Doyle/Dickie Fastback Anglia Corvette

[fastback55]

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[fastback55]

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[fastback55]

Some pictures of the vehicle starting at the top pre roof chop and with Neil Doyle, photo after the roll and why the roof was chopped, photo as Alec Dickie bought it, various photos with Alec and a picture with his father Ken. Photo of how we bought it from Governors Bay and yes there was another orange one there and it looked a lot like the road car sitting on the trailer in Angria's thread. Neil Doyle put me on to the vehicle as his brother in law knew it's location. Other photos are as painted now. It has a new roll cage also as the original was in bad repair and didn't have floor plates. I have more photos. Would love to find the original wheels, I know Alec and Ken put some mechanical parts into the victor but unsure whether that included the wheels. Anyone able to supply photos or information would be of great assistance. Thanks

[105angria]

Hey fastback ,are those last couple of photos as it is now ?

[fastback55]

It's a bit further along than those photos now. I've rebuilt the steering and suspension and am fitting the removable firewall and transmission cover.

[105angria]

wow can we have some more pics please, this is one of THE iconic cars of my youth, to see its restoration to such an obvious high standard is a joy,all info gratefully accepted , did you get the car off the gentleman that had it in the classic car mag and how much of the car did you get ,love to see some pics of the firewall, suspension anything.

[AMCO72]

It never ceases to amaze me how these once legends of NZ motoracing end up being parked up and forgotten about......the Sidchrome Imp, and one very close to my heart, the Amco Mini are a couple of many others that used to thrill crowds all those years ago, being dumped in some paddock, or haybarn if they are lucky, robbed and left to rot. Fastback55, that is one real mean looking critter, always was, and I hope will soon be again. As Howard Wood has said, we in NZ built some bloody amazing race cars way back then, able to take on the much more fancied 'exotic' stuff from overseas. Of course nowadays everything is so politically correct and sanitised, and I believe that is why there is such interest in 'classic' racing in all it's guises. I'm sure with the encouragement you will undoubtably get on this forum you will be spurred on to an early completion date. There you go Greg.....get arse into gear with that Morrari and lets see you both ripping up the tarmac.

[Steve Holmes]

This is a really cool thread. I wish those pics were a little bigger, I'd love to see more detail. How long have you owned the car? Great to see it finally getting the restoration it deserves.

[fastback55]

Trying to successfully resize

[fastback55]

Thanks for remarks everybody, as you can see I'm having trouble resizing photos. I love this car and always have from my days at school looking at motoring magazines. One of my workmates and I were discussing the Dunedin Street racing we had seen on TV and we were looking through some old NZ motoring mags and talking about cars we liked and would like to see racing again. There was a picture of Alec Dickie racing the fastback, I said I "would like that car if I had a choice". I knew that it had been stripped and some of the mechanical bits put into Alec's Victor as OSCA rules required a standard body shape which the fastback did not fulfill. The next day I went to our post office and got all the South Island Electoral Roles and managed to find 5 Alec Dickies and 4 Neil Doyles. I figured out by age who the most likely prospects were and sent letters away. I found out from one Alec Dickie reply, that the Alec I was after was killed in a car accident. The correct Neil Doyle however answered my letter and told me his brother in law knew where the car was in Governors Bay and supplied a phone number. I rang the gentleman (surname Vincent I think) and got a friend in Christchurch to go have a look. He got back to me saying that the car looked great and to buy it. I paid the $1500.00 for it sight unseen. The photo above shows the cars condition when we turned up to pick it up, it was in a bad state but it was still what I was after but I wish I had paid less for it as $1500.00 was a lot of money for me in 1989 with a young family and a large mortgage. We towed it back by A frame with our Chevette Station wagon with tuned 2lt motor after repacking all the wheel bearings and trying to make everything inside safe. It took two days to get it back home to Whakatane so quite a journey considering at 60 mph it got bad speed wobbles and any tight corners would cause it to skitter as it has bad steering lock. So it was back home after only 4 weeks since the letters went out. But from there the speed slows down as it has taken a long time as you're all thinking. We had a 7 day a week business for 12 years while I also worked a 5 day a week job. I also completed an adult apprenticeship as a fitter and turner in that time and did considerable amounts of work to the fastback in that time, purchasing a motor and gearbox and other items. I also lost the sight in my eye while lifting a tandem trailer I was building by myself (burst blood vessel to optic nerve) so that messed things up a bit. I have also pursued my first love of hunting, learning to shoot left handed and have had many trips with my son to Stewart Island, Fiordland and Southern Alps chasing all sorts. We have also gone looking for moose twice in Dusky Sound. We also do a stoat trap route for the local Kiwi Trust which is very worthwhile but consumes a fair bit of time. Still a very exciting life but one in which I need to focus on the fastback. A visit to Hampton Downs revived interest and the topics in The Roaring Season have really bought back memories. I quite agree with Amco72 the racing happening at the moment is complete crap, all those BMWs are no doubt great fun but no spectacle to me and Commodores and Falcons all look the same. I like Central Muscle Cars and different things like Bonney's monaro and Hansens TVR. The classic scene is great and good to see it progressing but even that has hassles as Alan Dick mentions in the latest Classic Driver regarding the Custaxie not racing, a shame as yes it's a replica but doesn't it look good and aren't people interested, there's got to be a place for it. I'll post more pictures soon.

[bob homewood]

Thanks for sharing that with us ,and I am sorry to hear about the personal set backs along the way ,but it looks like at least another bit of our history is in good hands,thanks again

[kiwi285]

Fantastic to know that this iconic car is safe and being rebuilt. A big thanks for taking on the task and sticking with it for the benefit of all us old motorsport followers. Won't that be a sight to look forward to.

[Steve Holmes]

Great story! Thanks for sharing. Just out of interest, did Doyle race the car with the chopped roof, or did this come later when Dickie owned it? I know it wasn't chopped during the final Allcomer season. But I think Doyle continued to race it beyond Allcomers didn't he? I hadn't realised Alec Dickie had died.

[Jac Mac]

There is mention earlier in this thread of Doyle having rolled the car which might have hastened the roof chop conversion. This thread has miffed a few people who were looking into building a replica of this car thinking it had gone to the great missing race carpark in heaven!!:)

I think Alec Dickie died ~1979/80 IIRC.

[AMCO72]

You know, we must be stuffed in the head. Getting all excited about some old heap of junk that we have traced. I caught this bug years ago when I first joined the VCC in it's early days...1955....the year of the Lemans tragedy. In those days there was a lot of old stuff lying under hedges and we used head out into the country in search of some treasure that was rumoured to be able to be saved. Even back then, a lot was wellpast it's useby date......wooden framed bodies dont last long in the open. Of course we were not looking for old race cars because most of them were quite new, but an original Model T, or an Essex, or a Hudson, now they were worth getting excited over. I thought I had got over this nonsense, but no, and those on this thread who have read 'Yards & Yarns' will recall my experiences in 'Jagnet' hunting down old Jaguars. So I suppose it needs oddbods like nicktassie, fastback55, and lots of others who love the detective work necessary to hunt these things down. It seems to be all worth it in the end but sometimes I wonder what we have let ourselves in for. So, fastback55, restore the car to how it was and dont be tempted to 'improve or modify' it to 21st century specifications, or you will have COD problems for sure. My own personal opinion is SO WHAT. Its called continuous development and would have undoubtably gone down that path if it had continued to race. And from one cogger to another......apply for your racing licence soon. With your medical history, wouldn't like you to go to all this trouble and then be told you can't compete!! See my piece in Oldfarts 'getting even older'.

[AMCO72]

Talking about continuous development. In fact the Anglia is continuing to race, it's just that there has been a bit of a gap since it was last on the track!! Why should these guys be stuck in a time warp using old technology? Improvements to brakes is sensible, and engine knowledge has come a long way from the '70's. Anyway, everybody's engines are better these days, so why penalize these old war-horses. I dont know what the issues with the Custaxie are regarding it's COD compliance, but frankly Francevic can race all he likes as far as I am concerned......he is not the fastest out there, he's not running away at the front of the field making everyone else look silly, though he used to in the old days. I daresay the engine that ends up in the Fastback will be considerably better both in HP and reliability to what it was......good job. These old girls were built by guys who thought outside the square, and did anything and everything, and yes, pushed boundaries, to achieve their goal.......win races. We are continually being reminded that 'the cars are the stars' in this wonderful world of classic racing, so who gives a stuff what developments have been done to get a machine up and running again, as there is NO incentive to win. IS THERE???? I just shuddered when I saw those images of the ex Hoare Ferrari lying in some dark, dusty old museum in the Netherlands, unused and unloved. For goodness sake get these things out and doing what they were designed to do. Read Mr Justice Otton's summing up on the Old No1 Bentley court case, in another thread on this forum.....that says it all as far as classic racing goes.

