New Zealand Historic Muscle Cars Under HRC

[ERC]

You have to ask what promotion they are doing for these series as I saw none (and I keep my eye out for these things).Just sayin'...
It depends what you mean by promotion. Do you mean the meeting or the individual series?

The NZFMR has a superb billboard on the motorway at Ellerslie, featuring a F5000. They are expecting up to 55 F5000 cars. What else needs promoting?!!! They are also getting decent press coverage in the magazines and even Granny Herald, not to mention TV3's Sunday afternoons.

If you mean the Historic Muscle Cars, Historic Special Saloons, ERC European Classics (AES & Arrow Wheels) , all three are effectively run by well meaning volunteers on virtually zero budgets. The same probably goes to most others, but apart from websites (which still have to be paid for) and Facebook pages, (free), what else do you suggest and who would benefit? As it is, we probably spend far too many hours a week working on those series (don't ask just how many emails and queries and phone calls I have had to deal with this week, not just regarding the Festival but also tomorrow's TACCOC meeting).

All three of those series are attracting healthy support from drivers, which is the number one consideration.

[Kiwiboss]

It depends what you mean by promotion. Do you mean the meeting or the individual series?

The NZFMR has a superb billboard on the motorway at Ellerslie, featuring a F5000. They are expecting up to 55 F5000 cars. What else needs promoting?!!! They are also getting decent press coverage in the magazines and even Granny Herald, not to mention TV3's Sunday afternoons.

If you mean the Historic Muscle Cars, Historic Special Saloons, ERC European Classics (AES & Arrow Wheels) , all three are effectively run by well meaning volunteers on virtually zero budgets. The same probably goes to most others, but apart from websites (which still have to be paid for) and Facebook pages, (free), what else do you suggest and who would benefit? As it is, we probably spend far too many hours a week working on those series (don't ask just how many emails and queries and phone calls I have had to deal with this week, not just regarding the Festival but also tomorrow's TACCOC meeting).

All three of those series are attracting healthy support from drivers, which is the number one consideration.

GEEZ Ray, you took the words outta my mouth!! know that's scary!! LOL i luv the "Zero Budget" ain't that the truth :)

Also its been pointed out to me that peoples lives are so much more busier with so much more to do on a daily basis and we're constantly bombarded with advertising like never before with products we never knew one could own, sometimes the brain just overloads, but really i think we've seen the heyday of huge crowds of the 60's and 70's and i doubt that will ever come again!! just look at air travel as once it was a mission and now its like catching a bus!! for the sake of the festival i'd like to see a reasonable crowd to help pay the bills for the effort Jim, Chris, Tony(and others) have put in!! and as this event is shaping up to be pretty hard to beat so lets all make the most of it.

Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

You couldn't get a more "Historic" car than Dean and Desirae Cameron's 65 Mustang, owned in the past by forum members John McKechnie and myself this fantastic little mustang has "BayPark" race history stamped in its logbook and was in Pre 65 racing in the early days when they were actual cars that got driven to the track, raced and driven home afterwards. Dean was one of the first guys to hold his hand up for HMC only having to refit his 15" wheels, the car has a MSNZ COD and is HMC compliant and will be at the Festival next month. Dean also proves that one can go racing on a budget and a ton of fun at the same time, he also has a 67 Mustang coupe as a HMC project that one day hopefully we'll see there son Kim driving, a real family affair!!

[Kiwiboss]

HMC organisers have just been given approval for a Pace Car convertible to lead our group out onto the track before every race, attached is a picture of this been done in the era and as we are having rolling starts this should fit in well as apart of the "display" that HMC and Australian Trans am will put on.

Take note that there are approx 24 US Trans Am race cars in this picture and we have 28 entries so it will look spectacular.

Let the fun begin

Dale M

PS: Photo courtesy of Jon Mello, CA, USA and the CRG Trans-Am forum

[Rod Grimwood]

That's going to look/sound unreal, awesome job being done by you people.

[Kiwiboss]

Steve Elliott has entered his 68 Camaro, an American A-Sedan race car since 1974 this car is dripping in race history, we are lucky to have this Camaro in New Zealand and racing in HMC as it truly represents what this class is about. Originally fitted with a 302 chevy Steve has just fitted a 383 small block for a bit more grunt, 4 speed Tex 101/T10, 12 bolt diff, 15X8 wheels and Hoosier tyres, car only required door class and bumpers to comply when imported and has a MSNZ COD.

[Kiwiboss]

Owned by myself and Mike Coory the 70 Mustang PDL Replica will be driven by Tony Roberts until a new owner is found. Originally an open track race car in northern California its fitted with a 400HP 351 Cleveland engine, 4 speed Toploader gearbox, 9inch diff, Wilwood brakes, 15X9 Minilites with Hoosier tyres and a host of other goodies, car is fully compliant with a MSNZ COD, see Tony man handle this beast around Hampton January 17/18 and 24/25.

[Kiwiboss]

HMC had a twilight test session at Hampton last night, pretty good turn out and got lucky with the weather, we had Roger Williams 69 Camaro, Murray Brown 70 Camaro, Brett Pearce 68 Monaro, John McKechnie XA falcon, Nigel MacDonald 67 Mustang, Pete Stevenson 65 Mustang, myself 69 Mustang, all went well with generally no problems. Was also great to chat to a few other racers who are looking hard at HMC as a class for them, quite interesting really. Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

And a few more pics.

[John McKechnie]

It was fantastic weather conditions out there for all who made the decision to forget thunder and lightning just the day before..
Glad I was one of them, even though it was raining at home as I was leaving.

[ERC]

Pity you didn't let us know as I might have popped down to take some pics now I have dried out from Sunday!

[DewiAusTransAm]

Over the past three days, 8 Australian Trans-Am cars have been loaded at the Port of Brisbane ahead of the Christmas Day departure of the ship taking them to the New Zealand Festival of Motor Racing at Hampton Downs. We can't wait!!

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[Steve Holmes]

This is the latest HMC poster I recently put together, using Terry Marshall photos, which Dale will have available for punters at the Festival in January. The main portrait image of Red in the Monza is one of my all-time favourites.

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[Kiwiboss]

HMC racer John Sampson has entered the Festival in his beautiful 71 Capri V6, John has been racing this Capri for 17 years and has never modified it beyond what it should be, no modernised components to improve its performance. When HMC first started Johns Capri fitted without any modifications required and he jumped at the chance to race with proper period correct cars, its was compliant rite out of the box and has a MSNZ COD. Lets face it, the V6 Capri certainly has major motorsport history in this country doesn't it and look at these two "Capri Legends together" awesome. He will be one of 3 Capris racing with HMC in 2 weeks time.

[Kiwiboss]

Keeping it in the family is Scott and Gareth Sampson's 70 Capri V6, featuring all the V6 performance know-how from father John the two boys will be out to see if they can beat dad at the Festival, but all in the spirit of HMC though. Scott and Gareth have joint driving duty's one each per weekend. Come out to Hampton Downs, Festival of Motor Racing, Jan 16 to 24th and watch the battle of the Capris. Once again a fully compliant HMC car with MSNZ COD.

[nzeder]

Really fully compliant? Are you 100% sure about that? I was under the impression that a Carpi was only ever factory fitted with a 4 speed manual box. Ford (UK) did not introduce a 5speed until 1982 with the release of the Sierra which is post 78 and outside the Mark I Capri production range which is 1969-1974.

[Paul Wilkinson]

Really fully compliant? Are you 100% sure about that? I was under the impression that a Carpi was only ever factory fitted with a 4 speed manual box. Ford (UK) did not introduce a 5speed until 1982 with the release of the Sierra which is post 78 and outside the Mark I Capri production range which is 1969-1974.

I think they got the 5-speed with the 2.8 injected model circa '81.

[nzeder]

I think they got the 5-speed with the 2.8 injected model circa '81.yep that is my understanding too the Mark iii which is like comparing a 66 mustang to a 86 mustang. Sure still a mustang but different chassic, body, specs. However there are some marques of cars that did span a large era with only minor changes mainly under the skin aka Datsun 240z, 260z and US spec 280z all S30 chassic from 69-78 there are 6 different bodies I have seen in these Datsun Z cars mainly around chassis rails, tunnel, diff mounting etc minor improvements in design or safety requirements. Also a Austin/morris/rover mini is basically unchanged from 1959 to 2000 again changes for safety or under skin improvements but basically same suspension, brakes, engine configurations throughout that range.

That can't be said about the carpi a Mark iii is very different in look and specs to the mark i.

If you have a set of rules you should stick to them and not make a rule and skip it for x and enforce the rule for y.

[John McKechnie]

Yep, its like saying YB Cosworth engines were standard on all MK1 Escorts.

[cooper64]

yep that is my understanding too the Mark iii which is like comparing a 66 mustang to a 86 mustang. Sure still a mustang but different chassic, body, specs. However there are some marques of cars that did span a large era with only minor changes mainly under the skin aka Datsun 240z, 260z and US spec 280z all S30 chassic from 69-78 there are 6 different bodies I have seen in these Datsun Z cars mainly around chassis rails, tunnel, diff mounting etc minor improvements in design or safety requirements. Also a Austin/morris/rover mini is basically unchanged from 1959 to 2000 again changes for safety or under skin improvements but basically same suspension, brakes, engine configurations throughout that range.

That can't be said about the carpi a Mark iii is very different in look and specs to the mark i.

If you have a set of rules you should stick to them and not make a rule and skip it for x and enforce the rule for y.

agree with above, but the mini has about 140 different models as will, not counting south African models , from 1959 to 2000 mk1 mini is different to mk6 mini

[ERC]

Yep, its like saying YB Cosworth engines were standard on all MK1 Escorts.
...and crossflow heads were standard on 1950cc Wolseley 1500s and Minis.

We shouldn't confuse standard with period, or with legitimate run ons - if the rules allow it.

Once again, we have to be careful that an over reliance on rules doesn't overshadow the 'chocolate fish' and camaraderie. Of all the people involved in classic racing, the Sampsons would be one of the families who epitomise what it is all about. However, if you have tight rules, then you have to enforce them.

[Jac Mac]

Imagine how fast those Capri's would be with a HD Siamese bore block & stroker crank, they could go out close to 4.2 liters (255 cu in ) in that form, those mods seem to be quite acceptable for HMC.... wouldn't even need a fifth gear!

[nzeder]

However, if you have tight rules, then you have to enforce them.And a very good point. If done in period with proof why not. Or even if it could have been done why not (ie V8 rover into a MG Magnette could have been done so why not today?)

Having said why not a YB into an Escort? It just needs to be classified correctly 86 vintage engine so if under T&C rules cars needs to be classified as 86 era and rules applied if T&C is your guide/rules.

Now this is why ERC series works well as the handicaps are used as the performance leveler.

If you have rules and are trying to enforce them I tip my hat to you but then enforce them and not one set for X and another set for Y. But I see we are not alone in NZ with these issues it is an issue in all forms of motorsport it seems. Always has been and always will be, as it was as it should be :)

[Frosty5]

Hi HMC & HSC racers, only 8 more sleeps before Hampton Downs starts shaking again. As I have not received any COD's from you I assume you all have one and will be bringing it to the Festival. Assumption can be a risky thing however, the register we are building will eventually have every HMC & HSC COD held in it. As indicated in my Auditors report I will collect yours at the Festival, scan it and courier it back to you - guaranteed. Also ensure it has the RED MSNZ stamp on each page, if not your COD is not valid. Please make yourself known to me so we can put faces to names and discuss where you are at - car and COD wise.
Cheers
Dave Graham
MSNZ COD Auditor
Licence # 23013

[John McKechnie]

Dave- you have already previously made a copy of my COD, do you still need me to bring it out anyway?

[Frosty5]

Dave- you have already previously made a copy of my COD, do you still need me to bring it out anyway?

Hi John, as long as there are no variations to your car from when you submitted your COD then you're cool. I shall take it as read that your COD and car is kosha.

Cheers Dave

[John McKechnie]

Dave- I have changed a tandem master cylinder to twin single cylinders- how much of a spanner in the works is this?
Tyres are now Hoosiers.

[Frosty5]

Dave- I have changed a tandem master cylinder to twin single cylinders- how much of a spanner in the works is this?
Tyres are now Hoosiers.

