Les Parkinson sold this white XJS to Peter Koeford who hardly used it at all over 15 years.
Peter told me a man in the SI was buying it.
Would not have thought that it had done a lot of racing
Les Parkinson sold this white XJS to Peter Koeford who hardly used it at all over 15 years.
Peter told me a man in the SI was buying it.
Would not have thought that it had done a lot of racing
Correct John, a 'man' from Christchurch has bought it, but it has been entrusted to Angus for the restoration.
Are you suggesting that the bodywork shouldn't be floppy because it has not done much racing? You should know that the number of racing miles a car has, or has not done, does not equate to a perfect body.......ie very little racing equals a perfect body!!!!!!! My own experience at HD bears that out.......I had 'raced' for less than 200 meters, and I ended up with a car with less than a perfect body!
Am I making myself clear here???
Also I think the roll-frame [theres that word again] was very under engineered and needed bringing up to new specifications. Maybe it got away with it in the old days, and we don't need to go into that argument again after being exhaustively 'discussed' in another thread.
My God, the arguments are starting already and the new class hasn't even got off the ground........
When is a Muscle Car NOT a Muscle Car ?
When is a Sports Sedan NOT a Sports Sedan ?
Is the thinking here that if a car competed in a sports sedan class 30 years ago, then it IS a sports sedan.
Sounds as though defining exactly WHAT a sports sedan is, is going to be harder than defining what a Muscle car is!
And Jim you bring up an interesting point........30 years on these drivers are obviously 30 years older......and slower......and stiffer, in all the wrong parts! Are they going to be up to the job of piloting these wild and woolly machines? And don't tell me they are just going to do demo laps behind a safety car!!.......Yeh right.
Also Jim, you must have had to sell a lot of mowers and cycles to pay for your share in the Porsche........unless of course your shop markup was exorbitant!!!!!
Amco without knowing ,I would bet the Mini cost a lot more than I paid, I mean 5 owners into one car and I know you find it strange but I enjoyed every lap ,first out last in for practise regardless as to where I finished in the race,even on my own ,the exhaust sound at 8000 ,not seen that often would make your hair stand up on end ,only 2.8 twin plug, webers 260 BHP no match for the V8s but off the line and under brakes just leave them for dead at BP,only once in five years did it get 4 new tyres at the same time,mrs brown now
I think half the trouble with the XJS is that it probably hasn't been stripped down as far as it is now since it was built. When everything was out of it, you could actually lift the front of the body several centimeters without the body from the screen backwards moving!!!!
Superficially the car looked ok but it was infact seriously fragile.
The roll frame that is in it now ties everything together very nicely.
So am I right in saying that this new class is for cars that actually raced as sports sedans during the time frame suggested? In other words I cant build a new one to the specifications and join the group as I can in HMC.
Now here is where we can see a whole lot of grief amongst you lot that think a car with "history' is more desirable than a new built old car. The ex Clive Gott car does not exsist, that was supposedly destroyed by Mike John, sent to the crusher I belive. The car he now insists is the ex Millen car does not exsist either, wrong wheels, no Mk1 escort flares, wrong color etc. The car I built and raced no longer exsist either,if you consider the car as I saw it at Highland Park at Easter. The wheels and body are the wrong color, it has a louvered bonnet, the front wheel arches are the wrong shape, the seats and steering wheel are incorrect and it has a roll cage in it. Not to mention the Japanese 5 speed gearbox and the Willwood brakes. Not a glimmer of nostalgia did I feel as I walked by it. So how is this going to fit into this new class? And this is only a car I know a bit about, what about all the other cars on the list?
You are quite correct about those XJS's. The front end of them is as weak as any thing I have seen. Compared to the stucture in a Mk2 one would have to say the engineering is irresonsible!! Mind you in my opinion they are the worst car Jaguar ever made except for the V12 E type.
So what, nor are the drivers the same size, or look the same, thats what was good about the Sports Sedan boy's (and Girls, now there are the pretty ones) they where like their machinery, all different until it was pack up time and the tent became centre of attraction.
I have not read past this tongue in cheek comment yet (I hope it was Mr John boy as the SS boys stick together).
Go for it Biscuit, got my support and will be intouch with you as off right now to meet in Auckland and spend weekend with Mr Willis (birthday) Ralphy and some others from south island and all over the place. So there will be discussion.
Could be more welding and fabricating coming up.
Correct Crunch and a load more that ended up half framed etc.
Custaxie, remember you are dealing with Sports Sedan boys, who were always kind of frowned on because of the different way they did things and i can remember some days when there was grids with cars that were built just about any way possible (some good, some not so good) Think if George keeps like old school and there is no points, flowers, or hay bales presented, all can go and run their car.
