Old Race Tracks

[Rikko]

Hi Guys.

I was wondering if anyone can help me? I was looking at some old aerial shots of Auckland's North Shore (on google earth) and I noticed 2 race tracks, one in Glenfield and one in Albany. I don't know if these are car, motorbike or carting tracks, but I was hoping someone could shed some light into what they were used for. These shots are circa 1963.

The Albany one was located right next to the Albany pub, on state highway one. The Glenfield one was next to Target Rd, but accessed via Wairau Rd. Possibly owned by a car club?

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Rik

65016502

[Steve Holmes]

Cool photos Rikko. Someone on here should know, if they're car tracks. They look like they could be speedways, though they could just as easily be horse tracks. If they're speedways, Pallmall will know. In fact, he'll not only know, he'll tell you when they opened, when they closed, who won the first meeting, what the lap record is........

[Rikko]

Cheers Steve.

I was going on the assumption that horse tracks are normally oval? Also there doesn't appear to be any of the jumps and other horsey stuff you find in the inner track. I could be wrong though. I'm not a horse person. Not enough wheels :D

I've been googling solidly and can't for the life of me find any info on either.

[markec]

6506 The first Ruapuna configoration

[AMCO72]

Almost certainly horse training tracks. We have dozens of them here in Cambridge, and they aren't necessarily oval or any regular shape for that matter. As training tracks for trotters and pacers they will not have any jumps or 'horsey stuff' on them.

[AMCO72]

Is a bit hard going over a jump towing a sulky!!!!!!!!!!

[Jac Mac]

The 'going over' was not so bad, the 'landing' on other side usually hurt though!

[pallmall]

There was Worrall's farm (I think that what it was called) up Albany way, that was used by Hot Rod Clubs back in the day and I think it may have been there that the Chassis Racers had a track around 1962. Have to go and check on exactly where.
Certainly no 'official' speedways in that area, but prior to the late sixties there were car club, etc., stuff that took place on many grass track circuits on farms and private land. There still is today, a few private tracks, but they are well away from built up areas.

I have always been intrigued by the number of ovals one sees when flying over NZ, I guess most are just farm tracks or horse training tracks.

[pallmall]

The Chassis Racers used a circuit on the Cullen Farm in Albany when they started in 1961, this was called "Albany Speedway" and ran Saturday afternoon meetings, but other than the Chassis Racers I don't know if any other speedway divisions raced there. I know a man who raced there, so shall ask the question.
Worrall's Farm was near Kumeu, so a bit away from the areas photographed, will ask around about other venues in the Albany area. I doubt the circuit in Glenfield had anything to do with cars, could be motorbikes, but probably horses.

[AMCO72]

Chassis racers sounds intriguing. Is that what they did......race chassis, in the days when cars had chassis. Sounds like fun. Can't do that now.....OSH has taken away all the fun.

[stubuchanan]

The Chassis Racers used a circuit on the Cullen Farm in Albany when they started in 1961, this was called "Albany Speedway" and ran Saturday afternoon meetings, but other than the Chassis Racers I don't know if any other speedway divisions raced there. I know a man who raced there, so shall ask the question.
Worrall's Farm was near Kumeu, so a bit away from the areas photographed, will ask around about other venues in the Albany area. I doubt the circuit in Glenfield had anything to do with cars, could be motorbikes, but probably horses.

I think they were called the NZ Chassis Racing Club or similar, somewhere near the present N Shore Golf Club course, and maybe disappeared after a year or two. A look in the archives of the North Shore Times might bear fruit.

As for the Albany pub aerial, that would undoubtedly be a horse training track, probably owned by the Stevensons whose carrying yard is on the left of picture. I'm sure they were into "horsey" activities.

A cafe/takeaway at Hobsonville (?Bomb Bay Cafe?) used to have a very big aerial photo on their wall, of the surrounding Whenuapai and Hobsonville areas, and there were about 20 or so similar tracks in the area, all presumably racing or trotting training tracks. There are possibly quite a few in the Karaka and Takanini areas still, but none of them with a car racing connection.

Stu

[pallmall]

These are Chassis Racers, first two photos from Gloucester Park in Onehunga and the grass track one was taken at a circuit in Alfriston, South Auckland. The VCC boys would go mad if they saw these, but back then (1960-1963) nobody wanted these cars.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/AAp32700x469.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/AA_0000_006700x454.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/AA26chassisalfriston61-62700x446.jpg

[RogerH]

There is an old race car track in Silverdale (Auckland) at the junction of the Northern Motorway and the Hibiscus Coast Highway next to Small Road. The remains can be seen on Google Maps. I recollect last seeing cars racing here in the 1970s.

[AMCO72]

There is a bigger crowd than at HD. Number 55 means business...he has a bull bar on the front of his machine to scatter the opposition, and strengthend rear wheels to take the strain of cornering. I dont know how effective the roll-over bars would be, but who cares.....no one there apparently. This could be one of the entertainments that Custaxie50 would like at our meetings. Bugger OSH, lets do it!!!!!!!

[Oldfart]

These are the coolest ever!

[jim short]

Roly at Bay Park

[stubuchanan]

Roly at Bay Park

If you're talking about Post #4, I think it's the original Ruapuna Circuit.

Stu

[jim short]

Yes you are correct I had forgoten the early shape,though I raced on it in the 80s

[Rikko]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I love those old chassis racers. Awesome pics.

Ok, so I guess these old tracks were horse related. Bummer.

Roger, I live in Hibiscus Coast, so I might try and hunt down that old track.

[AMCO72]

Yes aren't they great. In the good old days [sigh] when we had a bit of fun. I mean for goodness sakes, those machines would have been fairly slow, although some of them are in 'four-wheel-drifts', and they would have been boiling their heads off in very short order, but what a hoot. I see some old Buicks and Dodges, mostly side valved engines but with an occasional OHV, and probably all American. And of course you dont need a 'proper' track to run them on, just a sympathetic cocky with a 4 acre paddock will do.......a bit like a souped-up gymkhana.

[AMCO72]

Getting back to the thread title, Old race tracks, when I lived in Christchurch in the 50's there used to be a track round the perimeter of Lake Bryndwr on the northern side of the city. I didn't ever go to a meeting there, but we used to water-ski on the lake itself. This would have been about 1956. I dont think any of the races there would have been for 'Chassis Racers', but I suspect all sorts of hum-drum saloon cars of the 30's and 40's. That seems to be what these old machines were reduced to, as Pallmall has said, nobody wanted them. I'll bet George Smith and Co also went there to do some skids. The whole area is probably a housing estate now, if it hasn't been shaken to bits by the earthquakes.

[Oldfart]

, just a sympathetic cocky with a 4 acre paddock will do.......a bit like a souped-up gymkhana.

23 acres here ready to be used!

[Jac Mac]

33 acres here,enough rise & fall to make Bathurst look like a pre-school playground:):)

[AMCO72]

Thats great guys, but under whose banner do we 'race' these jalopies. Is a bit like oldfarts race class with near standard pre 60 cars.....the problem is finding them; and the raw material for 'chassis racers' would be even harder. All chassis-less cars from about 1955. No, I'm sorry, it's all over. You had your chance back then; if you didn't take it, tough luck!!!!!!!

[Oldfart]

Thats great guys, but under whose banner do we 'race' these jalopies. Is a bit like oldfarts race class with near standard pre 60 cars.....the problem is finding them; and the raw material for 'chassis racers' would be even harder. All chassis-less cars from about 1955. No, I'm sorry, it's all over. You had your chance back then; if you didn't take it, tough luck!!!!!!!
Not quite an old enough fart to have taken advantage back then!

[bob homewood]

The Chassis Racer days ,never went there ,but I had a cousin who did ,made one out of a old Model A that had been converted into a truck,now that's vandalism at it's extreme. They used to race at that Alfriston track in the photo and also at Lowry's farm in Papakura on the grass Kart track there ,which incidentally is where my motor sport career started in Karts on the grass,with 197cc Villiers power

[Steve Holmes]

Gerald, Markec asked me to post these for you, said you'd enjoy them.

6535

6534

[seaqnmac27]

65366537

I know its not a now defunct circuit but 1963 and 1970 pics of Pukekohe

[stubuchanan]

The lower picture certainly is of an "old race track". The picture sits in the National Archive (or Alexander Turnbull Library) with the unhelpful label of "Pukekohe 5.1.1963" - no mention that 5.1.63 was the date of the first Pukekohe NZ Grand Prix. The despair of historians when photos are not labelled sensibly!

Stu

[markec]

http://theracingline.net/racingcircuits/NewZealand/index.html,

There's a few here I haven't heard of.

[MP54]

Hi Guys,

Very late in the 60's (I think), my father bought 12 acres of land at the southern end of the Albany straight, from I believe, Mrs Cullen. When we got possession of the land there were quite a number of what I now know, from this thread, were chassis racers. They were rusted and immobile at that stage. They were quite big scary looking things.

Part of that land is where the Albany Junior High School now stands.

Around that time, just down the road was where car painter Lyall Martin worked from. I was there one day when he was painting the ex Silcock Jag for Steve Millen in that lovely blue.

Mark

[pallmall]

I think the Cullen Farm was on Albany Highway and the corner of Golf Road.
Hopefully I will have the loan of a scrapbook very soon with photos of the racing there.

[Neville Milne]

I think the Cullen Farm was on Albany Highway and the corner of Golf Road.
Hopefully I will have the loan of a scrapbook very soon with photos of the racing there.
[/I]

I'm sure that's where I ran in a couple of m/cycle, scrambler-type races, using a BSA B31G in a Norton frame that (allegedly) had been built and raced by Bill Russell. This would have been in the mid-60's period.
The events seemed to be attended by the chassis racer themselves, plus the usual friends, significant others and that's about it.
On more than one occasion. I saw a car being reduced to chassis status by the simple ( and effective) means of placing a pole through the front door window openings, then towing it between a couple of conveniently placed trees.
Chassis-racer safety?....NO...nothing in the way of safety for the drivers....seats were often apple crate-style. Oil and coolant would often be oozing at every pore. Petrol sometimes fed from a strategically placed gallon tin
Spectator facilities?.....a grass bank and a quick dash behind those same trees when nature called.
The potential for injury accidents was great, although , to be honest, I never saw anyone come close to being hurt...probably because the chassis' being raced, were on their last legs anyway-----speeds were not very high at all.
I would love to see any pictures being posted
Neville Milne

[GeebeeNZ]

Neville, Chassis racing was started in Auckland in the early sixties by Warren Fox and his friend the late Lou Shilton. Warren has written about it in a book he has published on the net. http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Easy/00000026.htm As I now live on the Shore I was interested that they used to race on a trotting track in Glenfield. I grew up in Onehunga in the 1960s and remember when they held the Chassis racing World Championship which I recall was won by local wood merchant Bill Beaver. As a secondarary school boy I was intrigued how they could run a world championship amongst a group of Aucklanders.

[pallmall]

The Historic Stockcar Club archives has items and copies of photos from all three of the people mentioned in GeebeeNZ's post, I will dig out a few interesting things to post soon. I am also told there are some photos taken on part of the old Cullen farm in the eighties that show the relics of old Chassis Racers still there even then, hopefully along with the scrapbook I am waiting for we may be able to put together some interesting information.
Thanks for those who have posted information and anecdotes, I have passed them on to a couple of guys who will add this stuff to the archive information.

[Neville Milne]

Neville, Chassis racing was started in Auckland in the early sixties by Warren Fox and his friend the late Lou Shilton. Warren has written about it in a book he has published on the net. http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Easy/00000026.htm As I now live on the Shore I was interested that they used to race on a trotting track in Glenfield. I grew up in Onehunga in the 1960s and remember when they held the Chassis racing World Championship which I recall was won by local wood merchant Bill Beaver. As a secondarary school boy I was intrigued how they could run a world championship amongst a group of Aucklanders.

This brings back old memories from when I used to live in Onehunga. Colin Park had NO fear, no nerves at all....would do anything on a dare; he was (is) one of life's real larrikans and a heck of a nice guy. He, Roy Fisk and I ran around together...it was Roy who sold me the BSA and Colin who talked me into racing it up at Albany...not that m/cycle, scrambler-type racing was much of a feature up there, in those days.
ISTR that Colin always wanted to be a farmer and eventually went down Raglan way to manage a farm; Roy went to OZ and I ended up in the US

[Steve Holmes]

This is such a cool thread!

[pallmall]

Some photos from the Cullen Farm at Albany.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/CHASSISALB1700x460.jpg

Bill Beaver car.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/Bill_Beaver.jpg

Bill Beaver building his Chassis racer.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/BillBeaver.jpg

And a couple more of Chassis Racers at Gloucester Park stockcar track 1962
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/p36700x534.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/ChassisGP.jpg

[pallmall]

This is the Gloucester Park Stockcar Track while being built in 1961. There was stockcar racing at this track for three seasons until early 1964. The area is now covered by the Onehunga on ramp to the Mangere Bridge. The North Eastern part of the park still survives as a sports ground.
Gloucester Park has a place in NZ Motor Racing history as racing took place there in the mid/late 1930s. It basically replaced Hennings Speedway in Mangere, but the lure of the new sport of Midget Racing at Western Springs saw the end of both Gloucester Park and Hennings Speedway.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/GloucesterPark700x462.jpg

[AMCO72]

All Bill Beaver's hard work on No55, which I think is a Plymouth, is about to end up severely compromised. He should have the strengthend wheels on the front as well. I bet these guys raced hard and gave no quarter. As I posted in yards and yarns about the Rowan Atkinson film 'The Driven Man' when he was on a Fergie tractor having fun on the grass, with sheep as mobile chicanes, the speed would have been less that 20 mph, but what fun can be had at 20 mph. Same with these guys, sitting on a bare chassis with driveshafts spinning a few inches from their bums, the illusion of speed would certainly have been there. I really love these pictures, and thanks to the guy who took them, whoever you are/were.