John, have PM'd you

[Kiwiboss]

HMC Invercargill racer Colin Dawson shipped his 68 Camaro up to Tauranga earlier in the week for some minor work, he’s hot keen to be at the Festival and will be his first time at this track. Since purchasing the Ex Allingham Camaro which was already HMC compliant, he has since removed the 427 big block engine and fitted a Roy MacDonald built all iron 377 SB engine making about 630HP, and Jerico 4 speed gear box, still retains its 12 bolt diff but just had a tru trac fitted. See ex speedway/sports sedan racer Colin Dawson pedal this Camaro around Hampton for the first time on January 16th to the 25th.

[John McKechnie]

Thats one neat piece of kit that the car travels in.

[kiwi285]

That is a grouse looking car Colin and will be interesting to see it on track with the rest of the class.

[crunch]

Hi John, as long as there are no variations to your car from when you submitted your COD then you're cool. I shall take it as read that your COD and car is kosha.

Cheers Dave


You must have your COD with you at all times. It is like a logbook and a Licence.

[Steve Holmes]

That Camaro looks great!

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks to Media77 for this awesome piece of incar video inside Steve Elliott's '68 Camaro HMC car, which was out testing this weekend at Hampton Downs for the first time with its new motor and gearbox. Steve's enjoying the extra neddies! Sounds wicked, don't you think!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq14JpKAjwc

[Kiwiboss]

Thanks to Media77 for this awesome piece of incar video inside Steve Elliott's '68 Camaro HMC car, which was out testing this weekend at Hampton Downs for the first time with its new motor and gearbox. Steve's enjoying the extra neddies! Sounds wicked, don't you think!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq14JpKAjwc

WOW, so THATS what 800HP sounds like!!!!

Im gonna run and hide next weekend :)

Dale M

[Jac Mac]

Well, looks like all that Rubbings not Racing crap has finally been kicked to the curb!!

[John McKechnie]

Jac Mac-I was on pole today leading off the last race for HMC.
, There was no rubbing, only racing,no pushing me around or showing any impatience with a lesser experience pole sitter. Highly recommend all those with me. Will be posting video on youtube.

[Jac Mac]

Jac Mac-I was on pole today leading off the last race for HMC.
, There was no rubbing, only racing,no pushing me around or showing any impatience with a lesser experience pole sitter. Highly recommend all those with me. Will be posting video on youtube.
Or perhaps you were just lucky that the red car was a DNS in that race..... Steve Ritchie takes good pics!

[Paul Wilkinson]

Looks like he lost the rear, overcorrected, had a bit of a tank-slapper and hit the orange Mustang.
To be fair it doesn't necessarily mean an attitude of pushing people around or driving recklessly, sometimes shit happens. Of course, I wasn't there - my leave pass was issued for next weekend. Here's hoping the weather holds and the attrition rate isn't too high!

[AMCO72]

Jac Mac.......have sent you a PM.

[AMCO72]

I think the most outstanding drive of the weekend was Howard Woods 1:14.6 lap. [source Mylaps] I presume it was done with the BMW Alpina. Thats about 2 seconds faster than any previous run. Slow down Howard or you will leave us in the dust.

[kiwi285]

Unfortunately Howard had a coming together with a Commodore and the right front is now munted. Not the best way to finish a weekends racing.

Yes Howard is a great driver and punches above his weight.

[PhotoSmith]

A Few random photos from Saturday...........

[John McKechnie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxu_mCIHptQ
This is Sunday morning race, afternoon race didnt record as camera was too full.
To those who like viewing rear ends of Mustangs its an 11 minute wait viewing Camaro tails.
See what the view is next weekend.
As usual an amateur video with camera attached to window, interior certainly looks low tech 70s , nothing exciting happening but cooler in the car than out in the sun.
Crew told me off for not being closer at the beginning

[Rod Grimwood]

Gee Jac, you must be right on the top of Mt Cook to able to see that far. Yep there were some touchs and accidents, in my view (and this only my view) I saw 3 and 1 was unlucky to collect another car when a bit of over correction came into play, (which happens) and weather the car is red, blue, white or any colour it was not a dangerous/aggressive move that caused it, just as they say á racing incident'. But the other 2 were from poking the car inside were it was not needed, (which happens unfortunately, but should not) This can be addressed by the guys, and should/will be i would say as they know better.

[Jac Mac]

Gee Jac, you must be right on the top of Mt Cook to able to see that far. Yep there were some touchs and accidents, in my view (and this only my view) I saw 3 and 1 was unlucky to collect another car when a bit of over correction came into play, (which happens) and weather the car is red, blue, white or any colour it was not a dangerous/aggressive move that caused it, just as they say á racing incident'. But the other 2 were from poking the car inside were it was not needed, (which happens unfortunately, but should not) This can be addressed by the guys, and should/will be i would say as they know better.

It helps if you use both eyes Rod :) .

[George Sheweiry]

I was lucky enough to be invited to watch the racing on Sunday from one of the apartments and I have to say that Dale has cracked it with this class. He very cleverly organised a "formation lap" behind a convertible sporting the Aussie and NZ flags which I think gave a good show of camaraderie and appreciation for our Aussie mates who took on the enormous task and cost to bring their cars over here. Boy what an awesome line up of cars. Its just a shame that Dales old chariot was in the wars and was missing from the grid. To me not being a single seater fan this class was by far the highlight of the day, a great array of cars and colors and he arranged all this in the middle of the not so small task of moving premises. There are not many people who would take on this level of commitment and succeed like he has done. Well done Dale.

[GD66]

Hear hear, well said George, the lad's chock full of passion for the category and with enthusiastic participants on both sides of the Tasman, it's got success written all over it.

[Murray Maunder]

Yep, it looks like HMC is around to stay - for at least the foreseeable future. I got to talk with some of the Aussie TransAm guys on Saturday and things are rebuilding nicely there too (41 cars on their books according to one of their leading lights). With this TransTasman camaraderie as opposed to rivalry or hostility, the biannual challenge is just a HUGE success for the competitors and the fans. I don't know how many Kiwis Dale has signed up for this September's big go in QLD, which I believe may extend to Musclecar Masters, but the categories just seem to be thriving individually and collectively. I think that comes down to ATTITUDE. The attitude that winning isn't everything but having a nicely prepared, period correct car which is distinctive and enjoying the event is the name of the game.

Race 2 on Saturday was unfortunately one of those motor racing things and you always have to expect them to happen sometimes, hopefully not often. The good thing is 3 beautiful cars can be fixed and be seen racing again as good as ever in a few months time. The armchair assassins will I'm sure be proven wrong over the coming seasons as we see HMC/ATA thrive as a group and as separate groups.

Finally, great to see the new guys to the HMC group perform so well with such spectacularly well presented cars. Roger's American Airlines tribute Camaro was quick out of the crate late last year and Dave Sturrock's Gulf Camaro proved similarly competitive and well driven. The Cuda in AAR tribute livery was just a fabulous work of passion and good to see it circulate in Keith's hands in fine style. These 3 and others who have joined the fray proved the class is definitely on the up. The strict enforcement of the rules are long term effective.

[Steve Holmes]

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[John McKechnie]

#1303- John Samios sitting in his blue 1969 Mustang number 10. We raced, we talked Avacardos , Cheese from Eltham and radial Pratt and Whitney WW2 engines... memorable.
John English-14, damaged his sump, showed me some neat overtaking moves
Anthony Tenkate- green Mustang- had a mighty loop all by himself-in the last race sideways on the ripple strip off turn 1, no serious damage, and rejoined. Woody took excellent evasive action .My crew caught it on video and made their day looking at it at prizegiving.
Alwyn Bishop-68- well deserved "best all rounder award" for the class.He absolutely couldnt believe it when it was announced and told he could keep the trophy.
Anthony and Alwyn showing me a new use of the zip on racing overalls- cunning Dewi got it on video.
Pete Stevenson very sympathetic on my health-" If God wanted you to touch your toes, he'd have put them on your knees"
Great bunch of guys, really had a ball running with Shane Cowham, Shane Wilson , John Samios and Alwyn, though in one race Alwyn gave his car to John English, I wondered how the old fella suddenly had picked up the pace.
Twas a shame Mike Kings Mustang didnt last the distance. while Shane Wilsons Mustang lasted the distance this time.
Got in car videos and am sending them on for their memory.

[John McKechnie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkrg38wj3Ik

Sunday morning, I started toward the back.
Steve Elliott was on pole and with his magic starts he was odds on to take it,
Unfortunately ,as you can see, his car stranded between turn 3 and 4 the man upstairs said - another day Steve,its tough. Anthony Tenkate had his turn at winning this one.
I am running with Shane Wilson- ex kiwi from Wellington, after that its John English in Alwyn Bishops car

[Steve Holmes]

I would like to say a huge thanks to all the Historic Muscle Cars and Australian Trans-Am racers who wore our Muscle Car Digital Magazine stickers on their cars at the 2015 NZFMR. We really appreciate the gesture.

I'd also like to say a huge thanks to Steve Elliott for printing the stickers up and handing them out to the HMC/ATA guys. You're awesome Steve, and a true friend.

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[John McKechnie]

A comparison of the fastest lap times-

Ferrari 2014- Dale Mathers.........1:13.976
Ganley 2015- Roger Williams......1:13.506

[DewiAusTransAm]

Thanks to everyone involved with HMC for making us Aussies feel so welcome at the Festival over both weekends. I was flat out getting everything ready to leave Sunday afternoon that I didn't have much of a chance to go around to many of you. If you have any footage from Races 8 or 9 (Sunday, Weekend 2) and would like to be seen n the TV3 highlights show, could you please email me at dj0110@live.com.au to discuss further.
I will post some photos/wrap-up etc soon but I still have plenty of work to do in the meantime.
Cheers
Dewi Jones
Australian Trans-Am

[TonyG]

What! You mean you haven't finished yet Dewi. Get a move on man lol. :)
Can't wait to see the rest of what you have. Any chance we will see any coverage on TV over here?
Cheers
Tony

[nigel watts]

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[Steve Holmes]

This is cool! Put together by Dewi Jones:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3e6CTDXAaE&feature=youtu.be

[John McKechnie]

A comparison of the fastest lap times-

Ferrari 2014- Dale Mathers.........1:13.976
Ganley 2015- Roger Williams......1:13.506

Denny Hulme 2013 -
John English.........1:12.967.
Ian Woodward.....1:13.053
Dale Mathers.......1;13.586.
Kevin Gimblett.....1:13.617
Must have been a faster track in 2013

[DewiAusTransAm]

Nigel MacDonald is famous!! Inside this week's Auto Action in Aus.
Week 2 coverage will be in next week's edition.
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[John McKechnie]

Race 52 - Historic Muscle Cars - 25 January 2015 - on my youtube channel:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JySOPduFfIA

Scotty was on turn 2 with his camera, got Anthony Tenkate doing a magnificent lose right in front of Woody-

[Steve Holmes]

Check this out guys. A brilliant video put together by Dewi Jones of the Historic Muscle Car/Australian Trans-Am action at the first weekend of the 2015 NZFMR. Its about 15 minutes long, and includes racing and driver interviews. Its an excellent job. Turn the sound up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSddBgZ5orE

[Murray Maunder]

Nice one Dewi (and Awyn). You certainly covered the ground over the first 3 days and picke up some lovely angles and captured the spirit of ATA v HMC.

[DewiAusTransAm]

Thanks a lot Murray, we hope that we covered both the on and off track action, as both are just as important as each other.
Week 2 highlights here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgLRt7Lq0mE&feature=youtu.be

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That's the last from weekend 1

[Kiwiboss]

Hi All, really been behind the 8 ball recently with my recent workshop move which im slowly sorting(no thanks to Telecom or Spark as they call themselves) as soon as I get a chance i'll get a newsletter out but our next event is the Legends, March 28/29th at Hampton so aim for that, we will run with the HSC group. The feedback from the Festival has been huge, 10 PH calls the day after(just what I needed, LOL) and certainly our alignment with Australian Trans Am is working with great parity between both groups. We still have issues to sort and one was too many on track incidents(including myself) but some of it was just stupid stuff(including myself) but we'll work though these one at a time!! Certainly it was "brain overload" for myself as I had other class's asking for help and a few HSC guys not happy they didn't have a class at the Festival(or racing with us) but can't be all to everyone.

As apart of our bi-annual ATA/HMC agreement we will once again be travelling to Australia to race later this year, looking likely we'll once again have 8 cars taking this trip but others are welcome. First event will be the Lakeside Historics, Brisbane late July and the Muscle car Master at Eastern Creek, Sydney fathers day early September, more to come about this!!

