Lotus 7 Alfa Romeo

[Lotus7Alfa]

Well, after more than 7 years without one, I will soon have another Lotus/Caterham Seven :) I am in the process of importing this http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3840062.htm Alfa Romeo-powered Lotus 7 from the UK. I'm waiting for the history file to be sent over but, from scanned documents I've been sent, it seems the car was owned and raced in New Zealand by Wyndham Gray of Amberley between 1974 and 2002 when it was sold back to the UK. Does anyone on here know anything about the car?
Thanks!

[jim short]

He ran 2nd to the Paton at Ohakia in sports cars up to 1500 in 1982-3 that was the big reunion also raced against him at Wigram 95?/

[Dave Silcock]

I think I did some engine mods to this car back in the day, or did Windy just ask me for quote and not get round to it? I do remember the car though.

[jim short]

painted grey with red gards I think .only had small mirror on the Paton

[Lotus7Alfa]

Well, it's still red with (unpolished) ally panelling. Barry Leitch is going to look at it and sort out compliance etc when it arrives - and he remembers racing against it :) I've written to Wyndham - I think he's still at the address on the car's old NZ motorsport registration cards!

[jim short]

Yes was allie not grey ,nearly 20 yrs ago I last looked at it didnt know it was a Alfa ,,What size??

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, fantastic story!

[jim short]

Ohakea 1982 was the 1st big reunion puke followed in 83? {Ardmore} here are some times of cars racing against Wynhan Gray Lotus 7 Gray 1.36.34 G Brayshaw buckler climax 1.36.26 Hallett Buckler MG 1.39.55 D Childs Buckler elva 1.37.39 Wilson { Morgan}1.48.43 in other races the times were different examp. Sports and racing W Rogers Brabham 1.32.17 Disher Studybaker 1.46 {later killed in this car on the road}C Waite Cooper imp1.45 Fred Courtney Jackson Jag.1.46 GRAY Lot 7 1.35.81 Brayshaw 1.35.07Sutcliffe Buckler 1.43.02 D Hulme cooper 1.29 I Archibald xk120 1.36.83 G Pierce A Healey1.45.81 Becket 365B 1.38.98Then a couple of car NOT pre 65 who stole the headlines!! B Bellis Turbo 911 1.20.86 Parkinson V12 E 1.25 also Dennis Ganley Lotus 71.35.53 B Cook XK120 1.40 Bob Gibbons {D type} in a AustinCooper1.42.97over thirty years ago now

[Lotus7Alfa]

Yes was allie not grey ,nearly 20 yrs ago I last looked at it didnt know it was a Alfa ,,What size??
I'm not certain yet until I get the history file but I believe it's a 1968cc Berlina engine.

[jim short]

and to think he ran in under 1500..may be a 1300??

[Lotus7Alfa]

Ohakea 1982 was the 1st big reunion puke followed in 83? {Ardmore} here are some times of cars racing against Wynhan Gray Lotus 7 Gray 1.36.34 G Brayshaw buckler climax 1.36.26 Hallett Buckler MG 1.39.55 D Childs Buckler elva 1.37.39 Wilson { Morgan}1.48.43 in other races the times were different examp. Sports and racing W Rogers Brabham 1.32.17 Disher Studybaker 1.46 {later killed in this car on the road}C Waite Cooper imp1.45 Fred Courtney Jackson Jag.1.46 GRAY Lot 7 1.35.81 Brayshaw 1.35.07Sutcliffe Buckler 1.43.02 D Hulme cooper 1.29 I Archibald xk120 1.36.83 G Pierce A Healey1.45.81 Becket 365B 1.38.98Then a couple of car NOT pre 65 who stole the headlines!! B Bellis Turbo 911 1.20.86 Parkinson V12 E 1.25 also Dennis Ganley Lotus 71.35.53 B Cook XK120 1.40 Bob Gibbons {D type} in a AustinCooper1.42.97over thirty years ago now

Thanks for that, it looks as though Wyndham was quite a handy driver!

[Lotus7Alfa]

and to think he ran in under 1500..may be a 1300??