[fastback55]

Larger photos

[fastback55]

Larger photos most already above. Good shot of firewall for Angria.

[fastback55]

Photo of the victor now owned by Tony Mann

[fastback55]

In answer to your question of did Neil Doyle race the car with the roof chop the answer is yes Steve. As far as I know Alec only raced it when painted Blue and white. Most of the photos in green I got from Neil Doyle apart from the one without engine, that was when Alec had just bought it. Neil has been a big help and Ken Dickie (Alec's father and his wife were great as they had a comprehensive photo album that they made for Alec's children. Ken has written me two letters with such accuracy that he could tell you that a part was held together by a 3/8th bolt and a drawing of the dry sump tank (I have the original thanks to Don Elvy) and such detail on all sorts of detail including the steering that I will supply photos of (mini rack). I also have a photo of it passing the Ferrari 250LM (probably the other way round ha ha)

[fastback55]

More photos

[Steve Holmes]

Great stuff Ian, awesome work resizing those pics. This is really magic stuff! This is a really good thread.

[fastback55]

Thanks Steve, it took a mate at work to point me in the right direction regarding cropping. I think that might be Fullers Escort in the 5th photo down. I have seen in other threads you have an interest in this car.

[bry3500]

Awesome Fastback!!!...Great to see this car again....can't wait to see it running . This was always my favourite of the Breadvans.I have great memories of watching and listening to this winding up down the back straight at Wigram..yeee haarr !!!

[105angria]

wow ,fantastic favourite thread, hows the strut towers which appear to go when the body gets moderfied, the gearbox with the overdrive? ,is this shell seam welded ,with all that firewall gone an Anglia could get a wee bit flexable, im sure he must be passing the Ferrari,thanks Fastback great stuff

[fastback55]

The strut towers are still high, you can see little "bubble" covers in the bonnet in the picture two above with the escort behind. I'll put a picture on tonight that shows the pipe strut brace that goes back to the firwewall, it's not very clear but the brace is quite substantial being made of 3/4 steam pipe. The body work is braced in places and has aditional welding although not seam welded entirely. The strut top mounts appear to be mk2 zephyr with shorter mk3 struts, I have renewed the chrome shafts and had the strut oil analysed and put the same type oil back in when they were rebuilt. I'll do some photos of the steering, I'm a bit concerned about using it as it's all welded and quite intricate.

[105angria]

Hi Fastback with that v8 sitting back partway into cabin ,how do you get your feet in there?My Anglia has a setback motor with offset clutch pedal and its tight

[fastback55]

I'm wondering the same thing, I only have size 9's but there's room for only size 3's ha ha. The original roll cage was merely brazed to the side of the inner wall down from the A pillar, now there is a floor plate and a new roll cage tube to take up the place where my feet should be. It'll take a bit of thought to get around it.
Auto trans of course ha ha.

[105angria]

My car has a side rail that runs from half way up the main hoop,past the door, and bolt through plate to the top of the wheelwell ill send you a pic works as side impact and rollbar brace

[fastback55]

photo of A frame strut brace. Had to lay it on it's side to get the size. Not the best photo but if you look hard you can just see it.

[fastback55]

Steering and crossmember

[fastback55]

The two angle iron pieces on the cross member were to stop forward movement of the engine under braking. I sent the picture to Ken Dickie and he wrote on back saying so.

[fastback55]

More photos

[105angria]

keep it coming please Fastback ,so what is the gearbox and does it run an overdrive,the crossmember with the pegs is interesting.is the motor solid mounted, or does it have rubber mounts, im wondering if the square plates with holes are engine mounts or does the steering rack run through there,sorry about all the question but im sure you are amazed at the enginering,have you converted the mastercylinder to dual circuit,to comply with COD here in Aus i was required to keep my Anglia as it was ,i could change the seat ,replace the harness ,but had to leave the rollcage as constucted,

[fastback55]

I will never be able to put this car back to exactly as it was as a lot of the running gear went into the Victor Alec raced. I have made up an adjustable pedal box, Ken told me what master cylinders it had. The cross member has steering rack mountings that you are asking about. The rack is from a mini. The motor was rubber mounted hence the angle iron brackets. I can imagine all sorts of problems when this car is ready to go as there's all sorts of tossers around but there's got to be a place for it somewhere. I will certainly do my best to keep it accurate. These cars would have changed from race meeting to race meeting over the years they raced as indeed it did from Neil Doyles ownership to Alec Dickies. It's a shame the Custaxie is having trouble racing as there is such a lot of interest in it. I have a muncie m22 with Hurst shifter, I think the photo shows a separate reverse lever (I might be wrong).

[AMCO72]

Does anyone out there actually KNOW that there is a problem with the Custaxie, or is it just 'pit talk'. The last time I saw it racing was at the 'Evolution Motorsport Classic Speed Fest' at Teretonga on the 20th of February this year. We were down there with the Amco Mini and Angus had the pre65 Morris. He had done a deal with Robbie at Ruapuna that they would swap cars at Teretonga. In the event Robbie did not drive the Morris but Angus drove the Custaxie. I think Robbie wanted Angus's imput as to how the handling might be 'improved', and to this end the car seemed to be in a thousand bits after each race getting 'improved'. I'm not aware of any events since that meeting that the Custaxie would run in, but there may have been. Also at that meeting there was a very nice Ford Escort RS that was 'reputed' to have 300hp under the bonnet, and that it was also having problems with COD compliance. But again this could have been pit talk. I raced around with this guy throughout the weekend, and if that car had 300hp then I'm 'a monkeys uncle', as my old bus has only 106hp at the wheels. So fastback55, I'm sure you will put the car back to 'as near as possible' to how it was, and as you say, ALL race cars change from one year to the next so who's to say what is correct.

[David McKinney]

A couple of mine (so you'll have to excuse the quality:) )

Ruapuna March 1966 (Jim Mullins following)

and Wigram January 1969

[Jac Mac]

IF the motor in the Victor was the same one from the Anglia it got cooked shortly after Gary Jenkins bought the Victor IIRC, I can check with Gary on that if you wish.... it was dry sumped in the manner that Alec did several other cars..used the OE pump as the pressure stage via a tube thru side of pan to bottom of tank & a belt driven scavenge pump-two stage IIRC

[bry3500]

David..the photos are great..love seeing this stuff unearthed,
The top pic shows my fav configuration of this car, The headlight covers , organ pipe stack, rudimentary wheel flares etc

[RogerH]

Does anyone out there actually KNOW that there is a problem with the Custaxie, or is it just 'pit talk'. The last time I saw it racing was at the 'Evolution Motorsport Classic Speed Fest' at Teretonga on the 20th of February this year. We were down there with the Amco Mini and Angus had the pre65 Morris. He had done a deal with Robbie at Ruapuna that they would swap cars at Teretonga. In the event Robbie did not drive the Morris but Angus drove the Custaxie. I think Robbie wanted Angus's imput as to how the handling might be 'improved', and to this end the car seemed to be in a thousand bits after each race getting 'improved'. I'm not aware of any events since that meeting that the Custaxie would run in, but there may have been. Also at that meeting there was a very nice Ford Escort RS that was 'reputed' to have 300hp under the bonnet, and that it was also having problems with COD compliance. But again this could have been pit talk. I raced around with this guy throughout the weekend, and if that car had 300hp then I'm 'a monkeys uncle', as my old bus has only 106hp at the wheels. So fastback55, I'm sure you will put the car back to 'as near as possible' to how it was, and as you say, ALL race cars change from one year to the next so who's to say what is correct.

My understanding with the "Custaxie" is that it is not a restoration of an existing period race car (like the Anglia in this thread) but an attempt to reconstruct a car that no longer exists.

If it wants to run at MSNZ events with a COD it does so under Schedule CR and it has two choices - either as a "Replica" or as a "Retrospective Special". If wants to be called the Custaxie then it should be under the "Replica" regulations which state " ... means a car built with the intention of replicating a vehicle that existed in any one of the period classifications. The car must comply with the applicable articles of Schedule K as if it was an original vehicle". Essentially this means that a car is constructed today to replicate an actual period vehicle in the configuration that it ran in period.

From what I understand the "Custaxie" has not been built to replicate what it was in period and changes and "improvements" have been made so it is a different animal from what the real Custaxie was in period.

