Ken Miles and CSX3002 427 Competition Cobra at Lakeside 1965

[nick_tassie]

I thought this sould have its own thread, the more I looked into Ken Miles running CSX3002 at Lakeside raceway for the Australian Tourist Trophy race in November of 1965, the more interesting stories and photo's I been able to find.

I've also read about some 8mm film footage of Miles running in the Cobra at Lakeside, it was converted to digital at some point and posted but I haven't been able to find it. Maybe someone has seen it or has a copy of it and can post it, be great to watch it.

Attached are just some photo's I've found on google images, there are some great shots of the Thorp 289 Cobra as well.

In one photo you can clearly see that CSX3002 had the rare dry sump 427 side oiler engine, the cap for the oil tank in the right hand front guard. Also of note is that the body looks to have started as a 289 by the shape of the radiator intake.

[pallmall]

An interesting car, came along right at the end of the factory competition era with Cobras, everything was dropped for the Ford GT40MkII for 1966. I guess Lakeside was its final race, at least in Shelby ownership. So far I haven't been able to find out what happened to it after Shelby. The car also cannot have done many races, with the 427 Cobra not being homologated the cars had to run with the sports-racing cars. From what I can find out it may have only participated in four meetings including Lakeside.

Here it is just before testing.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/003aStandarde-mailview.jpg

Its second race, and first with Miles at the wheel, late 1965 Riverside.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/003bStandarde-mailview.jpg

At Lakeside, November 1965.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/003Standarde-mailview.jpg

[Steve Holmes]

Good call Nick, definitely worth having its own thread. Who paid for the car and Miles to be sent to Aus? Did it race anywhere else other than Lakeside when in Aus?

[Steve Holmes]

Here are a couple more from the upcoming Lakeside chapter of the Bruce Wells Collection.

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[nick_tassie]

An interesting piece from a forum discussion on Miles running CSX3002 at Lakeside. Wonder what this computer was all about, would they have had simplistic engine, shocker or suspension data recorders in 65?? How on earth they might have sent data back to the US in those days is intriguing, fax/phone link!?! pigeon maybe! Has anyone else heard of this "computer" run by Shelby American and know of what data it recorded or how it even worked.

He was there that day as a guest from a relevant sports car club and insists Ken Miles took him for a lap of Lakeside. It was an experience that frightened him and he maintains that car was by far the fastest thing he'd ever sat his bum in. One point he made was that this car has some sort of computer hooked up to it and they could actually deliver info to the US and wait for suggestions on what to "tweak" from either Shelby or Ford to make it a better thing to drive. There were other details also, but I can't recall them with enough accuracy.He did insist that Ken was an absolute gentleman and one hell of a driver

[pallmall]

With the experience of Ken Miles in setting up cars and his Cobra experience by then, it sounds a bit of a Tall Tale.
Sure Ford would have had the equipment and no doubt it was used on the GT40 programme, but basically a final fling in a small time race for the Cobra, unlikely.

[nick_tassie]

Yes I tend to agree with what you have said, it is a bit of a long stretch to believe they would go to this extent for what was said to be a PR exercise. There are no indications in the shots above of anything space age in the engine bay or cabin. What would have been adjustable on these Full Comp cars anyway other than spring rates and alignment settings? I wouldn't have imagined they came over with multiple sets of anti-roll bars or dampers.

The air trumpets on the Holley are a neat setup.

[Shano]

Nick Tassie - no fax machines back then either. They didn't come into regular use until the mid-80s, believe it or not.

One of the first "data logging" set ups I saw was Rodger Freeth's ex-Crowe starlet, which had cables running from the suspension to a series of pointers that ran across a graduated scale. A VHS video camera recorded the movement of the pointers as he drove and he used that to change suspension settings. And that was hi-tech in its day (late 80s?).

I'd agree that it was a PR exercise, a bit of American sports-phsycing going on.

[Steve Holmes]

An interesting piece from a forum discussion on Miles running CSX3002 at Lakeside. Wonder what this computer was all about, would they have had simplistic engine, shocker or suspension data recorders in 65?? How on earth they might have sent data back to the US in those days is intriguing, fax/phone link!?! pigeon maybe! Has anyone else heard of this "computer" run by Shelby American and know of what data it recorded or how it even worked.

