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Steve Holmes
04-16-2012, 09:15 PM
7345

I’ve begun to notice a pattern. I have a fascination with race cars that were ultimately unsuccessful in competition, either through poor design, poor execution, or just a lack of financial commitment. Where does the beautiful Ford P68/69 (also known as the F3L) fall in that list?

The P68 was penned by Len Bailey, who was also responsible for the Ford Motor Company funded Can-Am efforts, the Honker II of 1967, and the Open Sports Ford (http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?53-The-Open-Sports-Ford), of 1969, the Honker II having been campaigned by Holman-Moody. And the family resemblance between all three designs is clear to see. Interestingly, all three cars suffered from a lack of funding, a lack of commitment, a lack of race and testing miles, and never reached their true potential.

The Ford F3L (F3L relating to this being a Ford 3 litre), in concept, was a good idea. With Ford money, Bailey design, and the cars built and campaigned by Alan Mann Racing, it was created for the new FIA prototype sports car regulations for 1968, which required a maximum 3,000cc for competition based motors, or 5,000cc for stock block production based motors.

The F3L was built around an F1 Ford DVF V8, backed by a Hewland trans-axle. Unlike the Lotus 49 F1 car, the motor wasn’t used as a stressed-member. It featured a very short wheelbase. The bodywork was incredibly low, and extremely slippery. It was suggested the shape of the car would allow it to reach 200mph, with just 200hp. However, although unquestionably very sleek, and potentially very fast in a straight line, its complete lack of spoilers, splitters, or anything else to aid in downforce, made it almost impossible to drive anywhere near the limit.

Two cars were built by Alan Mann Racing with the intention of it entering the BOAC 500, at Brands Hatch, in April 1968. Mann himself was said to be a little sceptical of the cars design, and its lack of downforce aids. He approached John Surtees about racing the car in the Nurburgbring 1000kms in May 1968, but Surtees wanted to test it first, ahead of its Brands Hatch debut. He suggested young up and comer Chris Irwin as his co-driver. However, in testing at Goodwood, both Surtees and Irwin were alarmed by its handling, and found it quite unpredictable. Surtees wanted to do further testing before the Nurburgring, but was told this was not possible, due to there being a shortage of available DFV motors, as Cosworth favoured supplying Formula 1 teams. So, with that, Surtees withdrew his offer to race the car, but Irwin, still working his way up the motorsport ladder, decided to continue with it regardless.

Race 1. BOAC 500, Brands Hatch, April 1968. Two F3L’s were constructed for the BOAC 500, the second car being finished only just in time for the race. Drivers were Jochen Rindt/Mike Spence, and Bruce McLaren/Denny Hulme. McLaren/Hulme were an eleventh hour substitute for Jim Clark/Graham Hill, as both instead raced in an F2 event at Hockenheim for Lotus, where Clark was killed.

McLaren qualified second for the BOAC 500, but the Rindt/Spence car was withdrawn when its DFV failed, and the team had no spares. So Spence was teamed with McLaren for the race in the remaining car. After a slow start, McLaren moved forward, and was leading the race by the first round of pit stops, but Spence retired a short time later with a broken driveshaft.

Steve Holmes
04-16-2012, 09:17 PM
7344

Race 2. Nurburgring 1000kms, May 1968. On to the Nurburgring, and the two cars were to be driven by Pedro Rodriguez/Chris Irwin, Richard Attwood/Frank Gardner. On telling Surtees he wished to race the car at the Nurburgring, Surtees suggested he drive the car well within his comfort zone. Irwin agreed, and was travelling through Flugplatz when the car suddenly veered sideways on one of the rises, landed on its side, and Irwin suffered severe head injuries, never to race again.

In the remaining car, Attwood pitted twice with various mechanical issues, including the loss of a front brake retaining clip, the drivers door flying open, and a puncture, and was a lap down after just three laps! A short time later, its DFV motor failed.

Following the Nurburgring race, Alan Mann mechanics dismantled the Irwin car, convinced it was somehow cursed. Jim Clark was to have driven this same car on that fateful day on April 7. And Mike Spence, who co-drove it with McLaren at Brands Hatch, was killed at Indy a month later in the Lotus 56 gas-turbine car.

Race 3. Spa 1000kms, May 1968. The sole remaining F3L was to be raced at Spa, by Frank Gardner/Hubert Hahne. Here, on the high speed Spa layout, the sleek Ford really showed its true potential, with Gardner taking pole position by a massive 4sec over Jack Ickx’s Ford GT40. However, it was raining when the race began, and the F3L, which had never been driven in the wet (!) pitted at the end of lap 1, after the cool air ducts for the engine had directed water over the electrics.