The option that is left for it is for it to be a "Retrospective Special" which is defined as " .... means a car built for racing events which by its design, silhouette and manufacture has created a vehicle that could have been first manufactured in a previous era ...". However, this doesn't allow the introduction of non-period bits, for example, 6 pot callipers (I'm not saying the "Custaxie" has these). Additionally, it couldn't be called the Custaxie because it doesn't replicate what the Custaxie was.

There are people spending the time replicating period race cars, warts and all and if the car doesn't exit then it can be called what it was called in period. However, if the car does exist (even in bits) then someone can't come along and replicate it and give it the identity of the period car. I bet fastback55 would not be too impressed if someone built up an Anglia from scratch and put "55" on it and called it the Doyle/Dickie Anglia.

It probably all seems a bit bureaucratic but the Custaxie was a great car and it would have been just as easy to build it essentially as it was rather than try and "improve" it into something it never was.

[AMCO72]

But surely Roger, this is the whole point....the OLD Custaxie doesn't exist, presumably, so the new one can be called what it was called in period, and who better to do a retro version of the car than the guy who built it originally!!! Apparently there were people considering building a retro version of the Anglia, however that will now all stop as the real car, or parts thereof, have now come to light. Anyway I think it is all rather petty, and I still want to know exactly WHAT is different on the NEW Custaxie because it LOOKS like the old car. I take you back to my earlier comments on 'continuous development'. If the car HAD kept racing it would have undoubtably been IMPROVED and finished up something like it is now. I have to wonder whether some small-minded steerer [stirer] has protested at this CUSTAXIE-ish version. Also I can't see the point of building problems BACK into a car that would have been rectified anyway for the next season. Is Robbie considering UNimproving the Custaxie so it conforms to these rather odd rules, so he can race again, if not, it was a rather expensive exercise for one classic season......a bit like the original.

[AMCO72]

And more....... when the Custaxie first appeared at the Bruce McLaren festival, it received banner headlines in all sorts of publications and was greeted at the track with happiness and joy.....everyone wanted to see it.....EXCEPT for one team....apparently. The owner/driver of a very expensive and exotic Ferrari from the 'Goodwood brigade', had grave misgivings about close racing with the Custaxie and one or two others, fearing these drivers might T-bone their precious car in the enthusiasm of putting on a show for the public. In fact it was a Humber 80 that T-boned the Custaxie, which didn't please Robbie very much!!!!! The poor Humber 80 driver was mortified that he had done such a thing to the STAR of the show. The specification of the new Custaxie would have been known to the organisers and scrutineers, and if anything was amiss should have been dealt with there and then. Of course that would have created a big fuss, especially after all the publicity, and that would never do. We could perhaps call the car.... CUSTAXIE II...as they do in America, and that would get over all the problems.......maybe. The Anglia certainly changed shape and everything else in the course of it's career, even getting a longer wheelbase if I'm not mistaken, so it should now be Fastback Anglia III.

[Jac Mac]

Im with Gerald on this one, Take for example the ex Fahey Capri.. it is now restored back to its original V6 Cologne Capri configuration & quite rightly so, but why couldnt Inky Tulloch build a copy of his V8- Muncie & 9" as per the OSCA car...two totally different animals I know... BTW I have already tried to convince Inky..no luck:).. Like in my own case I could if I wanted build a Ford powered IMP like the one I used to race, but not either of the Cortinas because they still exist.... apparently because 'I' built it ' I' can build a copy if the original is dead and gone... anyone else who tried would have to be classed as a replica. There must be many cars that evolved & transfered from class to class over the years, some of which have been converted back to the 'most valuable' configuration, perhaps more in the pursuit of $$$ than any particular class for racing purposes.

Before we get all wound up with this perhaps we should really have started a new thread on the Topic rather than drift away from the Doyle/Dickie car , Steve if you wish to shift it & title it as something like 'Replicas & Copies 'its fine by me.

[RogerH]

I'm not trying to defend the decision that has (apparently) been made regarding the "Custaxie" - I was just trying to explain what I think has happened based on my interpretation of the MSNZ rule book.

However, I don't agree with the "continuous development" matter. If a car is running in an historic grid for saloons up to, say 1970, then it should be in the configuration it was or could have been in 1970. If it is modified with performance parts that were only available from say 1990 on, then it is really a 1990 period saloon in an old body.

The same thing applies to some of the historic single seaters I race. For example, one runs in a 1959/1960 period format and the rules require that I can only use components that I can prove were legal and available in 1959/60. My sons run period saloon cars - one a 1969 Cortina GT and the other a 1975 BMW 2002 - when we applied for the COD for these cars so they could run under MSNZ T&C regulations I had to prove that all major components were period. The Cortina runs a dry sump and I had to show through a Car & Car Conversions magazine article in 1968 that dry sumps were available through Nerus for Mk2 Cortinas.

In my mind the same should apply to the "Custaxie". If it wants to replicate the real Custaxie and run in the historic meetings in the 1960 -1970 saloon grid then it should be in the appropriate configuration. Otherwise (to take an extreme example) it could look like the Custaxie but have a sequential gearbox, 6 pot callipers, traction control etc etc.

By the way, I don't know what the current "Custaxie" has had done to it to get the officials upset - all I had heard on the "grapevine" was that it had non-period "improvements" that were performance enhancing and I suppose other competitors in the same grid who's cars complied to period got a bit unhappy that it wasn't a level playing field??

[AMCO72]

Yep Jac Mac, and there are more out there. Let us just say, that the NEW Custaxie is the ONLY car in NZ that can CLAIM to be THE Custaxie.

[bob homewood]

Im with Gerald on this one, Take for example the ex Fahey Capri.. it is now restored back to its original V6 Cologne Capri configuration & quite rightly so, but why couldnt Inky Tulloch build a copy of his V8- Muncie & 9" as per the OSCA car...two totally different animals I know... BTW I have already tried to convince Inky..no luck:).. Like in my own case I could if I wanted build a Ford powered IMP like the one I used to race, but not either of the Cortinas because they still exist.... apparently because 'I' built it ' I' can build a copy if the original is dead and gone... anyone else who tried would have to be classed as a replica. There must be many cars that evolved & transfered from class to class over the years, some of which have been converted back to the 'most valuable' configuration, perhaps more in the pursuit of $$$ than any particular class for racing purposes.

Before we get all wound up with this perhaps we should really have started a new thread on the Topic rather than drift away from the Doyle/Dickie car , Steve if you wish to shift it & title it as something like 'Replicas & Copies 'its fine by me.

Steve, I think a new thread would be a good idea,keep the Doyle,Dickie rebuild and its follow up pure ,put everything else about replicas etc on another dedicated thread where we can all rant ,it certainly makes it a lot easier in future for people who search for a topic

[RogerH]

Like in my own case I could if I wanted build a Ford powered IMP like the one I used to race,



I think we are probably saying the same thing. In the case you mention about the Imp Ford, it's fine in my mind if one is built "like the one I used to race" - and I assume it could run in an historic grid for the period that corresponds to the time you used to race it. However, if you built up a car that externally looked like your old Imp Ford but it had a fuel injected Zetec motor, sequential gearbox and six pot callipers it would not be "like the one I used to race" and accordingly, would not fit in a historic saloon car grid for the period that represents the original Imp Ford - I suppose it would be more like a modern Clubman car?

[AMCO72]

So Roger, what we really have to do is find out exactly what is on the car now that was not available in period. I saw the car in a million bits, as I said at Teretonga, and to my untrained eye couldn't see anything 'modern' lurking in there.....no twin turbo-chargers, anti-dive suspension, formula one slicks etc etc. and the car wasnt as fast as the Renault Dauphine driven by Brett Stevens, which in fact just ate it. Which brings me back to a snitch on the grid. The cars are the stars ,so performance enhancing bits to increase it's chances of winning are pointless, but could be sensible safety wise. Robbie is a racer and naturally he wants to be at the pointy end of the grid so a few tweaks here and there are ok.....aren't they. Right, straight from the horses mouth.......Angus drove the car in 4 races at Teretonga and I asked him, Father to Son, as you do, what was it like. He said ....it had no brakes, no handling, ok horse-power, and you would need to be a BRAVE man to drive it at race speeds. I reminded him that he could hardly compare it with his NZ V8 Falcon, but he has driven all sorts of junk over the years so I respected his opinion. In fact the Custaxie was only slightly quicker, lap-time wise, than his old pre65 Morris!!!!!!

[AMCO72]

Yep, ok by me guys. I typed the last post before reading Bobs.

