the class in Petrolhead magazine and hopefully Classic Car magazine. Also I have been invited by the Aucland Car club to have the Sidchrome mustang as one of their display cars at the CRC Speedshow so I will have a blurb sheet available for the public on the new class with the dates for the races as well. I would like to extend a big thankyou to all those who have plegged to attend the first meeting as this will be the start that gives us some credability and show that we mean buisness!!
Competitors who have given their word to be at the first round so far are:
George Sheweiry 69 Boss Mustang Ford366 Gurney Weslake
Graham Addis 72 Charger Chev366 Moran
Bob Homewood 72 Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Barry Algie 69 Monaro Chev302 Bartz
Gordon Burr 74 Alfetta Chev 302 Milidon
71 Cologne Capri Ford 4500 GAA Cosworth
Paul McCarthy 69 Zakspeed Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Bruce Thompson 69 Coppins Firebird Chev302 Traco
Tony Antonovich 69 Marwood Z28 Camaro Chev350
Roger Davis 77 Torana Chev350
Adrian Dobbe 69 W Grey Viva Holden 202
Dennis Running 77 Wills RX8 Chev366
Glenn Gordon Datsun 1200 SSS
Tony Boyden 69 Coppins Camaro 350
David Thompson 69 Jim & Ross Stone Escort
John Telford Mossman Mazda Chev
Clive Sheweiry 85 DJR 302 replica
Competitors yet to confirm:
Angus Fogg Amco Mini
Mal Clark Rover V8 3500
Skidmark Parsons Triumph TR8
Niel Tolich 64 Segedin Mustang
John Learmonth 77 Chev Monza 350
Roger Townshend Capri RS2600
other possibles;
Graham Barnes 69 Bulivant Capri Chev
Brian Roycroft Datsun 1200 coupe
Kelvin Brae 69 Escort
Tony Mann Victor chev
Gary Wilkinson Zakspeed grp5 Escort
John Abbott 69 Nazer Escort
Rayden Smith Richards TC Escort
race dates;
08-09-13 HD
06-10-13 Puke
10-11-13 HD
08-12-13 Puke
02-03-14 HD
30-03-14 Puke
How mouth watering is the above. Well done George.
George - great to confirm the dates. So the next date to meet at the Auckland Car Club is Saturday 6 July to formalize the rules / guidelines?
As it said the Saturday after the 1st race meet that will make it 14th September. So John This is a meeting you definitely need to attend, after all this class has been created for cars like your own and wont it be fantastic to see the Bunce /Thomson Monaro caning around the track amongst all the other awesome machinery!! I will try to slip in behind you and learn the quick way around the track if I can keep up that is!! I personally am hoping to see the Fahey FVA Escort out there as I never saw it run with Foohey driving it especially lifting that front wheel off the track hard in a corner---the sound of the engine through those twin side suckers---YEAH BABY. I have had a quick check up on your monaro blog and its good to see you are hard into that car and doing it right. I cant wait for this class to get under way especially if all my old mates like Tony Rutherford, Rod Grimwood, Poppa Smurf Windelburn and his boys, John leafmoth, Barry Search, Graham Parkes, Ralf Mossman, Harold Wooten, Bruce Mannon, Gary Deepthroat, Clive Gott, Wayne Huxford and yes maybe if he could wangle his medical the mighty Jim Short as I virtually class them as family because every Baypark Easter, xmas and labour weekend as well as the Puke rounds I spent with them instead of my own extended family not to mention all those wonderful and hugely competitive South Island boys who would come up for the North South clash--- man they were great days and yet here we are about to live all that again Christ can things get any better????
How cool is this about time i say,John Telford mossmans mazda is that the mazda rx7 you are talking about,if so i saw this car having a run at Manfeild not that long ago, the work that has gone into this car. He is running a Nascar Dodge engine in it now and the sound it makes as it goes by,and was told he was only using 1/4 of the power it had on this day,also it has only put in about 70 laps all up.Boy when he puts the wood into it its going to take a good car to stay with him,also i would like to hear some more on Adrian Dobbe and his holden 202 viva.---2.3.14 HD.30.3.14 HD.
Thanks for pointing out the wrong track on 30-03-13 should read Pukekohe so I have edited it. And John Telford didn't mention he had a Late model nascar engine in it---- why would you do that??? oh well guess I will have to call him again and check on that. Bugger--- might be one off that list. Thanks for the heads up Custaxie50
By the way Custaxie50 Adrian Dobbe has the ex Warwick Grey Viva (HB) its silver in colour as last run by Warwick and in fact I think the car may have been a Brabham Torana. It had some pretty trick kit in it like a Detroit locker and a special HDT close ratio gearbox and I believe the engine was also a Holden racing special XU1 type. It was pretty bloody quick!!
You are a champ George. Some mouthwatering cars in that line up. I would also like to see and hear the FVA Escort in action again along with the Cologne Capri that is being worked on in Christchurch.
Proof reading never was my strong point!!! I have altered it. Thanks oldfart
Hey kiwi285 now that is one car of fooheys that I did hear, that high pitched sound of the Cosworth GAA at full noise and was there at the flying farewell at puke his last race when he got on the grass on the outside coming down the front straight and got airborne over a pile of earth that strangely had been left in the middle of the grass strip. Quite lucky it didn't turn out worse than that really.
George-I will be at the 8 Sept meeting- helping Barry and Bruce- also the following Saturday.
And BTW have not been around Puke since 1994.
Well oldfart my cuzzy Peter B just may be drafted in to run the Comet and perhaps my daughter Brittany in the Metro GpA Falcon and young George in the Tranzam Camaro and Alan Boyle in the Falcon Cobra as that is all I have going at the moment If by 3 days to go before the event there isn't the required 10 entries cause people who have given their word that they will run don't front then I will put those cars in as I have given my word to the car club and no one is going to f--- me over. So have no fear I have put my name to this class and the first meeting. IT WILL HAPPEN. Sorry to be staunch about it but I have seen the scenario before. But when you have got an arsenal of 28 cars in your garage then you can back up what you've opened your gob to. But hey ya never know they might just all front up. Like they say, when the flag drops the bullshit stops!!!!
That's Great John, Barry certainly needs some of your awesome enthusiasm to get his arse moving, lets face it there is only 10 weeks to go till the first race. He needs to get cracking Now!!
That bloody guest pilot Pete B! He doesn't need all those unfinished projects, just show up and drive :)
If you are pushed for entries would you invite my XA Coupe there to fill the grid to get this first meeting up and running as the car is ready to go. ?
John Mckechnie, you are a prince among princes!! you bet your arse you can come join in the fun. I would really appreciate that. I tell you with offers like this from people who realise the importance of this first meeting and how we have to impress the ACC and show them we are here to stay, we cant loose. I am very humbled by your offer in the midst of the huge task you have on hand with the Monaro. I will save you a spot in the pits by me. Well done John!!!
The difference between women and cars- the Monaro wont get jealous because I am out enjoying myself with the Falcon.