Race 4. RAC TT, Oulton Park, June 1968. Richard Attwood was entered in the F3L for Oulton Park, and took pole position, but clearly expected his car to fail, as he’d also entered to co-drive the David Piper Ferrari P3/4 in the same race! Sure enough, after leading for 10 laps, Attwood stopped with diff failure, but went on to finish second in Pipers Ferrari, less than 10sec behind the winning Hulme Lola T70.

Race 5. Martini Trophy, Silverstone, July 1968. Gardner was entered for Silverstone, and qualified second behind Hulmes Lola, but led away from the start, and continued to do so for the first 41 laps, while Hulme spun, trying to keep pace. But the engine lost oil pressure, and Gardner retired from a 16sec lead, and that was the last time the F3L raced in 1968.

Race 6. BOAC 500, Brands Hatch, April 1969. A second F3L (the P69) was built over winter, this being a ‘spyder’ open top model, to back the remaining P68. To help with downforce, the Fords sprouted tall rear suspension mounted aerofoils. The roadster, to be driven by Gardner/Jack Brabham, didn’t make it beyond practice, when it lost an engine. After a driver re-shuffle (Gardner took the place of Masten Gregory alongside Hulme), the remaining car completed just 14 laps before it too suffered engine failure.

Race 7. Martini Trophy, Silverstone, May 1969. The final race for the Ford F3L, and only the P68 was entered for Gardner, who put the car on pole. But in the race, he didn’t get beyond the warm-up lap, as rain once again fizzed the electrics, the car misfired badly, and was retired.

And that was the extent of the Ford F3L’s competition life. Following failures in F1 with the tall suspension mounted aerofoils, the FIA moved to ban these aids in both Formula 1 and sport prototype racing (but not in Can-Am until 1970), and with the new P69 spyder, and the P68 now heavily reliant on these wings, the F3L’s were retired from further competition.

The F3L entered seven races, and finished none. But it took pole position in three of these races, and showed it had true potential. Surtees had misgivings over the cars unpredictable handling, and lack of downforce. He felt it would have benefitted hugely from being several inches longer in the wheelbase. But its problems extended well beyond its basic design. Improvements could, and were made, to the car during its short competition life, but because it suffered from a lacking of funding, and a short-fall of available, healthy, DFV motors, Alan Mann Racing were forced to do all their testing at the races, which is never a good thing to do.

The Ford F3L, in concept, was a good car, and it showed, in moments of brilliance, just how good it could have been. It was designed as a Formula 1 car clothed in a sports car body, using the mighty DFV motor, Hewland 5-speed gearbox, and F1 type suspension. But no race car, regardless of its potential, can become a winner when the funds aren’t there to develop it properly, and this was a shortfall the F3L would never overcome.

Powder
04-17-2012, 12:13 AM
I think Gavin Bain had one of the cars in Christchurch for a while. I don't know if it ever ran while here. I think it was 'just' a trade-in on one of his cars, the 4.5lt Ferrari maybe?

Malcolm.

Steve Holmes
04-17-2012, 12:32 AM
Yep, thats right. I believe they went from Alan Mann to Tom Wheatcroft, who swapped one to Bain for the Alfa Romeo Bimotore, or Bimotore parts.

Parnelli
04-17-2012, 01:13 AM
Hey Steve, Now you’re talking about real cars . I too , suffer from this attraction to old race cars, many of which were unsuccessful in their day. Must be a hang over from our hot rodding youth ! As well as the ones you mentioned I have an itch I’d love to scratch in the form of a Ford G7A. Similarly unsuccessful, but what a horny looking car. I’ve tried on several occasions to contact Kerry Agapiou to find out at what stage the restoration of the only remaining example is , but not luck. I guess dreams are free

Steve Holmes
04-17-2012, 08:22 PM
Yeah Dave, I think you're right there! I'm also really interested in the G7A. I'm pretty sure the Agapiou bros also ran the Open Sports Ford that appeared in the last two races of the '69 Can-Am. Like all the Ford supported efforts, they seldom raced, and lacked testing miles. Do you know who designed and built the G7A?