[fastback55]

Phew, just been down to Taradale to see the Steely Dan, Steve Winwood concert, really good, and interesting to see all the comments on the thread when I get back. Great comments from people who know. Interesting what Angus said, I bet the cars were dogs compared with newer cars. Alec claimed around 400hp from the motor Neil probably thought less in the early days, still a lot of hp in a short wheelbase light car, somewhere I have read 15cwt in Dickies day, it's not till you hop in it that you realize how small they are. One autonews magazine that I read from the time said that Alec had the fastest speed on the wigram straight, 127mph which was a few mph over the mustangs and camaros, but with mk3 zephyr brakes the car drifted back in the race as one could well imagine. I would like the car to be close to original but safe and I like the idea of the cars being stars not the egos of the drivers. I know bugger all about the rules and regulations and it's very interesting to me to see the remarks of people I consider legends who have answered this thread, thanks a lot.

[fastback55]

Thanks for the pictures David, they're all a great help.

[AMCO72]

50 and 55........I'm going to have one last go on here then Steve can shift all this 'impure' stuff somewhere else if he and fastback55 want to. I think this comparison with the Custaxie and others is valid on here, as all this comment just adds to the richness of the thread in the end. We are talking about 2 iconic cars of the decade, one running, the other not.....yet. As there were no COD's in those days there is no photographic proof of how a body or suspension looked other than in period race photos. The builder probably didnt have any plans either, it was all in his head.....designed and built as he went along. 'Suck it and See' technology....LAR.....'Looks about Right'. So fastbacks recreation of some parts is going to be how he thinks they should be, based on modern thinking, and without photos, whos to say he is wrong? Gregs Morrari is going to be in the same boat, and I will bet that Morrari II will be better [should I say more professionally built] than the original, if only as far as the quality of the welding is concerned. Why would anyone use blobby old gas welding, not much better than soldering sometimes, if done by amateurs, when a modern MIG will do the job so much better, stronger, and neater. I'm sorry but I cant see this fixation about the finished product looking exactly like the original...WARTS and ALL!! I'm sure the scrutineers will have something to say, and I havent noticed too many WARTS in the restorations I have seen. Beowulf will confirm that the chassis on his historic car was falling to bits....old gas welding, and he has had to get it redone the modern way. For a start, fastback55 will have to put in a MSNZ approved drivers seat and harness, so there you go, you are already starting down that road of improving and non-originality. We had all the original eating and upholstery for the Amco Mini but had to put in new seat and harness. Sensible, yes, compulsory, yes, but not original. In our case the list went on.....brake materials [not old DS 11], brake lines, fuel lines, fuel pump, tires, extinguisher, working lights etc, all none original, but in every case better, and necessary if you want to compete rather than just do demo laps. These old buses like 50 and 55 rely on brute strength and ignorance....literally. In those days everyone thought they knew what they were doing, but very few actually did. There is no substitute for CC's. Chuck on some BIG tyres to hide any handling problems...they were fairly large on 55! With 400 hp available on such a short unsophisticated body/chassis, you would have say that handling would be dodgy at best.....point the bugger down the straight and stand on the throttle!!! As bry5000 said about 55.......listening to it winding up down the back straight at Wigram.......music to the ears.

[RogerH]

I don't want to hijack the Doyle/Dickie thread and I think it is a good idea if these replica postings are moved to a new thread.

However, there are some issues with replicas that potentially could cause issues. With these "one-off" cars like the Custaxie and Doyle/Dickie Anglia, I think there should be no replicas allowed if the original car exists (even unrestored). If you owned the real car you would be a bit miffed if a replica that claimed to be your real car turned up on the same grid. Likewise, there should be only one replica allowed - do we want three replica cars all claiming to be the "Custaxie" turning up on the same grid?

What happens if a replica is built of a period "one-off" car and the original subsequently surfaces? I had a related issue a few years ago when I was racing one of my cars (an original period car) overseas and I found another car in the pits with period photo of my car on it's "skite board" which the owner claimed was a period photo of his car and that it supported his car's supposed period race history.

I agree with Gerald that modern safety improvements should be discretely adopted but I'm not supportive of performance improvements or so-called "reliability" improvements. In a class I'm involved in there has been much anguish internationally on modern "reliability" improvements. The story goes something like this : in period these engines wouldn't run over 8000 rpm but with all these modern bits (steel cranks, exotic rocker gear etc) they can now run to 10000 rpm and the modern bits should be allowed because if they weren't allowed the engine would break at anything over 8000 rpm so the modern bits are required for "reliability". The opposing view is that the regulations say all mechanicals should be a they were in period and if that limits the engine to 8000 rpm then so be it.

[AMCO72]

Actually RogerH, I personally dont think you/me/others are hijaking this thread, because the issues we are talking about directly affect the fastback-anglia No55, and other potential restorations. If anyone wants to look up stuff on this car, they can, without too much hassle. They may have to wade through a bit of 'stuff', but you never know, you may find out something you didn't know by doing so. If fastback55 is going to rely on posts from other enthusiasts as well as himself that DIRECTLY relate to the rebuild of the Doyle/Dickie car, discussion might get a bit thin on the ground, and this thread will be in danger, as someone else put it, of 'slipping down the pecking order' and ending up on page 9, and it is too good to allow that to happen. Up to you fastback55......your decision.

[105angria]

ILL throw in my 5 bobs worth and im dealing with Cams not Manz, my Triumph 6 powered Anglia sports sedan is now classed as group U I must pick a time /meeting and base the car on that period,there are a couple of areas that i have a bit of flexability with ,the seat,harness, and can add a side bar to the rollcage {but it still needs to be original material} stainless brakelines and hoses,all good, however not really allowed electronic ignition {turn a blind eye} and got hassled about poly bushes, im also allowed time to get decals right,in the course of rebuild the camshaft grinder was surprised the car ran with the cam it had so that was amended, {but how would they check that}so other than there being a question re how noisy the car will be its ok this was never a front running car but a surprising number or people have fond memories of it other than a one off cost for COD $680 it was all straight forward,

[105angria]

Further comment to the conversation re Replicas ,bry3500 and I were discussing how we loved the pre breadvan Corvette Anglia with the pipes through the bonnet,so what would be the problem useing fastbacks resource, to make a car thats clearly labeled as a replica, like Gregs Morrari, I personaly would rather see a well researched and conceived example of these iconic cars running around than not, put thomos VW Gardners Corvair Lefoes Imp The Triang the list could go on for some time,Ive been doing a feasability on the Lefoe Imp and constructors of the car thought it would be easy enough to replicate,but insist that it would require a front suspension rethink to stop it lifting its wheels,now i would be happy to build this just for display runs and display ,and more just for the hell of it and demonstrate how interesting things were back then ,If people could get over there insecurities ,imagine a field or replicas and reals running around ,then organise a trans tasman challange who would go to v8 supercars

[bry3500]

Further comment to the conversation re Replicas ,bry3500 and I were discussing how we loved the pre breadvan Corvette Anglia with the pipes through the bonnet,so what would be the problem useing fastbacks resource, to make a car thats clearly labeled as a replica, like Gregs Morrari, I personaly would rather see a well researched and conceived example of these iconic cars running around than not, put thomos VW Gardners Corvair Lefoes Imp The Triang the list could go on for some time,Ive been doing a feasability on the Lefoe Imp and constructors of the car thought it would be easy enough to replicate,but insist that it would require a front suspension rethink to stop it lifting its wheels,now i would be happy to build this just for display runs and display ,and more just for the hell of it and demonstrate how interesting things were back then ,If people could get over there insecurities ,imagine a field or replicas and reals running around ,then organise a trans tasman challange who would go to v8 supercars
A Trans Tasman Osca- Allcomers- Sports Sedan demonstration/display - run in conjunction with the F5000's would be awesome. Custaxie, Morrarri, Miller Dauphine, Breadvans ,Algie Alfa, Miss Victorious etc mixed up with the Lefoe Imp, Thommo's VW and other Aussie iconic Sports Sedans running around together would be a huge crowd pleaser. I'm with you Angria..I would just like to see these things out on the track pedalling hard..I really have no interest in who comes 'first'

[RogerH]

With the "Custaxie" I understand from someone apparently in "the know" that it wasn't refused a COD. Evidently, a COD application was put in and the MSNZ people went back with a few questions of clarification regarding the claim that it was a replica of the original car. From what I understand they have been waiting a long time and still haven't had a response.