The out come from a general group meeting at the Festival is we will form a "Drivers Committee" to help organise and run HMC, the plan is form HMC nation wide to take in the south Island, we will be directly aligned with the Historic and Classic Commission side of MSNZ, their COD system is working for us and its now mandatory to have one. Once again more to come on this but if anyone that understands historic saloon car racing and wants to get involved please contact myself, Steve H, Tony R or Steve Elliott.

Dale M

[Steve Holmes]

HMC racer Steve Elliott found this one on Craigslist. Obviously it'll need some changes made to comply, and some $$$$ spent, but as a good entry level car, you won't find much cheaper: https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/4914737288.html

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[Kiwiboss]

HMC racer Steve Elliott found this one on Craigslist. Obviously it'll need some changes made to comply, and some $$$$ spent, but as a good entry level car, you won't find much cheaper: https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/4914737288.html

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This race car is a hell-off a deal at $19500USD, infact I doubt its still available(but please check) I see this Mustang is on the east coast in Connecticut(probably under 6 foot of snow at the moment), I have good contacts with the owner of Cobra Automotive so if anyone is keen here in NZ I can help hook them up.

Dale M

[Rod Grimwood]

Dale and all the HMC Guy's and Gal's, a great show at the Festival and impressive display of beautiful well presented historic muscle. (cars not the guy's). You have a great thing going, and along with the Aussie's you have it working. Pity about some of the damage, but this doe's/can happen, and I hurt as much as you guy's seeing it.
Keep up the great work team.

[fullnoise68]

This race car is a hell-off a deal at $19500USD, infact I doubt its still available(but please check) I see this Mustang is on the east coast in Connecticut(probably under 6 foot of snow at the moment), I have good contacts with the owner of Cobra Automotive so if anyone is keen here in NZ I can help hook them up.

Dale M

According to my US sources - not tomato sauces - this Mustang has been sold to a skidder in Finland. There was also another Camaro like mine sold to Europe very recently where the seller offered the Camaro for one price, and each individual accompanying log book for another, per book. The log books have no value if you are just going to run the car in a Mickey Duck anything goes class, but they create a lot of value if you run in a proper `historic' type class anywhere in the world .....

[Kiwiboss]

According to my US sources - not tomato sauces - this Mustang has been sold to a skidder in Finland. There was also another Camaro like mine sold to Europe very recently where the seller offered the Camaro for one price, and each individual accompanying log book for another, per book. The log books have no value if you are just going to run the car in a Mickey Duck anything goes class, but they create a lot of value if you run in a proper `historic' type class anywhere in the world .....

Its amazing Steve the amount of historic American saloons going to Europe as historic racing is having huge growth currently over their, we are lucky though our various USA contacts to have down here what we do but it won't get any easier in the future!!

Rod(Grimwood) thanks for the kind words, growing pains I tell you!! but atleast people are getting the essence of what we're about. one thing I've noticed is the amount of "no show gunnas" out there but I guess thats always been in NZ motorsport, oh well!! will press on with those that actually want to do it!! Life is GOOD

A few of us went down to Christchurch on Wednesday for a reasonably successful meeting with those on the mainland that are keen to see HMC and HSC in that part of the country, time will tell.

Dale M

[Steve Holmes]

According to my US sources - not tomato sauces - this Mustang has been sold to a skidder in Finland. There was also another Camaro like mine sold to Europe very recently where the seller offered the Camaro for one price, and each individual accompanying log book for another, per book. The log books have no value if you are just going to run the car in a Mickey Duck anything goes class, but they create a lot of value if you run in a proper `historic' type class anywhere in the world .....

Thats a good point Steve, the value of an old race car is often dictated by its racing history. A factory built race car will invariably command greater value than one built by a privateer team, but among the privateer teams, its the races the cars contested that bring about their values. Eg, in US sedan racing during the late 1960s through early '70s, SCCA A/Sedan rules covered everything from regional races and championships through to the high-profile Trans-Am series. If a car raced in the Trans-Am series, that makes it eligible to now race with the Historic Trans-Am group, which ultimately adds a premium to its value, even if it only ever contested 2 Trans-Am races in period, and finished last.

The Trans-Am fields were mostly made up of local privateer teams who just ran with the Trans-Am when it came to town, to try and win a few bucks prize money. So that privateer team might have contested regional A/Sedan events against similar local cars, but if that privateer team then entered their A/Sedan in a Trans-Am race, then that car now will likely have a much greater value than similar local privateer cars that didn't contest any Trans-Am races.

[Kiwiboss]

HMC racers, I've just had conformation of all 3 Australian events in which HMC will race with Australian Trans Am this year, here are the dates and anyone is welcome to attend.

1 - Shannon Days of Thunder, Queensland Raceway, June 20/21st, 2015
2 - The Lakeside Classic, Lakeside Brisbane, July 25/6th, 2015
3 - Muscle Car Masters, Eastern Creek, Sydney, September 5/6th, 2015

HMC entrants we have to date(unconfirmed):

1 - Dale Mathers, 69 Mustang
2 - Murray Brown, 70 Camaro
3 - Kevin Gimblett, 67 Camaro
4 - Rodger Cunninghame, 65 Mustang
5 - Glenn Allingham, 68 Camaro
6 - Dave Sturrock, 68 Camaro

If any other HMC racer with an HMC legal car wishes to attend please contact me direct.

Dale M

[Ellis]

Dale
You should bring them to Baskerville Historics (In Tassie) Oct 2--4 2015....and its on the way home

[Steve Holmes]

I just noticed this thread has now had over 200,000 page views! Cool.

[Kiwiboss]

TV footage from the Ganley Festival, 2015 featuring HMC and ATA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap8wHthqkYU&feature=em-upload_owner

I'd like to thank, Mike Corry from Health House, Kevin Gimblett, Murray Brown, Gary Riata, Dave Sturrock and Glen Allingham for there help funding this footage.

Dale M

[STG69]

Firstly I'd like to congadulate all involved on a fantastic couple of weekends at the Ganley Festivle Hampton Downs in Jan. My family and I were lucky enough to view the action from an upstairs appartment overlooking the start finish line on the first weekend. Not a race meeting I'll forget any time soon. I look forward to the rounds later this year at QR and Lakeside.
As a result of coming over I started to look around at suitable cars for the class. I made contact with a gentleman here in QLD who has two cars forsale both ourlined below. I have no financial interst in these cars but believe they both offer very good value. If you would like more information send me a PM and I'll pass on the sellers details.
Cheers
Kyle

Some info on both cars:

Calypso Coral 1970 Boss TransAm
This car was purchased in 1970 from the showroom floor and taken to a workshop and converted into a Trans Am car. It is a genuine Boss with Vin number still fitted to the car. It also comes with the original Marty report which lists all the extras the car was purchased with. Independent racer Greg Hessler built the car with Warren Tope playing a big part on the build and was able to supply lots of special parts from the 69 factory team cars. Warrens father was vice president of Fords powertrain group so hence the access to parts. It has various Kar Kraft and Shelby Team parts throughout. The engine was built by Bud Moore but the block is now a Boss 302. The Bud Moore inlet manifold is still on the car. The original seat, same as was in Moffat’s car but it has a modern race seat in for now. The car was restored back in the late 90s but was not raced very much.
Genuine Trans Am race history.
$120,000 AUD

Blue 1969 Mustang.
This car is brand new and race ready. It has been built to race in Group NC and is legal. Has big Lincoln front brakes with race rotors.
Rear brakes stock ford. Front spindles are Big block ford. The brace is the beefier one out of 70 Mustang.. Rear axle is floating. Diff is fitted with a watts lick set up from the states. Drive shaft is custom made. Top loader 4 speed. Custom fuel cell running 2 pumps. Fuel is pumped into pot then to engine. Battery mounted in boot. Engine was built from ground up by Bow Seaton. We started with the latest motor craft 351 Boss block. The very best of everything went in to it. Bench tested at over 530HP. Fully race tuned exhaust with same headers. 780 holly with 4 post adjuster. Interior we kept the ford dash facing and pads but fitted modern gauges. Control box between seats with push start. Modern peddle box and a Hurst shift with quick change linkages.
$110,000 is well below build cost.
Sorry the pics I had were too big for the site even after compressing. PM me and I'll pass on the sellers details.

[Kiwiboss]

Glenn Allingham's new 70 Camaro coming to HMC. Glenn is one of 5 cars going to Australia which get loaded early next month.

[DewiAusTransAm]

Firstly I'd like to congadulate all involved on a fantastic couple of weekends at the Ganley Festivle Hampton Downs in Jan. My family and I were lucky enough to view the action from an upstairs appartment overlooking the start finish line on the first weekend. Not a race meeting I'll forget any time soon. I look forward to the rounds later this year at QR and Lakeside.
As a result of coming over I started to look around at suitable cars for the class. I made contact with a gentleman here in QLD who has two cars forsale both ourlined below. I have no financial interst in these cars but believe they both offer very good value. If you would like more information send me a PM and I'll pass on the sellers details.
Cheers
Kyle

Some info on both cars:

Calypso Coral 1970 Boss TransAm
This car was purchased in 1970 from the showroom floor and taken to a workshop and converted into a Trans Am car. It is a genuine Boss with Vin number still fitted to the car. It also comes with the original Marty report which lists all the extras the car was purchased with. Independent racer Greg Hessler built the car with Warren Tope playing a big part on the build and was able to supply lots of special parts from the 69 factory team cars. Warrens father was vice president of Fords powertrain group so hence the access to parts. It has various Kar Kraft and Shelby Team parts throughout. The engine was built by Bud Moore but the block is now a Boss 302. The Bud Moore inlet manifold is still on the car. The original seat, same as was in Moffat’s car but it has a modern race seat in for now. The car was restored back in the late 90s but was not raced very much.
Genuine Trans Am race history.
$120,000 AUD

Blue 1969 Mustang.
This car is brand new and race ready. It has been built to race in Group NC and is legal. Has big Lincoln front brakes with race rotors.
Rear brakes stock ford. Front spindles are Big block ford. The brace is the beefier one out of 70 Mustang.. Rear axle is floating. Diff is fitted with a watts lick set up from the states. Drive shaft is custom made. Top loader 4 speed. Custom fuel cell running 2 pumps. Fuel is pumped into pot then to engine. Battery mounted in boot. Engine was built from ground up by Bow Seaton. We started with the latest motor craft 351 Boss block. The very best of everything went in to it. Bench tested at over 530HP. Fully race tuned exhaust with same headers. 780 holly with 4 post adjuster. Interior we kept the ford dash facing and pads but fitted modern gauges. Control box between seats with push start. Modern peddle box and a Hurst shift with quick change linkages.
$110,000 is well below build cost.
Sorry the pics I had were too big for the site even after compressing. PM me and I'll pass on the sellers details.


Hi Kyle, would the Blue 69 Mustang you are talking about be this one? (see attached) 29046

Also, would I be allowed to share these on the 'For Sale' section of our Australian Trans-Am website?
If so, could you please send me any info & contact details to dj0110@live.com.au
Cheers, Dewi Jones.

[STG69]

Hi Dewi,

Thats not the car. The one I referred to has never been raced and is a Team Shelby replica. I've sent you the sellers details.

Cheers

[Kiwiboss]

Great Steve Holmes article in the current NZV8 magazine on the Sinclair HMC Cuda, worth buying just for the read!!

[Kiwiboss]

Apparently on Sky Sport last night they had Greg Murphy driving the Cuda around Hampton! Haven't got sky so didn't see it.

[kiwi285]

Would be interesting to hear how that went and what Greg thought of that car and the historic cars in general.

[Rod Grimwood]

Was good, pity they buggered up the audio to what was actually happening. Good though mean noise.

[Kiwiboss]

I saw footage on Facebook of Murf in the Cuda if one cares to troll through that?

May see some of you at the MSNZ Conference Saturday if you're their?

Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

HMC cars dropped to the shipper today Australia bound for QR Days of Thunder with Australian Trans Am in less than 3 weeks.

[Kiwiboss]

Out of the 4 cars I see Murf voted the HMC Cuda his favourite and best car on the Sky Speed challenge, well done Keith, Bic and Team

[Kiwiboss]

Glenn Allingham sent me these pictures today of his new HMC 70 Camaro, I'll see it for the first time at QR in 2 weeks but what a cool looking historic saloon HMC legal with all iron engine, Tex trans, Wilwood brakes, 15 X 9 Minilites, a great addition to the class. We are defiantly were the FUN begins :)

[Steve Holmes]

Wow Dale, you're Mustang looks great with those Minilites on it!

[Spgeti]

Wow...that reminds me of the Richards/ Neville C /Bunce GTX Camaro. Nice job.

