ferrari 625 tasman - pat hoare

[petgro]

I am a dutch ferrari historian - new to your forum - who has been researching this car for over 15 years.
Hereby the data i collected on this car:

Ferrari GP Monoposto 625 Tasman
Serialnumber: #0712

In the books:


The complete Ferrari, by Godfrey Eaton, page 302:
625 Tasman: 4-cylinder in-line, 2730cc, 98.5x90 mm, 250 bhp at 6200 rpm, CR 9.0:1, double ohc, 2 plugs per cylinder, 2x42 DCOA Webers. Chassis as 625A, except 555 F1-type 5-speed gearbox integral with final drive.
Built for Pat Hoare for Formula Libre racing, this used a modified 625A chassis with 555 F1 5-speed transaxle and unique bodywork with Lancia D50 tail tank. The engine was an enlarged version of the 1956 2.5-litre 625LM sports car unit (type 137).


Ferrari, fifth edition, by Hans Tanner with Doug Nye, page 256:
Ferrari maintained his interest in the New Zealand races but, despite lengthy negotiations with the organizers of these events, he decided that he could not participate. To make up for this he agreed to supply a special car to New Zealand driver, Pat Hoare, so that the name of Ferrari would be represented.
The Special was typical of Ferrari’s policy with customers’ cars. Nothing exceptional was designed and he settled on using up components that were available and not much use to the factory. The basis of the car was a type 500 chassis fitted with a specially tuned version of the type 625 4-cylinder Le Mans sports car engine which had been bored out from 2.5 to 2.8 litres. A Supersqualo transmission was used to give lower seating position and a neat body, incorporating a Lancia D50 fuel tank, completed the car. With this car Pat Hoare ran in most of the races in New Zealand where the car performed with a certain amount of success.
The 4-cylinder engine was inclined to be troublesome and Hoare tried to find a 12-cylinder as a substitute. An appeal to the factory brought forward suggestion that a completely new car be provided and the New Zealander agreed to this.
Page 256 shows also a picture: New Zealand special Ferrari, originally built for Pat Hoare with a 2.5-litre 4-cylinder engine, but it is now running with a 2-litre 4-cylinder. Here (picture) it is driven by its late owner, British Littlewoods Pools heir, Nigel Moores.


Ferrari’s Owners Club Register thirds edition:
625 Tasman 1958-1960. 4-cylinder in-line, 2730cc, 98.5x90mm, 250 bhp at 6200 rpm, CR 9.0:1, double ohc, two plugs per cylinder, 2 x 42 DCOA Webers. Chassis as 625A except 555F1 type 5-speed gearbox integral with final drive.
Notes: Special car for Formula Libre racing, built in 1957 for Pat Hoare of New Zealand. Used modified 625A chassis with 555 F1 5-speed transaxle and unique bodywork with Lancia D50 tail tank. Engine was enlarged version of 1956 2.5 litre 625LM sports car unit (tipo 137). Raced by Hoare in New Zealand 1958 to 1960 then sold.






The Ferrari Register – supplement one, by Dr. Robert B. Marvin:
625 Tasman 1957-1960, 500 chassis; bored out 625 sports engine; some Lancia parts; sold to Pat Hoare, New Zealand 1958; then Shuter & Brown; raced in English historic events; presently (1981) in Nigel Moores’ estate with 2-litre engine.




Ferrari, I Quattro Cilindri:
As its name, the Tasman, indicates, this model was destined for Tasmania, the island in the Pacific, to the South-east of Australia. It was a single seater outfitted at Maranello for particular customers to run in their own local races.
The 625 chassis was equipped with a 137 engine directly derived from the 131 on which the bore was widened from 90 to 100mm and the stroke lengthened from 78 to 95mm. This produced unit and total cylinder capacities of 746.12 and 2984.51cc respectively and a bore/stroke ratio of 0.95/1.
The fuel supply was handled by two Weber 52 DCO carburettors and the ignition system employed two spark plugs per cylinder and two ignition coils.
This engine developed 260 bhp at 6000 rpm with a compression ratio of 8.6:1, a specific power output of 87.11 bhp/litre and an average piston speed at peak power output of 19 m/sec.