[Steve Holmes]

Sorry for the slow responce guys, I've just started a new thread on the Race Replica debate, not just on the Custaxie, but on race replicas in general: http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?360-The-Race-Replica-Debate&p=6771#post6771

[fastback55]

It's good to see the discussion continuing regarding replica's, I suppose my feelings are that if the original exists, there shouldn't be a replica, but it's a free world and I've always been a rebel, and whatever one wants to do they can do. Regarding performance upgrades, where do you draw the line, a safer brake set up would be a real performance upgrade. Safety has to be paramount though as it would be a disaster to wreck an original car and circuit safety is always important. How do people feel about wide steel wheels, I like the idea of seeing a car on original type wheels and not mags when they were never on the original and the original diameter too as cars with 17" rims when they were on 15" just doesn't look right by me?.

[Jac Mac]

You know....you can make a 'safe' brake setup out of old PBR, Girling whatever master cylinders, wheel cylinders & Calipers...as long as you work out the sizes-diameters-pad area-pedal ratio & disc/drum sizes...its just that many folk are too damn lazy & have not got a clue, same goes for your steel wheels, it just takes time to get them set up & running true before you even pick up the welder...choosing your donor wheels with regard to center strength is also important, I got a rev up years ago with my MKII Cortina about doing my own wheels so bowed to the wisdom of MANZ & bought from their reccomended supplier...two meetings later the center broke out of the right front going into the loop @ Teretonga, back in the pits the then VP of MANZ came over for a look...didnt stay long when I told him where he could stick his 'recommended' wheel supplier... and yes, keep them period correct @ 15", thanks to the resurgence of Trans Am & Cobra type cars Goodyear have started making some sizes that might suit your car, plus Hoosier are doing stuff as well, just have to 'blackout' those big hoosier letters..:)

[fastback55]

I'm sure you are right, I have built a pedal box using Girling master cylinders of the original size, I'm sure they will be fine. The wheels are 13" dia 12" wide at the back and 10" wide on the front. I'm sure I will be able to satisfy the officials and myself with some appropriate steel wheels safely built. Attached is an advertisement from a Motorman or motoring magazine of the period 1972 I think. $6000.00 ono seems a bargain for the package in this day and age

[Steve Holmes]

Hey that advert is cool. It does seem cheap I guess, but at the same time, for the new owner, theres nowhere to actually race the thing! Dickie was only selling it because these types of cars were outlawed in OSCA forcing him to build the Victor. Its interesting, I assumed the engine would have gone into the Victor, but it looks like its being sold with the Anglia.

[fastback55]

Yeah Steve I am sure that's what happened in the end as the Anglia was stripped by them. There must have been a fair bit going on in Ken's workshop in Hawarden. When I met with him years ago he told me they were casting ventilated brake rotors, probably not the easiest of things to do. I found him a lovely chap, I don't know whether he is still alive as he was getting on when I saw him.

[thunder427]

I'm sure you are right, I have built a pedal box using Girling master cylinders of the original size, I'm sure they will be fine. The wheels are 13" dia 12" wide at the back and 10" wide on the front. I'm sure I will be able to satisfy the officials and myself with some appropriate steel wheels safely built. Attached is an advertisement from a Motorman or motoring magazine of the period 1972 I think. $6000.00 ono seems a bargain for the package in this day and age

.......I would be happy in today's world to pay $6000.00 just for the 4Door 'Austin Healey'!!!!!!....regards thunder427/MJ:cool:

[fastback55]

I'm sure they're worth a bit of money now if in good nick, they're ugly buggers though in my opinion. I know it's 39 years too late for the advertisement above, but here's a picture of both at Hawarden. The Austin looks quite tidy from what you can see here.

[Steve Holmes]

Awesome! Colour shots of that car are gold. You rarely see them.

[AMCO72]

Ah, the old Westminster.....they were a sharp looking car. My favourite colour scheme was the pale grey with a deep red slash along the side. The one in the picture is pale green/blue body with the darker green/blue flash. When I read the ad I thought it was the later Farina styled Austin, but this one, with it's drilled wheels looked ever so much better. Either way, that big 6 cylinder engine sounded great and modified to A/Healey specs must have been awesome. A good heavy tow-car. Back to the Anglia. Did it ever have flares on it? The reason I ask is because it always looked unfinished in that area, and in fact the wheels/tyres seemed to be protruding beyond the arches, which you can see in the racing shots as well as when parked. One of the earlier pictures of the body show it in dark blue.....sitting on trestles having just been repainted I think. Are you going to return it to the 2 tone scheme as in the photo above?

[fastback55]

The pictures of it sitting on the trestles and the back of the international truck on page 1 of the thread are as it is now, painted dark green, a standard ford colour but a british racing green colour. The colour has probably not scanned so well as it looks blue on the trestle photo. I got it painted that colour only because that is the colour it was painted when Neil Doyle owned it and I liked it that colour better than the two tone blue/white when Alec Dickie owned it. I particularly like the shot above though as it looks mean. It has small wheel spats not disimilar to the ones seen on minis on the back, these are formed from metal with bodyfiller finishing the contoured shape. The front is formed from aluminium and flared slightly but as you say the wheels are barely covered and on several shots seem to stick out a bit. The wheels were 13" diameter, 12" wide on the rear and 10" wide on the front. I also like the strengthening gussets on the wheels in the photo above that give a mag wheel effect. I will fit these on the rims when I get some, I'm looking for one piece steel rims if I can find them, that will give the authorities less to moan about. I know the gussets will make them heavy as hell but that doesn't worry me, and seeing that I've already hand made them and it took ages they will be fitted.

[AMCO72]

Being a British racing Green man myself, I heartily endorse your colour choice! The Amco Mini was painted BRG the first season it raced, and black the second. I have combined the first years colour with the second years sponsorship so was/is a tribute to both seasons. I'm sure the Anglia will look just as mean in BRG, certainly with the paint choices available today. I'm sure also that you will weld your strengthening spokes up somewhat more professionally than on the wheels of the HWM.....see post 141 in Yards and Yarns. Am looking forward to seeing this car.

[fastback55]

I'm sure I have some slides of your car, I'm buying a cheap slide scanner so I can put some photos on here, I only hope the quality is reasonable. I'll let you know when I've got them ready, sort of thing that's in the shoe box at the back of the spare wardrobe. The car will be a fair way off yet but at least I'm doing something to get it finished. Life is full of other things and the wife seems to have a long list every weekend.

[fastback55]

The picture that we looked at when deciding to see whether the car existed. As you can see by the well fingered picture the magazine was a regular reader in the toilet.

[AMCO72]

That sure is a mysterious picture. Looks as though the car has been driven INTO a bog, not looked at On the bog!!!!!!!

[fastback55]

Ha ha you're right, it sure is a crap picture!!!!. Actually looked better before the scan took a harder look at the folds in the paper instead of the picture of the car.

[Oldfart]

I thought this might be of interest

[fastback55]

Thanks for that, I'd like to see as many photos of the car as possible and each one helps a lot.

[fastback55]

Bay Park 1968? Mini men is one of these mini's Brian Foley? I particularly like the look of the car at this stage of it's racing life. I have a colour slide of the car taken at the same meeting that I will put on the thread when I get a slide scanner

[105angria]

this is looking like the period you have picked as the one for the car fastback,you have given us a bit of a glue about replica, how would you feel about a replica of the car as it was in post 75 if it was done in consultation with you as you are the keeper of its history and probebly have the best resource will send you a pm of the rollcage positioning in my Anglia over the weekend when i can get some room around the car

[bry3500]

this is looking like the period you have picked as the one for the car fastback,you have given us a bit of a glue about replica, how would you feel about a replica of the car as it was in post 75 if it was done in consultation with you as you are the keeper of its history and probebly have the best resource will send you a pm of the rollcage positioning in my Anglia over the weekend when i can get some room around the car
It would be interesting to see 3 cars side by side showing the evolution :)

[AMCO72]

Yes BUT, only one of them would be genuine, or mostly genuine......certainly as far as the body was concerned. I can see where 'angria' is coming from though. As an Anglia man, he would like to create the 1st version of the car as being the easiest to replicate, but when all said and done it is one-in-the-same car, with modifications to the roof, front and exhaust on the last version. All race cars 'evolve', some more dramatically than others. And WHAT are you going to call them...Doyle/Dickie fastback I, II, III etc. Starting to get into muddy waters here. I think if I was fastback, I would scotch any attempt at reproducing, replicating, or otherwise 'copying' the original versions of HIS car, but I'm not him, so I had better shut-up!!!!!

