Lost Race Cars

[markec]

Cooper T53
"F2-8-60" A new car built late in 1960 but using the identity of one of the 1960 works F1 cars. Tommy Atkins (UK) 1961 for Bruce McLaren in Intercontinental - Bruce McLaren (UK) 1961 for 1962 New Zealand and Australian Internationals - David McKay (Australia) 1962 for Australian Gold Star - Bill Thomason (New Zealand) 1963 for New Zealand Gold Star - Feo Stanton and Ian Rorison (NZ) 1964 or 1965 and rebuilt as Rorstan Sports with 2.7-litre Climax ... Danie Lupp (NZ) 1970 ... Bob Moore (NZ) with 4.5-litre Oldsmobile and then 2-litre Vauxhall Victor ... Kerry Pennell (NZ) - Ted Giles (NZ) by late 1980's: retained 2001 still in Rorstan Sports specification. Ted Giles (NZ) 2001
Copied out of"oldracecars.com"

[GD66]

Incredible. Thanks a bunch !

[Andy G]

630363046305
yeah from what I have found is that its been a club, rally, lotus t/c, osca I am getting some pictures from Australia of the car in 1977 when one of the owners Ian Wilkins (Ashburton) picked the car up from Dunedin. Apparently in his gold Capri with the trailer on the back and had to back down a very steep street. Ians brother in law who I got hold of thinks it had a v8 in it when Ian got the car and believed it is a factory T/C but we will see...Will let you Know it looks bloody terrible at the moment in matt black with lovely pink decals! I have striped some paint and its every colour, white roof and metalic blue sides,there is red and black and white and that was just the back l/h guard and the front l/h flare.
Andy Giles.


These photos are of the late Ian Wilkins with the First Harrington/metropolitan cranes escort we have. The photo of the car when it is black is as per when he brought the car without the Weatheral Jewellers decals and engineless. At this stage I believe Ian and Terry Butt his mechanic (backyard as he told me!) had put in the original t/c engine that they drove the Wellington to buy. Then the car was painted red I believe it first had a 12a rotary in it then a 13b pp. trophies are for 2nd in osca and 2nd in b class. The car was then stripped and the running gear was put into a rwd 323 and the shell was sold after a while under some trees. more pics to come. Andy.

[Andy G]

Ross Cameron in the F85 Escort in 1975? at Timaru. Car behind is a Cologne Capri with 302 engine ex Australia driver was John Dymond , Ross tells me the rear flares had just been put on by Robin Officer.

[pallmall]

Cooper T53
"F2-8-60" A new car built late in 1960 but using the identity of one of the 1960 works F1 cars. Tommy Atkins (UK) 1961 for Bruce McLaren in Intercontinental - Bruce McLaren (UK) 1961 for 1962 New Zealand and Australian Internationals - David McKay (Australia) 1962 for Australian Gold Star - Bill Thomason (New Zealand) 1963 for New Zealand Gold Star - Feo Stanton and Ian Rorison (NZ) 1964 or 1965 and rebuilt as Rorstan Sports with 2.7-litre Climax ... Danie Lupp (NZ) 1970 ... Bob Moore (NZ) with 4.5-litre Oldsmobile and then 2-litre Vauxhall Victor ... Kerry Pennell (NZ) - Ted Giles (NZ) by late 1980's: retained 2001 still in Rorstan Sports specification. Ted Giles (NZ) 2001
Copied out of"oldracecars.com"

There is a bit missing in the above. 1963 the car was driven by Chris Amon, he bought it back from Aussie and had the damage from David McKay's 'toilet' crash repaired. Bill Thomasen had it in 1964, painted red, it must have gone to Feo Stanton after this.

[Andy G]

74 or 75 Ross Cameron in the Escort running the F85 for the first time. Wigram Olds F85,Muncie m22, Holden torana LSD Rear 13" WheelsSorry for some reason the picture kept on turning upside down!6315

[Andy G]

RE : Rorstan Sports, I will get Ted to log in and talk on it but I think you are right Pallmall Im sure it cleanned out a toilet block in aus.....

[David McKinney]

Cooper T53
"F2-8-60" A new car built late in 1960 but using the identity of one of the 1960 works F1 cars. Tommy Atkins (UK) 1961 for Bruce McLaren in Intercontinental - Bruce McLaren (UK) 1961 for 1962 New Zealand and Australian Internationals - David McKay (Australia) 1962 for Australian Gold Star - Bill Thomason (New Zealand) 1963 for New Zealand Gold Star - Feo Stanton and Ian Rorison (NZ) 1964 or 1965 and rebuilt as Rorstan Sports with 2.7-litre Climax ... Danie Lupp (NZ) 1970 ... Bob Moore (NZ) with 4.5-litre Oldsmobile and then 2-litre Vauxhall Victor ... Kerry Pennell (NZ) - Ted Giles (NZ) by late 1980's: retained 2001 still in Rorstan Sports specification. Ted Giles (NZ) 2001
Copied out of"oldracecars.com"
This is fairly old info - in fact I think I may have supplied it to ORC about 20 years ago:)
I wouldn't have missed the Amon connection

Since it was written, it appears that there were three (at least) F2-8-60s:
1. The 1960 works car
2. The 1961 Atkins Intercontinental (and occasional F1) car
3. The 1962 NZ car. David McKay inspected this car before it raced in NZ, and says Bruce told him it was brand new

[Howard Wood]

David,
That is a fine example of the convoluted process needed to trace the history of specific cars and the apparent disregard for Chassis IDs by constructors of the period.
Can you expand on the reasons or series of events which led to these 3 cars carrying the same #no?

[Oldfart]

David,
.
Can you expand on the reasons or series of events which led to these 3 cars carrying the same #no?

What I was told on a visit to Coopers went along the lines "We could not afford more than 3 carnets at a time. I could tell what chassis plate was at a race meeting, but could not be have any confidence of what it was attached to"

[David McKinney]

David,
That is a fine example of the convoluted process needed to trace the history of specific cars and the apparent disregard for Chassis IDs by constructors of the period.
Can you expand on the reasons or series of events which led to these 3 cars carrying the same #no?
From memory, it goes something like this...
Contemporary reports quoted one of the 1960 works cars as F2-8-60
In 1961 someone (possibly hillclimber Arthur Owen) ran this car
The same year Atkins ran a car numbered F2-8-60 in Europe for Bruce (and JB). Harry Pearce, who built Atkins's cars at the time, insists it was a new car - "Atkins never bought a second-hand Cooper in his life"
The Atkins car Bruce raced in NZ and Australia in early 1962 was, as explained above, another brand new F2-8-60

And to echo what OF said, a friend once asked John Cooper if it was true the factory ran only three lowline F1 cars (T53) in 1960. His answer was, "Well, we only had three chassis numbers...."

At which point the smartest of us give up:)

[Dave Silcock]

Max collided with me at the left turn out of the sweeper at Puke. I was driving the Jaguar not the Escort ex Harrington. I used to enjoy that corner as the Jag could hop a wheel over the kerb and you would hardly notice it. You can imagine my surprise when i heard a twin cam to my left, There was Max attempting an inside pass. I had no need to stop, and I don't think Max did either so the damage can't have been terminal. On another matter ever wondered why Escorts ended up on single seater wheels and with good twin cam Fords in them? Those beautiful little cars where bastardised into Formula Fords. Shame Eh!
Cheers Dave

[Andy G]

Do you have any photos Dave? Specs of the escort when you raced it? Are they brabham wheels on the car in the picture Steve posted?
Regards Andy Giles

[Russ Cunningham]

Max collided with me at the left turn out of the sweeper at Puke. I was driving the Jaguar not the Escort ex Harrington. I used to enjoy that corner as the Jag could hop a wheel over the kerb and you would hardly notice it. You can imagine my surprise when i heard a twin cam to my left, There was Max attempting an inside pass. I had no need to stop, and I don't think Max did either so the damage can't have been terminal. On another matter ever wondered why Escorts ended up on single seater wheels and with good twin cam Fords in them? Those beautiful little cars where bastardised into Formula Fords. Shame Eh!
Cheers Dave

Hi Dave,

Am I missing something?

Escorts into FF's?

[Steve Holmes]

I think he was referring to F2 cars that were converted to FFs, with their engines and wheels ending up in/on Escort saloon cars?

[Dave Silcock]

Sorry to be so long in replying to this but I am still in business and I could spend all my time on here.I don't have any photos that would be of interest. Yes it did have Brabham wheels. It was pretty much your usual Twin cam Escort, front suspension modded to some English spec, Broadspeed or Williment, Bullet box,Wats linkage four trailing arms on the rear. It had a pretty good engine but can't recall whose it was. It was by far the worst handling racing car I have ever driven as purchased. The Wats linkage pushed the tyres into the flares, it had so much roll steer in the front it was scary at speed and had roll under steer in the rear. This last caused an off at Bay Park that split the right front wheel into two,outer rim gone. I doubt if it could have been more geometrically incorrect. When that was corrected it was as good as any. Lot of work though compared to the Jaguar, had to pinch Steve Horne off the Hallidays to help me but that's another story.
Cheers Dave.

[Steve Holmes]

Boy, thats great info Dave. Did you race it during the 1971/72 season, or just the second half of the 1970/71 season?

Out of interest, was the Escort raced by Peter Sundberg during the 1971/72 season the Fahey car?

[Rod Grimwood]

Kevin McNamara ran also.

[Lurker]

Kevin McNamara ran also.

Kevin McNamara ran the ex Platt ex Stoneman Escort

[David McKinney]

Out of interest, was the Escort raced by Peter Sundberg during the 1971/72 season the Fahey car?
No, it was the ex-Silcock:)

[seaqnmac27]

No, it was the ex-Silcock:)

So is Sundberg the missing link between Dave Silcock and Bob Homewood? Or is there someone else?

[Dave Silcock]

Peter Sundberg was an apprentice I had with me at Marave .He followed me to Metropolitan Cranes. I am hopeless at dates so I can't recall the timing bit this is how it shook out. When Don McMillan (who is not related, Bob) bought the Escort, Peter drove the Jaguar till it was sold then the ex Harrington car after Don and I parted company basically because of a difference of opinion about the preparation of the Escort. Don then bought the ex Fahey car for Peter to drive mostly to piss me off I think as I lusted after that car with a passion. A few years ago I built as close a copy as I could of the Fahey car for Gray Mathias. It is for sale in the Uk for in excess of a hundred thousand pounds! I am listed in the ad as an ex works Ford engineer, I must of forgotten about that part of my life.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks Dave (and David M). The reason I'd asked about Sundberg racing the ex Fahey car during 1971/72 was because there is a photo of him at Pukekohe in an Escort in Motorman mag fitted with very wide Minilite wheels, but Dave Silcock said in an earlier posting the Harrington car had Brabham wheels. The car in Motorman also has a single wiper, which the Fahey car had, whereas the Harrington car had two wipers.

I always thought the Fahey car went straight to Rod Collingwood, but Collingwood was racing his Mini during the 1971/72 season. I know Fahey raced it in late 1971, before moving over full time to his Mustang which PDL had just bought.

[Andy G]

Dave, any pictures at all would be great if possible. The only Pics we have of the car are the ones on this thread and a couple of others from Roos Cameron.
We have a Set of Brabham wheels to put on the car but we are trying to work out what engine to use? Olds v8 or the lotus T/C, We have 75% of the parts to build a real good T/C but the fire wall in the car have been moved back so if we did go the T/C road then a new firewall would need to be stitched in. Any thoughts?
Regards Andy.

[Steve Holmes]

Here is what Bob Homewood emailed me on the subject of the McMillan Escorts. Bob has been having problems posting images on here lately so I'll just post up everything he has sent me. I was confused over a photo I saw of Peter Sundberg at Pukekohe in early 1972, in an Escort fitted with Minilites. Also, I wondered if Fahey had sold his car with or without engine, and what engine it was sold with, as my understanding was it had an FVA when first raced (1969/70 season), then a larger FVC when Fahey won the NZ championship with it. I wasn't sure if this was the same engine used both seasons with some different internals, or two different engines. Here is Bobs reply:

Right first the ex Harrington Blue car ,that went when Harrington sold it as I have said to Don McMillan's ownership ,Don had both Dave Silcock and Peter Sundberg drive it for him,the shell of this car and assorted parts ,which included three Brabham wheels then came to me late 1972,I rebuilt and modified the front and rear suspension ,putting a XU1 Holden diff into the rear of it ,I had Croydon Thompson cast me up a set of his alloy wheels for the rear ,so it then had Brabhams on the front ,Thompsons on the rear .Croydon was going to make me another pair of his wheels for the front ,but when the first fuel crises came along and motor racing activities got curtailed the sponsor I had ,pulled out and I was a bit pissed off with all this so I sold the project to Grant Aitken ,taking his Mini as part of the deal,I never raced the Mini I on sold it more or less straight away to some one Merv Neil knew,this was around the start of the 1973 Season

The second Don McMillan car which I will call the "Spears Escort " as the Lotus Twin Cam engines were built and supplied by them for that season ,I was involved in building that car for Don when I returned from living in the South Island mid 1972 ,we built that from a new bodyshell and if you look at photos of it you will see it was one of the later round headlight bodyshells ,it was painted yellow and carried Spears signage.I worked on this car all the 72/73 summer season (at this time I was also building my own Escort the one mentioned before above and preparing and racing various XU1 Holdens ) at the end of that season the car was sold of to some one in Nelson ,(was it Dick Tout ) .I don't know what engine if any went with it,as around 1978 I brought both the motors we had used in the Escort that season from Spears and I still own them albeit they are now in bits in my collection of Lotus Twin Cam racing stuff

The Fahey car ,yes it was FVA at the very start of its career ,would have used the 69.1 mm stroke crank,they were a engine you had rev,then I believe the crank got changed to the longer stroke one ,to give it 1860cc ,and more torque .I believe that would have been the configuration it was in when Rod Collingwood brought it at the start of 72/73 season ,Collingwood sold the car at the end of the season to Don McMillan ,but Collingwood still drove the car when it went up to Malaysia ,I can't comment on what happened up there as I was not there ,but I believe they had some engine problems up there,and perhaps brought another engine from someone ,can't remember exactly on that one,its too long ago ,Ken Smith might remember maybe they got the engine from him,when the car came back to NZ ,I helped out on it for a couple of meetings,later in the season ( 73 /74 ) the car was sold to Grant Aitken

Hope that helps answer your questions ,it might be better with the photos to tell me what cars you are looking for in particular ,then I will have a look for you
Regards
Bob


Time line for above

I think I have got this in the right context ,when I mention years remember half the racing season is in one year ,the other half in the next year



Blue "Harrington Escort ------------------------sold Don McMillan Drivers Silcock / Sundberg ---------------------- Bob Homewood ----------------Grant Aitken -----Ross Cameron
Lotus Twin Cam engine----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------F85 olds




71/ 72 72 /73 73 /74

Yellow "Spears " Escort Built from brand new body shell for Don McMillan Driver Sundberg-------------------sold to Nelson ? Dick Tout ??
72/ 73 73/74
The Lotus Twin Cam engines used in this period in the car are still with me




Fahey FVA Escort ex UK 1600----------capacity increased 1850 ----------------------Rod Collingwood --------------Sold Don McMillan driver Sundberg --------Grant Aitken
1970 ???? 72/73 73/74 74

[Steve Holmes]

Here is the Sundberg Escort at Pukekohe on April 9, 1972 with Bobs explanation:

Is this the photo you are referring to ,this is at the Elbow at the last Pukekohe meeting of 72 going on the photo's I have it would have been after the Bay Park Easter round perhaps ? I will try to find a exact date for the meeting as I am researching that period at the moment .That is the ex Harrington car that I got a couple of months later ,the Minilites would have gone on the car after one of the Brabham wheels got damaged.