History:
Delivered new to Pat Hoare (NZ)
11-1-1958 4th – 5th GP New Zealand, Ardmore – Hoare – total of 75 laps – 1h54m40.7s (car described as 625 Ferrari 3000cc!!)
25-1-1958 4th – 7th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram – Hoare – 69 laps
1-2-1958 4th – 6th Dunedin Road Race, Dunedin - Hoare
8-2-1958 ?? – 1st Teretonga International, Teretonga – Hoare
10-1-1959 11th – 6th NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore – Hoare – total of 70 laps –
raceno. 16
24-1-1959 Ret. – 8th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram – Hoare – 7 laps, piston
31-1-1959 7th – 1st Waimate 50, Waimate – Hoare – 33 laps
7-2-1959 ?? – 2nd Teretonga International, Teretonga – Hoare
9-1-1960 8th – 7th NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore – Hoare
23-1-1960 5th – 9th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram – Hoare
30-1-1960 2nd – 7th Dunedin Road Race, Dunedin – Hoare
6-2-1960 4th – 3rd Teretonga International, Teretonga – Hoare
13-2-1960 2nd – 2nd Waimate 500, Waimate – Hoare
end 1960 Car sold to Frank Shuter (NZ)
11-1960 1st – 1st Renwick 50, Renwick – Shuter
7-1-1961.1 11th – 8th NZ Grand Prix, Ardmore – Shuter – total of 67 laps raceno. 2
21-1-1961.1 Ret. – 10th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram – Shuter (car crashed, broken in two)
28-1-1961 DNA – 8th Dunedin Road Race, Dunedin – Shuter

1969 Car sold to John Brown (UK)
1969 Car sold to Nigel Moores, heir of the British Littlewood Pools
17-5-1969 Amoc Martini Trophy, Siverstone – Moores
23-9-1973 JCB 10-lap Trophy, Cristal Palace – Moores
1988 Following the death of Moores, the car was sold by his estate to Hayashi (JAP)
199? Sold to Evert Louman and displayed by him in the Nationaal Automobiel Museum at Raamsdonksveer, Netherlands. The car is still in its livery as shown in the picture on page 256 in Hans Tanner’s and Doug Nye’s, Ferrari fifth edition.

The car is now equipped with engine #0672 MDTR which is equipped with two Weber 45DCOA (45 DCOA #3 back + 45 DCOA #4 front).


Source: 1. Ferrari, fifth edition by Hans Tanner & Doug Nye
2. The complete Ferrari, by G. Eaton
3. Ferrari’s Owner Club Register third edition
4. The Ferrari Register – supplement one - , by Dr. Robert B. Marvin
5. Ferrari, I Quattro cilindri, by Francesco Scaletti
6. Marcel Massini
7. Jarrett Rothmeier
8. www.sergent.com.au/nzgp.html
9. Andrew Wass


C:PETERGROOTSWAGERS(NL)

Can anybody help me please with additional data, stories when raced and especcially pictures of this car when raced.

Right now this car is in the Louman Museum in Wassenaar - the Netherlands.

Peter

[RogerH]

Hi Peter - welcome to the forum. I presume you have read David Manton's recently published book on Pat Hoare and Ferrari - there is much information and photos on the Ferrari 625 - http://ferrarisecretwar.com/index.html

[petgro]

Yes, I bought the in july and read in two days during my vacation in Italy!!

Here are some pictures of the car some years back in the museum in Holland.

[petgro]

some more pictures

[David McKinney]

The nose certainly doesn't look right - maybe it's the camera angles

[AMCO72]

I'm sorry, but I must be thick! [dont answer that] Is this 'The Other GTO' or another car altogether. Nothing seems to add up to me. Mr McKinney, where are you?

[GD66]

[I'm not answering...] but that's another car entirely, mate.

Stand by for full info from The Fountain...


Or you could wander through this while you're waiting...

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=87195&hl=Pat+Hoare

[AMCO72]

Yes OK, thanks for that forum link. The car certainly looks as though it's been through the wars. When the 'GTO' was sold to England minnus bodywork, and rerestored to 'original' ,I couldn't imagine the restorers putting up with 'welds' that are evident in some of the pictures..... Iv'e seen better at Cambridge High Schools' third form welding classes!!!! Is amazing what Ferrari palmed off on to us colonials, and is probably why it has ended it's days as a museum piece.