[bry3500]

Yes BUT, only one of them would be genuine, or mostly genuine......certainly as far as the body was concerned. I can see where 'angria' is coming from though. As an Anglia man, he would like to create the 1st version of the car as being the easiest to replicate, but when all said and done it is one-in-the-same car, with modifications to the roof, front and exhaust on the last version. All race cars 'evolve', some more dramatically than others. And WHAT are you going to call them...Doyle/Dickie fastback I, II, III etc. Starting to get into muddy waters here. I think if I was fastback, I would scotch any attempt at reproducing, replicating, or otherwise 'copying' the original versions of HIS car, but I'm not him, so I had better shut-up!!!!!
Just stirring the pot AMC ;)

[105angria]

amco is 100% correct that fastback has the right to veto any replica recreation,i have total respect as he is obviously doing a great job and loves the car and its history,hunted the car down and has kept on task over many years hats off to the man,and a recreation would have nothing original about it, however with Fastbacks cooperation an"authentic "representation of this iconic car may be possible,as an Anglia man this car is the one that started that interest along with the yellow submarine ,as a graphic illustration how this car evolved from the rough hewn raw black roaring beast with the headers through the bonnet and strut tower proud of the wings, into the almost sleak sophisticated car fastbacks rebuilding would be priceless in my humble view, but it would have to be well conceved ,authentic in every aspect possible and no pastiche,Living in Aust it may not have much relevance to the locals ,A recreation of the Harry Lefoe ford V8 powered Hillman Imp is what im researching at present

[fastback55]

I have watched with interest the debate regarding replica's and restorations and I can see merits from both sides of the fence. I particularly like the comment by one contributor who said of the 2thousand odd Mk1 Lotus cortina's made, 5thousand odd still exist (figures wrong I know but once in the thread writing this I haven't the computer skills to find the exact numbers without losing what I have written already). Regarding the replica of Neil Doyle's Anglia Corvette with original body shape, I can't see how I can stop someone making one if they felt so inclined to do so. What I would object to is for them to advertise it as the original restored. In my job I have to sit all the corporate crap tests that are required yearly to cover business backsides, in these tests we have among them ethics, it describes how you cannot portray things to be what they're not, among other things. Having sat these tests and passed, I am liable for anything that I say and write that is incorrect freeing the company of blame. If I advertised the Custaxie as it is advertised on Trade Me I would be in deep poo and I suspect it is probably illegal if taken to court as advertised. However the person who purchases the Custaxie won't be in the same market as an Audi A4 so they will be well aware of what they are buying. I have no problem with the Custaxie as it is great to see it up and running and obviously a very fine, well researched and built REPLICA, like everybody else I loved seeing it at Hampton Down's. Also nice to see the original drivers having a thrash in the cars they used to drive, and who gives a damn whether they're winning as it's the cars we've come to see. A race jacked up to allow a legend to win isn't worth crap. Obviously new cars are faster, a test of a mk1 Lotus Cortina in last months Classic Car magazine show's a 0 to 60mph in 13.6 seconds, pitiful, my 4wd Jeep off roader does it in 9.6 just a sign how things have changed. Good to see the pot of poo being well stirred eh bry3500 ha ha I like the banter in all the threads, wish I had discovered it years ago and well done Steve for setting it up. 105 Angria have attached picture of strut towers to show they still exist in the newer shape.

[105angria]

what are the front guards fabricated in fastback you mentioned alum earlyer,i its nice work who did that do you know ,dont think you could build a rep of the early version of this car without your input,

[Kwaussie]

Interesting photo of the strut towers - I will post a question in the Anglia thread regarding a Christchurch car.

[fastback55]

Yes they are aluminium, they are riveted in places as you can see in the attached photo. I know Murray Elwood worked on the car, I don't know if he did the body work. The body work is well done. Murray Elwood's headstone at Barrytown on the west coast has the Anglia cast into it. Classic Driver magazine had a picture of it. If any South Island or other readers can help with information on who helped Neil Doyle to build the car I would be glad to know. I know it is mentioned on your Anglia Thread where someone remembers the car being built in a garage on the outskirts of Ashburton.

[fastback55]

# 65 in the Anglia Thread from fastback mentions Tinwald Service Station and Murray Elwood and Ian Donald as builders of the car

[105angria]

interesting version of the car on the headstone

[fastback55]

Car on the headstone is much as #64 on the Anglia thread when it had the fastback but no roof chop, also much the same as the roll over picture on this thread. I have a feeling that Murray might have raced the car a couple of times.

[fastback]

Terry Masrshall photographer has a great photo of the car taken at Pukekohe, I think 1964 with Ian Donald leaning on the roof and Neil Doyle looking on as the car is prepared for racing.

[fastback55]

Yeah I have that photo, got it from the "Old Race Car" site, it certainly looked rough in those days. I'll have another look as I knew Neil but didn't know who the others were. Thanks.

[fastback55]

Terry Masrshall photographer has a great photo of the car taken at Pukekohe, I think 1964 with Ian Donald leaning on the roof and Neil Doyle looking on as the car is prepared for racing.
Is this the photo you were talking about fastback? Is that Ian Donald in overalls?

[105angria]

no sign of the strut towers here, awesome, this must have evolved ,every outing,howmuch history do you have Fastback?

[fastback]

No Ian Donald has the hat on. Murray Elwood in the overalls. Great photo.
Gus Burke did the bodywork for alex Dickie. A very clever fabricator and panelbeater who worked on many osca cars.

[bob homewood]

Thats how I remember them and the car at that time ,I wouldn't have been very far away from that photo,thats around the Firestone tyre era I mentioned in another thread

[fastback55]

Bay Park

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, that Bay Park photo is great! When would that have been taken? And what class would it have been racing in? Was this an occasion when OSCA did some racing in the North Island?

[fastback55]

This was the same meeting as #77 on this thread which was taken from a Shell Motor Racing Yearbook that they produced. It was either '67 or '68 when Brian Foley came to Bay Park, I've searched google and can't find any details. Neil Doyle is driving at this time so it's several years before OSCA. I don't know what class it would have been in at that time, I would have loved to have been there, but was still in Taranaki at that time and had only witnessed Paratutu Racing at that stage. This photo was taken by an ex workmate and is my first time at scanning a slide, hardest problem is resizing down to a size suitable to fit on the site. I have a few Bay Park slides I want to clean and place on the Bay Park thread, about 3 of the Jim Smith Rover that I took, a car I really liked due to my old man having one at the time and the fact that it was different to all the others.

[Rod Grimwood]

Bay Park

Great photo,this will have the memory banks ticking over, are we sure it is Bay Park as can not remember a house in the back ground at Bay Park, tends to lead to Levin. There were no house's at Bay Park and actually it was the eventual underhand council houseing in later years that saw the demise of Bay Park.

Mind you track layuot looks like BP. This would have to be way back in the original haydays, as not too many fences, and look at the crowd in the background, they would have to have been on the back straight (crowd) Ok lets work out date Etc

[Steve Holmes]

You've done a nice job with it. I find Tinypic is a good website for resizing and uploading images to forums: http://tinypic.com/

I'll try and find out more info on that photo and what race the car was in.

[Steve Holmes]

This was the same meeting as #77 on this thread which was taken from a Shell Motor Racing Yearbook that they produced. It was either '67 or '68 when Brian Foley came to Bay Park, I've searched google and can't find any details. Neil Doyle is driving at this time so it's several years before OSCA. I don't know what class it would have been in at that time, I would have loved to have been there, but was still in Taranaki at that time and had only witnessed Paratutu Racing at that stage. This photo was taken by an ex workmate and is my first time at scanning a slide, hardest problem is resizing down to a size suitable to fit on the site. I have a few Bay Park slides I want to clean and place on the Bay Park thread, about 3 of the Jim Smith Rover that I took, a car I really liked due to my old man having one at the time and the fact that it was different to all the others.

Yeah good point re the house Rod. But did Levin have armco?

[Rod Grimwood]

Steve, Bay Park only had wooden slat fences that looked the part. They had pretty good sand trap run offs. John Riley was grateful for that when he backed the Camaro in at Harmans and still nudged the fence, and Geoff Sutherland in his E49 (silver and quick) went into sand and dug in and flipped over same fence and landed upside down in the pits in a spare space next to Woolfy and his Escort. Thats another story.

[fastback55]

Great photo,this will have the memory banks ticking over, are we sure it is Bay Park as can not remember a house in the back ground at Bay Park, tends to lead to Levin. There were no house's at Bay Park and actually it was the eventual underhand council houseing in later years that saw the demise of Bay Park.

Mind you track layuot looks like BP. This would have to be way back in the original haydays, as not too many fences, and look at the crowd in the background, they would have to have been on the back straight (crowd) Ok lets work out date Etc

Yeah you're right Rod I can't remember a house anywhere near the track and I flag marshaled there a few times from around "69 to '70. Woody, the guy who supplied the slide said it was at Bay Park and the trees certainly look the part. If anyone has the Shell book it will tell you the year. Neil only came north twice from what I know, once in the car as it was with the exhaust through the bonnet and the other time when this photo and the previous one mentioned were taken. My ex neighbor was Mark Grimwood, any relation?