That's quite possible - the only information I have so far is from the book "Skidding the Tyres in Classic Style" which apparently says the engine was a 1968cc engine from a 1968 Berlina. The Berlina for that year appears to have a 1779cc engine and the piece in the book also quotes a different registration mark to the one visible in the photos in the advertisement. I will obviously have to wait and see what the history file says ;)

[jim short]

My Paton only had 80bhp max .was lighter and better shape for that Ohakea long straight plus I remember telling myself to slow down on the gravel parts.I have a 1750 berlina it has over 100 lplus hp ?? the Hallett Buckler ran a MG A mtr I think not sure what size A little storey about Wyndam I never met him and we ran at Ohakea in 1982 ,the next time was at the final Wigram 1995,in the super line waiting for our meal and what a meal those Country Gents put on with the dixee{thank jammie} jass band he intraduced himself to me and I replyed didnt you come 2nd to me at Ohakea ,well he was so pleased any one would remember that he shouted a btl bubly!!He didnt know I had waited for over 25 yrs to race and that was my first serious start ,The same day John? Milligan in Dave Craws Singer gazelle on slicks ran into my mk2 and its not true I actually had dust in my eyes

[Kwaussie]

and to think he ran in under 1500..may be a 1300??
Am sure that it was a three bearing 1340cc. Don't recall it ever with an Alfa in NZ.

[David McKinney]

Before the car under discussion, didn't he race a 7 replica? Maybe that was the 1340 one

[Kwaussie]

I belived that the Grey car was a great little car that was not a replica.
In the Wings & Wheels Classic 1985 #101 W. Grey, Amberley, 1968 Lotus 7 red/silver
and at Queenstown 1989, # 121 B. Leitch, Invercargill, 1986 Series lll replica blue/silver Alfa Romeo 1779cc

[Lotus7Alfa]

Am sure that it was a three bearing 1340cc. Don't recall it ever with an Alfa in NZ.

I think the "Skidding the Tyres" book entry says car started out with a Ford engine but, until I get the history file, I don't know which engine or when the Alfa unit was installed.

[Kwaussie]

Great that you are getting the history file for your Lotus7 Alfa.
I am sure that you will have a lot of fun with a well known car.

[Lotus7Alfa]

Great that you are getting the history file for your Lotus7 Alfa.
I am sure that you will have a lot of fun with a well known car.

Yes, I certainly hope so!
I've got the history file now, which raises as many questions as it answers :confused: The chassis number shows the car is an early Caterham, which is straightforward enough. It was registered in New Zealand as a 1974 Lotus Super 7 in 1975 (with 300 miles on the clock), with a note that it was previously registered in the UK. It had a 1498cc engine in 1977 and 1983 but a 1968cc engine (presumably the Alfa one) in 1994. There's no clue in the history as to exactly when, or why, the engine was changed, or which engine it was. There are various racing programmes (including Pukekohe March 1983 - when it is shown as 1498cc - and Wigram February 1994 - when it is shown as 1962cc) included in the file, all of which show it as a 1968 Lotus (Super) 7. So it looks as though I have a bit of research to do:D On the plus side, I have addresses for the previous owners - as long as they haven't moved! It also looks as though the most recent UK owner has spent a lot of money on it, including replacing the Alfa engine with another one and putting a "proper" bulge in the bonnet. Plenty of work to do while the car makes its way to me :)

[David McKinney]

So getting back to my Post 15, what did he race in the late '60s?

[Lotus7Alfa]

Just heard that the car is on a ship to New Zealand and should arrive in Lyttleton at the beginning of November. I have no further information on its history yet though.

[Lotus7Alfa]

Caterham Cars have confirmed that the the sales invoice for the car, a Super Seven Series III, is dated May 1, 1974. They also told me that the car was supplied to a customer in Yorkshire, England, in component form, less engine and gearbox, for the price of £1042.96 and that the customer was about to move to New Zealand. This confirms the information in the "Skidding the Tyres" book.

[Lotus7Alfa]

I've had a reply to my letter to Wyndham Gray. It appears that, sadly, he died about 8 years ago.

[Lotus7Alfa]

I think I did some engine mods to this car back in the day, or did Windy just ask me for quote and not get round to it? I do remember the car though.