[Kiwiboss]

Wow Dale, you're Mustang looks great with those Minilites on it!

Seen I had some "Ur Arr Hmm" repairs to do I thought I may as well change the look slightly :)

[Kiwiboss]

Wow...that reminds me of the Richards/ Neville C /Bunce GTX Camaro. Nice job.

Yeah, its a stunner alrite!! great addition to the class!!

dale M

[George Sheweiry]

Very nice Dale, immaculately presented as always!!

[Kiwiboss]

Very nice Dale, immaculately presented as always!!

Thanks George, we'll get you one day mate!!!

Cars all loaded and off to Brisbane, two more hidden in behind. QR is only 2 weeks away!!

Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

Looked at this in AKL Wednesday, only been in the country 2 days but the owner swears black and blue that he's building it for HMC, will take him about 18months he said. Gonna be a 1969 Lee Roy Yarbrough Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II "W" nose replica so that'll be something different, gotta be good, we defiantly are the FUN class and isn't that a whole lotta rear fender, yikes.

[Jac Mac]

Looked at this in AKL Wednesday, only been in the country 2 days but the owner swears black and blue that he's building it for HMC, will take him about 18months he said. Gonna be a 1969 Lee Roy Yarbrough Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II "W" nose replica so that'll be something different, gotta be good, we *defiantly* are the FUN class and isn't that a whole lotta rear fender, yikes.
There goes that word *defiantly* again?? *definitely* might fit better Dale :)

[Kiwiboss]

Just can'rt tust sPELL chequer theze daze can u Jak, LOL

[Jac Mac]

Just can'rt tust sPELL chequer theze daze can u Jak, LOL

Guess we should all be thankful that you don't do your own signwriting then...:)

[Kiwiboss]

Guess we should all be thankful that you don't do your own signwriting then...:)

Friggen signwriters are worst than me Jac :)

[Jac Mac]

Friggen signwriters are worst than me Jac :)

Don't I know it, Woody's stock car often had the signwriter running alongside as we pushed it onto the trailer correcting his spelling mistakes, he used to hate it as the paint was usually still drying from panel replacements making the brush drag like crazy, no excuses for that any more with stick on stuff and computers to generate a preview...

[GD66]

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[khyndart in CA]

Must be tricky being a pin striper in Hawaii having to maneuver around the inevitable rust !

[nigel watts]

There goes that word *defiantly* again?? *definitely* might fit better Dale :)

I don't know - I think both spellings convey the message quite well.

[gianttalkinghead]

Seen I had some "Ur Arr Hmm" repairs to do I thought I may as well change the look slightly :)

The Muzzie looks awesome Dale, have fun in oz mate

[DewiAusTransAm]

Ad for this weekend, can't wait to have you guys over for the first of three weekends this year.
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[Ellis]

From the Entry List...


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/falcongtho/Snapshot%202015-06-16%2008-20-36_zpsqocvyruj.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/falcongtho/media/Snapshot%202015-06-16%2008-20-36_zpsqocvyruj.jpg.html)

[TonyG]

Where is Craig Staceys Javelin these days. It was left over here after the last trip was it not? If I remember the post correctly at the time it was possibly going to appear at a couple more random meetings?

[DewiAusTransAm]

For those who want to watch HMC at Queensland Raceway this weekend, here is a link to a livestream provided by Queensland Raceways that will operate from around 8:30am (QLD time) on Saturday.
http://livestream.com/qldraceways/2-days-of-thunder?origin=event_published&mixpanel_id=fd31098153191-01669db3b-43681f0a-2ee000-fd3109815422f&acc_id=2771889&medium=email

[TonyG]

Cheers Dewi.

[DewiAusTransAm]

A couple of photos of each car today for practice ahead of the Shannons 2 Days of Thunder.
All cars going well so far, Glenn Allingham turned the first laps of his new Camaro, spirits high and looking forward to a great weekend!
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[DewiAusTransAm]

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[DewiAusTransAm]

The four NZ cars could not keep up with the front pack today as Charlie O'Brien lowered the lap record in each race and set a qualifying in the 1:18s, which we have not seen before in Trans-Am, in saying that, most of the Kiwis have improved on their times from two years ago. Unfortunately Kevin Gimblett suffered an engine misfire and is out for the weekend, but was scheduled to stay at Woody's garage anyway in the break between QR and Lakeside for suspension work. Should be a great day today!

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[DewiAusTransAm]

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[Steve Holmes]

Outstanding work Dewi, really enjoying the updates and pics. gotta love social media. Can you post some pics of the Aussie cars please?

[DewiAusTransAm]

A few shots from today, some fantastic racing through the field to cap off an amazing weekend! I'll have some photos up on the Aus Trans-Am website soon with the Aussie cars plus a highlights video coming soon.
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[Trevor Benton]

An excellent weekends racing at Qld Raceway & very well run with blue skys & low 20`s temperatures. Great driving & car preparation by the Trans-Am boys though the crowd was smaller than I expected. Looking forward to Lakeside.

[Kiwiboss]

Had an absolute blast on the weekend racing with our Aussie friends in Australian Trans Am. They had the addition of several new cars plus our 4 HMC cars to make up a great field. The racing was very competitive and good fun but also just as much fun off the track as in these pictures. Got to make new friends, meet new people and catch up with old mates and talk about perfect weather WOW, it just doesn't get any better than this. The highlight was the out of the box performance of Glenn Allinghams new HMC 70 Camaro, never turned a wheel and he was on the pace, a broken rocker dropped him out of 2 races but they soon repaired that, the Aussies thought his car was very cool.

[Kiwiboss]

More Pics

[Kiwiboss]

And some more

[Kiwiboss]

Last lot

[Kiwiboss]

Found a couple more: Thanks to Rodger Cunninghame from Invercargill and Pete Stevenson, Tauranga helping me out over the weekend.

[George Sheweiry]

Green with envy Dale, Looks like you guys are having a great time of it. Great to see the NZ / Aus comradery. Certainly a lot more Aussie TA cars since the last time you were there. Dont have too many King Prawns and Bundaberg rums, well not before a race anyway. George.

[DewiAusTransAm]

Just uploaded to the Australian Trans-Am YouTube channel, the livestream footage of Race 1 from the 2 Days of Thunder.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1xgCvtz5E

[DewiAusTransAm]

Highlights from the weekend:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DYR5RXrRIw

[Kiwiboss]

Hi All, been a bit slack on HMC mailouts, with our Aussie trip etc and with life's other forces time has been a essence.

Below is our next seasons confirmed dates for both HMC and HSC combined. For Compliance every HMC car must have a HMC MSNZ COD(Code of description) and all Historic Saloon Cars under 3 Litre must also have a COD to MSNZ T&C and Schedule K regulations so please make sure you have done this and bring the COD with you, otherwise lets go have some FUN with good ol classic and historic racing been the theme.

So, next Seasons 2015/16 event dates are:

1. 12/13 Sep 2015, Icebreaker - Hampton Downs – HRC
2. 3rd October 2015, TACCOC Classic – Pukekohe – (Saturday one day event)
3. 15/17 January 2016, NZFMR Porsche – Hampton Downs(this is our biggee, expect 30 plus cars)
4. 22/24 January 2016, NZFMR Porsche – Hampton Downs(this is our biggee, expect 30 plus cars)
5. March 2016, Legends – Hampton Downs – HRC(wont clash with Beach Hop I believe)

Any questions shoot me and E-mail dmathers@xtra.co.nz and we will have several new cars racing with us this season

Dale M

[DewiAusTransAm]

Some photos from Day 1 - Practice at the Lakeside Classic

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[DewiAusTransAm]

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[DewiAusTransAm]

Some photos from Saturday & Sunday. An amazing weekend, see you all in Sydney!

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[DewiAusTransAm]

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[Frosty5]

Geez Dale, that 800hp certainly makes a difference LOL

Cheers Dave

[kiwi285]

Great attitude here Glenn - the car gets a bit light at the top of the hill LOL

http://i62.tinypic.com/x5cga8.jpg

[Trevor Benton]

Went out to Lakeside Park on Sunday for some excellent racing entertainment in perfect 25 degree weather. The Kiwi boys drove very well & the yellow Z28 Camaro was able to repair a power steering pump between races.

Trevor Benton, Brisbane [ex Auckland].

[Steve Holmes]

These images are outstanding Dewi! Thanks for posting.

[Kiwiboss]

This one at Lakeside was just about one of the best weekends racing I've ever had, fun fun fun!!

Two great Craig English photos

Dale M

[DewiAusTransAm]

Video Highlights from Round 4 of the 2015 Loaders 'R' Us Australian Trans-Am Series at Lakeside Park Qld, joined by the NZ Historic Muscle Cars for the second round of the Australian leg of the 2015 Trans-Tasman Challenge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gut2d07njsc

[Steve Holmes]

Hey bloody great work Dewi! That was awesome.

[Kiwiboss]

Historic and Classic Commission August 2015 report, From Raymond 'Crunch' Bennett, Historic & Classic chair

Mention of the word ‘history’ tends to cause glazed-over eyes and illicit grunts from many, but by changing one letter and adding another, it automatically engenders excitement among those involved with our branch of the sport.

We all think we know what is meant by the term ‘historic’ and each of us are somewhat correct.

Our interpretations are framed mostly by what we think is best for us, whereas the MSNZ Historic & Classic Commission must apply an interpretation that is good for the sport as a whole.

How many times do we start sentences with ‘back in the good old days’ or ‘never had these bloody rules when I was racing’? Quite often, me included. While we don’t have the same number of fatalities now as we did in the past, we don’t have the same hay bales around the classic circuits that we did either.

I would love to see the return of the historical street venues, and the return of the vehicles that competed in the period I consider the heyday of motorsport.

How does MSNZ preserve history?

Up until now, efforts have focused on the vehicles, which are governed by a set of rules called Appendix 6. These rules try to define and classify all the periods of vehicles, and do a good job (but maybe they need a catchier title!). The question is, are they definitive enough and do they work practically?

I have always asked, what is the difference between Classic and Clubman racing? Because they tend to be the same in New Zealand.

An old car is not always a classic

We have a Schedule K COD that shows your vehicle ran in period, or is the same as one of that model that ran in period. Schedules T&C open a few doors to modifications, encapsulating more of the clubman-type cars that were around ‘back in the good old days’.

Where we, the commission, and MSNZ need to work toward now is race grids with these vehicles and, ultimately, historic-only meetings at historic venues.

A big leap towards this has been the ‘Festival’ events at Hampton Downs with grids of cars that race together from the era they represent.

These include Historic Muscle Cars, Historic Sports Sedans, The Formula Atlantic Group and the Shellsport Revival Series.

Flexing muscle

The first one off the block was Historic Muscle Cars (HMC). For the last four years, HMC have provided grids that have topped 30 cars. These are primarily American cars from the 1960s up to 1977 in the same specification as they were then. A huge limiting factor is the wheel size of 15”, which limits the brake size, leading to an even playing field and lower costs. Growing up, I loved the Pontiac Trans Ams of the 70s, now I think that they are ugly, but let’s just call that the patina of history.

Mustangs never really went out of date, except in the 80s when they become four-cylinder opera top boxes for pimps and drug dealers. Chev Camaros, SS Challengers and the like will always live on in history as long as movies like Bullitt survive.

HMC has ensured a future for its current fleet, as well as new cars on the way, because of the rules it has set in stone. I look at Formula First, which has been around since Moses carved the 11 commandments*, and its success is derived from a strict set of rules that have virtually never altered. It keeps the costs low and expectations of excitement for the drivers high – well done! Now we have the equivalent in our beloved branch of the sport.

Making the right noise

HMC is all about the cars. These are about as period correct as you will see anywhere in the world. They produce the noise that we all love to listen to and engender the excitement within us of the good old days. Now HMC has expanded to include Historic Saloon Cars, which is a group of cars that must follow the same rules, but are up to 3,000cc capacity.

The likes of the BMW 2002s, Vauxhall Vivas and Hillman Avengers that used to populate the grid at the Wills and latter Benson & Hedges long distance races now also have a place to shine. Success breeds success, and this grid is expanding in numbers. People are even turning their modified cars back to its original specs so they can be part of the show.

At present, my search for an Avenger is drawing laughs from my mates, an unexpected comment from my dad about my brother being conceived in his one, and my son saying an Avenger is a superhero, not a car.

But, when I find it, I will have a car that I can drive to huge Historic Festival events, run in a grid of fantastic cars, take my lunchbox off the back seat and drive home again. I will feel like a superhero myself!