6481

[Steve Holmes]

And this one, note the single wiper blade (when Harrington raced the car it had 2 wipers), which is why I had wondered if the car above might have been the Fahey car, when it had the Minilites fitted, but Bob has been able to clarify the situation for me:

Photo from the Bay Park meeting just before the other meeting at Puke I just sent you ,Brabham's at this meeting ? ,I think this is the meeting where the wheel got damaged ,I will have to work on some exact dates which might take me a day or so to pull the info out ,but the sequence of photos is definitely right ,this one and then the other one I at the Elbow I sent you before Tell me if this all makes sense Bob.

6482

[Steve Holmes]

Here is the Spear Escort Bob was talking about, this photo taken by Warwick Clayton.

6483

[seaqnmac27]

Ok, so going though the Sports Sedan entry lists posted by Malcolm/Powder, it would seem that Mr Waswo sold the ex McIntyre/PDL/Bartley Fiat 124 to a Les Bognuda. At least that is my assumption based on using the numbers that Robert Bartley, Waswo and Bognuda used all being 40. Does anyone have any pictures of this car from 1980-1984 either as the Waqswo car or Bugnuda. Also interesting to note is the changes in engine size.
I believe the car to have been an 1800 in Glenn McIntyres hands, thenits shown as "1608"cc in Robert Bartleys hand but this may be a misprint, I believe the engine size as an 1800 was 1808 or 1804, but then in Hoss Waswos hands its a 2litre, before becoming a 1.6 in Les Bognudas care.
Any more info?

[Oldfart]

All easy Fiat swaps! 1608 is a correct Fiat capacity. 124 had all of those so always possible, but what it ACTUALLY had I have no idea.

[bob homewood]

Its possible that it would have had the "Lancia based 2 litre engine in it ,I took one similar out of the Wilmac and put it in Rhubarb 3 for Ross Monk when he brought Rhubarb 3 off me,Glen McIntyre had also owned the Wilmac previously,now theres another Lost race car,the Wilmac it disappeared, after I traded it off Ross on my car and what was left of it after the engine swap,the chassis ,body etc was brought by a chap in Otahuhu

[Kirsty G]

yes and yes woody He still has the Lotus it has about 45k miles and totally original. He also still got the Rorstan Sports. Not sure how many years he has had them but Im 33 and Teds had them longer than Ive been around! In fact Ive only been for a ride in the Cortina once!

Andy, Dad bought the Rorstan in 1978 from Danie Lupp. He's the second owner of the Lotus and got that in 1967 (I think). I can remember Mum taking it to the MOT place in Green Island a couple of times in the early 80's but you were probably too little to remember :)

[Kirsty G]

Cooper T53
"F2-8-60" A new car built late in 1960 but using the identity of one of the 1960 works F1 cars. Tommy Atkins (UK) 1961 for Bruce McLaren in Intercontinental - Bruce McLaren (UK) 1961 for 1962 New Zealand and Australian Internationals - David McKay (Australia) 1962 for Australian Gold Star - Bill Thomason (New Zealand) 1963 for New Zealand Gold Star - Feo Stanton and Ian Rorison (NZ) 1964 or 1965 and rebuilt as Rorstan Sports with 2.7-litre Climax ... Danie Lupp (NZ) 1970 ... Bob Moore (NZ) with 4.5-litre Oldsmobile and then 2-litre Vauxhall Victor ... Kerry Pennell (NZ) - Ted Giles (NZ) by late 1980's: retained 2001 still in Rorstan Sports specification. Ted Giles (NZ) 2001
Copied out of"oldracecars.com"

Hi there. I'm Ted Giles' daughter / Andy's sister. The info on oldracecars.com isn't entirely correct about the Rorstan. Ted bought it in 1978 directly from Danie Lupp. I'm in the UK and stumbled upon that post on oldracecars.com earlier today and have contacted the website owner to see if it can be corrected. None of us know where the Bob Moore/Kerry Pennell connection came from orginially but this information appeared in the 'Historic Racing Cars of NZ book in the early 1990's and keeps popping up on the internet in regard to the Cooper F2-5-60 / Cooper T53 F2-8-60 cars. Ted raced the car throughout the South Island as the Rorstan Sports in club events and the Dunedin and Queenstown Road Races throughout the 80's/90's alongside a variety of Escorts (Often Mum's road cars!), Anglias etc. I have some photos which I will post when I can. If anyone has any info about the car in it's Cooper form or when it was being built, we would love to have that. regards, Kirsty Giles

[jim short]

Sorry to corect you folks but Bob Moore Whakatane had the car after Dannie as Markec stated .he had the v8 in it then the rules changed to 2 ltr.Bob did a season in it then Charlie Conway onsold it{it sat in Charleys yard for a short time}

[bob homewood]

That would be right Jim I used to talk regularly to Bob Moore when he owned it

[jim short]

Thanks Bob ,we see each other every now and then he is still a very keen motorsport man

[David McKinney]

Bob Moore raced it with Olds V8 then 2-litre Vauxhall, for the last time in 1977, IIRC. He could have sold it back to Danie Lupp in time for Ted Giles to buy it in 1978

[jim short]

Rubish there is no other word bob was and is still a good friend and David you way out

[conrod]

changing up a gear to the 1980's, does anyone know what became of this car?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/conrod1/2802018951_637879c104_z.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/conrod1/img040-1-1.jpg

A Ford Sierra/Merkur XR4Ti, it was first raced in NZ at the 1986 Wellington street race by Andy Rouse and David Oxton ( DNF - crash)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA6VqI1-MVg

and then bought by Mark Petch and raced by Dave Oxton, Francevic (Bathurst) etc. It seems to have disappeared, and MP does not remember where it went after his ownership. It was not the car that was converted into a Thundersaloon (the BP one) driven by Francevic, that car was an Eggenberger and LHD. The car above is a RHD. It may well have been converted into an RS500, or another Sports Sedan/Thundersaloon, but that is only speculation on my part.

I would really like to know its whereabouts if anyone can shed any light on it.

Conrad Timms

[Steve Holmes]

Yes I'd be interested to know what happened to that car too conrod. That was a Ford UK works car, built and raced by Rouse, and it won the 1985 BTCC before being bought (I think) by Ford NZ. Whats slightly mystifying is the massive difference in performance/reliability between its UK and NZ showings. In Britain, it missed the opening round, but then won 9 of the 11 remaining races in the 1985 BTCC, backed by one second place, and a single dnf. In NZ it really struggled. It took pole at the 1986 Wellington street race, but retired early. It never seemed to live up to its potential.

I wondered too if it became a Sports Sedan of some kind.

[conrod]

Hi Steve,

I think it had very little competition in the 1985 BTCC, and walked it easily. There are some youtube clips of the 1985 BTCC. IIRC Dave Brodie was the only other car that gave him a run for his money in a Mitsi Starion. In the 1986 Nissan Mobil it was up against the best of the best, and the rest of the NZ series there were some good cars too. This car is usually overlooked in favour of its big brother, the RS500, but was still a front runner in its day (albeit having a very short career once big brother came along and won everything!)


I reckon it might be lurking in a barn somewhere in NZ, although what state it might be in is anyones guess!

Conrad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMuwiR3-EtY

[Steve Holmes]

Actually, thats a really good point conrod, the competition in the BTCC that season was not strong. There were a few BMW 635s, and a few Rover Vittese's also. The only time I can find where the car went up against the best European cars was during the TT at Silverstone, where it qualified 3rd but retired on lap 8.

[Steve Holmes]

I am sure I've seen a photo somewhere of a NZ Sports Sedan that looked like it had been built from a Sierra XR4i. It had wide flared guards etc. From memory it was white at the front then multi-coloured at the rear. But I could just be hallucinating!

[conrod]

yes I also vaguely remember another Sports Sedan that was built from a Sierra, but my memory is in black and white! I think it was in Taupo or somewhere in the central NI.

[Steve Holmes]

OK, just did multiple Google searches using various phrases, and finally found a pic of the car I'd been looking for:

8663

But the description of this car now makes me think it possibly wasn't built from a real XR4i, as its listed as being a tube-frame and fibreglass body.........unless they're talking about just the flares and front end being fibreglass. Would be interesting to know though, as not many XR4i Sierras made it to NZ as road cars, so seems an unlikely model to create a mold for and build a fibreglass body from.

[Steve Holmes]

Sorry, link with info on the above car can be found here: http://www.freewebs.com/nzsupersedans/driverprofiles.htm

[rogered]

OK, just did multiple Google searches using various phrases, and finally found a pic of the car I'd been looking for:

8663

But the description of this car now makes me think it possibly wasn't built from a real XR4i, as its listed as being a tube-frame and fibreglass body.........unless they're talking about just the flares and front end being fibreglass. Would be interesting to know though, as not many XR4i Sierras made it to NZ as road cars, so seems an unlikely model to create a mold for and build a fibreglass body from.

Pretty sure that was home made in rotorua

[conrod]

yep thats the one. None of the parts look Gp.A to me. Would have expected centrelock wheels at the very least, these look bolted on. The look continues!:)

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah, there really isn't much there that looks even remotely related to the Rouse car. Thanks Roger for the background on the above posted Sports Sedan.

[Powder]

How about this one then. Glyn Whittaker at Taupo, Easter 2000.

8675

Another couple of Sierra Cosworths were raced in the 1990's/early 2000's by Tony Stewart & Brett Stratton (with gold DJR rims). I'm not sure of the history of these cars. I can post photos if required.

Malcolm

[rogered]

yep thats the one. None of the parts look Gp.A to me. Would have expected centrelock wheels at the very least, these look bolted on. The look continues!:)

Part of me wonders if it ever came back from Aust.
But in saying that, my aussie contact (who is has a reasonable idea about who has what), has not heard of it popping up over there either.

[conrod]

How about this one then. Glyn Whittaker at Taupo, Easter 2000.

Another couple of Sierra Cosworths were raced in the 1990's/early 2000's by Tony Stewart & Brett Stratton (with gold DJR rims). I'm not sure of the history of these cars. I can post photos if required.

Malcolm

That would be good if you can post those pics. I think I have seen the Strratton car, sort of DJR lookalike. Has centrelocks wheels, so certainly a possibility.



Part of me wonders if it ever came back from Aust.
But in saying that, my aussie contact (who is has a reasonable idea about who has what), has not heard of it popping up over there either.

I will ask Mark Petch next time I see him, maybe he will remember where it went? After all, it was only 20 years ago that he sold it:)

[rogered]

So thinking again
Back in the day, the only Sierras running in NZ were the peanut slab car and the egg. xr4i. (both petchs).
So based on that
A. car sold off to, say, Asia.
B Sold in Australia and updated to a Cosworth.

Its out there somewhere:confused:

[Powder]

So thinking again
Back in the day, the only Sierras running in NZ were the peanut slab car and the egg. xr4i. (both petchs).


Neville Crighton also ran an Eggenberger XR4i and Andrew Bagnell had a pair of Cosworths, I think at least one was an ex-Rouse car. Then there was the Greg(?) Goudie Cosworth, but I think that was Group N spec.

[rogered]

Correct, but i consider the Bagnell car as an aussie based car (Ross stone looked after it???). Goudies was a "road car" group n) and the Crightion car became the petch croft "cossie" then BP francivic.
In saying that," if " the oxton car did become a cosworth, then this would be:confused: more likely done by a smaller team, and you could argue that the bagnell car could fit that catagory. :confused:

Cheers

[Steve Holmes]

As I vaguely understand it, the Rouse rhd XR4i arrived in NZ late in 1985. It later went to Mark Petch, who had Francevic and Leo Leonard drive it at Bathurst after Petch and Francevic had departed the Volvo team at different times. The Neville Crichton lhd Eggenberger car was purchased in late 1986 or early 1987, to compete at early rounds of the 1987 Australian Touring Car Championship, and I seem to recall reading Auto Action reports that Crichton would soon replace it with a Sierra Cosworth/RS500, although this never actually happened to the best of my knowledge.

So unless I'm mistaken, there were only two Sierra XR4i's that raced in Australasia. The new Sierra Cosworth/RS500 arrived for 1987, but in Australia there were only four of these cars that raced in 1987 (excluding the European cars that appeared for the WTCC races): the two DJR cars, driven by Dick Johnson and Greg Hansford, and the two Don Smith cars, driven by Andrew Miedecke, Don Smith, and John Giddings. The Smith car rolled at one event, and the bodyshell was used as the basis for the Mike Ceveri Sierra Sports Sedan, while the Group A components were put into a new bodyshell.

Of the two XR4i Sierras, the Eggenberger car became the second Mark Petch Motorsport Sierra Cosworth, being changed to a Cosworth 3-window etc, and driven by Gary Croft, while Petch also acquired a Wolf Racing (I think?) Cosworth from Germany for Francevic to drive. But these cars didn't appear until at least 1988. The Croft car eventually became the green Sports Sedan. I don't think the second Petch RS500 ever raced outside NZ during Petch's ownership. Only the Francevic Peanut Slab car did.

1988 saw a large influx of Sierra Cosworths/RS500s, for Tony Longhurst, Allan Moffat, Colin Bond, Andrew Bagnall, Murry Carter, etc.