I think you must have done as the history file has a copy of the advertisement from when Wyndham sold the car and it says "Powered by a 2 litre Alfa rebuilt by Dave Silcock, 100% reliable and unburstable so far!" :)

[Lotus7Alfa]

Well, the car is now in my garage :) I drove it back from Invercargill last Friday afternoon in the rain with no roof or side-curtains and didn't get as wet as I expected. It's great to drive, the engine's characteristics really suit me - you can drive it around like a Nanna car at low revs in a high gear or you can boot it and make it really fly. The previous owner in the UK seems to have spent most of the time he had it re-building it, I've got bills in the history file for nearly as much as I paid for it! I don't think it's done many miles since it went back to the UK - the records that came with it show it's done about 1,000 miles since 2008 and the teething troubles that have shown up so far are, I think, as a result of that. I've already got a list of things to do - including getting the weather equipment to fit (no fasteners on the scuttle for the tonneau, no fasteners for the side-curtains and a hood that's shrunk from lack of use), no charge from the (new in 2003) alternator and water temperature that barely gets off the bottom stop. No doubt there will be more as I drive it and it gets used to being driven after its long repose. I also want to get on with tracking down more of its history, (one of the Gore Vintage Car Club members, Alec McLennan remembers the car and Wyndham, so that's a start!) - plenty to keep me busy when I'm not driving it ;)

1409514096

[Lotus7Alfa]

Well, the car is away having a new alternator fitted. The other teething troubles (non-working water temperature gauge and electric cooling fan, weather equipment fitting) will have to wait until the New Year, I want to drive it while the weather is (relatively) good :)

[Lotus7Alfa]

Alternator replaced (with a modern Japanese) so all good now, just need some sunshine and we'll be out driving :)

[SPman]

So - is it a 2000 engine? I had a Berlina 2000 and recall it had a lusty little engine! - about 135bhp from memory.

[Lotus7Alfa]

So - is it a 2000 engine? I had a Berlina 2000 and recall it had a lusty little engine! - about 135bhp from memory.

It's a 1971 GTV engine of 1962cc on twin Dellortos and (according to the history) an EB Spares 11 cam so should have (or had when the engine was built!) at least the bhp you quote. It certainly goes well when you put your foot down :)

[jim short]

Very interesting and not trying to prove how smart I am,but how is it the Paton with max. of 80 bhp {Lyn Rogers statment}laped at Ohakea in 82 in 1.34.27 Wyndam in 1.36.34,total times 6.23.65 against6.31.13 .Is it the shape thats my thought.but that meeting the Paton had a full screen,its next time out had only single wrapround fitted and picked up 10mph at Puke perhaps suspension the Paton was a copy of Crowthers Lotus 11,then again on the Puke club track Dennis Ganley Lotus 7 with a 1600 mtr was faster but not on the GP track,,Ohakea certanly had the longest straight in NZ,nice to see the car again

[Lotus7Alfa]

Very interesting and not trying to prove how smart I am,but how is it the Paton with max. of 80 bhp {Lyn Rogers statment}laped at Ohakea in 82 in 1.34.27 Wyndam in 1.36.34,total times 6.23.65 against6.31.13 .Is it the shape thats my thought.but that meeting the Paton had a full screen,its next time out had only single wrapround fitted and picked up 10mph at Puke perhaps suspension the Paton was a copy of Crowthers Lotus 11,then again on the Puke club track Dennis Ganley Lotus 7 with a 1600 mtr was faster but not on the GP track,,Ohakea certanly had the longest straight in NZ,nice to see the car again

I should think you're spot on with the shape - the Lotus 7 shape is as aerodynamic as a brick :(

Wikipedia
The Eleven was designed by Colin Chapman and fitted with a sleek body designed by aerodynamicist Frank Costin.
Despite the wide variety of engines installed, the car was primarily designed to compete in the 1100 cc class where it was one of the most successful cars during the mid- to late-1950s. In 1956, An Eleven, modified by Costin with a bubble canopy over the cockpit was driven by Stirling Moss to a class world record of 143 mph (230 km/h) for a lap at Monza. Several class victories at Le Mans and Sebring followed, and the Eleven became Lotus' most successful race car design. A 750cc version won the Index of Performance at Le Mans in 1957.