Grids of genuine Historic racecars have owners/drivers that appreciate the value of what they are a part of. They also still have something else from the past that is missing in our sport today, respect of your fellow competitor. “Rubbing is racing” doesn’t wash here, but if it happens, I know the old Turtle Wax Diamond Sheen polish will fix that, I just have to find room in my lunchbox to carry it!

It’s all good news, and seemingly was born of the commitment and forward thinking of all the MSNZ H&C commissions of the past. Long may it continue to blossom.

Now there is a great name for an Avenger racecar!

*11th commandment: Historic Motor Racing is all about the car, not about the trophy…and the best museum is a race track.

[Spgeti]

I owned one of the B&H Avenger TC's Dale. I wonder if it is still where I left it ?

[Kiwiboss]

I owned one of the B&H Avenger TC's Dale. I wonder if it is still where I left it ?

That's the idea Bruce, to have people find these old saloons that have great NZ race history, as now they'll have somewhere to race in correct format rather than at club/all-comer type events that think they're classic meetings.

Generally these cars don't go away, they're still out there somewhere but most owners have given up and parked them not wanting to race with modernized old cars of similar look, the current situation we have in NZ.

Dale M

[Kevin Hirst]

That's the idea Bruce, to have people find these old saloons that have great NZ race history, as now they'll have somewhere to race in correct format rather than at club/all-comer type events that think they're classic meetings.

Generally these cars don't go away, they're still out there somewhere but most owners have given up and parked them not wanting to race with modernized old cars of similar look, the current situation we have in NZ.

Dale M

Dale, check with Mike Courtney, his avenger is or was for sale, ex targa car, cheers.

[ERC]

... but most owners have given up and parked them not wanting to race with modernized old cars of similar look, the current situation we have in NZ.
Dale M
Really? I think you'll find that there are a dozen other reasons Dale. There are several classes for road cars that seem to attract both older and slightly newer cars, but the big gap up until recently, was no opportunity for slick shod, or ex-race cars, running without interior trim, other than pre-65s.

We have been pushing for years for a class for classic ex-race saloons. But we have only recently seen any moves to cater for them. So far, most of the emphasis has been on the larger engined stuff, so race Avengers and other 1600cc cars for example haven't really been welcomed, other than as road cars. I'd venture to suggest that some have stayed in sheds because they are totally outclassed by the big bangers. But let's hear from the owners themselves, otherwise we are just guessing.

[Roger Dowding]

Dale, check with Mike Courtney, his avenger is or was for sale, ex targa car, cheers.

Is that the same Mike Courtney, who ran Austin Seven sports - 1930 type seven, and also owned for a while a rear engined single seater with a Standard Vanguard / TR2 motor, think was called the RA Vanguard. have a photo of the engine somewhere but not the whole car. Mike lives / lived in Oratia / Glen Eden area in the late 1980's on some acreage and a big shed for cars, with a 1920 Villa brought from Mt Eden placed on it.

[Kevin Hirst]

Is that the same Mike Courtney, who ran Austin Seven sports - 1930 type seven, and also owned for a while a rear engined single seater with a Standard Vanguard / TR2 motor, think was called the RA Vanguard. have a photo of the engine somewhere but not the whole car. Mike lives / lived in Oratia / Glen Eden area in the late 1980's on some acreage and a big shed for cars, with a 1920 Villa brought from Mt Eden placed on it.

Yes, that's him, saw him at the rotorua swap meet a couple of month's ago, had avenger & austin special's for sale. He had been in Kerikeri for a few years but has moved back to somewhere in Auckland.

[Roger Dowding]

Yes, that's him, saw him at the rotorua swap meet a couple of month's ago, had avenger & austin special's for sale. He had been in Kerikeri for a few years but has moved back to somewhere in Auckland.

Kevin, if you see him again, mention my name. I was his Bank Manager at ANZ New Lynn in the late 1980's early 90's and as we both enjoyed cars had a lot to talk about - He had the vege shop in Lynmall at the time.

The Vanguard engine circa 1990.

30030

Will put this and some others in Yards and Yarns thread - as doesn't really belong here.

[Oldfart]

He is now in West Auckland again, more than 1 car for sale on Trade Me (as is always normal for him :) )

[Roger Dowding]

He is now in West Auckland again, more than 1 car for sale on Trade Me (as is always normal for him :) )

Oldfart same applies ; " if you see him again, mention my name. I was his Bank Manager at ANZ New Lynn in the late 1980's early 90's and as we both enjoyed cars had a lot to talk about - He had the vege shop in Lynmall at the time. "

Mike is a trader, last time I saw him was at a Telecom Motorfest in Frankton, Hamilton in the mid 1990's [ 94 I think ]. he was there with one of his Austin Sevens.

[Rod Grimwood]

Crunch, I know were there is a Avenger Alpine body shell in pretty good shape along with a few other bits. You will get at right price.
1976 Model.
Just rang guy and he thinks its still there in yard.

If you interested

Give me a call 027 275 2264

or if you coming up for rally of the north you can have a look

[DewiAusTransAm]

Some photos from an awesome weekend at the 2015 Muscle Car Masters, where 4 Kiwi HMCs joined Australian Trans-Am for the event.

Aussie Mike Collins was involved in a nasty shunt entering Eastern Creek's Turn 1 due to a gearbox drama, he walked away, was cleared of any injuries by the medical centre and the car will be repaired.
30138

Dale Mathers being guided around the Eastern Creek circuit by Charlie O'Brien early on in private practice. Unfortunately a broken axle put Dale's weekend to an end on Friday, with a spare axle unable to be found of the right length.
30139

John English debuted a stunning Pontiac Firebird on the weekend.
30140

Great turnout by the Allingham crew, the track commentators noted the great representation of kiwi supporters here for the event.
30141

One of the most popular cars at the event, an ex-NASCAR Grand National '66 Pontiac GTO originally built by Bobby Allison joined the Trans-Am field for the weekend, and Royston Evans really turned it on for the fans!
30142

A surprise to many to see Russell Wright debuting his '67 Mustang fastback and landing it on pole, almost two-tenths quicker than Charlie O'Brien.
30143

[DewiAusTransAm]

Race 2 start at Sydney Motorsport Park.
30144

A great weekend for Kevin Gimblett, putting the car back in the truck without a scratch. The Earnhardt tribute livery drew a crowd behind the pits between races.
30145

The best of the Kiwis over the weekend was Murray Brown, recording consistent top 10 finishes with a best of 7th.
30146

Murray battling here with Ian Palmer. Palmer was kept busy over the weekend, fielding a car in both Trans-Am & the Touring Car Masters.
30148

[Steve Holmes]

Outstanding images and info Dewi, thanks heaps. That Mustang of Russell Wright did really well first time out of the box. The race results listed it as only having a 5 litre motor. Surely that can't be right?

[DewiAusTransAm]

Outstanding images and info Dewi, thanks heaps. That Mustang of Russell Wright did really well first time out of the box. The race results listed it as only having a 5 litre motor. Surely that can't be right?

You're absolutely right there Steve, it is a 5 Litre! It was his Group N engine fit to Trans-Am specs (with the right heads etc) which was actually down on power to his proper Trans-Am engine that failed during a shakedown the week leading into the event.

[Steve Holmes]

Wow! Thats really impressive Dewi, I'm amazed by that.

[Jac Mac]

Perhaps its a timely sign that all the big bore / stroker boys need to think about going back to the 5000cc size as well, save some pennies in the process as well as the odd axle or two!

[Roger Dowding]

Oldfart same applies ; " if you see him again, mention my name. I was his Bank Manager at ANZ New Lynn in the late 1980's early 90's and as we both enjoyed cars had a lot to talk about - He had the vege shop in Lynmall at the time. "

Mike is a trader, last time I saw him was at a Telecom Motorfest in Frankton, Hamilton in the mid 1990's [ 94 I think ]. he was there with one of his Austin Sevens.

The Motorfest was 1994, as have just relocated [ as in found ] the photos I took, they are going on a new thread soon, some have been posted already.

[Roger Dowding]

30154

Here is a mustang from the 1994 Motorfest..

[Steve Holmes]

Perhaps its a timely sign that all the big bore / stroker boys need to think about going back to the 5000cc size as well, save some pennies in the process as well as the odd axle or two!

Its way too late for that Jac, the Hemi Cuda is a big block 465ci. To be fair, reliability has been pretty good among the HMC cars. The drivelines are pretty strong. Despite suggestions the top cars have 800hp, this is greatly exaggerated. The HMC rules stipulate a standard bonnet, which means the big high-rise manifolds won't fit. Other than the big block Cuda, which has just over 700hp, the top small block powered cars have about 640 - 650hp. Thats only a little more than Pete Geoghegan had in the Super Falcon, back in 1972. That car had 620hp.

The drivelines in the HMC cars use a lot of the same parts as the Central Muscle Cars have, and the top CMC cars, with their Nascar motors, are getting up close to 900hp, which even at that, are pretty reliable.

But I'm really impressed by that 5 litre Aussie Trans-Am car, and would love to see a few more people in HMC go this route. Also, the high-revving 5 litre cars sound fantastic! But it just goes to show how important it is to get a car handling and stopping well.

[Kiwiboss]

A few pics of our boys at the Muscle Car Masters.

[Kiwiboss]

These two Melbourne based Aussies ran with ATA for the first time, new to our group they were so impressed with our HMC "Cars are the Stars" attitude that they now want to come to NZ to race. HMC is now giving the Australian based muscle car racers somewhere to across the ditch to race, this is only just the start.

[ERC]

Looking ahead Dale, it might pay to touch base with Tony Quinn, as the chances are, they'll have the Aussie GT Series at HD November 2016 for the extended track reopening. Probably the most eagerly anticipated meeting since HD first opened in 2009 and the first McLaren Festival January 2010.

Getting the Aussies over for more than one class would be a real bonus. Much I suppose depends on who actually promotes/organises the meeting and let us just hope it is Classic friendly...

[Kiwiboss]

Looking ahead Dale, it might pay to touch base with Tony Quinn, as the chances are, they'll have the Aussie GT Series at HD November 2016 for the extended track reopening. Probably the most eagerly anticipated meeting since HD first opened in 2009 and the first McLaren Festival January 2010.

Getting the Aussies over for more than one class would be a real bonus. Much I suppose depends on who actually promotes/organises the meeting and let us just hope it is Classic friendly...

Classic friendly is the issue Ray, a great idea but this Quinn Aussie GT Series seems to be more about Tier one/modern type racing rather than anything Classic/Historic so not really sure that this is the direction I want to take HMC/HSC, but could still worth a look in the future maybe?

Dale M

[ERC]

Fair point Dale, but according to "T & C" (Thoroughbred & Classic), 'Thoroughbred' must surely include Aston Martin, Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley, even Porsche, which is what the Aussie GT series has in spades? We shouldn't let the fact that our T & C rules totally ignores Thoroughbreds, stop participation at a meeting that could appeal to a far wider audience than Tier 1.

The suggestion was basically because shipping logistics might make it an attractive proposition for the Aussie Muscle cars to head this way.

[Kiwiboss]

Fair point Dale, but according to "T & C" (Thoroughbred & Classic), 'Thoroughbred' must surely include Aston Martin, Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley, even Porsche, which is what the Aussie GT series has in spades? We shouldn't let the fact that our T & C rules totally ignores Thoroughbreds, stop participation at a meeting that could appeal to a far wider audience than Tier 1.

The suggestion was basically because shipping logistics might make it an attractive proposition for the Aussie Muscle cars to head this way.

Ray, can't say I've really watch the Aussie GT Series on TV much but I thought it was for the more modern newer looking cars? rather than anything under Appendix 6, Schedule K, T&C Group 2(12/77 saloons) group 1(12/77 sports cars) or Group 3(post 78 to 15 years old) regulations?

The Aussie guys I've mentioned above are racing similar muscle V8 type vehicles to our HMC cars and the keenest they have is that they can come to NZ and race in a similar group, should they desire to race with at another non classic/historic meeting/class that coincides around the same time is purely up to them.

Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

Its way too late for that Jac, the Hemi Cuda is a big block 465ci. To be fair, reliability has been pretty good among the HMC cars. The drivelines are pretty strong. Despite suggestions the top cars have 800hp, this is greatly exaggerated. The HMC rules stipulate a standard bonnet, which means the big high-rise manifolds won't fit. Other than the big block Cuda, which has just over 700hp, the top small block powered cars have about 640 - 650hp. Thats only a little more than Pete Geoghegan had in the Super Falcon, back in 1972. That car had 620hp.