[stirlingmac]

Heres a link to a site covering a speedway track that once existed in Lower Hutt near the Avalon TV studios..
http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/TaitaSpeedway.htm
I believe it was only bikes and had sadly disappeared along with Lower Hutt's other motorcycle track the Gracefield street circuit in Seaview.

[Steve Holmes]

Heres one Bob Homewood sent me. Bobs having some problems uploading pics to the site at the moment. Heres the info he gave me:

Here is one for the lost race tracks thread, it was at Cambria Park a ex US WW2 Army Camp in Wiri, South Auckland ,I am not sure how many times it was used but I do have a couple of photos of cars racing there which I can't post as are copyrights and I did some time ago speak with some one who competed there around 1957 he told me ,this is a old photo I researched and found of the camp ,from the description he gave me it matches the shape of the track that was used which I have marked with a arrow.This area has now been swallowed up in the construction of the Motorway through Manakau ,but I did manage to get a photo of the area I was told where the track was before the earth moving machines obliterated it,if theres any interest I can send that as well. I am actually keen to find out more about this venue and I am still looking and asking.

6789

[stubuchanan]

Having remembered that there was a "Historic Aerial" function on the Auckland Council's map and GIS facility, I found and downloaded this aerial shot.
http://s6.postimage.org/mk5vug4mp/Cambria_Park_poss_1942.png (http://postimage.org/)

Cambria Park was a farm which was bordered by Puhinui & Roscommon Roads Puhinui Stream and the railway line.

Roscommon Road is at the left of picture, The road running off it was later Nesdale Av and is now a continuation of Cavendish Dr, and the track is the U-shaped piece that runs off it. This picture seems to date back to camp construction about 1941/42 as there are no camp buildings and a lot of the land still looks like farmland, which it didn't in aerials from a year or 2 later.

I have more info and photos re the camp, but almost no info about racing, which I gather was run by the Northern Sports Car Club, in 1957/8. Nestle build their Factory/headquarters the around 1959/60/61.

The outlin of the curve was still visible as a bare strip in the scrub behind the factory, and may still exist now south of the new S-W Motorway.

Hope this triggers a few memories.

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Just north of Dunedin, Bill Waldron an earthworks contractor formed up a circuit in the early 1970's.
You could see it from the motorway and may possibly still show up on google earth.

[Rod Grimwood]

Hi Guys,

Very late in the 60's (I think), my father bought 12 acres of land at the southern end of the Albany straight, from I believe, Mrs Cullen. When we got possession of the land there were quite a number of what I now know, from this thread, were chassis racers. They were rusted and immobile at that stage. They were quite big scary looking things.

Part of that land is where the Albany Junior High School now stands.

Around that time, just down the road was where car painter Lyall Martin worked from. I was there one day when he was painting the ex Silcock Jag for Steve Millen in that lovely blue.

Mark

It was changed from Blue (Silcock) to Maroon (Millen) and then back to blue. When Steve got it wet at Puke it was Maroon and Lyall and us touched it up that night (late). And when we went to Auckland Car club on a Thursday night from North Shore because ute would not start and on way home set new record from Harbour Bridge toll gates to Onewa road overbridge it was maroon, and the night the local traffic man in Rothsay Bay visited to enquire as to had it been around the block at about 1.30 in the morning, and we said we had only been working on the suspension all night, and it so nicely went hiss out the radiator, it was Maroon.

[jim short]

Hi i have some vidio of Allan Woolf Ford 8 plus the Lycoming?? and others on this track amongst my collection

[bob homewood]

6802 Thanks for the photo Stu,back in 2006 Max Fisher gave me some instructions on how to find the remains of the curve at the Airport end ,he would have liked to have gone out there with me to show me ,but his health prevented him doing so ,following his instructions I went out and had a look ,work had proceeded by then on the Motorway and consequently most of that area had disappeared beneath the road works.

[woody]

Bob, Where the footbridge is (over the railway) in Puhinui Road, on the airport side is a plaque about the track.

[woody]

Kwaussie, The old Waitati track is now overgrown. The track was on the Waitati side of the Kilmog. Bill had to divert a creek to gain more room. He ran 3 or 4 meetings. There were not enough speedway cars, Ray Wilkie & Snow Morris were a couple. Waldroville killed it for Bill.

[Oldfart]

Nobody mentioned Seagrove yet.
Southern shore of the Manukau harbour. I went looking in the early to mid 1980s, there were still some of the hexagon concrete slabs evident even then.
Just had a look on the Auckland GIS viewer, I was surpised to see that the airstrips are still very evident. They are not clear at all from ground level!

[markec]

Alan Dick had some info sent to him that he put in his Classic Driver mag a few years back, from memory, some of the roads that were used around the Nestle's plant were still there.That's Cambria Park.

[bob homewood]

I got some stuff on that coming,yes its still very evident from the air ,I have quite often seen it when flying in or out of Mangere if the flight plan takes you over there,I used to go out there a lot in the early sixties as I worked in the area ,there was even more perhaps to see in those times,a word though if anybody is going out there remember its now private land ,so don't enter without the land owners permission




Nobody mentioned Seagrove yet.
Southern shore of the Manukau harbour. I went looking in the early to mid 1980s, there were still some of the hexagon concrete slabs evident even then.
Just had a look on the Auckland GIS viewer, I was surpised to see that the airstrips are still very evident. They are not clear at all from ground level!

[markec]

http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=print&thread=881, there is a bit of Cambria Park info here.

[markec]

http://www.vintagecarclub-northshore.co.nz/pdfs/newsletter-september-2011.pdf.
If you go to page 14 in the above link, there i a discription by one of the participants who was one of the originators of Chassis racing at the Cullen farm in 1961.It is a PDF form so it takes a moment to load.

[markec]

http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Easy/00000026.htm.
Above is a link to the article on its own.

[stubuchanan]

http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=print&thread=881, there is a bit of Cambria Park info here.

And reference to another Homewood. There is a photo of the memorial plaque mentioned by Woody a few posts back, it only refers to the military camp. There is also a similar plaque at Seagrove at the end of (?)Seagrove Road, at the edge of the old airfield.

The curved part of the Cambria Park track is still visible in aerial shots South of the South-Western motorway as a bare patch amongst the scrub. I guess only grass and weeds would grow on top of the asphalt track.

There are two other places of motor racing interest only 2-3 kms from Cambria Pk. The site of the proposed "Manukau Park" GP track and speedway, and the Wiri Container Terminal which was used by some sports car clubs, and also the "bucket racing" motorcycle enthusiasts. The container terminal has long since vanished, but I recall seeing sports cars racing there some time in the 1980's.

I will post a map or photo or 2 tomorrow if time permits.

Stu

[pallmall]

http://www.vintagecarclub-northshore.co.nz/pdfs/newsletter-september-2011.pdf.
If you go to page 14 in the above link, there i a discription by one of the participants who was one of the originators of Chassis racing at the Cullen farm in 1961.It is a PDF form so it takes a moment to load.

Yes, that is the excerpt from the previous link, by Warren Fox.
There are some discrepancies from other material we have from Warren, and from some others involved. I am just sorting through quite a bit of material at present and once I have checked some stuff from those that are still with us I will try and post the 'correct' story along with some cuttings and photos.

[pallmall]

Seagrove Airfield, I have just been loaned a book on Seagrove that obviously is mainly about the aircraft activities, but it does have a bit about the motorsport and motorcycle sport that was held there. If you are interested in Aviation history and Motorsport history it is probably a must have, if you have no interest in Aviation there is probably not enough about the Motorsport to justify purchase.
For anybody interested the book is called " Seagrove... Where's That, A history and Childhood Memories of an all but forgotten World War II Airfield" by Max Poole. Published by Chevron Publishing NZ 2011. ISBN 978-0473-19573-1. Author can be contacted at maxdavidpoole@gmail.com. I understand the author has copies available for sale.

Once I have had a chance to read it I will post a little more.

[bob homewood]

Rather than me rewrite some of it ,have a look here also http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Wartime&action=display&thread=1350

[Shano]

Interesting thread, Bob. I recently interviewed Ginger Molloy who talked of having his first race at Seagrove and I wondered where it was (Ginger went on to become one of NZ's most successful ever motorcycle racers).

[stubuchanan]

Interesting thread, Bob. I recently interviewed Ginger Molloy who talked of having his first race at Seagrove and I wondered where it was (Ginger went on to become one of NZ's most successful ever motorcycle racers).

Don't know if you are still unsure of Seagrove's location -- as "Oldfart" said in a previous post, it is on the south shore of the Manukau Harbour, a bit east of Clark's Beach and Waiau Pa, a WW2 airfield built on reclaimed mudflats.

It was later used by DSIR(or whatever they are now) and Ak University as a Radio Research Station, with Antenna pylons erected on the runway which rather spoiled it for car and Motorcycle racing. The 1951 motorcycle TT races were run there on 1 Jan 1951 on a 4-mile all-sealed track involving runways, access roads with uphill and downhill sections. I think the cars ran mostly on the runways, but I have seen a few photos of cars racing with trees and bushes in background, so maybe they ran on other roads as well. Maybe someone out there can remember back that far - i.e. 1946-52ish.

Stu

[bob homewood]

No I myself know Stu ,I have been going out there since I was kid,back when the Manukau was more pure ,we used to go floundering out there ,then when I started work we had a lot of customers whose tractors and farm machinery we used to look after all round there ,got a couple of other stories but they probably belong in yards and yarns

[Trevor Sheffield]

Kia ora Stu,

I remember during my cycle racing youth, riding out to Seagrove just after the war, with a couple of mates to take in the motor racing. The races were held on a straight runway, back and forth around markers much like a beach race. All sorts of cars competed and the events started with straight sprints rather than races. The most impressive car was an Auburn straight eight roadster. I am fairly sure that invitations for the sprint events went out to anyone with a legally registered car and drivers license.

Unfortunately I wound up with a punctured racing tyre which I could not repair, but was lucky to hitch a ride back to the city with Laurie Powel, who was driving his V8 engined B4 roadster, with midget also used on the day, in tow on a trailer. I had to sit on the passengers knees and it was eye-water drafty above the screen. Laurie loved his B4 and pointed out that the Auburn was only slightly quicker even though it must have cost more than twice as much. At the time I recall that the B4 was quite a smart machine.

At the time I dreamed of owning and racing a sports car and was annoyed with the way MG and morgan examples were being driven so sedately and vowed that I could do better. I could see the opportunity for a bit of sideways stuff at the corner flags. It came to pass that later on I competed against Laurie in the B4 and was together with him, a member of the Northern Sports Car Club Committee.

Them was good days. Trevor.

[pallmall]

Last night at an historic speedway club meeting there was a DVD playing in the background with lots of old footage of Auckland motor racing in the fifties, included was quite a bit from Seagrove. Looks like a lot of the racing was sprints up and down the runways, but there were also shots of the access roads being used for races.

[David McKinney]

I want a copy of that DVD!

[pallmall]

I want a copy of that DVD!

So do I. Am working on it, will let you know.

[bob homewood]

Keep me in mind as well if you can ,thanks

[bob homewood]

Got sent this sent to me today about Seagrove,very pleased to know that I am still a young fellow !

Young Fellow for your information

Auckland's only sealed track back in 1949 was the Seagrove Aerodrome near Waiuku,it consisted of a pair of Runways meeting at about a 20 degree angle,and joined by a partly sealed ,parallel taxiway in roughly the shape of a boomerang.The taxiways were out of favour after Gordon Brown rolled Dr Ken Orr's Jowett Jupiter, doing neither a lot of good. The season opener was held in November 1948 and was run by the Competitors Car Club of Auckland on a very wet circuit

The Northern Sports Car Club event was a combined Sprint / Race meeting on February 20th 1949 which is possibly the meeting Mr Sheffield was talking about as Laurie Powell was there I also remember John Wilson being there in what they called back then a rare MG J1
Gordon Brown was another competitor who I think from memory got second behind Powell was a partner in the engineering firm of Brown and Nutall and he built quite a few specials as they called them back then,there may be more when I think about it

[pallmall]

The Gordon Brown accident in the Ken Orr Jowett is on the DVD I am waiting to get copies of, in fact at least both meetings mentioned above are on there. I think Gordon Brown may have been the source for some of the film footage on the DVD.
Gordon Brown also raced midgets back in the day and one of his cars was restored a couple of years ago and Gordon had a run in it, at the grand old age of around 85.

[Trevor Sheffield]

Gordon Brown's original Ford Ten Special, was in a way very special because it was featured in a magazine at the time and I am sure inspired the construction of the gaggle of similar cars which followed. I certainly took note when building my first car, even though I could not afford a Ford Ten engine.