He was there that day as a guest from a relevant sports car club and insists Ken Miles took him for a lap of Lakeside. It was an experience that frightened him and he maintains that car was by far the fastest thing he'd ever sat his bum in. One point he made was that this car has some sort of computer hooked up to it and they could actually deliver info to the US and wait for suggestions on what to "tweak" from either Shelby or Ford to make it a better thing to drive. There were other details also, but I can't recall them with enough accuracy.He did insist that Ken was an absolute gentleman and one hell of a driver

I know drivers and mechanics back then were renowned for playing practical jokes, especially on the media, it seems likely Miles was probably doing this. Consider how limited computers were back then compared with today. Mark Donohue relates in one of his books about how they took their '68 Penske Camaro to General Motors proving grounds so GM could gather info about it to pass on to privateer Camaro race teams in the Trans-Am.

The car had cables and wiring running all over the place, and there were a couple of guys sat nearby in a van full of computers that were gathering data about the car as it drove around. All pretty clumsy stuff, and certainly took a team of computer technicians to run it. And this was General-Motors, in 1968, so you know this would have been cutting edge stuff at the time.

[mid-year]

I was at Lakeside that weekend and can still recall the absolute thunder from the side exhauste as Miles out accelerated eveything down the straight. I believe it was a bit of a bonus for the QMSC to have the car there as it was also to run at Macqau and I think it was considered a bit of a holiday for the attending mechanic Ron Butler who was a New-Zealander. The Cobra was air-freighted out in a 707 and picked up at the Brisbane airport by one of the QMSC members with his Zephyr ute and rickety flat bed trailer!
l

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, what a great story mid-year! Thats really cool. Can you recall if Ron Thorpes 289 Cobra was at the same event? I have photos of it from the Bruce Wells photo collection at Lakeside in 1965, but as you can see in the pic above with the grid heading into turn 1, the Thorpe Cobra doesn't appear to be there. I'd wondered if the car was entered and practiced, but didn't race for some reason?

[mid-year]

I am fairly sure that the Ron Thorpe 289 was at Lakeside that weekend but for some reason did not run in the actual Tourist Trophy race,perhaps he did not wish to enter the main race or maybe had a problem. The circuit at that time was a little rough and the Miles 427 suffered rear suspension failure apparently due to the rough nature of the track. I have never heard or seen a more impressive race car than that awesome 427 competition Cobra, it litteraly blew the other cars to the weeds when overtaking them. I believe the whole exercise in sending the car to the southern hemisphere was essentially a PR flag waver funded by the FoMoCo. The Ron Thorpe 289 ran with the windscreen and hardtop whilst the 427c ran as a roadster. I remember Ron Butler wearing the Shelby team uniform and Ken in his racing overalls and both where real gentlemen.RIP.

[Wal Will]

Just a little aside. I recall that Jim Hall was starting to use 'Data Acquisition' (in conjunction with G.M.) around about 64-65. It was very basic at that stage and required using a Nagra reel to reel tape recorder and pulse generators on the wheels and drive shaft. The 'pulses' from each sensor going to a different track on the tape that could be analysed later.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks Wal, thats really great info. How did they manage to relate useful information from what they'd gathered on the tapes? Yes I understand Jim Hall and key members of his team worked very closely GM at this time, and it was several members of the Hall team along with GM R&D people who fitted the Penske Camaro with all their gadgetry as mentioned above. Jim Hall is a very clever fellow, and some of the ideas he came up with during the free thinking Can-Am years were really ahead of their time. The fact his Chaparral cars only won a single Can-Am race really doesn't do justice to what he contributed to the series.

[Steve Holmes]

I am fairly sure that the Ron Thorpe 289 was at Lakeside that weekend but for some reason did not run in the actual Tourist Trophy race,perhaps he did not wish to enter the main race or maybe had a problem. The circuit at that time was a little rough and the Miles 427 suffered rear suspension failure apparently due to the rough nature of the track. I have never heard or seen a more impressive race car than that awesome 427 competition Cobra, it litteraly blew the other cars to the weeds when overtaking them. I believe the whole exercise in sending the car to the southern hemisphere was essentially a PR flag waver funded by the FoMoCo. The Ron Thorpe 289 ran with the windscreen and hardtop whilst the 427c ran as a roadster. I remember Ron Butler wearing the Shelby team uniform and Ken in his racing overalls and both where real gentlemen.RIP.