I will be intouch with George as was on Original committee with SS for awhile along with others who are still around (and have cars in their sheds)
As I said in last couple of posts, we ran everything and anything, like even an Escort with a Pacific wing on it and then you zip into pits take wing off change rear springs and put on other boot with little spoiler and out you go in clubmans, clever buggers those SS boy's
Please don't turn this into a 'how can you run that, it wasn't like that thread' Sports Sedans catered for a wide variety of cars and people. Jag yes remember it, Jum in his Modified VW followed it a few times (nice black with red stripes paint), plastic Corvettes, Minis, Vivas (even one crazy one with V8) all types, in fact if it ran, had 4 wheels, you got a run. I hope that is what George is looking at.
Dave-just to make sure we are on the same page here. Jim said the ex Millen car was not a sports saloon.
I simply said that I understood that Clive Gott raced it in this class when he set the engine back, welded up the back doors and had a removable front., this was 80s
All this happened before the body was destroyed. I also know the body was destroyed.
Do you know the classes Clive ran it in before the body was destroyed?
I do agree with your view.
Good question ,I saw Clive run it at Taccoc to start then not sure after, The Custaxie I never saw it run ,did Robie not race in the USA???and bring some Yank tank back to race???
John, no offence taken, Jim stated that the ex Millen car was not a sports saloon and I agree as it never raced in that class when it was in the form as Millen raced it. It simply was a different car. Clive ran it for a time in classic racing in the form he purchased it in from whoever and then did to it as you have described and ran it in sports saloons. So if it, the Clive Gott car, was to be raced in this new class a new one would have to be built. I don't have a problem with that as long as it is the same and everybody knows it. Are we on the same page?
I think there are a few older 'club' cars that could be built into 'period' Sports Sedans and why not? All you would need is a process whereby an owner would notify their intentions on how they would modify the car and the committee could let them know if the car would be eligible in that form. I reckon that with a few sensible rules that don't allow 'new'-builds to overshadow the cars we're trying to coax out of retirement, this could be a hugely successful class.
Wonder if we could run the Amco Mini in a Sports Sedan class.....was ex BNSW car after all !!!!!!!!!!!!
Did Sports Sedans morph into that strange class.....trans-am lites? They seemed to be neither your arse nor your elbow.
Rod does not want this thread turning into a 'you cant run that' sort thread. Yet surely it is better that this all gets thrashed out here, and with all the opinions on here, some of, if not all of the misconceptions will be sorted out, before the boys get out their welding torches!!
Why is it so hard to understand ,the muscle cars are very fussy about what runs in their eyes,so any Sports Sedan that ran as such is in ,if it did not run as a Sports Sedan its out , .Amco the Minis were very strong when the S.Sedans were running and for one I think it would be great to see them{the minis}running around during the lunch break for example
What are you saying Jim.....that a Mini MIGHT beat a Sports Sedan, and if so you would only like to see them running around in the lunch break.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So they'll start with a small group of cars that can never get any bigger? I suppose that's okay if the intention is for a couple of novelty races a year.
Paul if you are so keen I am shure there will some for sale, why do want to change historey or are you mates of Chris Finnlyson ??
Amco you know there is nothing beter than enjoying a good meal ,and to be able to see and hear all those Minis buzzing around at the same time,as to the speed of the Mini ,cant say I know but Roger Freeth worked out at 8000Rpm in 5th was 168 mph,,dont think I would enjoy that speed in a Mini then again perhaps I would
Would the restored ex Art McKee IMSA Monza be OK for this Series in 1977 spec?
If there are no rules yet, why would this not be allowed?
This is a well known South Island car
All getting a bit ahead of things here, George suggested that the initial meeting at the ACC & who actually fronts up with intent to compete/take part in the series will largely decide the format for the series.
If the handicapping is spot on & Gerald or Angus take part in the Mini I would love to hear the comments from within the Mini as they glance in the mirror about 200 meters from the finish line, the view should be about 4 rows of wall to wall thunder....
Great list. If only we could somehow combine it with the Group U Aussie Sports Sedans.