So the original Rouse XR4i still doesn't appear to have resurfaced. As Roger said above, perhaps it stayed in Aus? I know the two DJR Cosworths were built from new, but I don't know much about the Don Smith cars. Could one of these have been the Rouse car rebuilt into a Cosworth/RS500?

[Powder]

In saying that," if " the oxton car did become a cosworth, then this would be:confused: more likely done by a smaller team, and you could argue that the bagnell car could fit that catagory. :confused:
Cheers

Actually that rings a bell. I think I've had this discussion before with someone. There's a hole in the RF guard (at door handle height, you can see it in the upper photo in post #289) on the Rouse XR4i, that was also on one of Bagnell's Cosworths.

Malcolm

Edit: Googling a few pictures it seems that the Rouse Cosworths also had these holes, not just the XR4is.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah, well spotted Malcolm. I hadn't picked up on that before, its where the air hose plugs on for pit stops etc. The Rouse RS500s had these, I think the Brock cars were Rouse built???, his had these, as did Murray Carters, and Andrew Miedeckes. Usually the best fingerprint of a race car is its rollcage, but even these get changed.

[Steve Holmes]

How about this one then. Glyn Whittaker at Taupo, Easter 2000.

8675

Another couple of Sierra Cosworths were raced in the 1990's/early 2000's by Tony Stewart & Brett Stratton (with gold DJR rims). I'm not sure of the history of these cars. I can post photos if required.

Malcolm

This is cool! Thanks for posting. My first guess would be that this was built from a road car, I only say that because it appears to have standard wing mirrors, whereas most of the race cars tended to have smaller more streamlined mirrors that could bolt on/off easily. But hey, who knows? Would be interesting to find out more.

[conrod]

Actually that rings a bell. I think I've had this discussion before with someone. There's a hole in the RF guard (at door handle height, you can see it in the upper photo in post #289) on the Rouse XR4i, that was also on one of Bagnell's Cosworths.

Malcolm

Edit: Googling a few pictures it seems that the Rouse Cosworths also had these holes, not just the XR4is.

That hole you describe was one of Rouse's touches, and as you say it was on the Cosworths too. It had the red "T" shaped handles for the fire extinguisher and master switch. See here:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/conrod1/5223153785_0b6525b5af_b.jpg


As I vaguely understand it, the Rouse rhd XR4i arrived in NZ late in 1985. It later went to Mark Petch, who had Francevic and Leo Leonard drive it at Bathurst after Petch and Francevic had departed the Volvo team at different times. The Neville Crichton lhd Eggenberger car was purchased in late 1986 or early 1987, to compete at early rounds of the 1987 Australian Touring Car Championship, and I seem to recall reading Auto Action reports that Crichton would soon replace it with a Sierra Cosworth/RS500, although this never actually happened to the best of my knowledge.

So unless I'm mistaken, there were only two Sierra XR4i's that raced in Australasia. The new Sierra Cosworth/RS500 arrived for 1987, but in Australia there were only four of these cars that raced in 1987 (excluding the European cars that appeared for the WTCC races): the two DJR cars, driven by Dick Johnson and Greg Hansford, and the two Don Smith cars, driven by Andrew Miedecke, Don Smith, and John Giddings. The Smith car rolled at one event, and the bodyshell was used as the basis for the Mike Ceveri Sierra Sports Sedan, while the Group A components were put into a new bodyshell.

Of the two XR4i Sierras, the Eggenberger car became the second Mark Petch Motorsport Sierra Cosworth, being changed to a Cosworth 3-window etc, and driven by Gary Croft, while Petch also acquired a Wolf Racing (I think?) Cosworth from Germany for Francevic to drive. But these cars didn't appear until at least 1988. The Croft car eventually became the green Sports Sedan. I don't think the second Petch RS500 ever raced outside NZ during Petch's ownership. Only the Francevic Peanut Slab car did.

That is what I believe happened regarding the 2x XR4Ti's, the Garry Croft car was the converted Eggenberger car and only appeared as an RS500 for the 1988/89 season, and was subsequently converted into the "thundersaloon".

Good point about the Bagnall car Roger, I will try to dig out some pics or video of that car, and see if it had the "rouse hole" in it. One other small point, the Eggenberger and Rouse XR4Ti's were built with ali cages, and all Cosworths/RS500's had steel cages, I think it was about the same point that ali cages were banned that they switched over.

[Steve Holmes]

Thats interesting re the rollcages, I didn't know that. I always thought Brocks early RS500 that appeared in 1989 had an alloy rollcage, but it must have just been painted silver to give that impression.

[rogered]

I could well be wrong, but i have a feeling a don smith car might have been ex ken douglas seirra which was possibly a pre-production car and possibly the first in aust. But i could be well off the mark, just recall reading it somewhere.







As I vaguely understand it, the Rouse rhd XR4i arrived in NZ late in 1985. It later went to Mark Petch, who had Francevic and Leo Leonard drive it at Bathurst after Petch and Francevic had departed the Volvo team at different times. The Neville Crichton lhd Eggenberger car was purchased in late 1986 or early 1987, to compete at early rounds of the 1987 Australian Touring Car Championship, and I seem to recall reading Auto Action reports that Crichton would soon replace it with a Sierra Cosworth/RS500, although this never actually happened to the best of my knowledge.

So unless I'm mistaken, there were only two Sierra XR4i's that raced in Australasia. The new Sierra Cosworth/RS500 arrived for 1987, but in Australia there were only four of these cars that raced in 1987 (excluding the European cars that appeared for the WTCC races): the two DJR cars, driven by Dick Johnson and Greg Hansford, and the two Don Smith cars, driven by Andrew Miedecke, Don Smith, and John Giddings. The Smith car rolled at one event, and the bodyshell was used as the basis for the Mike Ceveri Sierra Sports Sedan, while the Group A components were put into a new bodyshell.

Of the two XR4i Sierras, the Eggenberger car became the second Mark Petch Motorsport Sierra Cosworth, being changed to a Cosworth 3-window etc, and driven by Gary Croft, while Petch also acquired a Wolf Racing (I think?) Cosworth from Germany for Francevic to drive. But these cars didn't appear until at least 1988. The Croft car eventually became the green Sports Sedan. I don't think the second Petch RS500 ever raced outside NZ during Petch's ownership. Only the Francevic Peanut Slab car did.

1988 saw a large influx of Sierra Cosworths/RS500s, for Tony Longhurst, Allan Moffat, Colin Bond, Andrew Bagnall, Murry Carter, etc.

So the original Rouse XR4i still doesn't appear to have resurfaced. As Roger said above, perhaps it stayed in Aus? I know the two DJR Cosworths were built from new, but I don't know much about the Don Smith cars. Could one of these have been the Rouse car rebuilt into a Cosworth/RS500?

[rogered]

That hole you describe was one of Rouse's touches, and as you say it was on the Cosworths too. It had the red "T" shaped handles for the fire extinguisher and master switch. See here:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/conrod1/5223153785_0b6525b5af_b.jpg



That is what I believe happened regarding the 2x XR4Ti's, the Garry Croft car was the converted Eggenberger car and only appeared as an RS500 for the 1988/89 season, and was subsequently converted into the "thundersaloon".

Good point about the Bagnall car Roger, I will try to dig out some pics or video of that car, and see if it had the "rouse hole" in it. One other small point, the Eggenberger and Rouse XR4Ti's were built with ali cages, and all Cosworths/RS500's had steel cages, I think it was about the same point that ali cages were banned that they switched over.


I guess the next question is
Where did Andrew Bagnell buy his car from???????

[jim short]

OK Dannie Lupp sold the car less motor to Bob Moore in 1973 only the midle of the chassis was gone,{ I believe it grew back to a full chassis at P Bruins Bill Clarke may know moore}Bob raced the car on a small scale untill it was sent to Charley Conway {Hes still going but does not remember it} in 1977 it did not sell so it returned to Whakatane untill Ted arrived up in his Granada car to tow it south ,there appears to be very little of the Cooper retained .Ted payed something like $3200???

[markec]

You've been busy, all the way to Whakatane and back.

[AMCO72]

Yes, he's crazy. On a terrible day like today, you would think he would be sitting by the fire, feet up, nice rum at his elbow, and studying his scapbooks so he could answer my questions. Whats the telephone for JUM????

[Haga]

That would be good if you can post those pics. I think I have seen the Strratton car, sort of DJR lookalike. Has centrelocks wheels, so certainly a possibility.




I will ask Mark Petch next time I see him, maybe he will remember where it went? After all, it was only 20 years ago that he sold it:)


Brett still owns the Sierra, at present it is in my shed. I am doing a semi-rebuild of it and turning it into a DJR "tribute" car. Was originally a RS roadcar that got morphed with the remains of a RS500 by Tony. Then Brett installed a lot of GroupA running gear ex DJR 9" Harrop diff, rear suspension, wheels, front end etc. Car was raced for a few years and then parked up 3 years agoish.

I removing fibreglass doors, perspex windows, rewiring, putting wetsump engine back in. etc and putting it back to a more period spec.

Plan is to have it up and running later on in year for classic events only.

Wayne

[Powder]

That would be good if you can post those pics. I think I have seen the Strratton car, sort of DJR lookalike. Has centrelocks wheels, so certainly a possibility.


8732

8733

[Powder]

Brett still owns the Sierra, at present it is in my shed. I am doing a semi-rebuild of it and turning it into a DJR "tribute" car. Was originally a RS roadcar that got morphed with the remains of a RS500 by Tony.

Thanks fot the info Wayne. When you mention 'Tony', is that Tony Stewart?
If so, are the two photos in my previous post of the same car?

Malcolm

[GeebeeNZ]

Re Sierras, I seem to recall the Chocolate Peanut Slab car, was still Dick Johnson green on the inside.

[Russ Cunningham]

You've been busy, all the way to Whakatane and back.

I trust speed limits were observed to the letter of the law.

[Haga]

Thanks fot the info Wayne. When you mention 'Tony', is that Tony Stewart?
If so, are the two photos in my previous post of the same car?

Malcolm

Yes Tony...Yes same car.

[Haga]

Re Sierras, I seem to recall the Chocolate Peanut Slab car, was still Dick Johnson green on the inside.

It is white inside.

[conrod]

Brett still owns the Sierra, at present it is in my shed. I am doing a semi-rebuild of it and turning it into a DJR "tribute" car. Was originally a RS roadcar that got morphed with the remains of a RS500 by Tony. Then Brett installed a lot of GroupA running gear ex DJR 9" Harrop diff, rear suspension, wheels, front end etc. Car was raced for a few years and then parked up 3 years agoish.

I removing fibreglass doors, perspex windows, rewiring, putting wetsump engine back in. etc and putting it back to a more period spec.

Plan is to have it up and running later on in year for classic events only.

Wayne

thanks for the info Wayne. Keep in touch about this car, it would probably fit quite nicely into the historic touring car class if your man is interested?

Conrad Timms

[jim short]

Russ you acjually have a friend Jamie

[pallmall]

Re Sierras, I seem to recall the Chocolate Peanut Slab car, was still Dick Johnson green on the inside.

No, it wasn't a Johnson car, and all his Sierras were red anyway. It was at the BMW festival in very original condition.

[David McKinney]

OK Dannie Lupp sold the car less motor to Bob Moore in 1973 only the midle of the chassis was gone,{ I believe it grew back to a full chassis at P Bruins Bill Clarke may know moore}Bob raced the car on a small scale untill it was sent to Charley Conway {Hes still going but does not remember it} in 1977 it did not sell so it returned to Whakatane untill Ted arrived up in his Granada car to tow it south ,there appears to be very little of the Cooper retained .Ted payed something like $3200???
My understanding is that the Rorstan is all Cooper under the skin, apart - as you mention - from the widened cockpit section

I believe the car Peter Bruin built for Bill Clark may have had the original single-seater bodywork, but everything else (including the chassis) was new

[Dave Silcock]

Not true David, I built that car for Bill and it the CS 5 gearbox,fuel and oil tanks, wheels and many more parts. What it lacked was a continuing racing history. It is more a Cooper than Leuch's Lister was a Lister.

[GeebeeNZ]

It is white inside.

No, it wasn't a Johnson car, and all his Sierras were red anyway. It was at the BMW festival in very original condition.

Haga and Gavin. Thanks for clearing that up. Obviously my memory is not what it was.

[Haga]

thanks for the info Wayne. Keep in touch about this car, it would probably fit quite nicely into the historic touring car class if your man is interested?

Conrad Timms

Conrad....The historic touring car scene is what we are interested in for this car.....its "serious" racing days are over.

I will post some photos info etc when some more progress has been made.

Wayne

[David McKinney]

Not true David, I built that car for Bill and it the CS 5 gearbox,fuel and oil tanks, wheels and many more parts. What it lacked was a continuing racing history. It is more a Cooper than Leuch's Lister was a Lister.
Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I did think it had a few other original Cooper parts, but was perhaps trying to oversimplify matters

[Russ Cunningham]

Russ you acjually have a friend Jamie

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy! or should it be Dear Jimmy,
Great chap Jamie! Never cheated on me, never lied to me, all in all probably the happiest years of my life! Eat you're heart out, we should all be so happy.

[conrod]

Actually that rings a bell. I think I've had this discussion before with someone. There's a hole in the RF guard (at door handle height, you can see it in the upper photo in post #289) on the Rouse XR4i, that was also on one of Bagnell's Cosworths.

Malcolm

Edit: Googling a few pictures it seems that the Rouse Cosworths also had these holes, not just the XR4is.

I found some video footage of Andrew Bagnalls Cosworth. It had the hole in the RH front guard, (not LH side like Rouses cars) and everything else I saw about the car suggested it was a newish build, and not a converted XR4Ti.

Conrad

[Marty]

Here are some photos of the last Bagnell Sierra being built at Meidecke Motorsport in about August 89.

[conrod]

Here are some photos of the last Bagnell Sierra being built at Meidecke Motorsport in about August 89.

Great pics Marty, thanks for posting those up! Do you know how many cars (RS500'S) were built by Meidecke Motorsport? Or what became of them?

[Marty]

The tuesday of Bathurst week 1989. Ross (Stone) has just given the Bagnell car its maiden voyage around the block. Team photo( 8 Kiwis and 1 Pom) and in the truck to Bathurst.

We drove all night, even had snow, unloaded, practiced, Crosby qualified the car in the top 10.