[Rod Grimwood]

fastback55: not sure about Mark, but if he is good looking, could be. I have a few distant relations down that way as family originally Pinehaven, Wellington. Wondering if may be Bay Park at one of very original meetings as trees look like end of back straight and camping ground. Maybe they built up sandhill later to hide house and assist with noise for camping ground. Trees ring a bell the way they are situated. Don Halliday could help with confirming trees and position.

[fastback55]

You've done a nice job with it. I find Tinypic is a good website for resizing and uploading images to forums: http://tinypic.com/

I'll try and find out more info on that photo and what race the car was in.

Thanks Steve, I'll try that site, I'm lacking skills when it comes to playing with pictures, but I'm prepared to persevere and see what comes forth, I have some good pics of Alan Boyle's Viva and one of Alan Woolfe's Triumph Vitesse and Max Pennington's wildfire escort, but they all have suffered badly from being randomly thrown in a shoe box and stacked in the spare bedroom wardrobe. Probably the fate of a lot of gem's from the past. Great to see the quality of some enthusiasts photos that have posted on this site, obviously from some who have greater camera skills and equipment and who have looked after their collection a lot better than I have.

[rogered]

If this "Mark" chap has any resemblance to Merv Hughes then my guess is yes:p

[bob homewood]

5074

Rod I believe that photo is from Bay Park ,I can't find them at the moment But I do have some more of that meeting ,in the mean time you can have this one from Ruapuna which would have been taken when I lived in the South Island so would possibly have been just before OSCA kicked off,now how many people etc do we know here

[Rod Grimwood]

Said fence at Bay Park and foregiving wood and sand.

[fastback55]

5563

[AvonD]

I have some old photos that my grandfather had of Dads racing days, including the Anglia and the Victor if you are interested, not sure if there is anything helpful, but I would love to share with anyone thats interested. Small world, I used to drive past that fast back anglia parked in Governors bay and always thought I should go in and talk to the owner, didnt know he had Dads old one as well, missed oportunities. I would love to see his old car in the flesh, if its ever back in Chch. Avon Dickie

[105angria]

look forward to seeing your pictures Avon,fastback looks like he is doing a nice job with the resto, out of interest which is the version of the car you like the best ? all pics are helpfull

[Steve Holmes]

Great to have you here Avon, your contributions will be appreciated.

[Steve Holmes]

Bob Homewood has sent me this photo from Ron McPhails collection.

6539

[fastback55]

Great picture thanks Bob and Steve, the colour is way out though as it was the blue of the previous pictures. The body is as we picked up from Governors Bay but it was in a much more deteriorated state of course, I have all the scoops on the front. It's interesting to see the strut brace that has additional pieces back to the firewall or what's left of it after the modifications to insert the engine. I must try to blow up this photo to get some more detail of the engine bay. One of my workmates commented that it looks a really long car although of course it's only small, an optical illusion with the roof chop, it's very low as you can see with Alec and Ken standing by in the first photo of this thread. I do like those wheels. This would be one shot you haven't seen Avon.

[bob homewood]

Yes I knew the colour was not right ,but I sent it exactly as Ron sent it to me ,I do have the much larger original which I had to resize to post ,if you email me I will send you a copy of the original that Ron sent me ,it might be better to scale from that ,its probably worth checking it out anyway

[pallmall]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/gavinevitt/AngliaCorvette.jpg

[Steve Holmes]

How is the restoration progressing on this car?

[Rod Grimwood]

Now, was this the start of big conversion ?

[Rod Grimwood]

Looks like just cruising on a Sunday afternoon

[J42E48]

and Geoff Sutherland in his E49 (silver and quick) went into sand and dug in and flipped over same fence and landed upside down in the pits in a spare space next to Woolfy and his Escort. Thats another story.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z379/BigTankE48/GSPits.jpg

[Steve Holmes]

Now, was this the start of big conversion ?

Wow, is that the same car Rod?

[Rod Grimwood]

Wow, is that the same car Rod?

Check the number plate, looks the same to my old eyes.

[Carlo]

Check the number plate, looks the same to my old eyes.

To the best of my knowledge it is the same car, think it may have started life as a Palmer & Doak conversion which is how I think that it was 1st raced prior to the Chev installation

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks for that info guys.

[SPman]

Is this the photo you were talking about fastback? Is that Ian Donald in overalls?

This is how I remember it - and the overiding memory is coming out of Railway bend at the beginning of the main straight at Puke, and the massive amount of axle tramp - the rear end trying to tie itself in knots as the fearless driver tried to put the boot in......

[Steve Holmes]

Any further progress on this car?

[camaroman slp]

Bay Park
Hi i was wondering how the restoration of the Anglia fastback was going towards its return to the track im sure Alec Dickies family and friends cant wait for its revival such a cool car.

[John McKechnie]

this thread was going really well, just been looking back at the pics, and all the contributors..
Fastback55- there are a lot of hardcore fans out here who still think of your car and of course look forward to seeing it in the flesh again.
We all have memories of this memorable car, and understand the work needed takes time, understanding and patience.

[V12 racer]

I remember doing some panel and paint on this in my shop in Napier many years ago, I owned the grey Dodge flat deck with the shell on the back when I was dropping it off. Will be great to see this on the track, been a while now but good things take time...

[Grant Sprague]

I remember doing some panel and paint on this in my shop in Napier many years ago, I owned the grey Dodge flat deck with the shell on the back when I was dropping it off. Will be great to see this on the track, been a while now but good things take time... I can re call very easily when Neil got this car going ...just about every 3rd weekend we had Levels or Ruapuna cranked up..the main stayers in front of this feild was Neil, Ron Silvester & Gary always great races . [yr mid 60,s]....Neils car would have been a real hand full the v8s out gunning Gary on the straights but bro ,s car better under brakes & through turns the crowds loved it , last time I saw Neil was on a Cook Straight Ferry we had a catch up & he was farming some where in S/ Cant ... this was going back at least 15 yrs ago lol

[Elwood]

Here's photos of the anglia corvette when it was first built by my dad Murray elwood n tinwald ashburton2537825379

[Elwood]

Just added some of it now

[fastback]

Hi
I knew Murray when he worked at Gluyas motors in Ashburton before he went to work at Tinwald service station.
He drove a modified mk2 zephyr which we all as school boys just thought was the coolest car tripple su carbs with a big cam lowerd with wide rims. He used to let us into the lube bay where the anglia was getting built and he had help

[Rascal]

2568825689
To the best of my knowledge it is the same car, think it may have started life as a Palmer & Doak conversion which is how I think that it was 1st raced prior to the Chev installation

Hi Carlo, All myths aside, there is no Palmer & Doak connection, sorry Mate.


Murray Elwood purchased the Dark green 105E Anglia , virtually brand new; from Gluyas Ford around 1961.
Murray had long since completed his mechanics Apprentiship at Gluyas Ford, & Had modified a Ford 1937 v8 coupe and later a very rapid mk2 zephyr with 3 carb R/Mays type Head, etc , work that had been inspired by Murrays association with Ernie Sprague.

Murray ran The Anglia , on the street, lightly modified from stock , but with a 1200-1340 cc & twin carb upgrade , widened rims etc ,all along Keeping the very modified mk 2 Zephyr road car.

By this stage Murray had left Gluyas Ford & was running the workshop at Tinwald [ SHELL] service station for the owne Geoff Gearing.

Being in my last high school years about this time, My father Was responsible servicing most of the BP & Shell co Fuel pump & oil installations in Mid Canterbury and I went to most Garages with him on school Holiday breaks and witnesses first hand much of the Anglia Corvettes building from the start.

But, Long before the " Corvette" part of the Anglia came into being, Neil doyle , who worked the Doyle family farm at Mayfeild, inland from Ashburton , befriended Murray & may have soon purchased The Anglia , in that stock - lightly modified form , from Murray Elwood.
Doyle certainly raced it in that non v8 form at some venues, including the Waimate 50, where, some old film footage & photos that still exist , show the car , driven by Doyle ,clipping the Gutter & hay bales [ just off the main straight-first RH corner] & grinding to a halt with a broken stub axle & wheel still attached to one another.

It was after this that the chev v8 idea was mooted, the Greater costs funded by Neil , But much of the labour input, Running around ; advice & untold hours & hours of time & effort given by Murray Elwood & no doubt the garage proprietor Geoff Gearing.