Sorry guys, went out to Puke today (free pass from my bro, Clive at boc gases for food and bevvys in boc hospitality tent), so haven't checked this but big sorry to Jim who was always there in the big black Porsche but while I was writing the list got interrupted and stuffed up!! Sorry to anyone else who is not on there but you will be warmly welcomed to the meeting. Wow what fantastic discussion about what car is eligible and what isn't and that is just the sort of thing we need to hear to be able to form this class. With more thought on the matter my own idea would be along the lines of cars that want to compete would need to submit photos, drawings, magazine articles etc of the car from the period they were wanting it to represent, and from people I have talked to this seems to be the consensus. From a lot of other classes I have run in it has always annoyed me that I had to run my cars to a set of rules that was either just thrust upon us or rules that were made by people who had plenty to say but never ever fronted to race. So another idea for the formation of the class is to do voting by points like 2 points per vote from people who have already raced and 1 point from the people who have never raced before. Also to protect all the members and their valuable cars a 3 knocks and your out or 1 race stand down , whatever. but I think you see where I am coming from. Of course the wider the inclusion of categories the more likely it will be to have a good field. The minimum vehicles for a stand alone race for the ACC is 10 or we get combined with another suitable class on that day which I think is fair enough on the car clubs side of things. Anyway great discussions Guys , keep up the good work. Cheers, George.
[ I forgive you George I thought you were stiil upset from me jumping you at the start,or did I dream that bit?? I love the line Rules thrust upon us by those that never front,,how true,, I am all excited and started training today ,made the letterbox and back in one go ,, bring on to,,morrow QUOTE=George Sheweiry;27323]Sorry guys, went out to Puke today (free pass from my bro, Clive at boc gases for food and bevvys in boc hospitality tent), so haven't checked this but big sorry to Jim who was always there in the big black Porsche but while I was writing the list got interrupted and stuffed up!! Sorry to anyone else who is not on there but you will be warmly welcomed to the meeting. Wow what fantastic discussion about what car is eligible and what isn't and that is just the sort of thing we need to hear to be able to form this class. With more thought on the matter my own idea would be along the lines of cars that want to compete would need to submit photos, drawings, magazine articles etc of the car from the period they were wanting it to represent, and from people I have talked to this seems to be the consensus. From a lot of other classes I have run in it has always annoyed me that I had to run my cars to a set of rules that was either just thrust upon us or rules that were made by people who had plenty to say but never ever fronted to race. So another idea for the formation of the class is to do voting by points like 2 points per vote from people who have already raced and 1 point from the people who have never raced before. Also to protect all the members and their valuable cars a 3 knocks and your out or 1 race stand down , whatever. but I think you see where I am coming from. Of course the wider the inclusion of categories the more likely it will be to have a good field. The minimum vehicles for a stand alone race for the ACC is 10 or we get combined with another suitable class on that day which I think is fair enough on the car clubs side of things. Anyway great discussions Guys , keep up the good work. Cheers, George.[/QUOTE]
OK, before you start insulting people, calling their cars a "bag of bolts", try doing your homework first. The car aussiemonza is referring to is the Grant King Chevy Monza built in the US to race in IMSA. It competed alongside the early DeKon Monza's, including DeKon 1001, which was eventually purchased by Red Dawson and shipped to New Zealand. The King Monza was purchased in 1976 by reigning Castrol GTX champion Art McKee to race in the 1977 New Zealand Saloon Car Championship.
It raced alongside the Sidchrome Mustang, Nazer Victor, Bill Leckie Capri, Dawson Monza, PDL Mustang II etc, and is an important piece of NZ motorsport history.
McKee sold the car following the 1977 season to an Australian buyer, and it raced in Australian Sports Sedan events for the next 20 - 25 years, before being purchased by Rowan (aussiemonza) who has been in the process of restoring it back to its Art McKee guise as it raced in NZ. Its a significant car with great Sports Sedan history. Nuff said.
Attachment 17709
And it would be huge to see this magic car racing here again.
You have a good fan base here in Kiwiland , Rowan,
My personal plea would be for the cars to run as they were in period. No modern modifications, but enjoy what they were...a piece of history that is as exciting to watch today as it was way back then when I was a spotty faced teenage flag marshall at Manfield.
Im not insulting people at all Steve,calling their cars a bag of bolts its just a saying i think most would know that.over the years a lot of drivers have said this to me about their cars.I dont think anyone on here is going to get to upset about it.Look at it this way 45 years ago thats all some had, and put their bag of bolts together to make a race car.
Now that is one sharp looking car. We have another one in NZ, imported by Fogg Motorsport last year, that is how shall we say, a bit rougher than that one. I am not sure of its history, if indeed it has any, but if the owner can drag himself away from fixing dodgy Jags and crashed Minis, we might see it out and about one day.
The term by the way is......'a bucket of bolts', and being kind, that is how I would describe it at this point in time. When I first saw it I thought it was a burnt out wreck that had been salvaged from a Motorway pile up, but many hours and $$$$$$$$ in the future could look as good as the photo.
Gerald- any history you can tell us about on this car with potential?