Bagnell drove the car in the shoot out and put it in the wall at the cutting. There was front and rear damage, the tailgate overlapped the rear pillar by about 12 inchs, the rear crossmember had torn one end off. This was repaired after a latenight trip to the carpark, with a hacksaw, where a Hertz truck had its exhaust shortened. The truck exhaust was sleeved inside the crossmember. It was another big night (after the other big nights) finally finishing the car in pit lane and started from pitlane. After a couple of hours the car was back up to eighth when the injector rail broke which was the final touch.

[Marty]

Hi Conrod,
I started there in mid 89, there were 3 then.
I'm not sure of the others, there was Andys fire at Lakeside which was another. And there were the OXO cars before that, I don't know were they came from but think they were built in Sydney. These shots are from the Nerang QLD workshop.

[conrod]

Hi Marty, always good to see pics like these, especially by someone who was involved with the cars back in the day. Must have been gutting to have the new car badly damaged first time out! I saw it had a fairly good hit at Wellington in 89 or 90, when Bagnall hit the wall on the LH side when negotiating slower traffic. I am guessing the yellow car in the pic is the Kevin Waldock car? If so, that races in NZ and is owned by a guy in Nelson.

This is the car at Hampton Downs in January.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/conrod1/WS1202I17N2701.jpg

Conrad

[Haga]

Yeap....Waldock car. Owner Brett Stevens...Motueka

[Ted Giles]

I need to correct some details about the Rorstan. I bought it off Bob Moore in 1978. Bob put on a wider front chassis and I have the original Cooper chassis in good condition. The Rorstan still retains the original brakes, suspension, steering, radiator and rea chassis. It has Elfin rear wheels and Brabham fronts. I have spares for both. It has a Hewland HD5 gearbox coupled to a strong Vauxhall motor.When Bill Clarke built his replica he came and took photos of the Rorstan so he should know that it still has many original parts along with it's history. I did not actually pay that price for the Rorstan. it has been a great car for me. I don't know the Kerry Pennell connection.

[David McKinney]

I think the Kerry Pennell connection is confusion with the ex-Donovan Oldins Typhoon, which was around at about the same time and which I think Pennell bought

[Steve Holmes]

Here are some photos of the last Bagnell Sierra being built at Meidecke Motorsport in about August 89.

Hey Marty, thanks heaps for posting these pics, and for clearing up where the Bagnall car came from. Are those Wolf Racing wheels Miedecke used on his cars?

Thanks also for the Waldock Playscape RS500 pics. I don't know why, but I always thought Stone Brothers had built this car. Glad you have steered me straight on that one!

[conrod]

Hey Marty, thanks heaps for posting these pics, and for clearing up where the Bagnall car came from. Are those Wolf Racing wheels Miedecke used on his cars?

Thanks also for the Waldock Playscape RS500 pics. I don't know why, but I always thought Stone Brothers had built this car. Glad you have steered me straight on that one!

They do look like Ronal (Wolf) wheels on Bagnalls and Miedecke's cars? And of course DJR wheels on Waldocks. I think Ross Stone was at Miedecke Motorsport at the time was he not?

[Marty]

You are correct on the Stone Brothers, they were both at Medeckies at the time. Jimmy is behind the car in the first photo.
Ronal rings a bell.
The hole in the gaurd that is talked about was a trendy thing at the time. Just a hammerformed piece welded in.
I have some more photos of it being repaired at the Bathurst Tafe. They used to be the first guys you would go and see when you got there, just in case. Sadly it is no more.

[Steve Holmes]

Oh, so they worked for Miedecke, then they must have moved to DJR after that?

[Graeme Farr]

Hi Dave,

The car I owned I bought from Peter Parnell in the 70's and sold to a chap by the name of Paul Te Puna from the VCCC. Apologies Paul if I've mispelt your name. I think that this was the car that Jacque Van Vels later raced with a Kawasaki motor in the sports car class. Recall selling Jacque a trailer which on the way to his home somehow disconnected itself from the drawbar and wiped out a couple of cars in his street. Nice guy, Jacque.

Peter P. and I have been in touch recently so I'll ask him who owned it before I bought it. He's fairly elderly now and may not remember. Actually! I have no idea why I bought the blasted thing. Probably for the Armstrong shocks, or maybe I was just pissed. I'll dig out a photo and post it when I get a new scanner. The present one crapped out while I was doing a brain scan on my old girlfriend. You know? the one from Paris - cheap at half the price.

Hi Russ,

I think this was a Meridian rather than a Terrapin. It was designed and built by John Moynihan - origiannly had a Cooper S engine in Mk2 form and then a Ford engine on a Mini gearbox in Mk3 form. I owned Moynihans Mk 1 Meridian in the 70's - it was a U2 like thing but built with a supercharged Wolesley 1500 engine. I also had the Ford engine unit from the Mk3 - which I bought when fitted in Sandy Powells rallycross Mini.

Yes Jaque van Vels has the Meridian - but I am not sure how much of the original car is left! Very fast car though.

Graeme Farr

[Russ Cunningham]

Hello Graeme,

You are most likely right. I never had much of an interest in the car, just bought it for the sake of it. Will try and dig out some pics when time permits but you know what that means.

Sandy Powell! Haven't caught up with him in years and he's only up the road. Good chap, owned the Imp Stilleto with rotary power & a MK.8 Hewland. Will ring him and catch up for some serious beer tasting. Isn't that always serious?

[Graeme Farr]

Hello Graeme,

You are most likely right. I never had much of an interest in the car, just bought it for the sake of it. Will try and dig out some pics when time permits but you know what that means.

Sandy Powell! Haven't caught up with him in years and he's only up the road. Good chap, owned the Imp Stilleto with rotary power & a MK.8 Hewland. Will ring him and catch up for some serious beer tasting. Isn't that always serious?

When I bought the Mini off Sandy it was sitting under a hedge - I asked what ever happened to the ex Barry Vuyk Stilletto he had - and he pointed me to another hedge!. There is was all complete with rotary and even still had the cool Haliday wheels. A year or two later an Imp nut from Chch advertised looking for the car and I put him in touch with Sandy. But I think he just took out the Hewland and flogged it off and took the car to the dump. Sad end to a cool car.

Sandy was an amazing engineer - had a massive kiwifruit sorting machine he had built out of bits of apple machinery - and a big fibreglass keeler mould he had built a yacht from. Nice guy too - and very fast rallycross driver.

G

[Russ Cunningham]

Graeme, Did you see the BMC based coupe that Sandy had bought of a guy from Gisborne - it was under another hedge! Had a 1800 Austin/Morris rear mounted.
From what I remember not a bad effort.

Don't you just treasure guys like this.

Russ

[Marty]

Oh, so they worked for Miedecke, then they must have moved to DJR after that?

Yes, I think Ross went straight to Dicks and Jimmy did a a stint with Gardner/Longhurst on the BMW's before joining him.

[AMCO72]

Russ, another Guy in the same mould as Sandy, was Kim Austin. Cant remember much about him except that I loved his driving style and the machines he created. Think he lived down Otorahanga way. I went to a couple of hill climbs where he was participating. I do know he died some years ago and his cars are also probably under some hedge somewhere. I think he may have done the Ashley Forest sprint at some stage.....now that was great to watch, especially the downhill section. Some amazing car control, some times out of control, efforts down there. Your comment that 'dont you just treasure guys like this' is bang on. Unfortunately they just tend to get forgotten. Anyone know any more about Kim?

[markec]

Kim was very seriously into rallying,he did the Ashly more than once and I think he did the first Cadrona/Queenstown Hillclimb.The V8 rx7 was a mean machine.

[Paul Wilkinson]

Kim was very seriously into rallying,he did the Ashly more than once and I think he did the first Cadrona/Queenstown Hillclimb.The V8 rx7 was a mean machine.

Doesn't his Ashley Forest record still stand?

[jim short]

Kim and his mate were killed in a plane crashh may have been a helecopter ,He had a food place south of Taupo {2miles}

[stubuchanan]

Kim and his mate were killed in a plane crashh may have been a helecopter ,He had a food place south of Taupo {2miles}

It was a Robinson R22. Pilot and owner was Chris Barns, another rally driver I believe. January 2004.

Stu

[Oldfart]

Amongst other things Chris ran the mid engine Renault Turbo as a rally and rally sprint car.

[xu1nut]

Les Bognuda did indeed own this car during the 80's in New Plymouth . He was an insurance assessor from memory ( memory aint so good these days either now ) , pretty sure that Larry Taylor used to do the maintenance on it and that probably the last time l ever spoke to Les they were thinking about shoehorning a chevy into it . Car was painted black back then .
Ok, so going though the Sports Sedan entry lists posted by Malcolm/Powder, it would seem that Mr Waswo sold the ex McIntyre/PDL/Bartley Fiat 124 to a Les Bognuda. At least that is my assumption based on using the numbers that Robert Bartley, Waswo and Bognuda used all being 40. Does anyone have any pictures of this car from 1980-1984 either as the Waqswo car or Bugnuda. Also interesting to note is the changes in engine size.
I believe the car to have been an 1800 in Glenn McIntyres hands, thenits shown as "1608"cc in Robert Bartleys hand but this may be a misprint, I believe the engine size as an 1800 was 1808 or 1804, but then in Hoss Waswos hands its a 2litre, before becoming a 1.6 in Les Bognudas care.
Any more info?

[Habu]

Russ, another Guy in the same mould as Sandy, was Kim Austin. Cant remember much about him except that I loved his driving style and the machines he created. Think he lived down Otorahanga way. I went to a couple of hill climbs where he was participating. I do know he died some years ago and his cars are also probably under some hedge somewhere. I think he may have done the Ashley Forest sprint at some stage.....now that was great to watch, especially the downhill section. Some amazing car control, some times out of control, efforts down there. Your comment that 'dont you just treasure guys like this' is bang on. Unfortunately they just tend to get forgotten. Anyone know any more about Kim?

Kim lived in a place called Waitakaruru on the Hauraki Plains heading towards Thames. I think he first made his mark at Ashley Forest in a Chevette powered by a Rover V8 - remember him tipping it on its lid. He set the record in a Series 1 RX7 that may have been partially financed by Lance Green, who was his co-driver at times. The RX7 was a pretty good car, but Kim still drove the wheels off it - he was quite spectacular to watch. He also drove the Hickman / Murphy Starion, which was originally powered by a Rodeck? V8. He campaigned a Nissan Pulsar GTIR for a period in the early 90's, and was a stalwart of the Woolf Mufflers rally series. As already mentioned, he was killed in a helicopter accident with Chris Barnes. Chris rallied the Renault R5 as noted, and moved on to a Nissan Pulsar GTIR also - I heard a rumour that he was the first person to win a rally in this car in the world - winning the Whangerei Rally in 1991. Another guy who rallied around the same time was Greg Taylor - he ran Mazda RX7's, as did Mike Montgomery, and David Thexton. Greg Taylor owned a business called Central Roadmarking, and also raced at Bathurst a couple of times in a third Sierra RS500 with the DJR outfit. Taylor progressed to the RX7, possibly from a BDA Escort. Chris' daughter Leanne also made her mark a few years ago rallying cars. A great shame when Barnes and Austin were killed, and I heard a rumour way back in the day, that Taylor had throat cancer - hence the reason he spent a fortune on his rallying / racing, but could never substantiate this.

[jim short]

Lance Green was with Greens travel Papakura,owned by his dad Jack who also made farm machines and sold them there my wife worked there in travel in the 80s

[AMCO72]

NZ is just a fart-arsed little country, and yet we throw up an amazing array of sporting heros in all sorts of sports, and Motorsport is high on the list. Sandy and Kim are just a couple of lateral thinking guys who beaver away in their sheds concocting cars that can really do the business when it comes down to it. Coupled with a bit of spirited driving these guys become legends over night, and almost as quickly fade away. I think it is our duty here on RS to make sure that this doesn't happen. Too often motorsport has been overlooked when bouquets are being handed out, but as can be seen with what has been posted in all the forums on RS, we have a rich history of do it yourself motoring second to none. Dont worry fellas, we will not forget you.

[Oldfart]

Lance Green was with Greens travel Papakura,owned by his dad Jack who also made farm machines and sold them there my wife worked there in travel in the 80s
Lance was pretty good with the cars that only turn left, and offroaders if my memory serves.

[jim short]

Its 20 plus yrs since I have seen him not sure if and what he raced ,pos. still in Travel bus.today

[jamie]

Hi Guys Stumpy and Kim where good mates RIP . I built Chris BDA Motor,s , and looked after the R 5 turbo car apart from being A shit hot driver, he also took up jet boating and won A world champiship which he was still doing when he and Kim were killed verry verry sad to lose two brilant drivers and frends as well .Jamie A

[PhotoSmith]

Sandy Powell - The Mini with turbocharged ford engine.

Heads Rd hillclimb '82
Mystery Creek rallycross '81
Otorohea Rd hillclimb '81
Rallycross (again) '82

[PhotoSmith]

When I bought the Mini off Sandy it was sitting under a hedge - I asked what ever happened to the ex Barry Vuyk Stilletto he had - and he pointed me to another hedge!. There is was all complete with rotary and even still had the cool Haliday wheels. A year or two later an Imp nut from Chch advertised looking for the car and I put him in touch with Sandy. But I think he just took out the Hewland and flogged it off and took the car to the dump. Sad end to a cool car.

Sandy was an amazing engineer - had a massive kiwifruit sorting machine he had built out of bits of apple machinery - and a big fibreglass keeler mould he had built a yacht from. Nice guy too - and very fast rallycross driver.

G

Sandy Powell - The Stiletto Rotary turbo.

1983 Heads Rd hillclimb blowing up the turbo.
1984 (?) rallycross at Mystery creek.
1985 the end, on the start/finish at mystery creek, can't recall if the lost wheel was the cause or result.

[markec]

8938

[woody]

J D Lovell

[bob homewood]

Teretonga ?

[markec]

I was given the image to post as I recall someone asking for an image, so I had asked around as well.

[Russ Cunningham]

So how about we start a thread on race cars that appear to have vanished from trace. See if we can't track a few of them down.

Here is one I've been trying to learn the fate of for some time, with no luck. I first found out about this car when writing an article for Australian Muscle Car mag a couple of years ago. The reason it grabbed my attention was because it was built in the Wairarapa, in New Zealand, where I moved with my partner Helen a few years ago. While researching various magazines gathering info for the article, I stumbled upon details of this car.