What he built was a road going sports car and he used it as such for mundane tasks on a regular basis. It was fitted with a Ruckstell Ford Model T two speed differential, as a supplement to the Ford three speed unit. According to the magazine article, Gordon fitted a make shift dozer blade and used the car as a tractor to level the lawn of his newly acquired residence! In those days a car used purely for competition was out of the question. Any capital outlay was required to earn its keep. (Including hopefully the Port of Auckland LOL.)

[pallmall]

I want a copy of that DVD!

Check your PMs David, I need an address to send it to.

[Milan Fistonic]

Does anyone have any information about this event advertised in the February 1963 Auckland Car Club Bulletin?

Did it take place and if so, where was the track located?


7032

[pallmall]

Does anyone have any information about this event advertised in the February 1963 Auckland Car Club Bulletin?

Did it take place and if so, where was the track located?


7032

No it didn't take place. The intended track was along Arthur Street to a hairpin turn at the bottom into Beachcroft Ave to Church St, but I can't remember where it went from there to get back to Arthur St, it may have been Norman's Hill Rd or Selwyn St.
It was never going to work, and really was a bit of a pipe dream, but at the time every town seemed to want to hold a road race.
A bit of the planned roads have changed now, particularly the Arthur St- Beachcroft Ave Junction, but even back then was an impossibly tight hairpin bend.

[Milan Fistonic]

Thanks pallmall.

This event must have taken place as the programme I have has results written in for two of the four races scheduled.

The names are a bit hard to read but the circuit used the roads around Mount Atkinson. The intersection at the left of the circuit is where Woodlands Park Road joins the Senic Drive by the Filter Station. The road across the bottom is the Senic Drive but is called Exhibition now Senic Drive on the map. The junction on the right is where Atkinson Road joins the Senic Drive, Titirangi Road and what was View Road (now Kohu Road).

I lived just a couple of miles down Titirangi Road at that time but don't recall anything about the event. I was only 10 in 1952 and it wasn't until I was taken to the 1955 NZIGP that I got bitten by the motor racing bug.


7033

[bob homewood]

Going away back to that time ,there was also a article about the Onehunga one I can remember in one of the daily papers about it ,Auckland Star or Herald possibly ,I think around the time that Ardmore went and Pukekohe came about there were also more than a few pipe dreams floated around about different places ,like the Domain ,I think the proximity to the Auckland Hospital amongst other things killed the Domain one

[bob homewood]

Milan,yes the Titirangi Motor Cycle Road race ,at least two of the older Bike racers from that day have told me about it ,one of them just recently

[pallmall]

As the Ardmore days drew to a close through the shifting of the Aero Club and operations from Mangere to Ardmore there were many suggestions on where to hold the NZGP prior to Pukekohe being chosen. Amongst them was the use of part of the roads that had been used in Mangere for the Motor Cycle TT races. I think the plan was to use part roads in the Ithumatao area at the end of Ascot Ave and along Orurangi Rd with some purpose built track to complete the circuit. Later there was talk of a complete purpose built circuit on the Ithumatao Penninsula where the scoria quarries were situated and I guess at that time lots of other sites around Auckland were being looked at for a motor racing circuit. I believe even Seagrove was considered for the replacement track.

[Milan Fistonic]

Funny you should mention the Mangere TT track. I was just about to post this map of the circuit from the 1954 NZ TT programme.

The roads used were Ascot Road acroos the top, Oruarangi on the left, Ihumatao Road across the bottom and Westney Road on the right. A lap covered 6.2 miles and both the Senior and Junior TT races covered 17 laps. I remember that most of Oruarangi road was unsealed but can't recall how much of the rest was tarsealed.


7124

[pallmall]

By the time of the last one held, which must have been 1961 or 1962, the whole circuit was sealed. The earlier events I went to, probably from about 1958, the unsealed bit was Oruarangi Road to the bridge, and a short section after the bridge until the Marae. Earlier I understand some of Ihuamato Road was also unsealed.
About 50% of the circuit is still as it was, it terms of where the road goes, the remainder is quite different. When the second runway earthworks resume much more will change.

[stubuchanan]

By the time of the last one held, which must have been 1961 or 1962, the whole circuit was sealed. The earlier events I went to, probably from about 1958, the unsealed bit was Oruarangi Road to the bridge, and a short section after the bridge until the Marae. Earlier I understand some of Ihuamato Road was also unsealed.
About 50% of the circuit is still as it was, it terms of where the road goes, the remainder is quite different. When the second runway earthworks resume much more will change.

I remember driving or being driven around the Mangere circuit, probably not before 1960, and the section of Oruarangi Road near the Pa or marae and the group of state houses(Maori Affairs Dept) was still unsealed at that time, although the rest of the lap was sealed. It would have been a very nice circuit for cars, quite fast I would think, if maybe a bit narrow.
Somewhere I have a newspaper clipping about the Onehunga circuit that never was, if I find it I will post it here. I recall it had one or two steep or nasty bits, perhaps like the Victoria Park V8 track that wasn't.

Motor-bikes have also been raced at Drury, New Lynn,and Manukau City but the last 2 not in the "nostalgia" era.

Stu

[Neville Milne]

Grass-tracks seemed to come and go with some regularity. ISTR an 'auto-cross' type venue at the Aitkenhead Sawmill location on the Pokeno-Thames Rd. and another venue over the Waikato, from Tuakau----in the Pukekawa/Onewhero area. This was basically circular where 'races' were held..a sort of 'red-neck....run what you brung" type activity.

[stubuchanan]

Well, I couldn't find the Onehunga clipping, probably from the "Star" as Bob Homewood suggests. It was only 50 years ago, but I think it went down or up Norman's Hill Road.

However, I did find another circuit which never happened :

http://s6.postimage.org/ov9gf42nl/Manukau_Park_Project_Colin_Dale_MS_Pk.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

This must have mid 1980's I guess, but never came to anything except ruffled feathers among the locals. Manukau City must have had a fixation about this area, as they had a grand pland in 2006 for a "Colin Dale Motorsport Park" at the left of the plan where "CD" is marked. This would have had kart track, blokarts, offroaders' tracks, 550 metre speedway, etc etc and heaven knows what else. It is marked on the now Auckland Council maps /aerials, but otherwise vanished without trace, apart from in the minds of the anti-Western Springs lot.

Also found a RNZAF map of Seagrove aerodrome (in a local history named "The Mystery of the History of Waiau Pa")
as follows :

http://s6.postimage.org/le7ec53ld/Seagrove002.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
Disregard the North arrow, it seems to be pointing about NE instead.

Stu

[bob homewood]

Stu,yes glad you remember the article as well ,at least I know my memory is still ok ,Normans Hill road that rings a bell now,and I have a feeling the date was mentioned as possibly for late February

[pallmall]

The Colin Dale Park thing is still on the table and very much favoured by Auckland's current Mayor as a site for a speedway track. I hope that he learnt something on Saturday at the FIM Speedway GP at Western Springs and perhaps can grasp the idea that Western Springs should be left alone for Speedway and that it has a valuble role to play for Auckland and Tourism. 23,500 people at the event must have had some impact on the Council.
Anyway that is modern stuff even if we are trying to protect something that started in 1929.

The Onehunga Track, it would have been up Normans Hill Rd, left into Arthur St and left (after a 3 point turn!) into Beachcroft Ave and back along for another left into Normans Hill Rd.

[pallmall]

Newspaper advertising for the first car Seagrove meeting held on Sunday 13th April 1947. The Stock Cars are of course ordinary road cars, not the speedway type. There were probably more bike meetings held at Seagrove than car meetings including the 1951 TT on a 4 mile course around the complex.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/12041947advt002Standarde-mailview.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/12041947advt001Standarde-mailview.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/12041947advt003Standarde-mailview.jpg

[stubuchanan]

The Colin Dale Park thing is still on the table and very much favoured by Auckland's current Mayor as a site for a speedway track. I hope that he learnt something on Saturday at the FIM Speedway GP at Western Springs and perhaps can grasp the idea that Western Springs should be left alone for Speedway and that it has a valuble role to play for Auckland and Tourism. 23,500 people at the event must have had some impact on the Council.
Anyway that is modern stuff even if we are trying to protect something that started in 1929.

The Onehunga Track, it would have been up Normans Hill Rd, left into Arthur St and left (after a 3 point turn!) into Beachcroft Ave and back along for another left into Normans Hill Rd.

What's wrong with a 3-point-turn hairpin? The ridiculous hairpin at the 1.5 mile Symmons Plains track is obviously satisfactory for the ever-so-picky Oz V8 promoters who don't think Hampton Downs is long enough. Who needs them!

Stu

[pallmall]

Well, we were looking forward to this meeting and did many practice laps after the circuit and meeting was announced. The hairpin was certainly where we would have watched from. Will take some photos of what the road is like next time I go past.

Not sure who wants the Oz V8s here, somebody must, but I am yet to meet them.

[David McKinney]

Newspaper advertising for the first car Seagrove meeting held on Sunday 13th April 1947
As far as I can discover, the first Seagrove meeting was on 10/11/46, and cars also raced at a motorbike meeting there two weeks later

[pallmall]

As far as I can discover, the first Seagrove meeting was on 10/11/46, and cars also raced at a motorbike meeting there two weeks later

Could be, there is a fair bit of contradictory info out there.
David, do you want a copy of the DVD?

[thunder427]

.......Aranui Speedway/Christchurch,now there is a 'Great' bit of history...Ronnie Moore/Barry Briggs/Ivan 'even bigger collection of trophies'Mauger,there is a site covering the 'Glory Days'...then what about that fantastic Annual Motorcycle Meeting each year at Cust,north of Christchurch.........don't argue!!!,Motorcycles count,Moore ran 'single seaters'....Crosby /Bathurst, etcetcetcetc!!!!!!!!.....regards thunder427/MJ:cool:

[SPman]

Thread Dredge (working my way through from the earliest - there is some interesting stuff in these earlier posts), to answer the original question, these are all horse training tracks for pacers or trotters, as originally surmised. The only auto style track I can recall was a go cart track in Bush Rd in the mid 60's - not visible on this 1963 Google overlay.

These 2 horse tracks were off Oteha Valley Rd - the top one was Ben Davies - in use until about 1970, I think and the other one was on our farm towards North Cross - hadn't been used since the 50's and was being obliterated by strawberry patches......

[George Sheweiry]

My Dad (yes another George) wasnt really that keen on me racing--- "Cars are for driving from A to B son!!" So I was astounded to find out not long after he passed away that he had raced a ford 10 at Seagrove!! I wonder if there is a race program with him listed on it. You never Know.

[Jeff]

Hi Guys , I have read in the past that Seagrove was an "emergency airfield" in case anything happened to Ardmore during WW2.
Like Cambria Park , it was an American operated base.
Never paved, ( though the airfield roads may have been ) the grass airfield needed to be big enough for bombers to land on.
I'ts big alright , and you can only see a small amount from the road without tresspassing.
2 runways in the shape of an " L " made their way around the point at the end of Seagrove road.
I know speed trials were held there in the 50's - Bruce and Les McLaren made the long trip there a few times and a speedway midget in the hands of American Frank " Satan "Brewer clocked close to 100mph.

[Trevor Sheffield]

Seagrove airstrip was certainly paved with US forces introducing the first paving machines to NZ.

I watched cars racing there more than sixty years ago. I recall Laurie Powell driving both his V8 engined Ford B4 roadster against an immaculate pre war Auburn Speedster, and also running his speedway midget. Ron Roycroft ran a Riley engined midget, as well as whatever he had on hand. I think George Smith was there with the first edition of his GeeCeeEss. Racing was simply up and down the runway around 44 gallon drums, and mostly constituted handicap events. I think the public were given the opportunity to have a run, but not as part of the competition. The surface soon became quickly broken up by farm animals as it had no real foundations and became unusable.

I also remember competing at a club meeting run on another disused air strip in South Auckland and organised by the by the Northern Sports Car club around the mid 1950's. The club captain and president had fun in Nippy Austin Sevens. The venue must have had a name but can't recall it. I do remember that stock were grazed there and at one point we had to negotiate a gateway complete with solid strainer posts and am sure that few protective hay bales were on hand. Can any other old timer remember this venue?

I ran an AC sports car fitted with a flat head Ford V8, as well as a Standard Vanguard saloon. I wish I could find the AC as my son would very much like to have it as a restoration project. It was last seen in Hamilton and the Waikato some fifty years ago, at one time I was told with a calf in the back. LOL. Any news regarding this very worthy car, would be sincerely appreciated.

[Jeff]

Thanks for the correction Trevor !
Just goes to show that no matter what you read - there's no substitute for actually being there at the time.
As much as I would love to have a wander around the place I have always respected the owners " no trespassing" signs.

[Jeff]

Can anybody tell me ( or have photo's of ) the Queenstown road hillclimb in Auckland ?
Queenstown road is now a main motorway feeder to the S.E motorway at Hillsborough / Onehunga and I just cannot imagine it once being a motorsport event road - unless the event included adjoining streets such as Frederick Street and Carlton Road in Hillsborough.
I know Sir Tom Clark raced there a few times and held the hill record for a while in the 50's.
Any maps of the course or photo's ??

[stubuchanan]

Trevor - would your Northern SCC track have been Cambria Park? Not an airstrip but a US army camp from World War 2, at Puhinui, just south of Papatoetoe. See the aerial photo on page 1 (?) of this thread where there could have been a gate halfway round the curve at the southern end of the track.