The drivelines in the HMC cars use a lot of the same parts as the Central Muscle Cars have, and the top CMC cars, with their Nascar motors, are getting up close to 900hp, which even at that, are pretty reliable.

But I'm really impressed by that 5 litre Aussie Trans-Am car, and would love to see a few more people in HMC go this route. Also, the high-revving 5 litre cars sound fantastic! But it just goes to show how important it is to get a car handling and stopping well.

Correct Steve no change necessary, HMC rules are based around FIA group 2 & 5 and what was historically correct for saloons from 66 to 72 in Australia, NZ, USA and England and also using our own MSNZ Group 2(Saloons) Appendix 6, schedule K and T&C pre 12/77 rules, FIA regulations determine that for a vehicle to be a “Standard Series Production Manufacture” a 100 or more have to been built, and as the HMC class isn’t built around anyone’s particular car any engine big or small is allowed as per the manufacture, so choose your weapon of choice? generally every vehicle has its achilles heel.

This been my first broken axle i guess it was more a lack of preparation rather than the illusional horsepower been quoted here, after 11 years of racing I should have replaced them? hmm I now know better(Note to Dale: replace axles every 10 years). From day one when I built my mustang it has only made 560HP/495ft/lb, im on my 3rd rebuild and have had Marsh dyno it every time and it only swings about 7HP but more importantly I have never blown an engine, can’t afford that carry on been on a self-employed small business racers budget but what I have worked on is handling and braking for performance gain(something the Aussies are good at)!! With me strapped in the Boss its whopping 1615KG’s going down the track, Gimbletts Camaro is similar(as are others) and his car is 615HP, you see a 400CI SB chev with iron 23 degree heads under a standard production manufactures bonnet is going to struggle to make much more, there is a Jet Sprint class running a similar engine package except they have no bonnet to contend with hence poke the intake/carb/s up higher and the best they can get is around 660/670HP so 800HP is in “dream on land” unless you increase the engine size by going to a big block but then you carry more weight, the Achilles heel I talk about.

Australian Trans Ams rules are closely based around the actual American Trans Am rules from period where they were allowed to strip the cars out, remove door glass, headlights, bumpers, etc and this has allowed them to be much lighter car than a similar HMC vehicle, their 350 aluminium cylinder head pump gas engine restriction means they’re around the 540HP mark tops, light weight beats HP any day(EG: FVA Escort verse’s Mustang/Camaro, remember those days!) and both groups have made allowances for brakes and gearbox although these allowances still fit within period era component correctness. The yellow 5litre ATA mustang of Russell Wrights weights 1240KG so with even just 390HP at the rear wheels he was able to put it on pole, plus he is a long time experienced racer in Group Nc with great capability, and remember the Aussies have been racing on the “period correct bias ply 15” Hoosier” tyre for years and have perfected car set up. ATA mostly races out of Queensland under the AASA organisation, a breakaway from CAMS Australia, and CAMS doesn’t recognise ATA rules because like New Zealand, Trans Am wasn’t a class raced in either countries. So all the ATA race cars have to be re-logged booked as “Trans Am Sports Sedans” to race at CAMS events like the Muscle Car Masters, some may remember that when Moffat shipped his 69 Coca cola Trans Am Mustang to Australia CAMS made him refit the interior(and other parts) and this was way back in 1969. But what is important here is between HMC and ATA we have vehicles with similar performance levels, very close in visual looks and are on the same wheel/tyre package, so here we have two great and affordable big bore saloon car class’s that can come together from time to time and have a bit off Trans-Tasman FUN, that’s all we are about, something I believe lacking in today’s Classic and Historic saloon car motorsport, so there you have it and long may it continue.

[ERC]

Love it! JUST 390 at the wheels! Jeez, I get 95 at the rear wheels and guess what, some groups do have fun! It isn't lacking at all Dale. You must be looking in the wrong places...

[Jac Mac]

Since I suggested the look at going back to more 'in period' cu in numbers. Steves answer of ' Its way to late for that Jac'. I often wonder how many good racing categories have met their demise by that very phrase where series officials have felt they cannot revisit the rules to tone things down a bit. The 'OLD' NZV8 Ford 302w vs 305 Holden was a classic when the rules did NOT include a specification for the block deck height. Next thing blocks were being decked by amounts like ~0.130" and custom pistons/rings etc being made, all that added an extra $ 5 or 6k to the engine build for everyone that felt the need, only worked on the Ford by virtue of sufficient thread material. If they had only written a minimum deck height into the rule that money would have been better spent on a dry sump setup. That's the sort of stuff Im getting at. The Cuda is an exception you obviously choose to allow, but we never saw the likes of that car in NZ in period and your engine RPM rules cover that area. However Mustangs & Camaros- earlier versions never had the likes of 347 cu in or 4.125+ bore sizes. Just sayin, no skin off my nose, just tryin to look after the guy with low cash but savvy mechanical & handling skills to make his overall package better, NZ motorsport grids used to be full of those guys, not anymore.

[Steve Holmes]

Jac, New Zealand engine size rules in the first year of Group 5 in 1968 were 7 litres. MSNZ then reduced this to 5.5 litres, which remained the case through until 1971. From 1972, it increased to 6 litres.

In Australia, there was really no engine size cap and there were several big block 427 cars being raced. This was until 1972, when it was brought down to 6 litres.

NZ never had a 5 litre engine limit. Would doing so reduce engine build costs? Does it cost more to build a large low revving motor, or a small high revving motor?

Also, wen HMC was created, the only way it could ever get off the ground was to make it appeal to car owners who were already racing. Most already had 6 litre plus motors. It was tough enough getting them to switch to the smaller 15" diameter wheels. Telling them they would also have to build smaller motors would have killed the class before it even started.

[John McKechnie]

I for one, am very grateful for Dale and HMC providing me a class with clear rules so I can afford to build my cars at home, and maintain them at home.
If there was no Historic racing, both my XA Coupe and HK Monaro would have been scrapped long ago.

Nothing worse than owning a race car and no class to run it in.

Looking forward to running the old Cleveland 351 this weekend at the Ice Breaker- no tyre warmers there.........

[DewiAusTransAm]

Classic friendly is the issue Ray, a great idea but this Quinn Aussie GT Series seems to be more about Tier one/modern type racing rather than anything Classic/Historic so not really sure that this is the direction I want to take HMC/HSC, but could still worth a look in the future maybe?

Dale M

Funny that Dale, Tony Quinn was on our flight back from Sydney to Brisbane on Sunday night after the Muscle Car Masters, I believe he was returning from NZ. I mentioned we just came from Eastern Creek racing Trans-Am & had some Kiwis over here. Should also note that Quinn has already brought the TCM cars to Highlands, a week after this year's festival.

[Steve Holmes]

The yellow 5litre ATA mustang of Russell Wrights weights 1240KG so with even just 390HP at the rear wheels he was able to put it on pole, plus he is a long time experienced racer in Group Nc with great capability, and remember the Aussies have been racing on the “period correct bias ply 15” Hoosier” tyre for years and have perfected car set up.

Thats impressive they got that Mustang down to just 1,240kg Dale. I wrote the full history on the second 1968 Penske Camaro (owned for many years by Historic Trans-Am organiser Tom McIntyre) for the Muscle Car Digital Magazine I'm involved with, and with serious acid dipping of the Camaro bodyshell, all other body parts, and subframe, plus other lightweight items such as magnesium wheels, the Penske team got this car down to just on the minimum 1968 Trans-Am racing weight of 2,600 pounds, which is approx 1,180kg.

So 1,240kg is a pretty impressive effort.

30224

[AMCO72]

How many muscle cars can we expect to see at HD for the Ice-breaker? The answer may depend on whether I am a spectator or not. The weather looks as though it might be OK.

[Kiwiboss]

Only 6 entered Gerald, absolutely pathetic considering we have more finished HMC cars than ever before, more HMC cars in the build than ever, more new guys coming on-board than ever and yet less and less are turning up!! Im not sure why this is but its very disappointing? Maybe some just wanta do car shows? Maybe some just wanta own them but not race? I really don’t understand? we have created a class based around sound common sense rules but still with quite liberal freedoms that apply equally to everyone, I’ve always promoted “Good for one Good for All” across the field! and we couldn’t promoted the class any better. Maybe its time for me to step aside as this seems to be what happens in most NZ class’s, someone starts it another takes it over and builds it further or maybe we just need another 20 years plus to get a 41 car grid like ERC? I’ll only be 75.

Maybe someone with the intelligence such as yourself Gerald or Ray can drive it further? I believe you are free after this season Ray? Doc John Elliott sort off has some “Historic” blood in him and I also like him, although not classic or historic he’s taken a group of misfits and turned it into New Zealands premier race series, might offer it to him as he clearly knows more than I do? I always said I’d give it 5 years but not quite going to make it by the looks, as for me I believe the same set of rules should always apply equally to everyone so that really leaves no class or event(other than the Festival) in this country for me to race my Mustang as a proper classic.

I was never one of those Kiwis that wanted to move to Australia but I have a lot of common interest in the way they organise Classic and Historic racing and apply the rules, may as well send my car back? I’ve already figured out they mainly race through the winter so that would give me the summer off. Anyway, im pretty sure a bunch of non-racers will have plenty of great ideas to give me, I don’t want ideas, I want effort, they say “Failure is the chance to begin again more intelligently” guess we’ll just have to do that?

PS: Your always welcome whether a spectator or not.

[John McKechnie]

Dale- I am entered, just put in wrong group- that makes 7

[ERC]

Disappointing Dale. I inherited 9 BMC 4 cylinder cars 20 years ago, down from a high of 36 the year before and it was obvious that

a) The series with the existing eligibility rules was probably unsustainable

b) There were a lot of cars that could fit if the rules changed.

At the end of season 1, I also realised that if the same people were keen to win at each event, then the vast majority weren't as keen to run, so it was changed to two handicaps only, giving everyone a fair chance. Needless to say, that seasons joint winner stomped off muttering that I had turned it into a lottery...

IMHO, giving everyone a fair chance has proved far more important than any other aspect and for six of the last 7 years we have had over 100 registered. BUT, at times, we too have suffered with a less than a 30% turnout. The reasons are many and varied, so as far as most of us are concerned, anything better than a 30% turnout is good, not withstanding that I have no time at all for six car grids.

If the numbers of pure (and I use that advisedly) Muscle Cars registered isn't enough for a stand alone grid, (and that seems to be the case) then from where I sit, the best logic is to create or combine with another class, that isn't currently supported. You don't have to back off on your own class rules as racing by classes has been a feature of motorsport since the Brookland's days.

I hate to say it, but the U3L class is hardly likely to attract many NEW cars as history shows that to date, every single car run so far has also raced in another class or can be accepted in an existing class.

The one group that has nowhere to race is a none CoD Classic race saloons class, whether they be genuine ex-classic race saloons or recent builds. Theoretically, we don't allow stripped out race cars, but we all know that many of them are pushing the rules a wee bit, but what is most important? The rules, or getting cars on the track?

You have opted for the former, we have opted for the latter, but our catchment of suitable cars is potentially massive. HMC is comparatively small in comparison, so why are you so surprised?

I hate to say it but much as I have supported the HMC committee's efforts and despite the obvious backing of MSNZ/CoD and Steve's excellent journalism and publicity, I am one who right from the outset, doubted you'd ever fill a grid. I think that at one time, there were about three Muscle Car groups, so your true catchment group was even smaller. It is a numbers game first and foremost.

I am sure the members you have with compliant cars are more than happy with the rules, but ask them WHY they are not actually out racing. A simple email - but you'll be lucky to get better than a 30% response!

I'm handing over to Chris at the end of the season because after 20 years, I felt it was time for someone else to have a go. I have the time and the enthusiasm, but a break from my dictatorial ways may well be good for the series and I'll still be there to offer Chris any support I can.

If you hang your hat totally on T & C and CoD's, then you expose the frailties of that system. I recently read a piece in TACCOC's 'Bespoke' magazine, presumably penned by John Holmes. Part of his summary was - and I quote it word for word:

One solution would be to tidy up the conflicts in Schedule K to move it line with Appendix K, throw away T & C entirely and give everyone a level playing field from which to start work.

When was that written? Autumn 2009...

[AMCO72]

Two very interesting posts there......1436 and 1438. Wouldnt it be great if all the potential racers got off their arse and put pen to paper, with a piece on here telling us what they would like to see happen with these classes. I am not holding my breath that that will happen.........havent got time.....'Yeh Right'.