[pallmall]

Regarding the David Manton book, is it only available through online sources or is it going to be available in NZ bookstores?

[GD66]

It's $29.95 on amazon.com at the moment. Not listed at Pitstop Bookshop.

[stubuchanan]

Regarding the David Manton book, is it only available through online sources or is it going to be available in NZ bookstores?

I bought mine 2 or 3 months ago from The Book Depository of Gloucester UK total cost on my Visa was $46.48 NZ and it arrived in less than 2 weeks. You can find them easily via Google.

Re the nose and body shape, it doesn't look quite right to me either (David). Way back I wondered if it was a very original Lancia body from 1954, before Ferrari got at them. Doesn't look much like any Ferrari of the era.

Stu

[AMCO72]

Wasn't it a cobbled up 'bitsa' with a sports car engine. Apparently was a cantankerous old bitch!!! [sorry thunder427]....it shouldn't have been with a fairly mildly tuned 4 cylinder engine with modest horse-power, compared to a GP. This is where I got ballsed up. Hoare going to Ferrari for a new engine for it and coming home with a complete car, a V12 at that. What a leap of faith....4 cylinders to 12. Now they, could be, and often were cantankerous....the Roycroft car for instance. Maybe it was our mechanics here in NZ who didnt quite understand these things, or maybe not enough money to keep them fresh, but none of these imports ever lived up to their name. Makes me feel very proud of our special builders here in NZ with their old flat-head V8's and Jag engined contraptions, that could sometimes give these things a run for their money. Always thought the Maserati was a far better car anyway, and I have to wonder why a historian would spend 15 years of his life researching a car that was unloved and clearly a dog. I think I have answered my own question....because he is a [an] Historian!!

[Howard Wood]

The NZ inferiority complex extends to racing cars as well. The best of the NZ specials, from Muriwai beach racing specials to Formula Pacific are every bit as innovative and well built as many other much celebrated marques.

The second Hoare Ferrari was as rough as guts in many ways and not from dodgy repairs either. I have not seen the car since removing the "GTO" body but there is the conundrum for the restorer. Do you replicate, complete with flaws or rebuild as it should have been built (or to 21st century standards)?

Anthony Bamford of JCB fame/ fortune had a '70s F1 Ferrari which he wrapped around a tree "test driving" the thing up the driveway of his stately mansion and John Anderson rebuilt the tub. Subsequently the car was sent to Ferrai for its annual service/ WOF who angrily demanded to know who had been working unauthorised on the car, as the rivets all lined up!

[Milan Fistonic]

A newspaper clipping from when Hoare was trying to sell the car.

4358

[David McKinney]

Wasn't it a cobbled up 'bitsa' with a sports car engine. Apparently was a cantankerous old bitch!!! [sorry thunder427]....it shouldn't have been with a fairly mildly tuned 4 cylinder engine with modest horse-power, compared to a GP. This is where I got ballsed up. Hoare going to Ferrari for a new engine for it and coming home with a complete car, a V12 at that. What a leap of faith....4 cylinders to 12. Now they, could be, and often were cantankerous....the Roycroft car for instance. Maybe it was our mechanics here in NZ who didnt quite understand these things, or maybe not enough money to keep them fresh, but none of these imports ever lived up to their name. Makes me feel very proud of our special builders here in NZ with their old flat-head V8's and Jag engined contraptions, that could sometimes give these things a run for their money. Always thought the Maserati was a far better car anyway, and I have to wonder why a historian would spend 15 years of his life researching a car that was unloved and clearly a dog. I think I have answered my own question....because he is a [an] Historian!!
Hoare raced the 4-cylinder car for three seasons - 1958 in detuned state, and not very competitive, 1959 kept breaking piston rings, 1960 fast and reliable and nearly won the Gold Star
The V12 was also fast and reliable - was second in the Gold Star in 1961 (to D Hulme, 2.5 Cooper-Climax) and won in 1962
Roycroft's problems with his earlier V12 were largely a result of budgetary restraints

[driftwood]

i wonder how much the car was to buy back then and how much a house or mini was etc as a comparable
Im not interestd in the today silly million value thats just rich kids wanting to pee higher up the wall than
the rest of us and we can all build a replica for a lot less

[David McKinney]

Ferrari GP Monoposto 625 Tasman

The Ferrari Register – supplement one, by Dr. Robert B. Marvin:
625 Tasman 1957-1960.....