Lotus Eleven Register website (http://lotuseleven.org)
1956: Although generally powered by only an 1,100cc Climax engine, in capable hands the Eleven could run rings around most other racing cars. Such was the combined effect of good horsepower, low weight, unmatched aerodynamics, powerful brakes and exemplary roadholding, that the Eleven had no rival in the 1,100cc class, and was nearly as dominant in the 1,500cc class. It was competitive in the up-to-2-liter class, and on the right course could best any sports car, regardless of engine size.

1957: Victories at LeMans: Jay Chamberlain and Mac Fraser first in the 1,100cc class, with other Elevens in 2nd and 4th, and a super lightweight 750cc Eleven driven by Cliff Allison and Keith Hall winning the Index of Performance.
1958 and on: The highlight of 1958 had to be the sweep the Elevens made in their class at Sebring. There the Weiss/ Tallaksen car finished an incredible fourth overall -- and still from only 1,100cc. Gradually however the rapid evolution of racing caught up with the Eleven, and while it was still competitive, Lotus prepared a successor. In 1959 the Lotus 17appeared, lower and lighter, but even it failed to match the handling and overall speed of the Eleven.

[jim short]

Well I could then ask why is the Lotus 18 so quick when it has a good driver?is it the gards and lights??

[Lotus7Alfa]

Well I could then ask why is the Lotus 18 so quick when it has a good driver?is it the gards and lights??

Certainly the Lotus 7 guards (particularly the flared ones as opposed to the cycle wings) add a fair bit of wind resistance and the headlights will add a bit more. I should have added - "and, of course, the driver has a big influence on how fast the car is" :)

In the case of the Lotus 18 - handling (and a bigger engine) would make a difference, the mid-engine layout helping. Wikipedia again:

The car was a classic Chapman design, being extremely light and simple; the body was made up of lightweight panels bolted to heavily-triangulated tube frame (almost spaceframe) chassis. Thus the car was rigid and strong, maintaining the 16's forward weight distribution despite the engine moving behind the driver.

It was powered initially by a 2,494.93 cc Coventry Climax (3.70 x 3.54 in) four cylinder engine inherited from the Lotus 16 which produced 239 hp (178 kW) at 6,750 rpm from a weight of only 290 lbs (132 kg) and had a wide torque range. In order to capitalize on this weight advantage, Chapman designed a light, sleek machine only 28 inches (71 cm) high (excluding windscreen) and weighing just 980 lbs (440 kg). To help facilitate this, the driver was placed in a semi-reclining position, pioneered about a decade before by Gustav Baumm of NSU.

The Lotus 18 had remarkably good handling with a unique suspension system which drastically reduced weight transfer and body roll in cornering. Shortly, the Lotus 18 was proving to be faster than any car Grand Prix racing had ever seen, eclipsing even the legendary Auto Unions and being widely copied. It was also built as a two-seat sports-racer called the Lotus 19 or Monte Carlo.

[jim short]

Yes in 91 at the SFOS the 18 had a great race with the most suprising man I have seen Stan Peterson ,smoked all the time ,his hands shook real bad trying to light the smokes,suprised he could climb into his Cooper,but man he was quick ,I actually asked him how long he had had parkinson as we all thought this was the case ,.Hell what do you mean ? its a damaged nerve problem,so many stories about him ,one when he went to England to pick up the BRM he had bought,but the joke he told me at the picnik day at Lake Hays? when the Ranch Rover was rolled over in a flat feild ,he asked whats the difference between a hedghog and a 4 wheel drive upmarket car?? The hedgehog has the Pricks on the outside!!

[Russ Cunningham]

Very interesting and not trying to prove how smart I am,but how is it the Paton with max. of 80 bhp {Lyn Rogers statment}laped at Ohakea in 82 in 1.34.27 Wyndam in 1.36.34,total times 6.23.65 against6.31.13 .Is it the shape thats my thought.but that meeting the Paton had a full screen,its next time out had only single wrapround fitted and picked up 10mph at Puke perhaps suspension the Paton was a copy of Crowthers Lotus 11,then again on the Puke club track Dennis Ganley Lotus 7 with a 1600 mtr was faster but not on the GP track,,Ohakea certanly had the longest straight in NZ,nice to see the car again

It just goes to prove what a fantastic driver you are, Jum.