It was built around 1971 by Wayne Fuller, and fitted with an FVA motor reportedly from Paul Faheys Escort. Fuller raced the car in OSCA during the 1971/72 season, and was often the fastest car in the field. At the end of the season Fuller set his sites a little higher, and took the car to Graham Berry (of Berry & Chung hot rodding fame) to have a heap of fabrication work done on the firewall and transmission tunnel, so he could fit a 350ci small block Chevy, with twin off-set Holleys.

This was quite an ambitious project at the time, and appeared to have quite a bit of potential. The newly rebuilt Escort finally debuted at Bay Park in late 1973, driven by 24 year old Roger Brader, another Wairarapa hot shoe. It was very quick in a straight line, as fast as the front running machines of Allan Moffat, Jim Richards, Leo Leonard (in Mustangs), Red Dawson (Camaro), Rod Coppins (Firebird), and Paul Fahey (Capri), but required some development work on suspension and brakes.

Brader and Fuller raced the car at several events throughout the 1973/74 season, but at seasons end Fuller decided to sell it and go boat racing instead. The Escort was sold engineless to Warren Steel in the Hawkes Bay. Steel had planned to fit a smaller Chevy motor to compete in the 4.2 Saloon Car Championship, but failed his eyesight test, and had to sell the car.

It was purchased by John Scott in Auckland, who owned a transport company. This would have been late 1974, or early 1975. From there, the trail goes dead. I'm not sure if the John Scott who purchased the Escort was the same John Scott who raced speedway in the '70s and '80s, but that John Scott did happen to own a transport company, also in Auckland, so perhaps it was the same person. Either way, I've not been able to track him down.

Would love to know what happened to this car, and if it survived. Obviously Escorts were pretty popular during the '70s, and it could have ended up anywhere. Was it converted for ShellSport? Was it scrapped? Was it pushed into someones shed and forgotten about?

Anyway, here is a pic of the car at Levin when it was still fitted with the FVA. It changed little when the Chevy was shoe-horned in, except the wheels became slightly wider. It was silver with a green stripe down each flank, then later had a red or orange stripe.

128

"Berry & Chung"!!!! Bought back a few mammaries! (just for you, Jum)

I recall Dave Chung's father, mainly because of his lovely stilted use of the english language. A typical conversation went like this: "Is Dave there?" "Wat you wan him for? Dwinking? Wooting, Gamling."?

Dave himself had a slightly different way with english - "Whats you're car"? "Chevelle454, 4 on the floor and a dozen in the glovebox.

I fondly recall one night when the boys were out in the Chevelle on the pull. We called into a pub looking for any talent - you know the story! the later it got - the more you drank, the better the girls looked.

Anyway, 9.45 we hooked on to a couple of likely ones. A rule we had was never pull until just before closing time, that way you didn't have to waste money buying them drinks. Turned out these chicks knew where there was a party happening so we piled them into the Chevelle and lit off. It wasn't until we got there that I realised my shag for the night was well and truly up the spout, so being the gentlemen that we were, we had a quick chat and jumped out the lounge window when the girls went to the toilet. Never been so grateful that women always go to the dunny two at a time.

[woody]

How did you then fill in the rest of the night? Did you score later?

[jim short]

Russ you just get corser but you use your own name well I assume its your own and for that you can play

[Russ Cunningham]

Russ you just get corser but you use your own name well I assume its your own and for that you can play

Thanks Jim. My wife would probably agree that I haven't improved with age.

It is my own name, Steve Holmes didn't want me to use his for some reason.

[Steve Holmes]

"Berry & Chung"!!!! Bought back a few mammaries! (just for you, Jum)

I recall Dave Chung's father, mainly because of his lovely stilted use of the english language. A typical conversation went like this: "Is Dave there?" "Wat you wan him for? Dwinking? Wooting, Gamling."?

Dave himself had a slightly different way with english - "Whats you're car"? "Chevelle454, 4 on the floor and a dozen in the glovebox.

I fondly recall one night when the boys were out in the Chevelle on the pull. We called into a pub looking for any talent - you know the story! the later it got - the more you drank, the better the girls looked.

Anyway, 9.45 we hooked on to a couple of likely ones. A rule we had was never pull until just before closing time, that way you didn't have to waste money buying them drinks. Turned out these chicks knew where there was a party happening so we piled them into the Chevelle and lit off. It wasn't until we got there that I realised my shag for the night was well and truly up the spout, so being the gentlemen that we were, we had a quick chat and jumped out the lounge window when the girls went to the toilet. Never been so grateful that women always go to the dunny two at a time.

Ha ha ha, great story!

[Steve Holmes]

When I bought the Mini off Sandy it was sitting under a hedge - I asked what ever happened to the ex Barry Vuyk Stilletto he had - and he pointed me to another hedge!. There is was all complete with rotary and even still had the cool Haliday wheels. A year or two later an Imp nut from Chch advertised looking for the car and I put him in touch with Sandy. But I think he just took out the Hewland and flogged it off and took the car to the dump. Sad end to a cool car.

Sandy was an amazing engineer - had a massive kiwifruit sorting machine he had built out of bits of apple machinery - and a big fibreglass keeler mould he had built a yacht from. Nice guy too - and very fast rallycross driver.

G

Thats a shame, what a neat looking car that was. Out of interest, was this the same car raced by Bryan Bate?

[Russ Cunningham]

Thats a shame, what a neat looking car that was. Out of interest, was this the same car raced by Bryan Bate?

Almost certain that it was the BB car.

[seaqnmac27]

Yep, my uncle, Gordon McBride was Bryan's mechanic for a while.

[bob homewood]

Yes it was I put the Mazda motor into it

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks for that info guys. What a sad end to a neat little car.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks to Bob Homewood for sending me this cracking little shot of the Wayne Fuller Escort in full flight, being chased by the Dennis Marwood and Rod Coppins' Camaros.

10607

[Homer]

To save starting new thread, a few years ago while Tranzam was still a stand-alone class, I remember George Shewirey (spelling) running an older style mustang in the class. For memory it was blue and white. What was the history on that car and where is it now?

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah that car was built by George, or at least it was built for George. He still owns it. I always thought it was imported from the US, but he just painted it up that way.

[Habu]

Yeah that car was built by George, or at least it was built for George. He still owns it. I always thought it was imported from the US, but he just painted it up that way.

To the best of my knowledge, the car in question is now owned by Mike Oldham. George bought the car from someone in Wellington? It was built/finished over a very short timeframe, and was powered initially with a Cleveland engine - possibly later with and SVO Windsor style engine. It definately gave George a taste of Transam style cars, and when the opportunity arose, he of course purchased the Sylvester Mustang.... Im sure Mike Oldham, or someone who knows him could fill in all the correct details of his car.

[Powder]

Here's the car at Pukekohe, Jan '99.

10683

At the time I wondered if it was a Roush Mustang from the States, but comparing the photos tonight, there's not a lot in common, but perhaps the Roush cars were the inspiration for the build.

http://photos.speedtv.com/gallery/ROLEX24%3A_1986_24_Hours_of_Daytona_/slideshow/Pruett_%2F_Ludwig_%2F_Jenner%09Ford_Mustang%097-Eleven%2FRoush_Racing/03Ng3cx72kc0G

[rogered]

Fairly s

ure the build was started in rotorua

[Rod Grimwood]

rogered you are right: The short of it is Lyndsay Willis built the frame etc for Tony Rutherford and Tony had a Roush body he bought back from USA. He onsold project to George and he got it up and running.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks for that info you guys. Habu, you said Mike Oldham has it, does he race it? He also bought George's Pre-65 Mustang many moons ago.

[Habu]

Thanks for that info you guys. Habu, you said Mike Oldham has it, does he race it? He also bought George's Pre-65 Mustang many moons ago.

Hi Steve, Mike has raced the car, cant remember which year he raced it last - memories a bit hazy on that one. Think he ran it in the TraNZam series that was promoted a few years ago. Last time I saw the car run, it was painted a gunmetal grey colour. Yes, Mike owns George's old Pre-65 Mustang, also owns a really nice Falcon Cobra coupe that he has had some success in.

[Steve Holmes]

Ahhh, thanks for that. George showed me a picture of the car as it looks now, in gunmetal grey. I'd forgotten about that until you pointed out it was the same car.

[Steve Holmes]

There is a 1968 Holden Monaro HK currently on Trademe that I thought might have been the old Spinner Black Cambridge car that raced in New Zealand in the late '60s and early/mid '70s, later owned by Grady Thomson, Jim Carlisle, and George Bunce. There are several similarities between the two, including add-on fibreglass rear flares, which Spinners car had fitted, plus the fuel filler cap relocated to the top of the rear quarter panel, plus the Trademe car was once fitted with a rollcage.

However, the Spinner Black Monaro was involved in a road crash in the '80s, in which it hit a power pole sideways, causing substantial damage that the previous owner thought was enough for it to have been a write-off. Also, the car on Trademe, according to its body tags, is Bright Blue Metallic with Bright Blue Metallic interior. The Bright Blue Metallic paint can still be seen in places under the current red, and the Bright Blue Metallic rear seat is still intact. Spinners Monaro never had a back seat, even right into the 1980s when it had become a road car. Plus, Spinners Monaro never had a head lining.

It had me going there for a while though! Here is the link for anyone who is interested: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=508465725

10771

[John McKechnie]

Hi Steve, If you check the same Monaro in Autonews,number 15,volume3 February page 26 you will clearly see that Grady Thomson has a back seat.As it is a black and white photo, and as the seat can clearly be seen, then the seat is a light colour such as the teal blue as the body tags state.

[Steve Holmes]

John, I thought you told me Spinners car never had a back seat, hood lining or body tags when I was looking at that Trademe Monaro?

[John McKechnie]

All the information verbally from people said there was no interior, even with that recent interview with Spinner Black by Gerard Richards for Classic Car mag ,it said the same thing.Problem is listening to people and their memories from 40 years ago. I listened and believed also as we all do.
I have only just got the mag now from Russ Cunningham and have now seen it for the first time. I recently got 15 motoring mags from this period off him and this is the only clear photo of the interior in all of them.
Photos show so much, this one for example , the simple hoop roll cage at the B pillar position with a pipe each side going back to the parcel tray.
Interestingly , I now have also read David McKinneys article on Grady from 1970 for the first time.A good reporter that gentleman.
Will post updates as the the newer paint is scrapped off and its earlier history can be seen.
So far have found Bunces Burnt Orange and some sign writing , also a large area of white paint-could very well be Team Cambridge- on roof and right rear pillar .Dark blue paint on B pillar
Unfortunately there were no front guards, bonnet and boot lid to scrap paint off.

[John McKechnie]

Does any one know what happened to the set of webbers and manifold that John Riley had, and sold to George Bunce for his 350 HK Monaro..They were sold on in 76-78.I would like to get them and put them back on the original motor for this car.

[seaqnmac27]

So how about we start a thread on race cars that appear to have vanished from trace. See if we can't track a few of them down.

Here is one I've been trying to learn the fate of for some time, with no luck. I first found out about this car when writing an article for Australian Muscle Car mag a couple of years ago. The reason it grabbed my attention was because it was built in the Wairarapa, in New Zealand, where I moved with my partner Helen a few years ago. While researching various magazines gathering info for the article, I stumbled upon details of this car.

It was built around 1971 by Wayne Fuller, and fitted with an FVA motor reportedly from Paul Faheys Escort. Fuller raced the car in OSCA during the 1971/72 season, and was often the fastest car in the field. At the end of the season Fuller set his sites a little higher, and took the car to Graham Berry (of Berry & Chung hot rodding fame) to have a heap of fabrication work done on the firewall and transmission tunnel, so he could fit a 350ci small block Chevy, with twin off-set Holleys.

This was quite an ambitious project at the time, and appeared to have quite a bit of potential. The newly rebuilt Escort finally debuted at Bay Park in late 1973, driven by 24 year old Roger Brader, another Wairarapa hot shoe. It was very quick in a straight line, as fast as the front running machines of Allan Moffat, Jim Richards, Leo Leonard (in Mustangs), Red Dawson (Camaro), Rod Coppins (Firebird), and Paul Fahey (Capri), but required some development work on suspension and brakes.

Brader and Fuller raced the car at several events throughout the 1973/74 season, but at seasons end Fuller decided to sell it and go boat racing instead. The Escort was sold engineless to Warren Steel in the Hawkes Bay. Steel had planned to fit a smaller Chevy motor to compete in the 4.2 Saloon Car Championship, but failed his eyesight test, and had to sell the car.

It was purchased by John Scott in Auckland, who owned a transport company. This would have been late 1974, or early 1975. From there, the trail goes dead. I'm not sure if the John Scott who purchased the Escort was the same John Scott who raced speedway in the '70s and '80s, but that John Scott did happen to own a transport company, also in Auckland, so perhaps it was the same person. Either way, I've not been able to track him down.

Would love to know what happened to this car, and if it survived. Obviously Escorts were pretty popular during the '70s, and it could have ended up anywhere. Was it converted for ShellSport? Was it scrapped? Was it pushed into someones shed and forgotten about?

Anyway, here is a pic of the car at Levin when it was still fitted with the FVA. It changed little when the Chevy was shoe-horned in, except the wheels became slightly wider. It was silver with a green stripe down each flank, then later had a red or orange stripe.

128


So this is a different Escort to the one Brader and Fuller were rallying in 75 Steve?

[Steve Holmes]

Yes it is Sean. Wayne owned the car, and sold it to Warren Steel in 1974 without the motor. I think Wayne actually went jet boat racing after he sold the Escort, then probably got back into rallying.

[bob homewood]

14498

Here is one for GD66 you might remember the story of this Mini and perhaps some of the guys in it ,not much of a photo I am sorry but this Mini was a bit " different"

[RacerT]

Just to throw another car in the pot, does anyone know where the 'Scarab" sportscar is. I owned it in 1968 and converted it to road legal, which was a bit of a hoot! Powered by a Studebaker Hawk V8, 3 speed box, Ford V8 rear end, VW Kombi fron end complete with drum brakes.
Looked like a large U2!
It is reputed to have left the back straight at Pukekohe when the brakes faded and ended up on the main road, where it eventually re-entered the circuit through the main gates.

[John McKechnie]

I remember hearing this story, but never knew which car it was. Heard rumours it was a F5000 or a high powered sportscar. Did it take out the fence or was the gate open?

[David McKinney]

Too early to be a F5000, especially as its description as "a large U2" suggests it was front-engined

Racer:
Was the car built by Mike Austin, do you know? For some reason I thought it was imported from the South Island, but can't recall anything quite like that racing there either

[Rod Grimwood]

Think Mr Williams (racing Ray) did the act of dissapearing off back straight and driving back around road to gate, in later years.