Ferrari, I Quattro Cilindri:
As its name, the Tasman, indicates, this model was destined for Tasmania, the island in the Pacific, to the South-east of Australia

Hi Peter

I should have picked this up before

The car should not be referred to as a Tasman Ferrari (and certainly never had anything to do with Tasmania...)

Until 1963, the word 'Tasman' was the name of a Dutch explorer and the sea he named between Australia and New Zealand. It was adopted by the organisers of international races in those countries for a new championship ie, the Tasman Series, taking effect in 1964.

And even if there had been a Tasman Series before that, it would still be incorrect to use the term for Hoare's car - be bought it for racing in New Zealand, and never once raced it in Australia

[jamie]

Hi Gang I took some pitc of that same car ai FERRARI Oct 2010 it siill makes my ears ring just looking at it Jamie A

[jamie]

Me Agane and it still has the clear cover over the motor Jamie A

[stubuchanan]

Hi Peter

I should have picked this up before

The car should not be referred to as a Tasman Ferrari (and certainly never had anything to do with Tasmania...)

Until 1963, the word 'Tasman' was the name of a Dutch explorer and the sea he named between Australia and New Zealand. It was adopted by the organisers of international races in those countries for a new championship ie, the Tasman Series, taking effect in 1964.

And even if there had been a Tasman Series before that, it would still be incorrect to use the term for Hoare's car - be bought it for racing in New Zealand, and never once raced it in Australia

The 'Tasmania' reference from "Ferrari, I Quattro Cilindri" may be an incorrect Italian name for Australasia. See attached cover from 'Auto Italiana' 11.1.1968, referring to the Tasman Championship of that year. Their article was a translation of a piece by Eoin Young, and the translator seems to have been confused between Tasmania the island and the Tasman Championship.

Stu

http://s6.postimage.org/mh5sewinl/Auto_Italiana_110168.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[bry3500]

The nose certainly doesn't look right - maybe it's the camera angles
Agree David, the nose looks more tapered..maybe from the Wigram accident rebuild?

[David McKinney]

The 'Tasmania' reference from "Ferrari, I Quattro Cilindri" may be an incorrect Italian name for Australasia. See attached cover from 'Auto Italiana' 11.1.1968, referring to the Tasman Championship of that year. Their article was a translation of a piece by Eoin Young, and the translator seems to have been confused between Tasmania the island and the Tasman Championship.

Stu

http://s6.postimage.org/mh5sewinl/Auto_Italiana_110168.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Nice try, Stu, but why did the earlier reference make the statement that Tasmania was an island to the south-east of Australia? (And in any case, as any fule kno, it's an Australian island to the south-east of the mainland)

[jim short]

its just been put on my facebook its in holland i thought it srashed into a {triumph mayflower}??? at wigram

[bry3500]

its just been put on my facebook its in holland i thought it srashed into a {triumph mayflower}??? at wigram
check post #198
http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?321-Who-What-and-Where/page10

[stubuchanan]

Photographic proof of the continued existence of the Ferrari 625 hybrid(after the 1961 accident) is on page 130 of Vercoe's "Historic Racing Cars...". The car has the permanent number plate 'AQ3343' showing - these plates weren't issued until about 1964/65. In spite of Vercoe's comments the car was rebuilt in NZ and driven at Wigram by Shuter junior(?) in the photo.

Stu

[stubuchanan]

Nice try, Stu, but why did the earlier reference make the statement that Tasmania was an island to the south-east of Australia? (And in any case, as any fule kno, it's an Australian island to the south-east of the mainland)

In support of my statements, I point out that Wikipedia(Italian version) states that the Tasman Sea is known as Mar Tasman or Mar Tasmania in Italian. The Italian writer obviously took the second option and referred to the Tasman Championship as "Il Campionato di Tasmania". How good is your Italian, I could always email you a copy of the magazine article!

Stu