Re Seagrove, at present I have (by coincidence) an Auckland Library copy of the book by Max Poole "Seagrove - Where's That" . The late 'Pallmall' mentioned this book earlier in this thread too. Poole's father was caretaker of the place after the war when it was used as a race circuit, and Max used to help the bikers set up the track for racing. As well as aircraft shots, the book has some interesting car and motorcycle photos and memorabilia and is well worth a look.

Stu

[Milan Fistonic]

Here's Frank Brewer in his midget at Seagrove in 1947.


22893

[Milan Fistonic]

As far as I can discover, the first Seagrove meeting was on 10/11/46, and cars also raced at a motorbike meeting there two weeks later


I have a report on the first meeting at Seagrove and it starts with this paragraph.

On Sunday, November 10th [1946], Seagrove Aerodrome, about 30 miles from Auckland, was the scene of the first motor racing meeting in New Zealand to be held on a sealed course. The meeting was staged by the New Zealand Motor Racing Drivers' Association [soon to become the Auckland Car Club], who secured special permission to use the site from the Air Department. Events for midget, stock and sports cars, and also for motorcycles, were watched by almost 7000 spectators.

It's interesting that they were able to run such an event on a Sunday. Was there a law change to keep Sundays free of sporting events because I'm sure when I started going to motor races most if not all were on Saturdays? I recall the trouble the clubs had to get Sunday meetings at Pukekohe.

[Trevor Sheffield]

Trevor - would your Northern SCC track have been Cambria Park? Not an airstrip but a US army camp from World War 2, at Puhinui, just south of Papatoetoe. See the aerial photo on page 1 (?) of this thread where there could have been a gate halfway round the curve at the southern end of the track.

Re Seagrove, at present I have (by coincidence) an Auckland Library copy of the book by Max Poole "Seagrove - Where's That" . The late 'Pallmall' mentioned this book earlier in this thread too. Poole's father was caretaker of the place after the war when it was used as a race circuit, and Max used to help the bikers set up the track for racing. As well as aircraft shots, the book has some interesting car and motorcycle photos and memorabilia and is well worth a look.

Stu

Thanks Stu,

You have triggered my memory and I think that we used to refer to it as simply “Puhinui”. After I posted, I had second thoughts about it being an airfield, as I then recalled getting the Vanguard very much sideways at a tight right hand corner preceded by a short slightly down hill piece, and there were trees and leaves on the ground. Whatever, it was a lot of fun and the limits were certainly tested. It was standard practice to well and truly overdo things during practice runs, in order to establish those limits.

I also remember another interesting gate which was negotiated at a hill climb venue South Auckland. We called it the up and down hillclimb and it was fast. A farm gate was at the crest of a short uphill stretch after a short downhill and corner. It was made specially interesting as at the entry was an iron rail surfaced cattle stop and on the other side an immediate tight right hander. Both the crossing and gate were best negotiated in a power slide so as to be set up for the corner. Ouch!

Cheers, Trevor.

[Rod Grimwood]

Trevor there was a hillclimb like that at top of Bombays think it was Bright Road event,( at Bombays anyway) as that had a gate and was interesting up and down. The one where Couchy in his Escort set fastest time on his nose then roof through gate at finish line many years later.

[Trevor Sheffield]

Trevor there was a hillclimb like that at top of Bombays think it was Bright Road event,( at Bombays anyway) as that had a gate and was interesting up and down. The one where Couchy in his Escort set fastest time on his nose then roof through gate at finish line many years later.

Not that one Rod, at the time i.e. late fifties, escorts were confined to accompanying city mayors and the like. LOL.

[Rod Grimwood]

Not that one Rod, at the time i.e. late fifties, escorts were confined to accompanying city mayors and the like. LOL.

Apparently not much has changed with Mayors over the years. Yea realized different Escorts in those days, but they do some times go to the same places at a later date.
There were a couple of interesting hillclimbs that went up and down and through gates back in the years.


cheers.

[Jeff]

Hi Rod , Can you or anyone else remember exactly where this course was ? I know there is a Bright ( or Bright's ) Road in Waiuku but this isn't it.
I would very much like to find the exact location and visit the farm track ( if it still exists ) , perhaps even take Bob Couch along for a look - with appropriate permission from landowners of course.
Bob himself can't remember - hell , he rolled and crashed his way around the Bombay hills in a few locations.... Pinnacle Hill Road etc
The 1979 Tectyl Rallysprint at this location was televised but nobody I know has any footage except perhaps Brian Connell but it can't be currently found. Can anyone help ?? It would be very much appreciated.
These 2 photo's appeared in the Tectyl company newsletter and the 3rd photo is a shelf in my garage with Bob's old Bell helmet and a model of the ex- Roger Clark Escort
229082290922910

[Raceman]

Hi Rod , Can you or anyone else remember exactly where this course was ? I know there is a Bright ( or Bright's ) Road in Waiuku but this isn't it.
I would very much like to find the exact location and visit the farm track ( if it still exists ) , perhaps even take Bob Couch along for a look - with appropriate permission from landowners of course.
Bob himself can't remember - hell , he rolled and crashed his way around the Bombay hills in a few locations.... Pinnacle Hill Road etc
The 1979 Tectyl Rallysprint at this location was televised but nobody I know has any footage except perhaps Brian Connell but it can't be currently found. Can anyone help ?? It would be very much appreciated.
These 2 photo's appeared in the Tectyl company newsletter and the 3rd photo is a shelf in my garage with Bob's old Bell helmet and a model of the ex- Roger Clark Escort
229082290922910

This event was held on a Farm owned by the Aitkenheads. Is was on Ridge Road Bombay. It was the 1st televised Rallysprint held in NZ. The Pukekohe Car Club used the venue for hillclimbs, Grasstrack racing and even some great Barn dances etc.. I think the farm has now been sold. Many great times were had at this venue

[Grant Sprague]

Has any one got piks of Timaru,s first race track at Salt Water Creek [Redruth Air Port] ... TIMARU...... this will get you busy ...& thinking

[Jeff]

Thank you very much Raceman - knowing the farm is on Ridge Road ( I drive that road a lot and never knew ! ) is a great start.
Looks like I have some detective work to do to find an Aitkenhead family member who can tell me more

[John McKechnie]

I hill climbed there early to mid 70s in a Mini Cooper S.
Louie Antoneivich was there in the longest Gold Flash 390 you have ever seen.
The Leopard had sharp fingernails to stay on those corners.

[BMCBOY]

These 2 photo's appeared in the Tectyl company newsletter and the 3rd photo is a shelf in my garage with Bob's old Bell helmet and a model of the ex- Roger Clark Escort
22910[/QUOTE]



This is a photo of Bob and John taken after the crash wearing face protection due to lack of a windscreen

22920


I have also added more photos from that event on Club Events thread

[Jeff]

Thanks for that photo Ross - thats one I have never seen before.
There is a great colour photo of the car being taken back to the pits after their "off"
I was given a copy of this photo so I don't know who took the pic so I apologise in advance if the photographer sees his photo being used here
regards
Jeff
22940

[RacerT]

Bright Rd hillclimb was one of the few sealed hillclimbs around. I ran my Lotus Elan up it in about 1973, just after a grader had spread loose metal on it the day before. 22974

[Carlo]

Here are a couple of photos from the early days of the South Canterbury Car Club. They were taken at one of the 1st grass track meetings held at Washdyke at the Northern end of Timaru. The venue was behind what was later known as the Doncaster Hotel and current site of Leo Leonard Motors. How many of these faces can you identify Grant Sprague?

[Grant Sprague]

Len. s, Angus.L ,Gerald.M Dad...............Carl I never new they had grass track meetings there .... Ernie never talked of it, but remember, salt water creek track , before levels...... Wooooow Carl..... got any more........ marry xmas mate..

[Kwaussie]

Car #10 is from Invercargill, Bill Crosbie [older brother of Brian C.] in his A40 Special.

[Carlo]

Len. s, Angus.L ,Gerald.M Dad...............Carl I never new they had grass track meetings there .... Ernie never talked of it, but remember, salt water creek track , before levels...... Wooooow Carl..... got any more........ marry xmas mate..

Photos are upstairs in the clubrooms, another spot you and I need to check out next time you are down, and how could you forget Joss Timms.

[Grant Sprague]

Photos are upstairs in the clubrooms, another spot you and I need to check out next time you are down, and how could you forget Joss Timms. Carl , is that Joss by the mg ?? .... mind you Carl , what year was this ... I might not have been born then .......... but remember him well , lovely man..great Timaruvian racer ..

[Carlo]

Carl , is that Joss by the mg ?? .... mind you Carl , what year was this ... I might not have been born then .......... but remember him well , lovely man..great Timaruvian racer ..

Mate I was hardly born then.
Joss is easy to identify, he is the only Chinaman in the photo.

Ernie, Gerry & Co formed the club in 1946 and I think that this was about a 2-3 years after that, I have to go by the stories that Gerry told me in those long past days of my apprenticeship.

[Grant Sprague]

Ha ha Carl .Well that must be Joss then by MG ,mind you the pik is not !00% clear , is that Ron McGregor other side of the 16 car. Hey top pic is that Ernie ???? going wide.... brave men , top heavy no roll......bar.....Got a couple of the 4CLT & P3 Alfa , hope to have them up here in NY ??. You can see Len Sheed he was one of Ernie,s buddies..... I ended up going to UK with his son John , Ernie told me when they both tuned 21 they went down to number 1 warf with a 1/5 G beer & that was it lol

[David McKinney]

Godfrey Paape from Dunedin with the A90 Atlantic?

Bill Southby (Ernie's mate) with the Model A roadster?

[Grant Sprague]

Woooow , John......... I looked into the face , Bill was very young there , Bill was a cripple always on crutches......a strange little man , so there you go , he use to hang about in the work shop also nick name was Souz short for [Southby].. well done thanks

[digbyp]

Godfrey Paape from Dunedin with the A90 Atlantic?

Bill Southby (Ernie's mate) with the Model A roadster?


That's Godfrey in the hat. Might be me by the Opel Kadett with my hands in my pockets! We stayed with Matthew Will's who had a fabulous estate nearby. We raced back there in the A90 behind his supercharged Mercedes (500) which was flinging off tread! I remember we were doing over 90 mph. I'd be in the back seat loving every minute of it

[Grant Sprague]

Digbyp...... there are some beautiful /English buildings & Estates around South Canterbury..one springs to mind just north of where this grass track was ..on the left past Temuka heading north is this the one ..gee so much history there .. just a wild card guess...

[Jeff]

Crystal Palace track in the U.K is now pretty much a "lost" old racetrack now...
I just love the last part of this film from the 1971 British saloon car champs with Mike Crabtree in the Willment RS1600 Escort as he rounds up the larger engined opposition.
This is brilliant racing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDAK4jBKmow

[Grant Ellwood]

Fantastic racing by all the front runners but really great car control by Martin Thomas in the Camaro, tossing it around like the Escort.
Perhaps we can see that sort of action in HMC? (I'm not being serious....).

[Roger Dowding]

[QUOTE=Milan Fistonic;11860]Thanks pallmall.

This event must have taken place as the programme I have has results written in for two of the four races scheduled.

The names are a bit hard to read but the circuit used the roads around Mount Atkinson. The intersection at the left of the circuit is where Woodlands Park Road joins the Senic Drive by the Filter Station. The road across the bottom is the Senic Drive but is called Exhibition now Senic Drive on the map. The junction on the right is where Atkinson Road joins the Senic Drive, Titirangi Road and what was View Road (now Kohu Road).

I lived just a couple of miles down Titirangi Road at that time but don't recall anything about the event. I was only 10 in 1952 and it wasn't until I was taken to the 1955 NZIGP that I got bitten by the motor racing bug.


7033[/QUOTE

Remember that Motorcycles also raced around New Lynn, the brickworks circuit that included part of Clark St [ anticlockwise then Rankin Margan Astley and back to Clark.
A sidecar complete with crew went right through a fence panel at the lefthander Margan to Astley. how they missed the post and got the panel was good luck.
ran for a couple of years in the late 70's [ memory vague - but my brother lived in Islington and there was a walkway beside his house and the Anglican Church through to Margan Ave.
Also as I had lived in New Lynn, mid 50's to 1970, went to New Lynn primary school [ the old building on the corner of Rankin Margan, Hutchinson.

Seagrove, my Uncle Eddie Dowding who was Club Captain NSCC back in the 1940's and my Dad " Mac used to talk about it, once took the Austin Healey Club to entrance as part of a drive to " old and new tracks of South Auckland " back in 1990.

[Skypilot]

I rode a motorbike around a dirt track somewhere in that locality off Target or Wairau Rd. Could have been around 1955. It was on Cox's farm and it was quite popular for many of us who enjoyed a thrill.


Hi Guys.

I was wondering if anyone can help me? I was looking at some old aerial shots of Auckland's North Shore (on google earth) and I noticed 2 race tracks, one in Glenfield and one in Albany. I don't know if these are car, motorbike or carting tracks, but I was hoping someone could shed some light into what they were used for. These shots are circa 1963.

The Albany one was located right next to the Albany pub, on state highway one. The Glenfield one was next to Target Rd, but accessed via Wairau Rd. Possibly owned by a car club?

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Rik

65016502

[SPman]

There were a lot of horse trotting training tracks around Albany - a couple up Oteha Valley Road...Ben Davies and the remains of one on our farm. This could also be a horse track maybe the Wellsfords or the Stevensons.....if you go up the hill from the pub, there was Ned Neville's car wreckers - a treasure trove for us young'uns if you could get in and avoid the dogs...... (I assume this is off Google Earth - 1963 ECBBC views)

[Allan]

There was motorcycle racing around the streets in Whakatane back in the 1950s. The course ran somewhere around the high school.