[John McKechnie]

So they leave the gate open as an emergency run off?
Dont recall this being mentioned at any drivers briefing.
Cant see them shifting tyre bundles just because the famous Ray Williams cant stop in time.
I dont recall ever seeing this emergency exit, anybody else-apart from these guys- ever see it?
Man, the Police would have a field day ticketing people on a wet day .
How would they do it-slap it on the screen as they enter the road? Or catch them on the way back?

[Rod Grimwood]

This was way before the days of the tyre barrier, in fact could have been reason why it was introduced. And it was wet.
There was a rubbish dump down in the bottom of valley, some one may be able to confirm this as well as it was a common stopping place.

Now you have sand and then tyres.

[bob homewood]

Rod ,
That was before the rubbish dump and the trees grew up from memory




This was way before the days of the tyre barrier, in fact could have been reason why it was introduced. And it was wet.
There was a rubbish dump down in the bottom of valley, some one may be able to confirm this as well as it was a common stopping place.

Now you have sand and then tyres.

[Rod Grimwood]

I was never going quick enough to get that far Bob.

[RacerT]

Too early to be a F5000, especially as its description as "a large U2" suggests it was front-engined

Racer:
Was the car built by Mike Austin, do you know? For some reason I thought it was imported from the South Island, but can't recall anything quite like that racing there either

Hi David. Yes front engined. Seemed very fast to an 18 year old! The Kombi front end bolted straight on to the chassis. I was told at the time and this is probably only a couple of years after the event, that the car had pulled 150 mph down the straight, the Kombi brakes had hauled it down to about 100 mph then faded completely. The car then leapt the creek and the fence and ended up on the road. I put Goodyear G800 tyres on it, installed a handbrake with no cables and went to the local garage. They didn't want to drive it, so I did.
I made a great flourish of pulling on the handbrake and stepping on the brakes and the car stopped in a shower of dust. They didn't seem to spot that all four wheels had locked up on the gravel. He then said "where's the sun visor?". I said "where's the windscreen?"
In the end a compromise was found with a piece of green sticky tape on the little Perspex wind deflector about two feet lower than my line of sight! Those were the days. I'll see if I can find a photo in my old albums.

[GD66]

14498

Here is one for GD66 you might remember the story of this Mini and perhaps some of the guys in it ,not much of a photo I am sorry but this Mini was a bit " different"

Cheers Bob, from memory that mini may have had a drinking problem....ie maybe methanol ? :cool:
(I'm tapping the side of my nose furtively as I say this...)

[bob homewood]

Yes I was being a bit hard with that one as you were not around then that was Ken Kayes Mini with the Ford engine in it ,that he built in Tokoroa ,Tim was involved with it ,that's why I mentioned it ,I think in that photo there is myself ,West Marshall and Laurie Durrand ? ,the person with his back to the camera I thought might have been Tim but it could be Ken Kaye,That was the day before practice for the 1965 NZIGP meeting at Pukekohe ,I gave the guys a hand and they used my workshop at home and stayed with me that week end,unforunately although the thing flew .Ken blew the motor big time and that was the end of it ,I am not sure what happened to the car ,but I believe the engine bits were dumped


Cheers Bob, from memory that mini may have had a drinking problem....ie maybe methanol ? :cool:
(I'm tapping the side of my nose furtively as I say this...)

[John McKechnie]

14815
Here at last is a real abandoned lost race car worthy of this title .It has been mentioned earlier on this thread.This is the Team Cambridge Monaro, driven by Rod Coppins in 1969 practice at Pukekohe, and Bay Park. Raced by Grady Thomson 1970 , and equaled outright lap record on large circuit. Also driven in practice Baypark and Pukekohe by John Riley 1972 when owned by Jim Carlisle. Last raced in 1975 by George Bunce. Found like this in Otara 15 years ago.I got it stripped body shell off trademe this year. was mentioned recently in Classic Car Driver and NZV8. Now saved and will be racing at Hampton Downs 2014.
Hard to imagine this is the car Motorman featured as a tailpiece-"Spinner said she was a flyer , wonder if he would mind me parking it in the hanger"

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, amazing photo John, and it actually deteriorated quite a bit more between when this photo was taken and when you got the car. Poor old thing has had a pretty tough time the last 25 years!

[seaqnmac27]

14854

Ok one that was lost. From the 1973 Shell Annual. This is the one and only race of Malcolm Coffey in the Ex Jack Nazer Ford Escort at Levin 1973

[Kiwiboss]

Here at last is a real abandoned lost race car worthy of this title .It has been mentioned earlier on this thread.This is the Team Cambridge Monaro, driven by Rod Coppins in 1969 practice at Pukekohe, and Bay Park. Raced by Grady Thomson 1970 , and equaled outright lap record on large circuit. Also driven in practice Baypark and Pukekohe by John Riley 1972 when owned by Jim Carlisle. Last raced in 1975 by George Bunce. Found like this in Otara 15 years ago.I got it stripped body shell off trademe this year. was mentioned recently in Classic Car Driver. Now saved and will be racing at Hampton Downs 2014

No friggen way John, do you realize you have just over 365 days to do this!!!LOL

Dale M

[John McKechnie]

I think that by having Hardtop Smurff at HD next weekend, I kept my committment that I made last year when the Aussies were here.
This Monaro is easier , trust me- Steve H is calling in so will get him to work.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Kim lived in a place called Waitakaruru on the Hauraki Plains heading towards Thames. I think he first made his mark at Ashley Forest in a Chevette powered by a Rover V8 - remember him tipping it on its lid. He set the record in a Series 1 RX7 that may have been partially financed by Lance Green, who was his co-driver at times. The RX7 was a pretty good car, but Kim still drove the wheels off it - he was quite spectacular to watch. He also drove the Hickman / Murphy Starion, which was originally powered by a Rodeck? V8. He campaigned a Nissan Pulsar GTIR for a period in the early 90's, and was a stalwart of the Woolf Mufflers rally series. As already mentioned, he was killed in a helicopter accident with Chris Barnes. Chris rallied the Renault R5 as noted, and moved on to a Nissan Pulsar GTIR also - I heard a rumour that he was the first person to win a rally in this car in the world - winning the Whangerei Rally in 1991. Another guy who rallied around the same time was Greg Taylor - he ran Mazda RX7's, as did Mike Montgomery, and David Thexton. Greg Taylor owned a business called Central Roadmarking, and also raced at Bathurst a couple of times in a third Sierra RS500 with the DJR outfit. Taylor progressed to the RX7, possibly from a BDA Escort. Chris' daughter Leanne also made her mark a few years ago rallying cars. A great shame when Barnes and Austin were killed, and I heard a rumour way back in the day, that Taylor had throat cancer - hence the reason he spent a fortune on his rallying / racing, but could never substantiate this.

I seem to recall Austin won the 1988 Northland Rally, the following year his car caught fire and was gutted. Think he had Placemakers sponsorship in the 1990 season, he may have won the Woolf Mufflers Top Half Rally Series that year or in 89. Must have been 92 or 93 he campaigned the GTiR.
Barns was indeed the first person in the world to win a rally with the GTiR - it even scored a mention in the British magazine Autosport! He actually won 4 rallies that season, and took maximum Woolf Mufflers Top Half Rally Series points in the final round, the NZFP Tokoroa Rally, which was also the final round of the NZ Rally Championship. He came second by 4 seconds to Brian Stokes in his Sierra Cosworth.
Taylor I think had a BDA Escort prior to running the RX7 - the Mazda appeared at the beginning of the season with a really nice paintjob that moved Rob Scott to comment in his Pacenotes column that he "must have roadmarked the Assembly of God churches' carpark to afford it". Taylor went on to purchase Allport's Mazda 323, and then the Lancia that Sundstrum used to win Group N in the 1992 Rally of New Zealand. Plus he owed the ex Graeme Barker Mazda RX7 that had been fitted with a X-trac 4WD system and a Sierra Cosworth Turbo motor.
Thexton was another driver to run a Pulsar GTiR - I think it was the only one to run a X-trac gearbox. It was later sold to Geoff Argile who had a lot more sucess with it....

[Malcolm McLeod]

I could well be wrong, but i have a feeling a don smith car might have been ex ken douglas seirra which was possibly a pre-production car and possibly the first in aust. But i could be well off the mark, just recall reading it somewhere.

Ken Douglas used $80,000 of his own money to import both a road going car, and a spare bodyshell, along with a couple of engines and almost 200 engineering drawings of the modifications required to convert to a Group A racer.
To quote Modern MOTOR magazine October 1986, "Ken's name may not mean much to reader's outside Victoria yet - but believe us that will change soon".

Most of the Sierra's seemed to be Rouse kit-cars, but the Petch car was ex-Wolf (they had a LOT of scrutineering problems at their first race meeting - Franceivic said they turned up at the racetrack to do some testing and discovered a race meeting was going on! - the old European Group A regs v Oz Group A rules).
I think one or two of the later B&H Sierra's may have been Wolf as well? And of course Moffat's cars were Eggenburger cars.

Lastly, I was reading that the DJR Sierra that Taylor and Kayne Scott drove at Bathurst in 1991? had been sold (to Taylor? at the time), so what has happened to it? How many did DJR actually build altogether - must have been at least 6, as there were two sold to Mike Gravatt/Trackstar at the end of 1988, and Ray Lintott also bought one in about 1990. How many survive?

[Haga]

Lastly, I was reading that the DJR Sierra that Taylor and Kayne Scott drove at Bathurst in 1991? had been sold (to Taylor? at the time), so what has happened to it? How many did DJR actually build altogether - must have been at least 6, as there were two sold to Mike Gravatt/Trackstar at the end of 1988, and Ray Lintott also bought one in about 1990. How many survive?


All 6 survive plus a promo car. The latest internet info is that DJR1,2 in UK, DJR3 (lintot car),4,5 all in QLD, 6 just sold to VIC and promo car in Tassie. There is a RS500 thread with lot of info in it on here..cheers

[928]

this si in reply to post No 415

Your comment about the Graeme Barker RX7 having a sierra cosworth turbo engine contrasts with Jamies version where it has a Cosworth GAA v6. I wonder which is correct? or was an engine change done?

[Steve Holmes]

I recall seeing it on tv doing the Ashley Forest Sprint, and the tv commentator said it was fitted with the V6 from the old Paul Fahey Capri. But there were at least 3 of those motors in NZ by that time.

[Steve Holmes]

Ken Douglas used $80,000 of his own money to import both a road going car, and a spare bodyshell, along with a couple of engines and almost 200 engineering drawings of the modifications required to convert to a Group A racer.
To quote Modern MOTOR magazine October 1986, "Ken's name may not mean much to reader's outside Victoria yet - but believe us that will change soon".

Most of the Sierra's seemed to be Rouse kit-cars, but the Petch car was ex-Wolf (they had a LOT of scrutineering problems at their first race meeting - Franceivic said they turned up at the racetrack to do some testing and discovered a race meeting was going on! - the old European Group A regs v Oz Group A rules).
I think one or two of the later B&H Sierra's may have been Wolf as well? And of course Moffat's cars were Eggenburger cars.

Lastly, I was reading that the DJR Sierra that Taylor and Kayne Scott drove at Bathurst in 1991? had been sold (to Taylor? at the time), so what has happened to it? How many did DJR actually build altogether - must have been at least 6, as there were two sold to Mike Gravatt/Trackstar at the end of 1988, and Ray Lintott also bought one in about 1990. How many survive?

Wow, I didn't know that! Did Douglas ever race it, or is this the car that went to Don Smith, as Roger suggested above? If so, this would be the car whose shell became the Ceveri Chevy powered sports sedan.

[JIMPY]

8938

Photo taken 26/1/1963 at Teretonga New Zealand, either race No 3 or 8. This photo hangs in a quiet corner and I thought to be the only one.. The car was taken to Uk during year 2000 and appeared in CLASSIC & SPORTS CAR magazine January 2001 page 230
under the heading TO SELL YOUR CAR---HISTORIC-RACING-HILLCLIMB.....LLOYD SPECIAL 1955, SIMILAR COOPER, beautifully built. New Zealand Record Holder. also includes a photo and a Price with Trailer UK $ 8.950 = NZ$ a lot JIMPY

[Gimmeabeer]

I have Chassis number 71. Built to and maintains original Mk 1 features (10" wheels, drum brakes etc). The car was built by Donald Conway of Edendale around 1999. I understand Ross Cameron of Dunedin still owns one. Geoff, Whangarei

[Gimmeabeer]

Sorry, should have said Terrapin 71. I thought the reply would attach itself to the box. Geoff

[Oldfart]

I have been looking for a Terrapin for years, anyone know of one available?

[Jizim]

To the best of my knowledge, the car in question is now owned by Mike Oldham. George bought the car from someone in Wellington? It was built/finished over a very short timeframe, and was powered initially with a Cleveland engine - possibly later with and SVO Windsor style engine. It definately gave George a taste of Transam style cars, and when the opportunity arose, he of course purchased the Sylvester Mustang.... Im sure Mike Oldham, or someone who knows him could fill in all the correct details of his car.

Isnt funny how you can get things so wrong...! (I have never lived in Wellington....) I bought the body which was the latest thing from Jack Roush in the USA.. I got my good friend Lynsay Willis from Rotorua to build me a spaceframe chassis for it....and I had all the latest and greatest engine stuff done in the States along with the last two close ratio gearboxs to come out of the Super T10 factory just before it burnt to the ground....(leaving a major problem for GH's Corvettes which ran these gearboxes for a long period of time..) The car had a Speedway engineering quick change diff in the rear. This car was almost completed when personal reasons forced me to stop and sell it to my buddy George Shewiery. George actually ran the car for this time at Wellington street race. May have been the same year I did the Group A race in a Toyota with champion Sports Sedan driver Brian Friend. The collection of all the engine parts, heads etc, and gearbox was to be organised for pick up before I was to fly with my wife to be a guest of Jack Roush and pick up the Mustang body. The slowness of the Yanks that were doing my special cylinder heads forced me to put back my flight to the East Coast by one day. I was pretty pissed off but didn't wanna leave without my heads. What occurred next sends shudders down my back. Those Yanks that were so slow that I had to re schedule my flight saved my life! The plane we were to fly back to the West Coast..(LA's John Wayne airport )...on crashed on take off killing everyone on board! Crazy! Another little snippet of interest is that a week or so later on board the flight back home to NZ via Hawaii for a weeks rest was none other than Randell Edgell and his wife Janice. They had been there to sort out the purchase of a Jack Roush Merker XR4i which I had seen in a corner of one of Jack's shops. This is the car Kayne Scott pedalled for the ever popular Mark Petch... To my knowledge Mike Oldhan still has the car....(I will ask him when I next see him)...I have so many snippets of interest to share on this site I better start recalling. Thats another day. Kindest regards, Tony Rutherford.