[John McKechnie]

Gerald- I have been in the car restoration business for 40 plus years. In that time I have come across people who considered themselves to be Methusela -life span of 969 years. Plenty of time to get all projects done. There was GC who had 86 Packards-all were going to be completed, and KS who spent 27 years restoring his 1930 Dodge and refused to take the car out on the road till he was able to replicate the Carless Day sticker .
I would also venture to say that while men own the cars the cars will sit in garages until for one important reason it is to be moved. Either to the track or someone elses workshop.
There is only one reason- DESIRE.
Lack of this sense of direction in life sees not only these cars sit, but also leaving telling other people what should be done before they come out again.
Heaven would be a very crowded place if you could take all your toys with you.
Those who have a the desire to race their cars this weekend will be at the Ice Breaker as first class spectators- behind the wheel.

[Allan]

And then there are those who purchase a vehicle of interest/importance which they do not intend to use, not because they particularly want it, but because they have it and someone else doesn't.

[richiev8]

Perhaps with the apparent "slowing" of the economy, hobby funds are more limited and people are spending more time on there businesses ??

[John McKechnie]

Allan- yes there is the desire to show off the car they own.
There is also the desire to get the rules changed so their car can run, then not appear. The flow on affect is others who were happy with their cars then spend time and money changing to the new rules.

[John McKechnie]

Maybe, but like all desires such as gambling , the desire to race can be funded more comfortably when interest rates have been at Historically low rates, and are staying there.

Lifes short - race the dream.......

[richiev8]

Guess that depends what side of the fence you are on, investment or lending.
Seems when the economy slows luxury and hobbies are first to suffer.

Yes too true

[AMCO72]

Dale, I am sorry I didnt get up to Icebreaker on saturday......the Mother-in Law needed some attention, and as I hope to inherit some money from her one day, decided to keep on her good side !!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Now I was browsing through the MyLaps timing on the computer, and couldnt help but notice that your times were a good bit adrift of what they usually are. I know the track wasnt wet, so I have to assume you were running in your new 900hp engine so you can deal to those pesky Aussies..... go for it........LoL...

[Jac Mac]

Nah Gerald, being a true leader and a man of principle he has probably sleeved & destroked it back to 302 cu in as an example of the direction he feels they should heading in!!:):), you have to admire his dedication..

Dale, I am sorry I didnt get up to Icebreaker on saturday......the Mother-in Law needed some attention, and as I hope to inherit some money from her one day, decided to keep on her good side !!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Now I was browsing through the MyLaps timing on the computer, and couldnt help but notice that your times were a good bit adrift of what they usually are. I know the track wasnt wet, so I have to assume you were running in your new 900hp engine so you can deal to those pesky Aussies..... go for it........LoL...

[ERC]

Dale was running the #104 Mustang, not his usual #23. Pics of the complete grid (combined with HSS and U3L saloons) on Sunday afternoon's race, on my Mix of Pics thread.

[Sailone]

Love John's quote about taking your toys to heaven!
I don't have a muscle car, but I still had a heap of fun in my 62 Alfa Giulietta on Sat
Keith

[Spgeti]

Love John's quote about taking your toys to heaven!
I don't have a muscle car, but I still had a heap of fun in my 62 Alfa Giulietta on Sat
Keith

Welcome Keith.

It was good to catch up with you on Saturday and your little Alfa looked a darling out there amongst the Morris Oxford, Standard 10 and Speedwell A30.

Glad you enjoyed yourself.

Cheers

Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

As one of the HMC directors, I was personally a little disappointed with the turnout of cars at the Ice Breaker. As anyone who has ever started or run a racing class knows, it’s a hugely intensive job, in which you give up a lot of your spare time, evenings and weekends, working for free, and essentially trying to do something for other people. You rarely get any thanks, generally you get more criticism from people telling you what you’re doing wrong, how your rules should be changed, your race format etc. That’s all to be expected, and I don’t have a problem with that. It comes with the territory. I do think you probably have to be a little bit crazy to want to do this, but if nobody stepped up to the plate to run all these classes, where would we be?

There have been some interesting suggestions on this thread in recent days as to what the issues might be, including the rules, the race structure etc. I personally don’t think the rules are the problem. If they were, there would be no HMC cars whatsoever. Instead, after just four years, we currently have 25 HMC (over 3,000cc muscle cars) cars that are all 100% legal to the rules, with another 8-10 currently being built. This is just in the North Island. Those are pretty respectable numbers considering every single car on the HMC grid, bar none, has had to have some sort of investment be made in order to comply. For some it was a set of 15” wheels, tyres, and new brakes. For others it was building or buying an entire race car. And that’s just the HMC cars, not the HSC cars.

We’ve always maintained that with these types of muscle cars, being big, powerful, lethargic, slightly clumsy, and needing a lot of track space because of the amount of movement they have on bias-ply tyres, that we ideally only want grid sizes of 26-30 cars. Any more and all you have is a traffic jam, with people tripping over each other. So in that respect, we’re well on track to hit those numbers.

As for the HSC cars, their numbers were right down. But that’s to be expected, HMC has only just officially taken over the running of this class, and the fact is, a lot of people who own T&C and Schedule K cars aren’t even aware yet that there is now a dedicated class for them. Fortunately, Bruce Dyer is on the case, and will be getting very pro-active in letting people know this.

So yes, a frustrating weekend, but still some positives to be had. There is a core group of people in HMC who love to go racing, enjoy each others company, enjoy shooting the bull between races, and having a beer afterwards. And they turn up and race at every HMC event. We just need to grow this group. It might also be time to address the HMC calendar, as its clear people aren’t supporting this event. The reasons are fairly typical of any racing class: “I’ve just got too much on at the moment” etc etc. But we need to get to the crux of why it is people have time to race at the Festival, where no doubt we’ll have a very full grid, but they don’t have time to race at the smaller events.

[ERC]

As you say Steve, a tough call. Even with your existing 25 cars or adding the extra 10 maybes, the chances of getting a viable grid let alone a full grid, with an average of a 50% turn out, is very slim for the foreseeable future. I think you'll find that even with 36 cars, they won't be 'tripping over each other', certainly not in any scratch race. By sticking to a scratch race format, you run the risk of people not supporting a series if they are made to feel inferior by virtue of performance/buck spent.

I don't agree that the calendar date of Ice Breaker is a valid reason, as a few years ago, we had our best ever turn out at this event other than the 2015 Festival. Other classes don't seem to have an issue either. We had a 50% turnout with several overseas at the Goodwood Revival, others overseas working or on holiday, not to mention the 'cars not ready', 'can't afford its'. What was your turnout at the other meetings last season? The season before? Are numbers increasing, decreasing or static?

If I were to invest in a Muscle Car, I think that if I was in my prime as opposed to be in my dotage, I'd want a few more opportunities to race, not fewer.

Poll your drivers and find out the truth. We did and the results were as follows. Some wanted more one day events, some wanted more two day events, some preferred Saturdays, some preferred Sundays, so whatever you do, a sizeable percentage will not or cannot participate. Add breakdowns, parts supply issues, workshop delays and increasingly, financial pressures, family pressures etc., and no wonder numbers are often low. All that means is you need more drivers/cars to start with or you have to accept that running with another class is inevitable, no excuses.

No-one could have done more to publicise the class, what it stands for and why, than the directors and the H & C Commission/MSNZ. That can only mean that the target market is too small, or the concept needs addressing. Only the existing drivers can tell you why they didn't support the meeting - or any meeting, but if you are going to poll them, the least you can do is ask them about the future dates in the calendar - Yes? No? Maybe?

If the numbers are likely to low, then you owe it to the promoters or organisers to say so in advance, as with Tony Quin now owning HD, whoever organises a meeting will be paying full price and each meeting will have to run at a profit, or the pricing will have to be per grid.

If the HMC/U3L/HSS grid or grids are low and they are not buying a grid, then I predict a backlash from the other competitors in larger grids, who will effectively be subsidising the smaller grids. Commercial reality has to be a major priority now as costs rise. Don't expect the owners of cheapish run of the mill BMWs, Peugeots or MGBs to support the drivers with $60,000+ investments.

This may not improve your numbers, but it does mean that you may have to seriously consider the alternatives as to who you are prepared to race with.

I don't expect agreement with any or all of the above as I am just an outsider, but they are debatable observations, in the hope that the class doesn't fall over and all the effort wasted.

[Rod Grimwood]

$$$$$
is one answer, and not all of us have a heap at this present time, but the good thing is, times do change.
I thought when children grew up and couple up that's it, but apparently not.
AMCO has one answer, which I think is common, and these people need looking after, as they looked after us.

[John McKechnie]

Nah Gerald, being a true leader and a man of principle he has probably sleeved & destroked it back to 302 cu in as an example of the direction he feels they should heading in!!, you have to admire his dedication.


Jack- just remember what Paul Fahey said- cubic money will always beat cubic capacity

[AMCO72]

Now that is smart............and probably true. Sort of makes the old saying.....'theres no substitute for cu inches'..obsolete.

[touringcarfan]

I am going to go out on a limb here.

Maybe `Icebreaker` is not prestigious enough, whereas the `Festival` is. Imagine that HMS were invited to race at the Supercar meet each year. I have a fair idea how that entry list might look!

Also there was a very visible difference in car speed at HD on the weekend. Maybe some guys don`t fancy getting beaten by a country mile?

Dale, I appreciate what you out there trying to achieve, however can you definitively state that ALL your registered drivers are out to achieve the same?

Anthony Sampson

[Steve Holmes]

Brilliant photo I found while rifling through a couple of collections sent to me years ago by Steve Twist, of Red Dawson cranking on some over-steer in his Shelby Mustang. Of course, this car was sold to David Bowden in Queensland many years ago, but more recently, returned to New Zealand when purchased off David by Nigel MacDonald.

Nigel has since raced the Mustang with Historic Muscle Cars on a couple of occasions, but it was painted in its less familiar plain white, as supplied by Shelby (as it was when it went to Bowden's), and as raced by Frank Bryan during its first season in NZ.

Nigel has since put the Mustang through a complete body restoration, where it'll be returned to its more recognizable, and more popular brilliant metallic blue colour, as it appeared when owned by Red Dawson.

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[DewiAusTransAm]

Muscle Car Masters Highlights Video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJTUT5PZzlg

[Kiwiboss]

Considering the wet conditions at the start of the day both HMC and HSC had a fantastic days racing yesterday, TACCOC gave us great support and there one day format seems to suit those with busy lives. It was great to see new comer to HMC Richie Malam in his 66 Mustang Fastback, first time ever to motorsport and was attached by the low key fun that HMC produces, he said making sure everyone has compliant cars was an attraction for him as well. Glen Allingham, after racing in Australia ran his 70 Camaro for the first time on NZ soil qualifying 2nd in the wet, Glen only picked his Camaro up from the shippers Friday evening after special clearance release by MAF, great effort Glen considering the others in HMC whom have going cars in their garage but every excuse in the world? Was also great to have Keith Sinclair back in the mighty Hemi Cuda, amazingly in wet conditions he qualified pole and had a huge spin on the back straight in the first race, no damage just wet undies!! he went on to have a great days racing and set fastest time. Pete Stevenson and Glen Allingham had a great last race battle in dry conditions as the weather cleared, Keith Sinclair was right on their tail waiting for a mistake and unbelievable Hillsy Hills in his very quick Mk2 Escort was just a couple of car lengths back waiting for all 3 to trip up with John Sampson right on him. Overall and fantastic FUN day and one thing I noticed, NO angry people and great comradery.

[Kiwiboss]

A few more pictures, thanks to HMC Photographer Phil Noble, I still don't know what he looks like as he's always got a camera to his face, LOL enjoy,

[Kiwiboss]

A few more pit shots from yesterday, the Allingham gang just about out numbered everyone!! they bring a new level of what is known as the FUN team!! Glen and Pete shake hands after a fantastic last race side by side battle, this is what we are about :)

[Kiwiboss]

Third from the left is Sean McCaughan who has just purchased Glens XY Falcon to race in HMC, Sean was down for the day to see what its about and meet the other racers. Sean is another new comer to Motorsport and only having no licence stopping him from racing yesterday, HMC seems to be attracting newbies to our sport. Sean welcome on-board.