[Rod Grimwood]

There was a go kart track in the old Bush Rd, and another semi oval popped up on the University site when it was first cleared, was good test ground for Waikaraka saloons and other cars.

[seaqnmac27]

Not a New Zealand circuit but certainly related and in this, its original configuration, certainly a lost Race track.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvIDfqP8pIU

[Roger Dowding]

Just scrolling old threads and came across this one ..

My father Mac Dowding [ 1917 - 1999 ] and his brother Ed Dowding [ 1919 - 2018 ] -my Uncle of NSCC fame talked about Seagrove which was used in the late 1940's - early 1950's
The site can be still be seen on Google Maps - off Seagrove Road on the Peninsula near Clarks Creek, Waiau Pa and is part of a farm - but no indication of the track which was a simple shape;

This is a rendition of the track ; courtesy of Bob Homewood, NSCC member for many years, and serious car driver.

60975

and an article on racing there - also from Bob Homewood

60976

A further report " Around the Clubs "- posted by Milan Fistonic on the Northern Sports car Club thread some time ago.

60977

There are many lost tracks in New Zealand- Baypark and Levin probably the best known with others thta were popular in their day.

Mairehau, Christchurch
Matamata - Waikato
Napier - Hawkes Bay
Paritutu, New Plymouth
Ryal Bush, Invercargill
Waimate - Canterbury

and many more ;

The if we look at Speedways and Hill Climbs the list is large.

[Oldfart]

Add in all the Grass track venues and it's huge!
Waharoa, Raglan,..

[nigel watts]

I can remember my dad taking me to a motor bike race which was held, I think, on the road at Te Puna in Tauranga. This would have been in the 1950's.

[stubuchanan]

Go back to pages 4 & 5 of this thread and you will find more about Seagrove. Back in the 1990's we had a beach place on the far side of the Manukau Harbour. A neighbour there who had a fishing cabin, farmed part of Seagrove and confirmed that even after 50 years the remains of the runways were still visible. Also mentioned bulldozers being bogged down in the mudflats during construction.

Stu

[Ray Bell]

Is anyone able to tell what famous circuit these photos are from?

https://i.postimg.cc/HLPTBsp1/0319fr7352014c.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/NjDs2kSM/0319fr7352014d.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RF6485F6/0319fr7352014e.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QMMXQWZq/0319fr7352014f.jpg

They are in order, taken in the past six years.

[Grant Ellwood]

Is anyone able to tell what famous circuit these photos are from?

https://i.postimg.cc/HLPTBsp1/0319fr7352014c.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/NjDs2kSM/0319fr7352014d.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RF6485F6/0319fr7352014e.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QMMXQWZq/0319fr7352014f.jpg

They are in order, taken in the past six years.

Oran Park?

[bry3500]

Is anyone able to tell what famous circuit these photos are from?

https://i.postimg.cc/HLPTBsp1/0319fr7352014c.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/NjDs2kSM/0319fr7352014d.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RF6485F6/0319fr7352014e.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QMMXQWZq/0319fr7352014f.jpg

They are in order, taken in the past six years.

Catalina Park?

[Ray Bell]

No, neither of those...

It's a public road circuit which predated both of those by a number of decades.

[Roger Dowding]

Go back to pages 4 & 5 of this thread and you will find more about Seagrove. Back in the 1990's we had a beach place on the far side of the Manukau Harbour. A neighbour there who had a fishing cabin, farmed part of Seagrove and confirmed that even after 50 years the remains of the runways were still visible. Also mentioned bulldozers being bogged down in the mudflats during construction.

Stu

Stu, Thanks, have had a re-read and Bob Homewood's post was from the article that was later scanned and posted. Cheers

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Grant Ellwood
Oran Park?


Originally posted by bry3500
Catalina Park?

To clarify a little, there are two straights on this circuit which are each longer than the total length of the two circuits mentioned.

Look at the trees for clues...

[khyndart in CA]

Great question Ray,
Vehicles driving on Right side of road, palm trees and a 100 + year old tree growing where the track went near water !
I am looking forward to the answer.

Ken H

[Roger Dowding]

Add in all the Grass track venues and it's huge!
Waharoa, Raglan,..

Oldfart, Yes I forgot those, - there was Kerpehi Domain too, one of the first race meetings I drove myself to in February 1967 and saw Jim Boyd in the Lycoming .. plus some V8 Coupes from the Pukekohe Car Club and elsewhere in the Waikato / Auckland regions.

[Roger Dowding]

To clarify a little, there are two straights on this circuit which are each longer than the total length of the two circuits mentioned.

Look at the trees for clues...

" longer " so perhaps Longford in Tasmania - where the circuit ran right past the Local Tavern .As a Track now Long Gone, but the Pub still there !!

[Ray Bell]

No, not Longford...

Catalina was 1m 512yards IIRC, Oran Park's longest version was about 1.6 miles, so I'm talking about two straights on a circuit each of over three miles. Longford was 4.5 miles, but that included three long straights with the longest about a mile, though it did have a good long windup with a very shallow corner onto it.

Neither of the circuits are in Australia. As I said about the first one, there's clues in the trees.

[Milan Fistonic]

No, not Longford...

Catalina was 1m 512yards IIRC, Oran Park's longest version was about 1.6 miles, so I'm talking about two straights on a circuit each of over three miles. Longford was 4.5 miles, but that included three long straights with the longest about a mile, though it did have a good long windup with a very shallow corner onto it.

Neither of the circuits are in Australia. As I said about the first one, there's clues in the trees.

Is it Watkins Glen? The circuit used in 1948 was 6.6 miles.

[khyndart in CA]

I thought it might be the original Singapore track at Old Upper Thomson Road but all my guessing does not include the driving on the right side in modern day driving.



Come on Ray, how long are you going to test / taunt us ?

Ken

[John McKechnie]

graeme lawrence - V6 Ferrari and some Aussies raced on a narrow road race track similar trees next to it in Kuala Lumpa-Selangor Grand Prix and Malaya /Singapore in 1969 /1970.
Frank Matich hit a tree in his McLaren M10A 1970 ...is one of those trees the one?

[Ray Bell]

No, no, no!

All these circuits you have mentioned have no long straights like this. I am talking about straights FOUR MILES long. Each.

Please, gentlemen, look at the trees.

https://i.postimg.cc/MZ7KQq1G/0319fr7352014g.jpg

[John McKechnie]

AVUS-
At the time of opening, AVUS was ​19 1⁄2 km (12 miles) long – each straight being approximately half that length, and joined at each end by flat, large-radius curves, driven counter-clockwise...WIKKIPEDIA

[Ray Bell]

Not Avus...

And Avus had nothing of the bends I have shown anyway. In fact, the closest anyone's been was the first person to have a guess! And I don't mean which circuit he guessed, either.

[Ray Bell]

I do hope that overnight someone will get this worked out...

Then I can throw this one at you:

https://i.postimg.cc/8k6ywTGQ/0319fr2016-Eurod.jpg

Though it is true that there is already another one on the board.

[Roger Dowding]

Re " All these circuits you have mentioned have no long straights like this. I am talking about straights FOUR MILES long. Each.

Please, gentlemen, look at the trees. "

As Spike Milligan once said " I talk to the trees, thats why they put me away "

[Ray Bell]

There is something unique about the appearance of many of the trees around this circuit...

It shows up in this painting:

https://i.postimg.cc/FRPB1kzk/0319helckpainting.jpg

Does that help?

[khyndart in CA]

Wild guess but the Vanderbilt Cup races held from 1908 to 1911 ran on a course in Savannah, Georgia. USA.
It had long straights up to 5 miles long and ran past trees "bearded with Spanish Moss. "
So it can be seen that this has not been a race track for a long time and the cars drive on the right side etc..

(Am I getting close Ray ?)
p.s. It was the Grant Ellwood tip that helped me, thanks.
Ken H

[Ray Bell]

You got it, Ken!

I was delighted to drive around it and photograph it in 2014, what an eye-opener it was!

And thank you for telling me that is 'Spanish Moss'... I always wondered what it was from the first time I saw drawings of it in Peter Helck's book, The Great Auto Races.

I actually felt sure that others would have identified it from that alone.

Okay, chaps, let's press on with the second one... the pics (which I mistakenly thought I'd already posted, sorry):

https://i.postimg.cc/PrjJfLG5/0319fr2016-Euroa.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/dtj1hqvm/0319fr2016-Eurob.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/x1jdHW1r/0319fr2016-Euroc.jpg

Please note, these are not the circuit from which I posted the photo in post No. 151.

[Grant Ellwood]

You got it, Ken!

I was delighted to drive around it and photograph it in 2014, what an eye-opener it was!

And thank you for telling me that is 'Spanish Moss'... I always wondered what it was from the first time I saw drawings of it in Peter Helck's book, The Great Auto Races.

I actually felt sure that others would have identified it from that alone.

Okay, chaps, let's press on with the second one... the pics (which I mistakenly thought I'd already posted, sorry):

https://i.postimg.cc/PrjJfLG5/0319fr2016-Euroa.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/dtj1hqvm/0319fr2016-Eurob.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/x1jdHW1r/0319fr2016-Euroc.jpg


Please note, these are not the circuit from which I posted the photo in post No. 151.

Benalla?

[Ray Bell]

Benalla was a triangle of roads on an area which later became a country airstrip...

From memory it was less than two miles around.

Once again a clue... the cars are driving on the RH side of the road.

[Ray Bell]

But you've got me thinking, Grant...

How did you know about Benalla? It's a long, long way from VA.

[Grant Ellwood]

I'm a Kiwi Ray, been living up here for just 20 years although before that I visited US often (and Australia). I'm moving to coastal North Carolina soon, should have been late last year but hurricane Florence damaged our house there. Benalla is one of those names that stuck in my memory from regularly reading one of your fine racing magazines back in the '60s, Sports Car -? I recall an article that described the testing crash that wrecked a Lotus 19, I think a journalist was driving? You can tell by the question marks that my memory isn't that great! Thanks for posting those track quizzes, very interesting and frustrating at the same time...
I first thought it might be Reims but wasn't sure about which side of the road they drive on in Belgium...

[Ray Bell]

Yes, I thought you might be a South Islander who's found another part of the world to make home...

The Lotus 19 was crashed by the mechanic, Bruce Richardson, at Warwick Farm.

When you mention Benalla, I think you might be referring to Winton, which is near Benalla. It's a little circuit in a paddock which is actually a Common. The circuit I would refer to as Benalla was used just once and I don't think the meeting made it as far as actual racing before police intervened and stopped it all. That was about 1938.

I do like 'investigating' old circuits. As far as I know, and I've tried to find out, I am the only person who's seen every circuit on which the Australian Grand Prix has been held. And because I started driving around them and looking at them so long ago, many I've seen are simply no longer there.

When I did my jaunt around Europe almost three years ago I visited a number of old circuits, so I'll keep posting pics here and see who can pick them. US circuits weren't so numerous, but there were a few apart from Savannah.

And to Ken, the Vanderbilt Cup races were important at Savannah, but the US Grand Prize was held there as well. That would be the title to the races I'd put at the top of the list. There were others, too, I found in googling around. And I also found pictures of convicts working on the roads in preparation for the races, and that some new road-building methods were perfected in the course of their experimentation with making those roads better.

Reading this...

http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/biblio3/26/FirstUS_GP.pdf

...will fascinate anyone on this forum, I'd reckon. And some pictures are pretty good too.

The one thing lacking about the Savannah circuits (I think there were three versions) is decent published maps. They are just hopeless!

[khyndart in CA]

Thanks Ray,
That is a good read about the Savannah road races.
I thought you might enjoy this period read from 1908.

https://books.google.com/books?id=NTs-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA307&dq=what+road+race+course+has+straights+four+miles+long+pics&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD77KkuIzhAhWRG3wKHYBtAKsQuwUINzAC#v=onepage&q=what%20road%20race%20course%20has%20straights%20four%20miles%20long%20pics&f=false

Also this site is easier on an old geezer like me.
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/then_now_1911_vanderbilt_cup_race_course-_waters_street_savannah

A 1908 map of the course.
61072

Thanks for providing another stop to our possible cross- country "Bucket List" trip.

Ken H.

[Ray Bell]

Mind you, Ken, it's not all as easy to find as it might be with modern road diversions etc...

But it is very instructive!

And that map is one of the shorter courses, probably the shortest, it doesn't include a loop in the Skidway area (which I neglected to drive as well) nor the bit down to the southern shores.

[Ray Bell]

Perhaps a further clue...

These scenes cover some of the same bit of road:

https://i.postimg.cc/15DD5k4p/032019eurocomparepic.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/8c6Mv34g/0319fr2016euroecompare.jpg

The passing of time, development, different camera locations all make for some differences, but I'm sure it's the same bit of road.

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
Was it where they ran the 1906 French Grand Prix in the Le Mans area ?
61077

I enjoy your challenges and if I am wrong at least enjoy this old clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paaY1SGOxzs


Ken
p.s. I note the racers are RH drive but they drive on the right side now in France.
When did it change ?

[Ray Bell]

Not Le Mans...

Right country, right race, wrong year, wrong track.