Parnelli
04-17-2012, 10:27 PM
Hi Steve, I have spent a reasonable amount of time trying to find out details on it’s build but there is not a lot out there. After Ford’s first brief encounter in unlimited sports car racing with the X1 ( basically a Mk 1 alloy chassis, with roof less Mk 11 long nose body panels, 427 auto trans – driven on several occasions by Chris Amon ) they decided to try again by using same of the left over J-car / Mk 1V chassis. I believe it was Kar Kraft designed / built and ran with a number of different engines – 427 , 429 , 494 Alloy all with a 100% record. It retired from every event over 2 seasons of Can Am racing , although between the 2 seasons it was shipped to Japan and finished 2nd at Mt Fuji. Given the distinguish list of drivers it’s was given ever chance of achieving better results – John Cannon, Jack Brabham, George Follmer, David Hobbs, Lee Roy Yarbough, Vic Elford, Peter Revson, so we can only assume that it was the usual lack of finances for development that was to blame. There are varying reports as to the history of the race chassis - J 10 ( some say it was stolen and cut up ) but last I heard was that Kerry Agapiou still has the unraced chassis ( J 9 ) and is reported to be completing that to G7A specifications. I can’t comment on the Open Sports Ford as I know even less about that one. Maybe JacMac has more info ?

Steve Holmes
04-18-2012, 03:53 AM
I think all the Ford backed Can-Am programs are so hard to find info about because they were so fleeting. In the '60s, when Ford went racing, it did so on a grand scale, and ultimately won through spending money and contracting the right people. Think of the Ford GT40/MkII/MkIV Le Mans effort, plus their multi-car teams in Nascar and Trans-Am, and their funding of the DFV F1 motor. Plus, to a lesser extent, the Cobra and Mustang GT350 in production sports car racing.

So when word spread of them entering the Can-Am in 1967 with three 2-car teams, everyone took notice. In the end, their efforts were hugely disappointing, with the Holman-Moody run Honker II, plus the Shelby American King Cobra single car efforts. The Shelby car ran only the final two rounds, and achieved nothing. The Honker II, at least, managed to be ready for the start of the season, but its results were poor, and it vanished again after round 2, reappearing for round 5 where Andretti managed to qualify fifth, which was the high point of its career.

Ford then vanished again until 1969, when the Agapiou bros appeared with the G7A, which was based on a 2 year old Ford MkIV. It usually qualified around 10sec off pole, although it managed to get within 6sec at Elkhart Lake. But it only raced sporadically. My understanding is that the Agapiou bros raced the Open Sports Ford, which appeared in the final two races of 1969, so I wonder if maybe the G7A was a stand-in until the OSF arrived? The OSF finished third at Texas, which was the best result in the Can-Am for a Ford race car.

In fact, they did better when they put their own engines into the back of Lola and McLaren customer chassis' such as Dan Gurneys McLeagle, and Mario Andretti's Holman-Moody run 494ci Boss powered McLaren M6B.

Overall, their efforts in the Can-Am fell well short of peoples expectations, given the way they'd approached other forms of motorsport. Its hard to even know if the cars they supported, the Honker II, Shelby King Cobra, G7A, and Open Sports Ford, even had race winning potential, because they all raced so fleetingly, and quickly vanished again.

7353

kiwi285
04-18-2012, 04:43 AM
This was one car that I really had the hots for when it arrived in the scene. And we had one in NZ for a while - amazing.

nzboss
04-18-2012, 06:16 AM
Have I understood it correctly; Was there a G7A in NZ?

The biggest problem I have always understood with the F3L was that the DFV was not suitable for endurance racing.
This was the story often quoted back in the day anyways....
But what an awesome looking car!

Interesting post Steve.

pallmall
04-18-2012, 06:38 AM
Have I understood it correctly; Was there a G7A in NZ?

The biggest problem I have always understood with the F3L was that the DFV was not suitable for endurance racing.
This was the story often quoted back in the day anyways....
But what an awesome looking car!

Interesting post Steve.

No an F3L, swapped for the Alfa Bimotore. Now back overseas.

Yes the DFV at that stage was not developed for long distance racing, it was still vibrating the rivets out of F1 cars when the F3L was built, Ford were never really behind the development of the car and the costs were down to Alan Mann racing. There was an interview with Alan Mann published in a recent Motor Sport magazine just before he died that covered a bit about the F3L.
I kind of like a lot of the stuff that Len Bailey designed, but so much of it was never given the funding for development it deserved, F3L and a couple of Can-Am cars for starters.