[John McKechnie]

With stories like this , I think Lost Race Car Drivers would also make a good thread.

[rf84]

Terrapins are great clubbie cars. Robust, with enough ground clearance to do hillclimbs and relatively easy to get bits for. Sometimes I think I would rather have one of those than my FF which is really too low for hillclimbs.

[rf84]

There must be a few more Terrapins hiding in sheds-there have been a few raced here over the years.

[CUSTAXIE50]

yep thats the one. None of the parts look Gp.A to me. Would have expected centrelock wheels at the very least, these look bolted on. The look continues!:)

Last time i saw this car was at manfeild 2003 a very fast car, it had a nissan v6 turbo on this day .the oil hoses only had radiator hose clips to hold them on and they would come off from time to time.I did take a number of photos of this car,the sound it made on fill sing down the front of manfeild a very nice car.The only thing i did not like was the way the roll cage was made,the front part came up and a cross the front windscreen and down the other side.The driver was from wellington,looking at the wheels they had four wheel nuts on the front and five on the back. My view was at that time the tow vehicle was a gold falcon ute reg number of what i can see from the photos was 2BADD

[George Sheweiry]

Hey there guys, I recently heard of an interesting car that Bill Leckie apparently first started out in. Word has it that he built the car himself, a Hillman Imp powered by a Coventry Climax engine thru a hewland rearend. I would think that would have been quite a clever combo for back then. Any pictures or info on this.

[seaqnmac27]

Hi George there are quite a few pics of it in a thread called RIP which was started when it was rather erroneously suggested that Bill had died. It has become a thread now for others who have passed. This is a shot of it from I believe the 1975 GP meet at Pukekohe. There are better ones on that thread.

17904

[Steve Holmes]

The slowness of the Yanks that were doing my special cylinder heads forced me to put back my flight to the East Coast by one day. I was pretty pissed off but didn't wanna leave without my heads. What occurred next sends shudders down my back. Those Yanks that were so slow that I had to re schedule my flight saved my life! The plane we were to fly back to the West Coast..(LA's John Wayne airport )...on crashed on take off killing everyone on board! Crazy!

OK, thats pretty bloody freaky!

[Steve Holmes]

I might have already posted this one on here, but does anyone know what happened to the Bill Leckie V8 Capri? Bill last raced it in the 1977 season, as pictured (photo supplied by Milan Fistonic) before it was outlawed with the MSNZ maximum 2 litre rule for 1978. I did speak to Bill about it a few years ago, and he told me he removed the McLaren running gear from it, plus the rear axle and gearbox, and traded the body and all the molds for a V8 Bedford van, to a guy who had a backyard car wreckers yard. I can't remember where Bill said the wreckers yard was, could have been in Papatoetoe? The guy who got it told Bill he was going to get it up and running again, but it hasn't been seen since.

17907

[Spgeti]

On one of my trips to friends in the early 80s I saw the Capri parked on the side of the road to the east of Huntly past a wreakers yard. I will look at google and try to give the name of the road. The wreakers yard I believe is now no more.

[Steve Holmes]

Oh wow, thanks Bruce! Thats really interesting. Although it doesn't sound too good for the Capri. What shape was it in? Was it complete or just the body?

[Spgeti]

Tahuna Road, must of been late 1984 when I met Lynne. Still sign written but stupid of me I didn't stop and have a nosey. It was still white.

[Howard Wood]

Is that Jim Richards driving the Capri? After Bill's accident JR drove the car while Bill recovered as I understand the car itself was not badly damaged.

[Spgeti]

Really wracking the grey matter at the moment Steve. It was on a trailer but thats about it. Would of been 5 to 8 ks back from the main road. Someone will remember the wreakers yard. It was parked at the entrance to a farm on the left side heading away from the main road further on from the wreakers yard. I should of stopped.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks Bruce, great info. Good memory! Hope some more light can be shed.

[Steve Holmes]

Is that Jim Richards driving the Capri? After Bill's accident JR drove the car while Bill recovered as I understand the car itself was not badly damaged.

Yep thats right Howard, JR drove it at Puke when his Mustang broke something, and Bill was still recovering from the burns he received at Manfeild. Richards actually broke the saloon car lap record that day, previously held by Jack Nazers Victor.

[rf84]

If ever any of you are going to Fiji you might ask Bill himself. He spends a lot of time in Fiji where he runs a charter boat out of Port Denarau. When not out on his boat you will often find him at a bar at Port Denarau called "Cardo's" with Ross Grenville and some other ex NZ racers.

[Michael Clark]

I understood it was damaged and required quite a bit of work before JR got into it and set a new outright lap record for roofed vehicles at Puke - even though it was a sub 4.2 litre.

Guys like Richard Sisler and John Rush and co were part of the crew doing the 'all-nighters' to get her back running.

[BMCBOY]

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[CUSTAXIE50]

Yep thats right Howard, JR drove it at Puke when his Mustang broke something, and Bill was still recovering from the burns he received at Manfeild. Richards actually broke the saloon car lap record that day, previously held by Jack Nazers Victor.

The gearbox input shaft and clutch did not fit the way they should have on the mustang.

[Steve Holmes]

Hey Ross, those pics are fantastic! Thanks for posting them.

[Steve Holmes]

I understood it was damaged and required quite a bit of work before JR got into it and set a new outright lap record for roofed vehicles at Puke - even though it was a sub 4.2 litre.

Guys like Richard Sisler and John Rush and co were part of the crew doing the 'all-nighters' to get her back running.

Yes thats right Michael, the fire damage was quite severe. The repairs to the car though were done quite a bit faster than the recovery time for Bill. The JR deal must have been done well ahead of the event at Puke, as the Capri has Sidchrome signage on it.

[GREGG TAYLOR]

Hi Habu I am Gregg Taylor . Just thought I would put the record straight . The rumour that I have or had throat cancer is unfounded . I haven't seen a doctor in 15 years . I still have all my hair . I am fit and well .I did spend a lot of money on motor racing . This was because motor racing was and still is my passion . I did a long apprentiship in motorsport and realised my dreams . I won the top half rally championship in 1988 , THE north Island RX7 championship in 1991 , Drove a Cosworth at Bathurst 1991 in DJR team , finished 5th NZ touring cars 1992 . Won the NZ V8 Championship in 1996 . I competed in 5 international Rallies . I then retired from competition and assisted my son Callum with his aspirations into motorsport .

I currently live in Queensland Australia . I have built a successful Linemarking business over here . I think if you annalise cost in motor racing , you will find that the era I raced in was the most affordable . Compare running a NZ V8 these days . I paid $25000.00 for the car . It cost $55000.00 to run the car through the championship . Master Trade supplied sponsorship of $40000.00 I won $10000.00 for winning the Championship and sold the car for $25000.00 Try doing that today .... No Chance .
People spend money on their sport to attain the opportunity to hopefully elevate their chances to rise to the elite heights of their chosen sport . Your rivals in that league are spending the money on tyres and good equipment , so must you to compete on a level playing field .
I trust I have cleared up both of the points made in your post .

[Michael Clark]

And a Reynard Atlantic?

[John McKechnie]

Hi Habu I am Gregg Taylor . Just thought I would put the record straight . The rumour that I have or had throat cancer is unfounded . I haven't seen a doctor in 15 years . I still have all my hair . I am fit and well .I did spend a lot of money on motor racing . This was because motor racing was and still is my passion . I did a long apprentiship in motorsport and realised my dreams . I won the top half rally championship in 1988 , THE north Island RX7 championship in 1991 , Drove a Cosworth at Bathurst 1991 in DJR team , finished 5th NZ touring cars 1992 . Won the NZ V8 Championship in 1996 . I competed in 5 international Rallies . I then retired from competition and assisted my son Callum with his aspirations into motorsport .

I currently live in Queensland Australia . I have built a successful Linemarking business over here . I think if you annalise cost in motor racing , you will find that the era I raced in was the most affordable . Compare running a NZ V8 these days . I paid $25000.00 for the car . It cost $55000.00 to run the car through the championship . Master Trade supplied sponsorship of $40000.00 I won $10000.00 for winning the Championship and sold the car for $25000.00 Try doing that today .... No Chance .
People spend money on their sport to attain the opportunity to hopefully elevate their chances to rise to the elite heights of their chosen sport . Your rivals in that league are spending the money on tyres and good equipment , so must you to compete on a level playing field .
I trust I have cleared up both of the points made in your post .

Gregg- All that really matters here is your personal health , it is great to hear that rumours of your bad health are incorrect.
Long may you continue and indulging in your passion of motorsport.

[rogered]

"the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"
Mark Twain :)

[rf84]

Hi Gregg and welcome to The Roaring Season.
Noel Martin-Smith here. Still in the Bay and still involved in Hawkes Bay Car Club. The old Cooper 500 is long gone (to Seattle) and was replaced with the ex Ashley Stichbury RF84 Van Diemen Formula Ford which I still get out in now and again.
Good to hear you are alive and well.

[Habu]

Hi Habu I am Gregg Taylor . Just thought I would put the record straight . The rumour that I have or had throat cancer is unfounded . I haven't seen a doctor in 15 years . I still have all my hair . I am fit and well .I did spend a lot of money on motor racing . This was because motor racing was and still is my passion . I did a long apprentiship in motorsport and realised my dreams . I won the top half rally championship in 1988 , THE north Island RX7 championship in 1991 , Drove a Cosworth at Bathurst 1991 in DJR team , finished 5th NZ touring cars 1992 . Won the NZ V8 Championship in 1996 . I competed in 5 international Rallies . I then retired from competition and assisted my son Callum with his aspirations into motorsport .

I currently live in Queensland Australia . I have built a successful Linemarking business over here . I think if you annalise cost in motor racing , you will find that the era I raced in was the most affordable . Compare running a NZ V8 these days . I paid $25000.00 for the car . It cost $55000.00 to run the car through the championship . Master Trade supplied sponsorship of $40000.00 I won $10000.00 for winning the Championship and sold the car for $25000.00 Try doing that today .... No Chance .
People spend money on their sport to attain the opportunity to hopefully elevate their chances to rise to the elite heights of their chosen sport . Your rivals in that league are spending the money on tyres and good equipment , so must you to compete on a level playing field .
I trust I have cleared up both of the points made in your post .

WOW!!!

Fantastic to hear youre in great health Greg, and that the rumours from the past, are just those.
Thank you for taking the time to answer some of the questions that myself, and some of my friends have pondered over the last 20 or so years. I agree totally with your comments about the cost of motorsport, and its cost relative to the time when you competed. You were very much one of the guys who left us all wondering "what happened to...." - especially based on the variety of equipment, and the different disciplines you raced in.
So great to hear youre doing well.

Habu

[GREGG TAYLOR]

Hi Habu Thanks for your response . Those were great days back then .Met a fantastic group of people . Realised that to go motoracing you need a dedicated team , and that the guy driving is just a spanner to make it all happen on the day. Our team certainly dedicated themselves to the cause , both on the track , and the after functions HaHA . I recall we won more after functions than events.....

It is a great shame things don't remain the same in life . Motorsport has lost many great drivers and administrators far too early in life .The most recent Tony Kilworth . Tony was a unsung hero , the truth is he played the major role in getting the hugely successful North Island RX7 Series off the ground . I enjoyed that series , and my son cut his teeth in the same series some14 years later . So rest in peace Tony job well done .
The roaring season is a great site . Just like stepping back in time . Learn't a heap of stuff .
Hope you are fit and well .
cheers
Gregg

[Rod Grimwood]

Gregg, do you know where the Willis Commodore Sports Sedan went at all. We are trying to trace it and any lead would be handy. Got a photo of the Jones Commodore on hand over day, and thought you guys may know about Bretts old car.

Good to hear from you, and old linemarking still good aye, must have done a couple of k's and used a few litres up by now.

Your team weren't too shoddy at the after match functions at all, especially the infamous tent at Taupo back then.

Cheers

[GREGG TAYLOR]

Hi Habu I believe it was sold to a bloke that lived in TePuke . He lived down the road from me when I had the orchard . It sat in his shed for the nine years I lived there . Just the rolling shell . can't for the life of me remember his name. I will do some research and get back to you . He still had the car in 1996 .

Kind Regards
Gregg

[Rod Grimwood]

Hi Habu I believe it was sold to a bloke that lived in TePuke . He lived down the road from me when I had the orchard . It sat in his shed for the nine years I lived there . Just the rolling shell . can't for the life of me remember his name. I will do some research and get back to you . He still had the car in 1996 .

Kind Regards
Gregg


Thanks Gregg, any info appreciated.

[Rod Grimwood]

A few years back at Manfield

[Grant Sprague]

Hey the plot is thickening , firstly Rod, great pic of Jiggers old car & Gregg,
Gregg , I went to Tony,s funeral was a sad event lots of the locals , friends , car dealers ,plus motor sports officials there supporting the whole family his son Gregg does paint work for me & step son Leigh does pannel, they are no slugs in a car either done very well infact , Tony was one of the old boys with Pete Hanna etc Time marches on , I see your bro had one of the quick pre 65 anglias [& sneekerly sold it] & drove it like a true champion , we were in different circles back then but same events & tents lol ??, I remember the beautiful RX7s you & yr bro drove , no champion ship is easy u deserved them like any one , well done Gregg all the best ................ Grant

[Steve Holmes]

So how about we start a thread on race cars that appear to have vanished from trace. See if we can't track a few of them down.

Here is one I've been trying to learn the fate of for some time, with no luck. I first found out about this car when writing an article for Australian Muscle Car mag a couple of years ago. The reason it grabbed my attention was because it was built in the Wairarapa, in New Zealand, where I moved with my partner Helen a few years ago. While researching various magazines gathering info for the article, I stumbled upon details of this car.

It was built around 1971 by Wayne Fuller, and fitted with an FVA motor reportedly from Paul Faheys Escort. Fuller raced the car in OSCA during the 1971/72 season, and was often the fastest car in the field. At the end of the season Fuller set his sites a little higher, and took the car to Graham Berry (of Berry & Chung hot rodding fame) to have a heap of fabrication work done on the firewall and transmission tunnel, so he could fit a 350ci small block Chevy, with twin off-set Holleys.