Weren't Ferrari sports cars all RHD, cars like the P4 etc?

[khyndart in CA]

How about Dieppe in 1907- 1908. ?

https://www.jagerhobby.com/the-1907-formula-1-grand-prix-a-race-of-extraordinary-gentlemen/

61078


Ken

[Ray Bell]

Not Dieppe...

A little later.

Maybe some trackside scenery will help?

https://i.postimg.cc/2652cJPB/0319fr2016eurof.jpg

[khyndart in CA]

As no one else has attempted, this is my final entry to your question Ray.

Amiens circuit. 1913 French Grand Prix.

61079

Another good, interesting read here;
https://primotipo.com/tag/1913-french-grand-prix/



(Ken)

[Ray Bell]

That's the one, Ken...

With the photos above being from Moreuil and the WW1 war graves (virtually in a creek!) being from about Domart-sur-la-Luce.

Maybe if you got that up on Google Earth you'd see the war cemetery in the low ground and a bigger one just across the road.

[Ray Bell]

Ken is so right here...

There's been over 150 views of this thread in the past couple of days but he's the only one still 'having a go'. Well, maybe this one is easier? Strictly speaking it's four from one circuit and one from a deviation of that circuit.

https://i.postimg.cc/dVLzr0FM/0319fr2014735-V1a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/8kbQV34Y/0319fr2014735-V1b.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9BdkQ6/0319fr2014735-V1c.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/dttMQBSV/0319fr2014735-V1d.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sgqbcRfM/0319fr2014735-V2a.jpg

[Roger Dowding]

" There's been over 150 views of this thread in the past couple of days but he's the only one still 'having a go'. "
never known Ray Bell to have so many posts - he lost me with the tracks.

Don't think there is a plan of this one - Lost as a Track but still there - Muriwai Beach, No Toheroa Season these days.

61099

Bruce McLaren Austin 7, Colin McGregor Morris Minor, Ray Howarth Morris Eight and then Ralph Watson in the BSA Special ..
This is lost Cars as well as lost tracks, - the BSA is still around and competes - The Austin Seven - there was replica built for the McLaren Movie then taken apart again !! the two Morris' ??

[Ray Bell]

Come on, Roger...

Have a guess at this Yankee track.

[John McKechnie]

Roger...Legends of Speed this weekend...do you know the track and how to get there?

[Grant Ellwood]

Ray, is the US track Upper Marlboro?

[Ray Bell]

No... I didn't realise that Upper Marlboro was a public road circuit.

This one was mentioned as a possible answer to the Savannah pics.

[khyndart in CA]

Come on, Roger...

Have a guess at this Yankee track.

Roger,
I have learnt a lot with Ray Bell's old track questions as I knew diddly squat about them before this.

As I finally guessed the first two I am not answering this one except to say that near where I lived in Kiwitahi was a road called Milliken's. Now that was the name of of one of the corners on this old Yankee road course.

Go for it Roger !
Ken.

[Ray Bell]

Actually, no...

Milliken's was several states to the East of this one.

And to further help Roger (or Grant... or anyone...), June was seen as a good time at this one.

[Roger Dowding]

Actually, no...

Milliken's was several states to the East of this one.

And to further help Roger (or Grant... or anyone...), June was seen as a good time at this one.

June the Lemons Race ?? [ .. oops I meant Le Mans -in Reims France !! ]

I am more familiar with this one ... a bit closer to home - Aotearoa - NZ ..

61101

The AH 100 is Des Spillane - not as noted on the photo
61102

61103

[Ray Bell]

No lemons...

Heard of the 'June Sprints'?

[khyndart in CA]

Plus there is a big event close by on June 23rd 2019.

61104
1951.
" I've had enough of these noisy machines, I'm going back to the farm to milk the cows !"

[Ray Bell]

That's just what people do in that state, Ken, isn't it?

Not that you can see any cows as you drive by...

[khyndart in CA]

1951
You may not see any cows in the photo but you can almost see the whites of John Fitch's eyes and his hair going grey as he flashes past in his race winning Cunningham C2-R !
It was incidents like this that caused this public road circuit to close down shortly after.
61123



(Ken H)

[Roger Dowding]

1951
You may not see any cows in the photo but you can almost see the whites of John Fitch's eyes and his hair going grey as he flashes past in his race winning Cunningham C2-R !
It was incidents like this that caused this public road circuit to close down shortly after.
61123



(Ken H)

The C-2 R is unusual in having a fully framed windscreen - the C2's at Le Mans in 1951 [ 3 of them ] had low screens, one very low so that the rear vision mirror stuck up high in the air on its mounting.

Ken H, this is being written, not far from Kiwitahi, as I am on a farm in Te Poi at the moment, was in Matamata yesterday for shopping and a coffee - The Coffee Bar is owned by an American too !! - he is here, and you are there .. some sort of a Foreign Exchange ??

[Ray Bell]

I'm becoming very disappointed here, the 'June Sprints' were very well known and were a time for the college students in those Northern states to get away for a weekend of fun in the sun...

Meantime, here's another old race track:

https://i.postimg.cc/BZzVkmhW/0319fr-BBlbnstartlineup.jpg

Pic from 1951 or 1952, a very varied field. The width of the circuit confirms that it's an old air base.

[khyndart in CA]

Sorry Ray,
Did you want me to name that other course by the lake ?

Ken

[Ray Bell]

Ken, you've done your bit...

Dozens of others are looking in, it would be nice if one of them would stick their necks out. Even if they get it wrong they'll learn something and nobody will be nasty to them.

Do you like the Regal in the pic above?

[Paul B]

I'm becoming very disappointed here, the 'June Sprints' were very well known and were a time for the college students in those Northern states to get away for a weekend of fun in the sun...

Meantime, here's another old race track:

https://i.postimg.cc/BZzVkmhW/0319fr-BBlbnstartlineup.jpg

Pic from 1951 or 1952, a very varied field. The width of the circuit confirms that it's an old air base.

Thats a great line up Ray! I love those older shots, do you have anymore?
Cheers

[Ray Bell]

Sadly it gets worse...

https://i.postimg.cc/8cM4k0dk/0319lbnmggrid.jpg

MGs, MG Specials (including the Cobden 'Cigar') and some small fry.

https://i.postimg.cc/qB3jGNff/0319lbnprefectgrid.jpg

Now you know they're kidding, right? This was a four-mile circuit with no slow corners.

https://i.postimg.cc/7YrXtqD5/0319lbnwhiteforddavisonlaw.jpg

Kiwis might remember the car which won the 1954 NZ GP, here it is with Stan Jones aboard, Lex Davison in the Diana Davison TC Special alongside and to the right one of the great Australian Specials driven by Rex Law.

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
That Prefect is all set to go. Hubcaps removed compared to the opposition for quick pit stops and tyre changes, the headlight looks like it still has the WW 2 blackout cover on and the number 21 looks like it could be easily rubbed off for the drive home !

61170




Ken

[khyndart in CA]

C'mon folks.
Ray has given us the country and approx. dates.
How many airfields were being raced on in Australia at that time ?
As Ray states; At least give it a go and you know if I can figure it out then surely you can, as I am known here at work as not being as exactly the "sharpest knife in the drawer" !

Ken H.

[Ray Bell]

The Box Brownie pics are from Queensland in '52-'54 or so, and it's not Lowood...

We're still waiting on a finalisation of the Yankee one, open road circuit, there were two different layouts, it's a state which has a border with Canada and there's a modern artificial circuit there which hosted Can-Am and IndyCar.

By the way, Ken, did you give consideration to the valve bounce which would have been achieved by that Prefect on the long downhill leg, over a mile long after the exit to a bend that nobody ever had to back off for?

[Roger Dowding]

[QUOTE=khyndart in CA;69869]C'mon folks.
Ray has given us the country and approx. dates.
How many airfields were being raced on in Australia at that time ?
As Ray states; At least give it a go and you know if I can figure it out then surely you can, as I am known here at work as not being as exactly the "sharpest knife in the drawer" !

Ken H, and Ray Bell,
My knowledge of Australian circuits is limited. Obviously know the current ones as used by V8 Supercars series and a few smaller ones like Lakeside - as for lost tracks, Longford, Catalina Park, - for many more will have to do a lot of Google-ing.

As has mentioned NZ had a few Airfield Circuits.
Ardmore - still an airfield
Wigram - no longer used
Seagrove - went in the 1950's
Ohakea - still an airfield
Whenuapai - still an airfield ?
Hobsonville - no longer and I don't think ever hosted Motorsport
Waharoa - still an airfield - used mainly for gliders these days.

OK - enough of my " waffling " -off to play with Google and look at this Facebook Page
" Old Motor Racing Photographs - Australia "
" https://www.facebook.com/groups/190760908334658/ "

I may come back with some answers !!, but more likely some questions ??
- and it is heading for Beer O'Clock here - the first in the world in the new Day - Wednesday afternoon at 4;25 PM .. NZDST -New Zealand - Daylight Saving Time - which finishes in a couple of weekends.

Ray and I never did catch up for that chat back in 2016 - I left the " Sunburnt Country " in April 2017.

Cheers

Roger D.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, you sneaked out of there...

Airfield circuits in Australia:

Strathpine
Mt Druitt
Marsden Park
Nowra
Valleyfield
Mooliabeenie
Caversham
Pearce
Lowood
Fishermens Bend
Beverley
Schofields
Wangaratta
Busselton
Leyburn
Point Cook
Gawler
Quorn Hall
Ringwood
Ballarat
Tomago

[Roger Dowding]

A list - I have no idea of the accuracy but here is a start for Ray Bell, and Ken H ..

These are Closed or Inactive Tracks.
" Adelaide International Raceway, Adelaide, South Australia (still has limited use)
Amaroo Park, Sydney, New South Wales
Aspendale Racecourse, Aspendale, Victoria
Ballarat Airport, Ballarat, Victoria
Brenock Park Speedway, Ferntree Gully, Victoria
Brisbane Exhibition Ground, Brisbane, Queensland
Canberra International Dragway, Fairburn, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
Canberra Street Circuit, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
Castlereagh International Dragway, Sydney, New South Wales
Catalina Park, Katoomba, New South Wales
Caversham Airfield, Caversham, Western Australia
Claremont Speedway, Perth, Western Australia
Gnoo Blas Motor Racing Circuit, Orange, New South Wales
Homebush Street Circuit, Sydney Olympic Park, New South Wales
Hume Weir Motor Racing Circuit, Albury-Wodonga, New South Wales
King Edward Park Hillclimb, Newcastle, New South Wales
Liverpool Speedway, Sydney, New South Wales
Longford Circuit, Longford, Tasmania
Lowood circuit, Tarampa, Queensland
Macarthur Park Street Circuit Australian Capital Territory (motorcycle/sidecar racing only)
Oran Park Raceway, Sydney, New South Wales
Port Wakefield Circuit, Port Wakefield, South Australia
Rowley park speedway, Adelaide, South Australia
Surfers Paradise International Raceway, Gold Coast, Queensland
Sydney Showground Speedway, Sydney, New South Wales
Templestowe hillclimb racetrack, Melbourne, Victoria
Tralee Speedway, Queanbeyan, New South Wales
Warwick Farm Raceway, Sydney, New South Wales "

Includes a couple of Airfield circuits " in bold "

More to come - soon - that first Beer is now being opened I waited until 5;00 PM- such restraint ??

[Roger Dowding]

Yes, you sneaked out of there...

Airfield circuits in Australia:

Strathpine
Mt Druitt
Marsden Park
Nowra
Valleyfield
Mooliabeenie
Caversham
Pearce
Lowood
Fishermens Bend
Beverley
Schofields
Wangaratta
Busselton
Leyburn
Point Cook
Gawler
Quorn Hall
Ringwood
Ballarat
Tomago

Ray you and I were busy at the same time 5;05 pm NZdst - your list is more defined - thanks - will go to my archives.
Cheers
Roger D

[Roger Dowding]

This is a List - not complete, I am sure as know of a few others ;

" Street circuits
Cemetery Circuit, Wanganui (a.k.a. Southern Hemisphere's Isle of Man)
Dunedin Street Circuit, Dunedin (see also Southern Festival of Speed)
Paeroa Street Circuit, Paeroa (a.k.a. Battle of the Streets)
Port Nelson Street Circuit, Nelson

Permanent circuits
Circuit Chris Amon (Manfeild), Feilding
Hampton Downs, North Waikato
Highlands Motorsport Park, Cromwell new permanent track
Mike Pero Motorsport Park, Christchurch
Pukekohe Park Raceway, Pukekohe
Bruce McLaren Motorsport Park, Taupo
Teretonga Park, Invercargill
Timaru International Motor Raceway (levels), Timaru

Drag strips
Fram Autolite Dragway, Meremere
Masterton Motorplex, Masterton
Motueka Aerodrome, Motueka
Powerbuilt Raceway at Ruapuna Park, Christchurch
Taupo Motorsport Park, Taupo

Inactive tracks
Wellington Street Circuit, Wellington City (see also Wellington 500)
Wigram Airfield Circuit, Christchurch (see also Tasman Series)
Hamilton Street Circuit, Hamilton City (a.k.a. Hamilton 400)

Historic tracks
Ardmore, South Auckland (circuit/drag racing)
Kerrs Road, Wiri (drag racing)
Muriwai Beach, Muriwai
Napier Airport (drag racing)
Thunderpark, Hastings (drag racing)
Bay Park Raceway, Tauranga (circuit racing)
"
Off the top of my head - as they say.
There are quite a few missing.

in no particular order - sound s like a TV show competition !!.