Steve Holmes
04-18-2012, 06:41 AM
No, it wasn't the G7A which spent time in NZ, it was one of the F3L's, although they apparently don't have serial numbers, so its anyones guess as to which one it was. Re the Ford DFV, John Surtees wrote a very interesting article about 15 years ago on the F3L's, and the argument the DFV wasn't suitable for endurance sports car racing. But his personal opinion was that they would have been fine, provided the revs were turned down some on what was generally used in F1. When he ran his own F1 team, which he was doing on a tight budget, he did this to try and eek out as much life as he could from his motors, and said he was often able to get 1500 racing miles between rebuilds.

superford
04-18-2012, 07:37 AM
Found these on the web a couple of weeks back - taken by a Ford staff member outside Kar Kraft in 1969

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/CanAM2a.jpg

The yellow car is the background is the one off special car built for the then Ford President Bunkie Knudsen - a 1969 Ford Torino Talladega

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/canAma.jpg

superford
04-18-2012, 07:55 AM
And seeing this really is an F3L thread;

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/Ford3l_9.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/Ford3l_56.jpg

Parnelli
04-18-2012, 06:59 PM
Hi Superford,

Thanks for posting the photos of the OSF and the G7A. The shots outside Kar Kraft are by far the best I have ever seen of the G7A. With Mustangs , Torino, T Bird etc in the background they are just a couple of fantastic period shots. I stumbled across a site a few years ago of a chap building up a F3L from scratch. It was incredibly detailed showing all facets of the construction but unfortunately I have lost track of it. Anyone out there know of it ?

pallmall
04-18-2012, 08:52 PM
The copy build is on TNF along with quite a bit of info on the David Piper copy car and an attempt to work out what is real and what is not.

Steve Holmes
04-18-2012, 09:03 PM
Wow, those G7A pics are incredible! And the background is just as fascinating. I figure this must have been early in 1969, as the car later sprouted a suspension mounted aerofoil on the rear, as most of the cars from the '69 Can-Am had. But just look at the headers on that car, imagine how many hours would have gone into building those.

Steve Holmes
04-18-2012, 09:04 PM
The copy build is on TNF along with quite a bit of info on the David Piper copy car and an attempt to work out what is real and what is not.

I believe the car David Piper had built is slightly longer in the wheelbase.

aussiemonza
04-19-2012, 01:07 AM
Found these on the web a couple of weeks back - taken by a Ford staff member outside Kar Kraft in 1969

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/CanAM2a.jpg

The yellow car is the background is the one off special car built for the then Ford President Bunkie Knudsen - a 1969 Ford Torino Talladega

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/canAma.jpg

Is that Dan Gurney walking by in the suit?

Steve Holmes
04-19-2012, 01:18 AM
I wondered the same thing? He was a Ford driver in 1969, but raced his McLeagle in the Can-Am in '69. Maybe he was just checking out the G7A because he happened to be there at the time.

superford
04-19-2012, 09:34 AM
I fired up my scanner and got these out of Karl Ludvigsen's 'Can-Am Racing Cars' book;

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/G7A001_edited_3.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/G7a002_edited_2.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/G7a003_edited.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/G7a004_edited.jpg

superford
04-19-2012, 09:37 AM
And these two from Ronnie Spain's 'GT40 - An Individual History and Race Record';

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/G7a006_edited.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/G7a005_edited.jpg

Oldfart
04-19-2012, 05:35 PM
This was one car that I really had the hots for when it arrived in the scene. And we had one in NZ for a while - amazing.

You are not thinking of the car that the Baker Brothers built after the Herons are you? Was supposed to have been a very accurate copy/replica/tribute to the J/G7?

Parnelli
04-19-2012, 06:58 PM
You are not thinking of the car that the Baker Brothers built after the Herons are you? Was supposed to have been a very accurate copy/replica/tribute to the J/G7?

Hi Oldfart, I believe the car built by Ross Baker in Rotorua was copy of a Mk IV , not a G7A. Now believed to be overseas.

Steve Holmes
04-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Hey Superford, thanks for posting these, just amazing! What a waste, all that beautiful workmanship, and yet barely raced.

Wal Will
04-26-2012, 05:58 PM
Steve, I found these among my collection. Taken during the construction stage of the car you refer to as the X1.
Bruce was offered the job of converting a GT40 into an open top sports car, and although he considered the project to be rather a waste of time and effort, took on the task 'for the money'.
We had to partition off the end of the workshop (as the project was 'secret') and Gary Knutson and Howden Ganley were given the task of trying to get some weight out of the structure and try to make it competitive.
The in house name for the car was 'Big Ed.' (as it was considered to be another 'Edsel' in Fords history) and the guys slaved away behind closed doors for what seemed like months. In the bottom 2 photo's Howden was playing the clown and 'driving' using a welding helmet as a visor.