Thanks, that clears things up some re the Thorpe Cobra. I was trying to figure out if the pics Bruce sent me of this car were from another event.

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[pallmall]

I was at Lakeside that weekend and can still recall the absolute thunder from the side exhauste as Miles out accelerated eveything down the straight. I believe it was a bit of a bonus for the QMSC to have the car there as it was also to run at Macqau and I think it was considered a bit of a holiday for the attending mechanic Ron Butler who was a New-Zealander. The Cobra was air-freighted out in a 707 and picked up at the Brisbane airport by one of the QMSC members with his Zephyr ute and rickety flat bed trailer!
l

Ken Miles went on to Macau to race a locally owned Cobra, the car he raced at Lakeside went back to the USA.
There seems to be some long running confusion about this, maybe because Ken was off to Macau straight after Lakeside and it was assumed that car and driver were going. It was also probably incorrectly reported in the Aussie press at the time.

[nick_tassie]

What is the story with the extra pair of goggles Miles has around his neck? Am I right in thinking they would be used if the other pair got dirty! Can't imagine how difficult it would of been to swap them over mid race, or was it done during pit stops??

[Steve Holmes]

From a Cobra book I have: ".....The second, CSX3002, was finished as a racing car, complete with dry sump oil system with the reserve tank in the right front fender. This, although it wasn't totally realized at the time, was destined to be the only official Cobra 427 team car ever to be run. It was raced by Ken Miles as a "modified" in USRRC races where it proved reliable but no match for the newest Group 7 mid-engine racers against which it was forced to run. This car was eventually sent as a good will gesture to run in the November, 1965, Australian Tourist Trophy. Driven, as usual, by Ken Miles, it was running third against an assortment of sports and Group 7 cars when the rear suspension failed, causing a rear tire to blow. Its apropos of nothing important, though interesting to note, that Miles went from there, by invitation, to run and win his class in the Macao Grand Prix, then a mixed bag, run-what-ya-brung event that was a sort of an East Asian version of Nassau. This gave rise to a persistent myth that the deed was done in the 427. It wasn't; the invitation came from a private owner who simply wanted Miles to drive his car in the event and was happy to pay the fare".

[Steve Holmes]

What is the story with the extra pair of goggles Miles has around his neck? Am I right in thinking they would be used if the other pair got dirty! Can't imagine how difficult it would of been to swap them over mid race, or was it done during pit stops??

I think that was fairly normal practice at the time for open race cars. Wal would be able to give a more precise answer. I would say either if they got dirty or the lense got cracked.

[nick_tassie]

Ah yes, I didn't think about flying bits and pieces cracking the lenses.

[mid-year]

70177018Hi Guy,s thought you might like these images

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, those are fantastic! Thanks for posting them. Whats the story with the green 289?

[mid-year]

The BRG 289 is the ex Ron Thorpe car and the image was taken at an early historic meeting at Amaroo circa 1979,at this stage I think it was in the John Blanden collection. both Cobra,s survive today with the 289 lovingly looked after in a major collection in QLD and likewise CSX3002 in the USA.

[mid-year]

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[pallmall]

Cool photos, nice to see a near in period colour shot of the Thorpe car.

On a general Shelby note, current sad news is that Carroll Shelby is seriously ill and ailing.

[mid-year]

I found a few more of the 28970247025

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, I LOVE those photos! Thanks for sharing them. Have you sent these to the Bowdens? Interesting to see the car was changed somewhat, with the rear wheel openings getting widened, and the different wheels being fitted. Must have been a fun road car. Thanks again.

[pallmall]

Cool photos, thankyou.
I can understand why the Bowdens love that car.

[Dave Silcock]

Here are a couple more from the upcoming Lakeside chapter of the Bruce Wells Collection.

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I think these are really wonderful shots and if you don't mind I will use them as a starter for some comments on old car presentation. First of all how much would we have missed if Miles was wearing a full face. That nose, the chin and the goggles, as the young ones say today'' horndog''.The other thing is you may notice that even though it was a Fo Mo Co/ Shelby works car it was fully trimmed, carpet on the gear box tunnel and at least rubber in the footwells. The C & D type Jaguars were also fully trimmed as were the light weight E types. The Shelby Mustang I drove when it was brand new in 1967 also had a complete interior. Gutting of the interior could also lead to that horror of horrors, aluminium checker plate on the floors! God forbid.