Drag Strips [ lost ]
Kopuku,- near Maramarua a metal road

Road circuits [ lost ]
Mairehu, near Christchurch
Napier street circuit
Paritutu, New Plymouth
Ryall Bush,Southland

Grass and other circuits
Kerepehi Domain - Grass
Waharoa Airfield - Grass

As more come to mind or my searching will add here !!.

as a disclaimer,
I must add that I am a retired JaFA, [ now resident in the BOP ].. and apart from being in Dunedin in 1984 for the Road Races, have never been further South than Ohakea.
In fact have only attended Pukekohe [ so many times 1964 - 2007 ], Baypark [ 3 -4 times ] Ohakea once - including the practice day at Manfeild , Taupo once, although have driven around it [ unofficially back in the 1980's ] and Hampton Downs.
Australia is very sparse for my 8 years there, Sydney [Homebush ] once, Lakeside about 6 or 7 times.

Still not really helping answer Ray's questions but getting it on the Forum

[Spgeti]

Ninety Mile Beach...

[khyndart in CA]

Both of Ray's last two tracks have sprint events.
One takes place in June and the other in August.

Ken...I think I am correct !

[Ray Bell]

To my knowledge, Roger, King Edward Park hillclimb still operates...

The first weekend in September, as I recall, it was only ever once a year to my knowledge and it's a part of the Mattara Festival.

Not that I'd expect hillclimbs and drag strips, even speedways, to be part of this discussion.

Ken, which ones have sprints once a year? Tomago? Ballarat Airfield? The latter I'd say is quite possible, but I've never heard of Tomago still being used. Leyburn, the town, has sprints once a year too. These were commenced to draw attention to the 50th anniversary of the Australian Grand Prix being held on the airfield there and kind of kept going for the next 20+ years.

[Allan]

Roger you left out the original Mt Maunganui circuit.

[Ray Bell]

Is Levin there?

[Oldfart]

Matamata missed off the street circuits too. Ahuriri (Napier) Paritutu (New Plymouth) Nelson Beach,

[Allan]

Waihi Beach was used but that was in the 20s and 30s as best I can work out.

[928]

port road,
gracefield
lower hutt
1/8 mile drags
been in use for more than 45 years

[Oldfart]

Waiheke Island for the TT, Mangere Mountain, Hemmings Speedway, Forest Lake (Hamilton)shall we add in Western Springs?

[Roger Dowding]

Waiheke Island for the TT, Mangere Mountain, Hemmings Speedway, Forest Lake (Hamilton)shall we add in Western Springs?

the Springs Yes and many more - if we get into Hillclimbs there are probably 100's ..
Remember [ very vaguely ]- the TT on Waiheke- part of the track is a current road and another part a farm track at Onetangi.
Think i was told about it rather than attend although been going to Waiheke since 1947 and was there this February 2019.

[Ray Bell]

Time for another pic from our Yankee circuit... is anyone going to get it?

https://i.postimg.cc/mrM7NcDX/0319fr2014735-Lake-Street.jpg

[Roger Dowding]

Time for another pic from our Yankee circuit... is anyone going to get it?

https://i.postimg.cc/mrM7NcDX/0319fr2014735-Lake-Street.jpg

The Original Elkhart Lake course - that developed into Road America ??

" the Chicago Region SCCA and the Village of Elkhart Lake organized the first road race at Elkhart Lake.

The 1950 circuit start-finish line was on County Road P. Competitors went north to County Road J, then South into the Village of Elkhart Lake, and West on what is now County JP (then called County Highway X), and reconnected with County Road P for a total distance of 3.3 miles (5.3 km). "

61188

[khyndart in CA]

Well done Roger, you're the man !
I just hope if you get to visit this area and go to the "Lake Street Cafe" that you have a better experience than this customer had there !

" I wish I had read the recent reviews. Anyone who has been here in the past would come here again - Big mistake. Where do I start? The service was horrible. The server or the kitchen messed up our order. Okay, that happens. But the server lied about checking and more than an hour later I had to check on our food. When I asked our server about it she was rude and finally checked. They had lost our order. If she had checked 30 minutes before, we may have received our dinner before the 90 minutes we had to wait! Our daughter was starving. They promote their wine list, but have very few options by the glass. The food was good, but not amazing. It was so loud we couldn't hear each other. We just wanted to leave as soon as possible. We will never go back. Please choose another restaurant! "

When I show up we can just go down to the wharf area and eat some good ol' Omokoroa fish n chips..eh ?

KJH

[Roger Dowding]

Well done Roger, you're the man !
I just hope if you get to visit this area and go to the "Lake Street Cafe" that you have a better experience than this customer had there !

" I wish I had read the recent reviews. Anyone who has been here in the past would come here again - Big mistake. Where do I start? The service was horrible. The server or the kitchen messed up our order. Okay, that happens. But the server lied about checking and more than an hour later I had to check on our food. When I asked our server about it she was rude and finally checked. They had lost our order. If she had checked 30 minutes before, we may have received our dinner before the 90 minutes we had to wait! Our daughter was starving. They promote their wine list, but have very few options by the glass. The food was good, but not amazing. It was so loud we couldn't hear each other. We just wanted to leave as soon as possible. We will never go back. Please choose another restaurant! "

When I show up we can just go down to the wharf area and eat some good ol' Omokoroa fish n chips..eh ?

KJH

When I show up we can just go down to the wharf area and eat some good ol' Omokoroa fish n chips..eh ?
" Yuss the Fush and Chups " are great at " Beached on Blue " Cafe, right on the Bay by the Ferry ramp Beer and a Glass of Wine is do-able too !! - and also the Takeaway tucked away up in Hamurana St, does good ones too !!

The word Lake Street made me think so I first Googled Map Elkhart Lake and there is Lake St North and Lake St South.. then thought of the circuit known as Road America - should have been quicker as once had a T shirt from the USA / England Healey Challenge of 1990 and one of the Circuits was ' Road America '..

[Ray Bell]

Funnily enough, Google Earth's rendition of 'Lake Street' and 'S Lake Street' are the other side of the lake from here!

Here's the map of the circuit, the red dots are at each turning point (not each turn, but where the circuit goes to a different road or street) and the yellow dots are for the shorter circuit, which used just the Northern end.

https://i.postimg.cc/k4M11rHt/0319fr-GEElkhart-Lake.jpg

My photos are:

https://i.postimg.cc/dVLzr0FM/0319fr2014735-V1a.jpg
Emerging from the section alongside the lake.

https://i.postimg.cc/8kbQV34Y/0319fr2014735-V1b.jpg
The long South to North straight before the long sweeping right hander

https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9BdkQ6/0319fr2014735-V1c.jpg
You can barely see these bends on the map, a short distance after the top corner at a point where long driveways go off to the left and the right of the road.

https://i.postimg.cc/dttMQBSV/0319fr2014735-V1d.jpg
This is right in town where there's a red dot, with the next red dot at the point at the bottom of the hill here, where the road ends and it becomes a broad footpath today.

https://i.postimg.cc/sgqbcRfM/0319fr2014735-V2a.jpg
The first bend on the short circuit diversion.

[khyndart in CA]

I took my camera in to take some photos of some places near where I work before they disappear to development here in Goleta, CA.
The first is the corner at the end of the front straight of what was the Santa Barbara Airport race course which held races there from 1949 to 1968.
61193
The corner as it looks today..(Ken H photo )

61194
The same corner in 1949 as English driver, Philip Payne drives through in his class winning Baldwin Special.

61198
A 1949 poster of the first SB race meet.

61200
The show must go on ! The drivers hoped that the pilots picked the correct runway on race day !
(Moss Motors is just off to left about a mile behind the tail of the plane.)

Ken H.

[khyndart in CA]

Right beside that first corner are two old historic hangars that certainly may not be there for long.
This may not be of interest to many of you but here is some local information plus also read about the "Guppies" at the bottom of this article.

!http://goletahistory.com/two-hangars/

61201

61202
Ken H photos

[Ray Bell]

What a wild-looking device that Baldwin Special appears to be!

I'd suspect it holds a Cadillac V8 between those frame rails. Do we know anything about its makeup, Ken?

As for those hangars, I wouldn't be surprised if they're still there until they actually fall down. America tends to do that a lot.

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
Here is some information on the first Baldwin. (Note the lack of a helmet etc in the above photo !)

"
THE BALDWIN “PAYNE” SPECIAL
This car is probably the most memorable “Sports Rod” of the early days of the sports car movement in America, being a typical example of a late 1940s "California Hot Rod", carried a step beyond what the normal hot rodders were doing at the time. Known in the States as an AV8, i.e. an A Type Ford chassis housing a Ford V8 motor.

In 1947, my late father, Philip Payne, drove across the States in a Brooklands Riley, before working at Roger Barlow’s ‘International Motors’ in Los Angeles. He became interested in the local sports car and hot rod scene and was an early member of the California Sports Car Club, as well as The Glendale Sidewinders (SCTA).

He purchased this Special (91 S 663) in November 1947, from Willis Baldwin of Santa Barbara – the “father” of road racing specials. Baldwin built this, the first of four specials, in 1947, using the frame of a 1932 Ford. My father quickly replaced the Cadillac side-valve, installing a hot 4.4 litre (268.4 c.i.) Mercury Flathead with an Iskenderian track-grind cam, Evans 9:1 heads and triple-carb intake manifold, producing some 175 bhp @ 5,000 rpm. Drive is through a lightened flywheel, 10 in Mercury clutch and three-speed Ford Pilot transmission with a home-built remote shift linkage to a 3.78:1 rear axle. The cowl covers a split-centre Ford radiator whilst the grille consists of curved lengths of welding wire. The bonnet is of 20 guage alloy and the air scoop is from a North American aircraft, whilst an Auburn dash is used. Front cycle-type wings were made from spare wheel-cover bands.

The “Baldwin ‘Payne’ Special” proved very competitive and successful in many Southern Californian events, ranging from circuit racing to hill climbs and dry lake trials. Returning to Portsmouth, England in October 1950, my father continued to sprint the car (FTP 348), gaining successes at Southsea Motor Club events, held at the famous Goodwood circuit, as well as Gosport Automobile Club speed trials. Bill Boddy wrote a very favourable ‘The Editor Encounters A Hot-Rod’ article in “Motorsport” of January 1952, having previously been very sceptical of the performance of Hot Rods – this lead to a very heated exchange of transatlantic letters in that magazine!

Naturally, the car has a very special place in the Payne household (Philip’s widow Vicky, and son Stephen), and is superbly maintained by Alan Collins, the Jaguar specialist, of Maldon, Essex. An overhaul was completed prior to the car’s appearance at The Cartier Style et Luxe at the 2001 Goodwood Festival of Speed, keeping the car as original to its’ illustrious sports rod heritage. "
( Tams Old Car site )

[John McKechnie]

Ken..I love the Santa Barbara Xmas poster from 1936 showing the blue Packard with the rear part of the hood down and it looks like a very long Peacocks tail hanging over the back.

[Roger Dowding]

The show must go on ! The drivers hoped that the pilots picked the correct runway on race day !
(Moss Motors is just off to left about a mile behind the tail of the plane.)

Ken H.

Ken thanks for those photo's had seen pictures at Santa Barbara - did Jerry Melton take photos there ?? - I will have a look ..

[khyndart in CA]

Thanks for pointing that out John.
That is a small Christmas tree in the Packard.
61210




Ken

[khyndart in CA]

Roger,
They were just some photos from a local Independent newspaper article. I don't think Jerry Melton took any photos in this area.
Ken.

[Ray Bell]

Do you mind if I post that pic of the Baldwin Special on TNF, Ken?

I'm keen to know what it's made of.

[John McKechnie]

Xmas tree ..Xmas card...didnt think of a tree. Pet peacock comes to mind.
Who would think an upmarket car like a Lanaulet Packard would have a tree inside- and look at the special fold down rear section to accommodate the tree.Servants usually collect these things.
Jeremy Clarkson would probably fit a cow there in todays world.

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
You must have missed my post # 215 that I did for you.
I got the photo after reading this article.
61214


Ken

[khyndart in CA]

I took my photo at Turn 4 by the North arrow.
61215

This March 7 2019 article has raised a lot of renewed interest in the racing around here.."back in the day"

61216

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by khyndart in CA
Ray,

You must have missed my post # 215 that I did for you.....

Indeed I did... I don't know how I did that!

Thanks very much for that. I would still like to address the issue to TNF because someone there will have the 1952 Motor Sport write-up and it might say something about the suspension.

It appears to have '39-'47 Ford brakes, probably the axle too.

I don't know where the 'mix of Anglo and American parts' came from as the only Pommie component seems to be the Pilot gearbox, which would surely have simply been the same as a US Ford box.

You might be able to tell, cars of this ilk are close to my heart, though I'm never so happy with ones with Ford V8s!

[Roger Dowding]

Re ; " THE BALDWIN “PAYNE” SPECIAL "
Ken H, didn't Baldwin also build a car called the " Baldwin Mercury Special " .. running a Mercury V8 - sidevalve version of the Ford V8 - think the Mercury had an extra head stud or two ??

The photo on the programme you posted indicates it was Baldwin's first Special..