[Kiwiboss]

The 3 HMC directors from left, Tony Roberts, Myself(Dale Mathers) and Steve Holmes, Steve drove all the way from Carterton just for this event plus so the 3 of us could get together to continue to plan the future of HMC, we have an unwavering commitment to making sure HMC works, and with the attraction of new racers/people coming on-board and other cars in the pipeline we can see a great future ahead for this and historic racing in NZ. Missing from this picture is Bruce Dyer the new HSC director.

Another great Phil Noble photo.

[Steve Holmes]

Great pics Dale, was a fun day. The sun even made an appearance!

[John McKechnie]

Historic Sports Sedans didnt run at Puke due to the noise and not having the long back straight.
We have been offered a place at the next TACCOC meeting at Hampton Downs November 1 and we are inviting only HMC cars, to join us for a joint outing .
Should be a neat fit and this Historic Tintop outing should be a ton of fun.

[Kiwiboss]

I am going to go out on a limb here.

Maybe `Icebreaker` is not prestigious enough, whereas the `Festival` is. Imagine that HMS were invited to race at the Supercar meet each year. I have a fair idea how that entry list might look!

Also there was a very visible difference in car speed at HD on the weekend. Maybe some guys don`t fancy getting beaten by a country mile?

Dale, I appreciate what you out there trying to achieve, however can you definitively state that ALL your registered drivers are out to achieve the same?

Anthony Sampson

Hi Anthony, thanks for posting your thoughts on here mate, and its always great to see you, dad John, mum, Gareth and Scott yesterday!! the Sampson family are very passionate historic saloon car racers and great for HMC, and its great to hear the red Capri will soon be back on track with its correct 4 speed fitted and COD application done, luv the commitment.

This is what most saw at yesterdays wet TACCOC event

Dale M

[Spgeti]

Between the Alingham and Sampson Families it certainly shows their passion and love of motorsport. Both Families made me so welcome and leaves such a good feeling in HMC/HSC. Thank you Guy's. Cheers, Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

Historic Muscle Cars are finally branching out to other parts of the North Island, with plans to run alongside Historic Saloon Cars at the 2016 MG Classic, at Manfeild. Lots of time to prepare, and drum up interest, and, more importantly, put on a great show for those in the lower North Island who haven't yet seen HMC. Watch this space.

[Kiwiboss]

Here's the latest pictures of Nigel MacDonald's ex Dawson Shelby Trans Am Mustang. He's still waiting for the engine but I can confirm he will be racing it at the Festival in January and the other good news is the Neil Tolich will also be racing the Fleetwood Mustang, how long has it been since these two dinosaurs raced together?

[Kiwiboss]

The Tolich Family Fleetwood Mustang, HMC is the class designed for to bring these monsters to life :)

[John McKechnie]

And all going well we can sights like these out there again
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[Shoreboy57]

Here's the latest pictures of Nigel MacDonald's ex Dawson Shelby Trans Am Mustang.

Doesn't that look great!

[GD66]

Here's the latest pictures of Nigel MacDonald's ex Dawson Shelby Trans Am Mustang. He's still waiting for the engine but I can confirm he will be racing it at the Festival in January and the other good news is the Neil Tolich will also be racing the Fleetwood Mustang, how long has it been since these two dinosaurs raced together?



Probably 1968, after Bryan crashed in the wet at Bay Park at Easter, Red bought the car not long after that.


BTW, without wishing to be a rivet-counter, the outlines on the gold 35 on the doors were bright yellow...
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31028

Mike Feisst pic.

[Andrew Metford]

…….BTW, without wishing to be a rivet-counter,….

Nothing wrong with being a rivet-counter, I get accused of being that regularly with my motorcycle restoration I'm doing :)

[Spgeti]

Here's the latest pictures of Nigel MacDonald's ex Dawson Shelby Trans Am Mustang. He's still waiting for the engine but I can confirm he will be racing it at the Festival in January and the other good news is the Neil Tolich will also be racing the Fleetwood Mustang, how long has it been since these two dinosaurs raced together?

Congratulations Dale on attracting these 2 significant historic NZ Mustangs to the grid for the upcoming Festival. What a fantastic addition. I look forward to this and hope that we can attract a few more historic cars to our joint HMC/HSC grid. To the owners thank you in having trust in Dale and his team and we will treasure and respect your cars.

Cheers and Thanks

Bruce

[Kiwiboss]

Probably 1968, after Bryan crashed in the wet at Bay Park at Easter, Red bought the car not long after that.


BTW, without wishing to be a rivet-counter, the outlines on the gold 35 on the doors were bright yellow...[ Mike Feisst pic.

No problem GD66, numbers would have been painted on back then so Nigel understands it wont be "totally" correct with modern day stickers an all, but its close enough for viewing that when out on the track racing most of the public wouldn't know the difference, i guess we can all agree(sorry, not everyone) that at least its the real car, so how good is that :)

Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

Congratulations Dale on attracting these 2 significant historic NZ Mustangs to the grid for the upcoming Festival. What a fantastic addition. I look forward to this and hope that we can attract a few more historic cars to our joint HMC/HSC grid. To the owners thank you in having trust in Dale and his team and we will treasure and respect your cars.

Cheers and Thanks

Bruce

Yes Bruce, imagine if John gets the Monaro going and Bruce turns up in the Pontiac and then Tony Auntonovich rocks along in the ex Marwood Camaro, yeah OK "slap slap" stop dreaming Daleboy :) get yar hand off it!!

[John McKechnie]

Dale, Dale, Dale- there is no IF with the Monaro.
One bad choice cost me a year and a fistfull to get it right.
It will be there.
The cars you mention all have the possibility of being on the track together.
No comment on the unmentioned one(s).or your hand being on it.............assume you mean the stick shift
After all it was not that long ago people used to dream of seeing Sports Sedans running again.

[GD66]

[QUOTE=Kiwiboss;49329 most of the public wouldn't know the difference, i guess we can all agree(sorry, not everyone) that at least its the real car, so how good is that :)
Dale M[/QUOTE]



Freakin' awesome mate, and to see it roll out beside the Fleetwood car should bring a tear to the eye of any Red Dawson fan. He wasn't everyone's cup of tea by any means but he was very spectacular, a tough bugger and much loved in the crowd in spite of his less-than-effusive nature. For years a good solid rev-out of a motor was known as a "Red Dawson tune-up" to many and it was a shame to see his career wind up after that terrifying crash at Manfield. So big thanks to both owners and all involved in getting the two cars back out there.

[928]

Historic Sports Sedans didnt run at Puke due to the noise and not having the long back straight.
We have been offered a place at the next TACCOC meeting at Hampton Downs November 1 and we are inviting only HMC cars, to join us for a joint outing .
Should be a neat fit and this Historic Tintop outing should be a ton of fun.
John,
I understand not racing at Puke without the long straight but what exactly is the noise issue you mentioned please?

[ERC]

For the last year or two, apparently there have been a couple of moaning locals (one of whom inherited their property) and they enforce a 95db noise reading TRACKSIDE, not at the boundary.

This has caught out a few people who had to either silence their cars further or go home. Sadly, 95db is not particularly loud and is a level that is enforced on road cars going through the LVVTA system, so you can imagine the problems with a race car. My V8 Magnette road car is exactly 95db at 3,000rpm.

The fact that open air music concerts can often be between 110db and 120db doesn't help. Most motorsport is done and dusted by 6pm anyway and we all know that a 12 minute race with 3 or maybe 4 races an hour, often with road cars that are relatively quiet, means that the noise is neither constant nor likely to ruin anyone's evenings or sleep, but there we are.

There is no such restriction at Hampton Downs and famously, Tony Roberts had a 24 hour monitoring at Hampton Downs and the loudest noise recorded was the dawn chorus of dickie birds at 6am, not the cars!

Hampton Downs apartment owners have a condition in their purchase agreements that they cannot object to either the noise on the track, the prison or the landfill.

[John McKechnie]

928.......Sports Sedans dont have mufflers and therefore are loud
. TACCOC said that some cars even with mufflers were still excessive at recent events at Pukekohe.
HSS have never really planned on running at Puke, but are very grateful for TACCOCs offer to run at Hampton Downs which have no restrictions.
Simply put, no point in the guys spending a lot of money to maybe comply for only one day a year.

[928]

Thanks John and ERC. as I thought one tosser ruining things for a lot of people. Still you did the right thing John, and voted with your feet, sorry that should be car transporter. had I been taking part I would write to the organisers and let them know your feelings. THEY are losing a venue, and the idiot will win.

[John McKechnie]

TACCOC were the organizers of this meeting and I am grateful for their imput before the race meeting leading to this decision, they have no fault here.
All of us involved know the risks of noise at a race meeting ,TACCOC dont make this noise level rule-it is a Council/Pukekohe Race Track responsibility matter.
This has been discussed on another thread here.

[ERC]

Although Pukekohe has only been in operation for cars since 1963, it seems that there are still people who move to the area and complain, yet I doubt that any of them would be unaware of the track's existence. (I was only 17 when it opened and on the other side of the world, but I knew about it!)

When the Aussie V8 agreement expires in a couple of year's time, one can only guess at the track's future, even though apparently they have a licence until 2021.

Meanwhile, to be denied seeing cars that were part and parcel of those early days is not only unfortunate, but had it been some sort of ethnic history being denied, no doubt there would be mass demonstrations and sit ins...

[John McKechnie]

This is the Tin Top field running at Hampton Downs next Sunday 1st November.
Its a good mix of our well known Historics- Sports Sedans and Muscle Cars
Peter Hooper Toyota Starlet
Dennis Running Mazda RX8 V8
Graeme Addis Chrysler Charger 770
Dale Mathers Ford Mustang Boss 302
Adrian Dobbe Vauxhall Viva
Peter Stevenson Ford Mustang
Glenn Allingham Chevrolet Camaro
Richard Malam Ford Mustang
Roger Davis Holden Torana SLR5000
Mitch Mexted Ford Capri
Ivan Bevins Ford Falcon XBGT
John Dennehy Ford Escort Mk1
John McKechnie Ford Falcon XA Coupe
Heres hoping the weather will be kind to us as its a fun looking field for the spectators to enjoy.

[Spgeti]

Great start John and one car that I am looking forward to see running.....Ivan Bevins in the ex Pullman XB GT Coupe

[ERC]

Good grid. Looking forward to it all continuing to strengthen. I'll try and get some photographs, but with two groups and 4 handicap races to sort, not a lot of spare time, so it will probably be practice only!

[John McKechnie]

Yes, great looking HSS grid -7-with 6 invited HMC
Would liked to have Barry Algie there with the Monaro- however he is shifting house and operations so he is not ready.
Gordon Burr with the Alfetta is still waiting for his motor- previous block was cracked , so all internal to be swapped over.
Richard Quin- Starlet-still waiting for his gearbox to be done
Robert Jack, Roger Williams, Rodney Holland are out of the country.

Would have been an excellent opportunity for the Sidchrome Mustang to come out and run with other pure HSS and COD cars.............

[Kiwiboss]

Good grid. Looking forward to it all continuing to strengthen. I'll try and get some photographs, but with two groups and 4 handicap races to sort, not a lot of spare time, so it will probably be practice only!

This not an official HMC event, the few HMC cars are only their to help support John and his HSS grid!!

Dale M

[Rod Grimwood]

Thanks Dale, good stuff. Hopefully a few more after repairs etc.

[Kiwiboss]

Was a fantastic day yesterday supporting HSS, im sure they appreciated it. Not an official HMC meeting but we had 6 cars with one new one along. Great weather as well and all our racing went without incidents. Once again we had NO angry people, everyone had a smile and left happy.

[Kiwiboss]

Graeme Pearce's new HMC Capri out for the first time after a major build, he started out building it with no real direction in mind until HMC came along hence had to undo a few items to make it comply. Went very well out of the box but more important it has very nice attention to detail, a great addition to the class.

[woody]

Graeme, Your cars presentation was a credit to you and your team. Gear selector problems a small glitch.

[Steve Holmes]

Love that new Capri Perana!

[Kiwiboss]

Graeme, Your cars presentation was a credit to you and your team. Gear selector problems a small glitch.

Not only that, around Hampton in a best of 1:17.2 out of the box, that's impressive and will only improve!!

[ERC]

Will have a pic or two on my "Mix of Pics" thread shortly.

[John McKechnie]

This is how the rest of the field saw Graemes car, and how quick it was-
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[John McKechnie]

And of course this is how Dale saw his car as he was blasting through the field- though for the first time his was not the highest HP Ford, that was Ivan Bevins
31349

[Kiwiboss]

Will have a pic or two on my "Mix of Pics" thread shortly.

Great to see the "Mighty Marcos" cruzing the pits yesterday Ray :)