This was quite an ambitious project at the time, and appeared to have quite a bit of potential. The newly rebuilt Escort finally debuted at Bay Park in late 1973, driven by 24 year old Roger Brader, another Wairarapa hot shoe. It was very quick in a straight line, as fast as the front running machines of Allan Moffat, Jim Richards, Leo Leonard (in Mustangs), Red Dawson (Camaro), Rod Coppins (Firebird), and Paul Fahey (Capri), but required some development work on suspension and brakes.

Brader and Fuller raced the car at several events throughout the 1973/74 season, but at seasons end Fuller decided to sell it and go boat racing instead. The Escort was sold engineless to Warren Steel in the Hawkes Bay. Steel had planned to fit a smaller Chevy motor to compete in the 4.2 Saloon Car Championship, but failed his eyesight test, and had to sell the car.

It was purchased by John Scott in Auckland, who owned a transport company. This would have been late 1974, or early 1975. From there, the trail goes dead. I'm not sure if the John Scott who purchased the Escort was the same John Scott who raced speedway in the '70s and '80s, but that John Scott did happen to own a transport company, also in Auckland, so perhaps it was the same person. Either way, I've not been able to track him down.

Would love to know what happened to this car, and if it survived. Obviously Escorts were pretty popular during the '70s, and it could have ended up anywhere. Was it converted for ShellSport? Was it scrapped? Was it pushed into someones shed and forgotten about?

Anyway, here is a pic of the car at Levin when it was still fitted with the FVA. It changed little when the Chevy was shoe-horned in, except the wheels became slightly wider. It was silver with a green stripe down each flank, then later had a red or orange stripe.

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Any further leads on this car?

[colinjt]

I witnessed that event. What a field and a great days racing.
Fairlane, in fact. And that Jag doesn't look quite the same as it did after disappearing backwards through the fence at BayPark's Beach hairpin...

[Hart1598]

the Fiat is now owned by Lyndsay Sheard in Tauranga

[Oldfart]

the Fiat is now owned by Lyndsay Sheard in Tauranga

I wonder if people could please put a reference to the car, or the posting which they are talking about? Please :)

[seaqnmac27]

the Fiat is now owned by Lyndsay Sheard in Tauranga

So therefore this is the ex McIntyre Fiat 124.

http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php?Action=VEI&EventCode=1003&EntrantID=14766&ImageID=309212

[Oldfart]

Is this one of these?
Ebay US
1965 Other Makes Sunbeam Imp

NZ vuilt Sunbeam Imp rally race car

I can't figure how to add the listing #. Midmount Datsun 1200

[seaqnmac27]

You mean this one Rhys.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NZ-vuilt-Sunbeam-Imp-rally-race-car-/111182352591?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19e2fc10cf#ht_500wt_1182

[rf84]

The Imp in question was built by Terry Brain here in Havelock North. He used parts from a Valour Formula Ford that he broke up. It was sold to Doug King and then disappeared from Hawkes Bay.

[Oldfart]

Shame that a Valour got used for things like this, but they were only "old race cars".

[rogered]

That answers a few questions. I was looking hard at the VW (or hewland) rear end and uprights and thought it looked a bit formula fordish

[Russ Cunningham]

The Imp in question was built by Terry Brain here in Havelock North. He used parts from a Valour Formula Ford that he broke up. It was sold to Doug King and then disappeared from Hawkes Bay.

Oldfart! Don't worry, the Valour chassis which had never been build up was sold to Doug Algie on the mainland. As far as I'm aware Doug still has it. As for the Imp----who cares.
Russ

[Racer Rog]

Oldfart! Don't worry, the Valour chassis which had never been build up was sold to Doug Algie on the mainland. As far as I'm aware Doug still has it. As for the Imp----who cares.
Russ
Yes Russ, Doug still has it, I have to go down to see him again soon to get a couple more measurements, for the rebuild of my old tart.
Roger

[Russ Cunningham]

Yes Russ, Doug still has it, I have to go down to see him again soon to get a couple more measurements, for the rebuild of my old tart.
Roger

Very disrespectful! I heard you're wife is a lovely lady. Factory jigs & moulds are still here if you'd like to start production again. Convey my regards to Doug please. A nice chap if memory serves me correct.
ps. I still have those uprights, etc.

[beamishnz]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/beamishnz/V8Marina.png (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/beamishnz/media/V8Marina.png.html)
This is the Marina here behind the Chavenger I believe you are talking about,the Bryan Bate Stilleto I am going to write about my part in putting the Mazda engine in it some time in the future

I'm new to this forum but whilst browsing through this awesome thread came across reference to Graeme Parks V8 Marina. Graeme has been hunting it down for some time - he's just found it and and bought it back. It is currently without a motor but he has plans and it will be back on the track in the new year with a Chevy small block :). He is also building a Porsche 944 S2 supercharged rocket ship which should be spectacular!

Great forum btw!

[Allan]

The last I heard or saw of it was in the early 80s when it was owned by Hoss Waswo from New Plymouth. He ran it in a GP meeting and had oil filter problems so came to me as Service Manager for the Torino looking for bearings.
Allan
This post refers to the ex Glenn McIntyre FIAT 124 Coupe

[Bryan]

I'm new to this forum but whilst browsing through this awesome thread came across reference to Graeme Parks V8 Marina. Graeme has been hunting it down for some time - he's just found it and and bought it back. It is currently without a motor but he has plans and it will be back on the track in the new year with a Chevy small block :). He is also building a Porsche 944 S2 supercharged rocket ship which should be spectacular!

Great forum btw!
When will the car be back on track? Really looking forward to seeing it in action.:cool: Might even spur me to pull finger on restoring my Marina TC Coupe (rarer than an unmolested Escort:p)

[Steve Holmes]

David Blanch at Autopics recently sent me this photo in the hope I could provide some info on it. This is the Wayne Fuller owned Escort OSCA racer with small block Chevy V8. Roger Brader drove it when it had the Chevy motor. This is the car that started this thread! I still haven't managed to find out what happened to it. Would love to know.

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[rf84]

Talking of old Escorts-where is the ex Bryan Blackberry/Ken Sager car "Fristy"?

[Habu]

Talking of old Escorts-where is the ex Bryan Blackberry/Ken Sager car "Fristy"?

Hi rf84 - I also posted in the other thread that asked about this car. It might be the car / shell Chris Kitzen owns?

[Chris Kitzen]

Hi rf84 - I also posted in the other thread that asked about this car. It might be the car / shell Chris Kitzen owns?

nah not my car. I replied on the other thread as well.

[Habu]

nah not my car. I replied on the other thread as well.

Apologies - thought your car was rhd at some stage and got confused. Any progress?
Cheers Habu

[Chris Kitzen]

Apologies - thought your car was rhd at some stage and got confused. Any progress?
Cheers Habu

All good. No not much progress but have a few more parts. Too many projects that I need to clear out of the way first including a new shed to do it. It's the one I want to complete most but is the most work.......and cost!

[Steve Holmes]

OK, heres another one. In late 1986 or early 1987, Kieran Wills appeared with a Group A Nissan Skyline DR30. I vaguely remember it running at the (January) 1987 Wellington Street Race. It was painted up in a similar scheme to the factory Peter Jackson cars run in Australia, but in place of the blue paint, it was (I think) red. It might have have yellow wheels. It was later repainted blue at the front and white at the back. The car didn't seem to have raced much, and vanished as quickly as it appeared. Does anyone know its history, and what happened to it?

[Powder]

OK, heres another one. In late 1986 or early 1987, Kieran Wills appeared with a Group A Nissan Skyline DR30. I vaguely remember it running at the (January) 1987 Wellington Street Race. It was painted up in a similar scheme to the factory Peter Jackson cars run in Australia, but in place of the blue paint, it was (I think) red. It might have have yellow wheels. It was later repainted blue at the front and white at the back. The car didn't seem to have raced much, and vanished as quickly as it appeared. Does anyone know its history, and what happened to it?

Contemporary reports say the car was "written off" after a crash during qualifying for the Oct '87 Wellington Street Race.
Here's a 'before' photo from that weekend that my father took:

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[Steve Holmes]

Wow, brilliant! You guys never cease to amaze me. Thanks heaps for this.

[rt6pack]

Sometime in the early 90's I rang a guy in the lower north island who had a Skyline Dr30 advertised, he told me the car had a white bootlid on it from the racecar that was written off. I might be wrong but I think he said it had "sleepyhead" on it

[Steve Holmes]

Sometime in the early 90's I rang a guy in the lower north island who had a Skyline Dr30 advertised, he told me the car had a white bootlid on it from the racecar that was written off. I might be wrong but I think he said it had "sleepyhead" on it

Didn't Kent Baigent and Graeme Bowkett run a couple of DR30 Skylines with Sleepyhead signage? I'd actually completely forgotten about those cars. Wonder where they got to?

[Grant Sprague]

Good point Steve. not sure .. but know where one of the old capris are that he brought into NZ from UK ..'''' Skyline ..... they seemed quick & were ..... Croz [Graham ] &Gary [brother]were invited to drive their 2nd car at Wellington ..... Croz & Gary teamed up in the 2nd car I am 99% sure that year they were first Kiwis home . that yr ......... never meet Croz but would like too ..Am friends with locals Craig Coleman & Richard Scott in Tauranga [Bikers & quick on 4 wheels] ..we have shared some fantastic stories ........ ps do u need a hand re those piks

[spinner32]

Didn't Kent Baigent and Graeme Bowkett run a couple of DR30 Skylines with Sleepyhead signage? I'd actually completely forgotten about those cars. Wonder where they got to?

didn't the Windleburns own them?

[conrod]

didn't the Windleburns own them?
yep they still own both:)

[stirlingmac]

And the Henley /Wills Skyline is still safely tucked away in Wellington...

[rt6pack]

And the Henley /Wills Skyline is still safely tucked away in Wellington...

That's great so did it do any more events after 1987 Wellington?
Nice to know that the Sleepyhead cars are still alive as well, were they built in NZ or Aust?

[rogered]

Contemporary reports say the car was "written off" after a crash during qualifying for the Oct '87 Wellington Street Race.
Here's a 'before' photo from that weekend that my father took:

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the commodore beside it started life as graeme bowketts roadways sleepyhead car

[Powder]

the commodore beside it started life as graeme bowketts roadways sleepyhead car

We had a thread on this Commodore a couple of years ago. Post #3 has a better photo :)
http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?371-Wanted-Group-A-Commodore-NZ-History-Bowkett-Billington-Barrow

[seaqnmac27]

That's great so did it do any more events after 1987 Wellington?
Nice to know that the Sleepyhead cars are still alive as well, were they built in NZ or Aust?

The Sleepyhead Nissans were actually entered as Team Nissan Racing New Zealand and had this very unfortunate end to the 1987 Bathurst


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTsqf6roxEY

[Truenotch]

Does anyone recognise this 2 door Avenger? The story goes that it was originally brought into the country by an englishman to do the international rally. It has/had a whole pile of works/UK bits - 4.4:1 LSD, hot ~1700cc motor, quick rack, fancy shocks and springs, UK spec bolt-in cage, Avenger tiger rear wing mould etc.

Unfortunately it was left under a cover in a paddock for too many years and trapped moisture has killed the body... Almost every panel is falling off and there's not much structure left. Although the guy who's stripping it knows where another 2 door shell is, so there could be a replica/rebuild coming.

It would be awesome to see old pictures of this car. All I know is that it was run as a rally car and eventually became a circuit car - possibly running in Shellsport or SS2000?

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[mark powell]

Does anyone recognise this 2 door Avenger? The story goes that it was originally brought into the country by an englishman to do the international rally. It has/had a whole pile of works/UK bits - 4.4:1 LSD, hot ~1700cc motor, quick rack, fancy shocks and springs, UK spec bolt-in cage, Avenger tiger rear wing mould etc.

Unfortunately it was left under a cover in a paddock for too many years and trapped moisture has killed the body... Almost every panel is falling off and there's not much structure left. Although the guy who's stripping it knows where another 2 door shell is, so there could be a replica/rebuild coming.

It would be awesome to see old pictures of this car. All I know is that it was run as a rally car and eventually became a circuit car - possibly running in Shellsport or SS2000?

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Car was raced by Mike Istead and Ross Walker mostly at puke club and bay park , UK factory car run by Andrew Cowan

[mark powell]

The 635 might be the ex state coal car of Charlie Obrien , then owned by Grant Bradly ?

[Steve Holmes]

Does anyone recognise this 2 door Avenger? The story goes that it was originally brought into the country by an englishman to do the international rally. It has/had a whole pile of works/UK bits - 4.4:1 LSD, hot ~1700cc motor, quick rack, fancy shocks and springs, UK spec bolt-in cage, Avenger tiger rear wing mould etc.

Unfortunately it was left under a cover in a paddock for too many years and trapped moisture has killed the body... Almost every panel is falling off and there's not much structure left. Although the guy who's stripping it knows where another 2 door shell is, so there could be a replica/rebuild coming.

It would be awesome to see old pictures of this car. All I know is that it was run as a rally car and eventually became a circuit car - possibly running in Shellsport or SS2000?

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Wow!

[John McKechnie]

It you rebody this, it will only be a replica.
Restore this , and its value will be the genuine car..
Those of us who have gone to the trouble of retaining the original body will say its worth every dollar to say- yes, its THE car, had some rust, but we went to the trouble of removing the rust.
Bonnet, bottom of doors and rear quarter look the worst.

[Rod Grimwood]

It you rebody this, it will only be a replica.
Restore this , and its value will be the genuine car..
Those of us who have gone to the trouble of retaining the original body will say its worth every dollar to say- yes, its THE car, had some rust, but we went to the trouble of removing the rust.
Bonnet, bottom of doors and rear quarter look the worst.


Right John. big job but with that history it speaks for it's self. a few what now would be 'classics' cars ended up in different states of racing back then, young bros, Chevette had different start to life and he did a couple rally sprints before chopping her up for circuit.

[Spgeti]

That is one very rare Avenger.

[Oldfart]

Geoff Burrows in Hamilton is the guru for Avengers.
Is this the car which Mike Vincent had? If the car is the car which Mike had it was not a Cowan car.
The Cowan car went back to the UK if it ever car came to NZ
Only 5(?) 2 door cars came to NZ originally.