Have just been going through my collection of books and magazines and have come across a Magazine called
" Vintage Racer " it is the Number 8 issue Autumn 1981 and cost US Four Dollars, I got it in 1982 in West Coast USA.
Publisher is Steven J Earle - didn't he go on to manage a Race Track or two ??.
The magazine has the entry list for Monterey Historics August 1981, the year before I went.
Have the Full programme and entry list book for 1982

No mention of a Baldwin in either Book..

For those interested " Beach Hop 2019 Whangamata " is on now 27 - 31 March - there have been lots of cars on State Highway 2 travelling from Tauranga that I saw yesterday ..
Have to go Waikato way on Monday - Pirongia and Te Awamutu, so i guess quite a few will be heading home..

One of the Vehicle's is a recreation of an American Ford School Bus - has modern mechanicals in a 1948 Ford Chasiss /body .. and looks like this .. One of the guys involved with the Bus is my Tyre Guy in Omokoroa Steve Abbott, whose Father Russ got me into " that TR4A " - " what a small world we live in " !!

61217

Had seen the bus outside the Tyre shop many moths ago and was there earlier this week being readied for the trip.

[Ray Bell]

Ford introduced the 24-stud heads in 1938 across the board, prior to that they were 21-stud. The Mercury engine had a larger capacity than the Ford for a while, but later Fords were the same size.

[Roger Dowding]

Ford introduced the 24-stud heads in 1938 across the board, prior to that they were 21-stud. The Mercury engine had a larger capacity than the Ford for a while, but later Fords were the same size.

as mentioned Beach Hop is on this weekend and a local family [ Katikati ] are taking two Fords a Model and a very rare in NZ 1941 Ford V8 Super Deluxe .. the car has been fitted with 1952 Mercury Flathead .. the article in the localpaper is confusing as it states
" The V8 has a 52 Mercury flathead motor - 1941 was the last year Ford flathead motors were built, he said "
He being Eric the owner ..

I thought that Ford built the flathead up until the introduction of the " 272 " Y Block in about 1953 or 54 .. Ray will Know.

This is what I found on Wikipaedia

" Also called Ford L-head V8
Production 1932–1953 for the U.S. consumer car-and-truck market
1932-1954 Ford the Canadian consumer car-and-truck market

(1973 in Germany for trucks and 1961 for Simca versions, but later with a head akin to the Ardun OHV conversion) "

and from a Ford site ..
" The Ford Flathead is a valve-in-block engine and the valves open adjacent to the combustion chamber, rather than from the top, as in later engines. The four different V-8 flathead displacement sizes between 1932 and 1953 are 136, 221, 239 and 337 cubic inches. "

Remember the Simca version used in a car called the Vedette - a grown up Aronde, and of course we had in NZ the Ford V8 Pilot from Ford UK,engine by Ford USA and Canada.

61230

61233

A wet Saturday morning in Omokoroa, Fine in Te Poi on the other side of the Kaimai Ranges..

Time for a Coffee it's 10;45 NZDST ..

61231

Then the day will be like this

61232

[Ray Bell]

I don't think the Simca versions (made even later than '61, I'm sure, and by Chrysler as they owned Simca) had the Ardun heads...

They were used on the ones Chrysler built in South America for the continuation of the Vedette, the Esplanada.

These were smaller engines, only 2.3 - 2.5-litres, as were some built in Britain and even a few in America in the late thirties (the 'V8-60). And yes, Fords continued with the flathead V8 until the Y-block came in in the mid-fifties.

Though there was also an inline six flathead in some US production and also sold in Europe.

Ken, your PMs are full, my e.mail is raybell@racingphoenix.com

[Milan Fistonic]

Waihi Beach was used but that was in the 20s and 30s as best I can work out.

It was certainly used in 1926.

61374

[John McKechnie]

Having worked on so many vintage cars over the years, I get a real buzz out of seeing that they were raced in the day , instead of the sedate cars seen at car shows.
I know where there are 3 Chandler Tourers...wonder if one of them was this winner ?
And as Chrysler had just been formed from Maxwell in 1925, Curletts car must have been an early delivery

[Roger Dowding]

Having worked on so many vintage cars over the years, I get a real buzz out of seeing that they were raced in the day , instead of the sedate cars seen at car shows.
I know where there are 3 Chandler Tourers...wonder if one of them was this winner ?
And as Chrysler had just been formed from Maxwell in 1925, Curletts car must have been an early delivery

John McK .. like your comment !!

" I get a real buzz out of seeing that they were raced in the day , instead of the sedate cars seen at car shows. "

The Chandler, I know little about; Must do some work on that. ** a bit below !
A J Roycroft and the Bugatti ..more is known, as he had several a Type 13 a 22, a 38 ..
the 13 was a Racer, which he got from Australia - had it at Muriwai in 1927 and 1929 for the Beach Races ..
the 38 was a tourer
and the type 22 seems to be a modified tourer, not a racer !!
.
According to the Scott Thompson book " Up to Speed " Daisy Roycroft had been in a Bugatti -
" before the ladies race at Waihi " .. was that 1926 - unsure..
AJ certainly had a Bugatti at the " Light Car Cup " in 1926 at Muriwai. which was probably the type 13 ..in 1927 it had been fitted with a long tail the car originally as mentioned was from Australia owned by Hope Bartlett, chassis # 2109.
In 1929 at Muriwai there were three Bugatti's on the front row - could have been the entire field of six cars ?

**
A Chandler Six Tourer. The advert says they sell a 4 passenger Roadster too !!

61375

[John McKechnie]

I also get the same feeling looking at the very early Daytona Beach racing...thats racing on the beach itself- with the 1930s Coupes and sedans leapfrogging over the sand.
First motorbike race there in 1948-"155 motorcycles started, only 45 finished
Purebred racers...nope, entertainment value....maximum.

[Ray Bell]

https://i.postimg.cc/PxYvLd2c/0419chandler.jpg

[Roger Dowding]

Just reading, as in re-reading that George Smith - of " Gee Cee Ess " fame racing in the 1950's, ran a Chandler in Beach Racing in the 1920's .. A car name that has been " Lost in Antiquity " - as they say. No taken over by Hupp !

This is from Wikipaedia, so is a bit error - prone !!.
" It was incorporated in 1913, with Frederick C. Chandler as President, headquartered and with its factory in Cleveland, Ohio. Chandler was a former designer for the Lozier Motor Company, a top end luxury automobile manufacturer. Chandler and several other Lozier executives left the company to form his company.

Chandler concentrated on producing a good quality motor-car within the price range of middle class Americans. Chandlers were well received in the marketplace.

Production[edit]
In 1920, Chandler had a line of six cars, ranging from $1995 to $3595.[citation needed] This grew to 10 by 1922, ranging from $1495 to $2375.[citation needed] Like many other medium-price carmakers, in the middle 1920s Chandler introduced a lower-priced "companion car" called the Cleveland. In 1924, they introduced the "Traffic Transmission," a constant-mesh gearbox that reduced the need for extra clutching when downshifting. This was several years before General Motors offered the "Synchro-Mesh" transmission, which allowed the driver to shift into first gear while moving forward at low speeds.

Chandler's peak year was 1927, when they sold 20,000 cars. Hopes for continued growth of the market led to over expansion by the company the following year, which finished 1928 over half a million dollars in debt.

In 1929, Chandler Motor Company was purchased by its expanding competitor Hupp Motor Car Company for its factory and manufacturing facilities, and the brand was discontinued.

Chandler, like most cars built before all-steel bodies became the industry standard in the mid-1930s, used bodies built with a metal skin around a wooden frame (an "armored wood" frame).[1] Due to the use of fabric roofs, after a few decades the wood tended to rot; because of this Chandlers have survived in smaller numbers than some other popular automobiles of the era that used all-steel bodies " .

Rikko, Ken H, Ray Bell, John Mck and others - getting off the topic quite a lot .. oops.

Cheers,
Roger D ..
back to Austin Healey's I guess ..

[John McKechnie]

Thanks Roger...good research and I enjoyed the read.

[Ray Bell]

That Chandler I posted was really a nice car with some luxury features inside...

But no doubt it never saw a race track. The closest ones to it would have been Thurgoona-Wirlinga and Pound Hill I guess.

While I have been around as much of the former as you can do these days, I've never seen Pound Hill. Which is a bit of a shame because my uncle helped build it.

If, however, you include things like Speedways, it wasn't too far from Wahgunya, Leeton, Echuca and several more. As a stablemate it had a 1931 Plymouth roadster to keep it company.

[John McKechnie]

1914 movie- Mabel at the Wheel- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XN8-stCgmo
Mabel drives a Bentley V8
Which race track/tracks is this ?
Cmon Ken, its your backyard
Great collection of period racer. all rhd. and Mabel looks like she could get into the Shell Mustang and win Bathurst.

[khyndart in CA]

That is a fun old movie John, looks like the old course at Santa Monica.CA.



Ken.

[khyndart in CA]

A bit more about the racetrack at Santa Monica around 1914.

https://thekeystonegirlblogs.wordpress.com/2017/10/17/keystones-racetrack-santa-monica/

61573



(Ken H )

[Ray Bell]

It has to be West Coast as there's a banner with 'FRESNO' in big letters at the back of the grandstand...

[Roger Dowding]

Old but not actually lost - the streets still exist; has been used in more recent times too !! 1980's
Some of the early versions of the Dunedin City Street Circuits - from the Scott Thomsom book - the back cover.

61581

The front cover of the book ;

61582

[Ray Bell]

Anzac Day is upon us...

If memory serves, that was a traditional race day at the old Penrith Speedway. Now there's an old track now mostly gone for you.

It was adjacent to Penrith railway station (note I didn't say 'train station', nobody did before 1990) and drew huge crowds who came out from Sydney on the electric urban trains.

It was a big speedway, a full mile of clay tri-oval and operated from about 1921 to 1942. The site was then resumed by the government for military purposes.

[khyndart in CA]

Ray Bell,
I took this photo in May 1967.
Can you tell us when it opened and closed and anything about your experiences at this track at ..........

61777


Thanks,
Ken H

[Ray Bell]

Catalina Park...

One mile and 510 yards, as I recall, tight and with a steep-ish climb as well as an almost-nasty crested curve halfway down the main straight.

I attended every meeting there between May, 1963 and when it closed with the exception of the May, 1967 event. Which was seriously fog-affected.

Some really good racing, it was a power circuit because of the three tight corners requiring the oomph to get the car to the next section, allied with that hill. But it required bravery (Bosch Corner) and finesse as well.

Memories: Pete Geoghegan having a rear axle shaft come out in the middle of Bosch, which was very fast, snapping it sideways and he caught it. Wal Donelly (sp?) and Niel Allen changing places in the middle of Bosch. Bob Jane punting Brian Muir's S4 out of his way in Craven A after Muiro repeatedly won the start. Arriving for my first ever race there, it was about event two on the day, and the race was red-flagged. There are pics on this forum of that crash, in which Thomas Rich died.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by khyndart
.....I just hope if you get to visit this area and go to the "Lake Street Cafe" that you have a better experience than this customer had there !

I wish I had read the recent reviews. Anyone who has been here in the past would come here again - Big mistake. Where do I start? The service was horrible. The server or the kitchen messed up our order. Okay, that happens. But the server lied about checking and more than an hour later I had to check on our food. When I asked our server about it she was rude and finally checked. They had lost our order. If she had checked 30 minutes before, we may have received our dinner before the 90 minutes we had to wait! Our daughter was starving. They promote their wine list, but have very few options by the glass. The food was good, but not amazing. It was so loud we couldn't hear each other. We just wanted to leave as soon as possible. We will never go back. Please choose another restaurant!

When I show up we can just go down to the wharf area and eat some good ol' Omokoroa fish n chips..eh ?

Remind me to tell you one day about the time I got chucked out of the Restaurant Hunidares...

Almost as dramatic as the time I got chucked out of the USA.

[Ray Bell]

I am thinking seriously of taking a drive down to Adelaide and the Barossa Valley during my working sojourn to Central Australia in the next month or two...

I'll be working around Peterborough and Port Augusta for a week or two, so it's not too far to places like Nuriootpa and Lobethal, so I might introduce my van to them.

It has to get used to driving around old racing circuits. Thus far it's been driven around the original Elkhart Lake circuits and Watkins Glen's 1948-53 circuit as well as Savannah.

I don't intend setting any lap records, however...

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
I look forward to the photos, ,especially of the van that has driven around North America and now Australia.
You must be very fond of that vehicle ?
Is it LHD or RHD or is it McLaren F 1 type with a center seat ?

Ken.

[Roger Dowding]

Ray,
I look forward to the photos, ,especially of the van that has driven around North America and now Australia.
You must be very fond of that vehicle ?
Is it LHD or RHD or is it McLaren F 1 type with a center seat ?

Ken.

Ray Bell, I know you have been to Lakeside, Kurwongbah, QLD many times - has the van been around there too ??.
Need to see a photo of it ..

Believe some of these photos are yours !! - your comment from September 2015

" I wonder where they got my pictures?

Maybe they thought someone else took them? "

61844

[khyndart in CA]

Sorry Ray,
I'm having trouble getting my ol' van back on the road again. I was hoping to join up with you for
the"Tour de Oz" and perhaps make it over to "Van Demon's Land" and check out Longford etc..
I hate to let you down mate.

61862


(Ken H)

[John McKechnie]

Centre seat, can only be a Morris J1 Breadvan...do you have them Stateside, hippie love them