Steve Holmes
04-27-2012, 09:17 AM
Wow, these are wonderful photos Wal, thanks so much for posting them. I can only imagine the incredible collection of photos you must have!

What did they do to get weight out of Big Ed? Its my understanding much of the weight in a GT40 is within the main structure itself? I love how they came up with the nickname for it. Its great hearing these stories.

Chris Read
04-27-2012, 09:44 AM
I think Gavin Bain had one of the cars in Christchurch for a while. I don't know if it ever ran while here. I think it was 'just' a trade-in on one of his cars, the 4.5lt Ferrari maybe?

Malcolm.Yes, Gavin had one of these, that he got from the UK. I believe that they were too short and a nightmare to handle with the power. He had the car at the same place I had one of my cars in I think the 80's - getting some restoration done. I imagine he probably took it away from the place for the same reason I did - enough said - we both got taken. But I sat in it many times and it had a very nice feel. I am not sure that it saw the track here or not, but I was there in the Q as I had the real hots for it. Just took my fancy -small, British, a DFV, and rare and looked the part- had lots of switches also! Chris Read, Arrowtown.

Wal Will
04-27-2012, 12:07 PM
The tub of B.E. was aluminium to start with and the boys just got in and started hacking. Door hinges, whatever.
The trouble with Ford U.S. or U.K. doing anything 'In House' was the politics. Everyone on the corporate ladder was worried about their job, and failure of something that you had anything to do with gave your oponents amunition, so everything was over engineered.
If you had it done by an outside company then if it turned to custard you didn't get much splattered on your shoes.
I had forgotten the 'Auto transmission', the photo I posted before looks like (externally at least) a Hewland L.G. and we may well have done initial testing with that.
The 'Auto' was in reality no more than a torque convertor coupled to a 2 speed manual box. The same as we experimented with and Jim Hall used with some success.
The car would have to be put into 1st gear before the engine was started and then held on the brakes. It was then just let go the brakes and step on it, using a slight lift of the throttle to allow you to change gear.
We achieved quick times in practice, but the lag created by lifting off when racing another car would just kill corner speed.
The torque converor/fluid flywheel, and all the oil involved was quite a heavy spinning mass (mess on a couple of occasions).

jim short
04-27-2012, 11:49 PM
I think that car was owned by Ian Cummings in Sydney then in NZ ?? but 1987 was in the parade at Silverstone GP up and running the Baker mk 4 with hillman minx brakes!!!! and corvette motor David Manton sent to the USA,I had a short ride in it ,lovely to look at but???

Steve Holmes
04-28-2012, 04:04 AM
Thanks Wal, yes I'd heard that about the big car manufacturers, and Dan Gurney once said pretty well exactly the same thing when describing Chryslers efforts in the 1970 Trans-Am series. He said the various areas of the car were divided throughout the various divisions within Chrysler, so there was an engine division, a gearbox division, a rear-end division etc, and none of them communicated with each other, and every one of them was more interested in painting a glossy picture of their efforts than winning races. As he said, "you end up racing a camel with 16 humps".

What was the reason for developing the auto trans? Was it to speed up gear change times? I know Jim Hall used his to good effect, as it freed up his left foot so he could adjust the angle of downforce on his big rear flipper wing.

What ever happened to Big Ed?

pallmall
04-28-2012, 06:34 AM
What ever happened to Big Ed?

Turned into a MkII convertible by Shelby and won Sebring 12 hours in 1966, supposedly broken up, but rumours emerge from time to time that the chassis still exists.

Wal Will
04-28-2012, 08:45 AM
I have been contacted recently by a party who is supposedly well on the way to getting the car back to the track. From the requests I have gotten there must have been not much left of the original.
The work that we did - in conjunction with Ferguson R. & D. - was to evaluate the advantages, in case Jim was onto something. At the end of a fairly expensive exercise, it was decided that it was a dead end, and Jim himself gave up and went back to a more conventional transmission.
Jim did an amazing job of raising the hype. Before the body was raised on the 'Auto' cars a mechanic would worm his way under the car and padlock a bag over the transaxle. This was (like the 'Winged Keel' on the Australian yacht) enough to drive the media into a frenzy. There was absolutely nothing that could be learnt from seeing the outside of the box but it sure created some 'press'.