The "GT350" decal on the car in the photo shown was Neil Doyles later method of entering the car
in various events as a "GT350 Sports" , this being due to MANZ at that time changing the rules about allcomers saloon eligability in many events.

Long after Murrays Anglia -corvette days had passed with the car in Neil Doyles ownership , murray continued to be involved in Local motorsport & encouraging many young guys, , this writer included; to get involved & we did.
Murray bought the remains of the Begg chev , previously driven by Brent Hawes
Rebuilt it , fitting an Olds - Buick alloy v8 engine & Had Vern Rule build a new body
and that was entered in Sports car events as the Elmac Olds.

Murray Had a love for Jaguar & Mercededs road cars & later shifted to Greymouth and worked For Jim Kennedy [ grey Ford dealership]

Theres no doubt that Alex Dickie, who acquired the car From Neil Doyle, certainly transformed it into a much better Car, the extended wheelbase [ Floor chassis longer from the B pillar back] & smoother frontal mods highlighting those changes.
That fact that this car has survived at all, is great to see and what the new owner is doing to restore it back to that allcomer saloon status.
.

[Grant Sprague]

2568825689

Hi Carlo, All myths aside, there is no Palmer & Doak connection, sorry Mate.


Murray Elwood purchased the Dark green 105E Anglia , virtually brand new; from Gluyas Ford around 1961.
Murray had long since completed his mechanics Apprentiship at Gluyas Ford, & Had modified a Ford 1937 v8 coupe and later a very rapid mk2 zephyr with 3 carb R/Mays type Head, etc , work that had been inspired by Murrays association with Ernie Sprague.

Murray ran The Anglia , on the street, lightly modified from stock , but with a 1200-1340 cc & twin carb upgrade , widened rims etc ,all along Keeping the very modified mk 2 Zephyr road car.

By this stage Murray had left Gluyas Ford & was running the workshop at Tinwald [ SHELL] service station for the owne Geoff Gearing.

Being in my last high school years about this time, My father Was responsible servicing most of the BP & Shell co Fuel pump & oil installations in Mid Canterbury and I went to most Garages with him on school Holiday breaks and witnesses first hand much of the Anglia Corvettes building from the start.

But, Long before the " Corvette" part of the Anglia came into being, Neil doyle , who worked the Doyle family farm at Mayfeild, inland from Ashburton , befriended Murray & may have soon purchased The Anglia , in that stock - lightly modified form , from Murray Elwood.
Doyle certainly raced it in that non v8 form at some venues, including the Waimate 50, where, some old film footage & photos that still exist , show the car , driven by Doyle ,clipping the Gutter & hay bales [ just off the main straight-first RH corner] & grinding to a halt with a broken stub axle & wheel still attached to one another.

It was after this that the chev v8 idea was mooted, the Greater costs funded by Neil , But much of the labour input, Running around ; advice & untold hours & hours of time & effort given by Murray Elwood & no doubt the garage proprietor Geoff Gearing.

The "GT350" decal on the car in the photo shown was Neil Doyles later method of entering the car
in various events as a "GT350 Sports" , this being due to MANZ at that time changing the rules about allcomers saloon eligability in many events.

Long after Murrays Anglia -corvette days had passed with the car in Neil Doyles ownership , murray continued to be involved in Local motorsport & encouraging many young guys, , this writer included; to get involved & we did.
Murray bought the remains of the Begg chev , previously driven by Brent Hawes
Rebuilt it , fitting an Olds - Buick alloy v8 engine & Had Vern Rule build a new body
and that was entered in Sports car events as the Elmac Olds.

Murray Had a love for Jaguar & Mercededs road cars & later shifted to Greymouth and worked For Jim Kennedy [ grey Ford dealership]

Theres no doubt that Alex Dickie, who acquired the car From Neil Doyle, certainly transformed it into a much better Car, the extended wheelbase [ Floor chassis longer from the B pillar back] & smoother frontal mods highlighting those changes.
That fact that this car has survived at all, is great to see and what the new owner is doing to restore it back to that allcomer saloon status.
.With out a doubt , in my opinion this SI car was the best looking , meanest ... Anglia ever ......watched it race as a kid for many years , Neal Doyle drove it so well .. not sure how he stopped the thing , would have been a heavy old girl.... but seemed to pull up well as I remember .....

[Frosty5]

2568825689

Hi Carlo, All myths aside, there is no Palmer & Doak connection, sorry Mate.


Murray Elwood purchased the Dark green 105E Anglia , virtually brand new; from Gluyas Ford around 1961.
Murray had long since completed his mechanics Apprentiship at Gluyas Ford, & Had modified a Ford 1937 v8 coupe and later a very rapid mk2 zephyr with 3 carb R/Mays type Head, etc , work that had been inspired by Murrays association with Ernie Sprague.

Murray ran The Anglia , on the street, lightly modified from stock , but with a 1200-1340 cc & twin carb upgrade , widened rims etc ,all along Keeping the very modified mk 2 Zephyr road car.

By this stage Murray had left Gluyas Ford & was running the workshop at Tinwald [ SHELL] service station for the owne Geoff Gearing.

Being in my last high school years about this time, My father Was responsible servicing most of the BP & Shell co Fuel pump & oil installations in Mid Canterbury and I went to most Garages with him on school Holiday breaks and witnesses first hand much of the Anglia Corvettes building from the start.

But, Long before the " Corvette" part of the Anglia came into being, Neil doyle , who worked the Doyle family farm at Mayfeild, inland from Ashburton , befriended Murray & may have soon purchased The Anglia , in that stock - lightly modified form , from Murray Elwood.
Doyle certainly raced it in that non v8 form at some venues, including the Waimate 50, where, some old film footage & photos that still exist , show the car , driven by Doyle ,clipping the Gutter & hay bales [ just off the main straight-first RH corner] & grinding to a halt with a broken stub axle & wheel still attached to one another.

It was after this that the chev v8 idea was mooted, the Greater costs funded by Neil , But much of the labour input, Running around ; advice & untold hours & hours of time & effort given by Murray Elwood & no doubt the garage proprietor Geoff Gearing.

The "GT350" decal on the car in the photo shown was Neil Doyles later method of entering the car
in various events as a "GT350 Sports" , this being due to MANZ at that time changing the rules about allcomers saloon eligability in many events.

Long after Murrays Anglia -corvette days had passed with the car in Neil Doyles ownership , murray continued to be involved in Local motorsport & encouraging many young guys, , this writer included; to get involved & we did.
Murray bought the remains of the Begg chev , previously driven by Brent Hawes
Rebuilt it , fitting an Olds - Buick alloy v8 engine & Had Vern Rule build a new body
and that was entered in Sports car events as the Elmac Olds.

Murray Had a love for Jaguar & Mercededs road cars & later shifted to Greymouth and worked For Jim Kennedy [ grey Ford dealership]

Theres no doubt that Alex Dickie, who acquired the car From Neil Doyle, certainly transformed it into a much better Car, the extended wheelbase [ Floor chassis longer from the B pillar back] & smoother frontal mods highlighting those changes.
That fact that this car has survived at all, is great to see and what the new owner is doing to restore it back to that allcomer saloon status.
.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Johnny Riley fit an Oldsmobile V8 to an Anglia. I recall a story that he was coming south and took the Tip Top corner on the motorway around 138mph. Apparently only he and the laundry man knew how scared he was. Myth or fact.
Dave Graham

[Grant Sprague]

Hi Dave......I am not sure ......not heard of this probably a NI thing in the 60,s.... some one else might though some light on it .. cheers Grant

[GD66]

Yeah rings a bell, I think the Angular may have been the same candy apple red his Lotus 19/27 was.

[SPman]

Yes, he certainly did have an Anglia Oldsmobile - it wasn't particularly successful on the track and came and went almost without anyone noticing, although it was very tidily presented. Candy Apple red indeed. Last saw it driving down Wellesley street in Auckland, sometime in the late 60's

[woody]

There is a write up on the Anglia Olds in the Feb. 68 Australian Hot Rod Review.

[Roger Dowding]

There is a write up on the Anglia Olds in the Feb. 68 Australian Hot Rod Review.

Woody, any chance of a copy, PM me and will give you an E-mail address..

[woody]

Keep an I out on Ebay.

[John McKechnie]

Well, theres its registration plate..... start tracking.

[Roger Dowding]

Have this photo taken at [ from the notes on the back ] the " 68 GP " Pukekohe NZ Grand Prix meeting January 1968.
I have written " Anglia Oldsmobile - Neil Doyle ". Unfortunately no other shot - rear view would probably have a number plate.

30955

Perhaps someone with the 1968 GP programme can help with this - I gave mine away