Steve Holmes
05-02-2012, 06:11 AM
I love that story Wal. Can-Am was typical of that sort of media showmanship.

So when you say "From the requests I have gotten there must have been not much left of the original", do you know what happened to the car in the years that followed? And the party that contacted you, are they returning it to "Big Ed" guise?

Wal Will
05-02-2012, 08:59 AM
I think it is to go back to 'Big Ed', but I will go through my mail and find the source and see if we can get him onboard to fill in the story, or at least his permission to use names.

Wal Will
05-02-2012, 10:40 AM
I have sent a message off, and fingers crossed we may get some imput from England. Meanwhile I found a couple of photo's of Big Ed in action in Dave Friedman's excellent book 'McLaren Sports Racing cars'.
The bottom photo is captioned Bruce McLaren laps the X1 while Chris looks on.

Steve Holmes
05-02-2012, 08:41 PM
Thanks so much Wal, that would really be great if we could find out more.

Steve Holmes
05-18-2012, 12:09 AM
A buddy of mine sent me this link, one of the F3Ls, the wrecked Nurburgring car, is for sale here: http://www.prewarcar.com/postwarclassic/classifieds/ad63500.html

ctduirf
09-13-2016, 01:16 AM
Actually , for a car that raced as little as the G7A did , it got an incredible amount of press while it was being built and developed . It was on the cover of at least Road & Track and one other magazine . It got written up in Hot Rod just so they could discuss it's engine . It even appeared in Car Model Magazine as an article and a set of general layout drawings in case you wanted to attempt to model it .
During this period it was still known by it's original name , the "Calliope" . The car was intended to have some very exotic equipment as shown in the article a few posts back . The dihedral wing was only one of the oddities . It was the special engine that was called the Calliope and gave the car it's name . It was a pushrod design with three valves per cylinder operated by two camshafts , both mounted in the block above the crankshaft .
The design was doomed from the start by the weight of the honeycomb construction MK 4 chassis . Immensely strong and durable it was an excellent chassis for an endurance car but was way too heavy to make a good "sprint" racer . This tendency for the parts to be over-built and too heavy for a sprint racer , Can Am car extended to things like the suspension arms , uprights , etc . The more parts they hung on the car the worse off they were .
As Kar Kraft struggled to build and develop the chassis , Ford's engine department was having no luck getting the Calliope to produce the expected horsepower and live . I have never see an Official statement but Most believe the early test running of the car was done with an injected iron-blocked 427 much like Lothar Motschenbacher was running in his M6 and M12 . This was the engine that was in the car when it first went out to the Agapiou brothers . All the photos of the car running under it's own power with the original bodywork and trick wing including the commonly seen photo of it in a banked turn were accomplished without the Calliope engine .
when the car left Fore it had the rounded nose . The squared off nose was always credited as done by the Agapious . The photos of the car on the lawn are interesting as they may imply the car was given to them with two noses and they first used the rounded one . The car on the lawn does appear to have the conventional FE type 427 in it . I am not sure they ever ran that car with a Boss in it .

John H
09-13-2016, 02:31 AM
I guess this is Wall Wilmott. I clearly remember you working on the RF brake of Bruce's car at Pukekohe in practice. I thought how great it must be to sit in the car while 2 guys worked on it! there is a photo somewhere. Just saying. :)

Jac Mac
09-13-2016, 02:35 AM
There were a few evolutions of the Auto Trans, two types in these pics. The one fitted in the car ( J- Car ) has Ron Fournier working on it.
I believe the people rebuilding the car Wal mentioned posted some pics some time ago on this site.

seaqnmac27
09-13-2016, 03:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AquI49zoaAo

Kenz
09-14-2016, 12:10 PM
There were a few evolutions of the Auto Trans, two types in these pics. The one fitted in the car ( J- Car ) has Ron Fournier working on it.
I believe the people rebuilding the car Wal mentioned posted some pics some time ago on this site.

Comparing the two auto boxes, the installed version is enormous.
Must have been a huge weight penalty to drag around, as well as the slush box inefficiency.

Jac Mac
09-14-2016, 07:29 PM
Comparing the two auto boxes, the installed version is enormous.
Must have been a huge weight penalty to drag around, as well as the slush box inefficiency.

The larger installed version has actual Auto Trans clutch packs & planetary gears IIRC, the other trans pictured uses dog engagement gears. The torque converter apparently was derived from a Ford falcon auto, probably to give a higher stall speed to match cam etc of engine. For scale purposes the final drive section is ~275mm long.