Formula Atlantic/Pacific

[Steve Holmes]

3210

Formula Atlantic was formed in the late 1960s, in the US, under the guise Formula B. The Sports Car Club of America created Formula B to fit between Formula C, for cars with a maximum engine size up to 1100cc, and Formula A, for stock block race cars with a maximum engine size of 5000cc, as part of its new SCCA Grand Prix Championship. Initially, all three classes competed in the same race, but as Formula A rapidly grew in popularity, Formula B became a stand-alone class.

Formula B engine rules required a stock block engine of no larger than 1600cc, for which the Ford twin-cam unit was highly favoured.

Formula B was introduced in England in 1971 by John Webb, as Formula Atlantic. The intention was that Formula Atlantic cars be almost as fast as Formula 2 cars, but cheaper to purchase and run. The Formula Atlantic name was also used in Canada, where a high profile championship was established in 1974, with national television coverage, and the addition of Formula 1 drivers. The International Motor Sport Association (IMSA) then formed a Formula Atlantic championship of its own to run alongside its other categories.

Formula Atlantic was adopted for the Macau Grand Prix in 1977, but under the guise Formula Pacific, and New Zealand replaced the outgoing Formula 5000 with Formula Pacific the same year, while Japan followed suit a year later. In 1979, Australia merged its existing Formula 5000 with Formula Pacific to boost grids, and Formula Pacific would become that countries premier single seater category from 1982.

Formula Atlantic/Pacific chassis’ bore many similarities with F2 and F3 cars, and F2 or F3 chassis’ could easily be adapted for Formula Atlantic, but several manufacturers built chassis’ specifically for the formula. Engine choices in the early years were limited to the Ford twin-cam, but this was soon replaced by the BDA, and BDD, etc, and eventually the Toyota. The mid-1970s saw a raft of different makes of chassis, but eventually the Ralt RT4, based on the 1979 RT2, would come to dominate the category, as likewise, the American Swift DB4 would do several years later.

Formula Atlantic cars remain some of the best looking of all formula cars. The class became synonymous with its screaming BDA/BDD soundtrack, and aggressive cut and thrust driving, as it was established very much as a platform for young aspiring drivers with Formula 1 ambitions, and Formula Atlantic/Pacific proved an important stepping stone for many who reached the very top level of the sport.

[TonyG]

Found these shots today. This is from the year that Mike Thackwell and Andrea De Cesaris raced in NZ over the xmas period and while testing a week or so earlier at Pukekohe, De Crasherus had a bit of an oops at Railway corner.
They were not worried about my mate and I sitting on the marshalls post watching until one realised I had a camera. Then they tried to intimidate us into handing the camera over (we were only at High School) but we shot through and jumped over the fence onto the railway tracks to get away lol.
I was tempted at the time to take the film to the local paper but chickened out.
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/AndreaDeCesaris2-2.jpg

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/AndreaDeCesaris-2.jpg

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/AndreaDeCesaris3-2.jpg

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/AndreaDeCesaris4-2.jpg

Not sure if this was the same year or not but;
Davy Jones
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/DavyJones.jpg

[Steve Holmes]

Hey those are fantastic pics Tony! Thanks for moving them across to here. Did de Cesaris race after doing this?

[Howard Wood]

3223

322432253226

[Howard Wood]

I can't figure how to insert text, so in explanation, some photos of my March 742 Atlantic car Jan 1977.

Photo #1 In the paddock area at Puke, car owner John Anderson standing behind the car.

Photo #2 Driver's parade before Wigram. My best guess is from the right: 1. Keke Rosberg, 4 Richard Melville, 5 Dave McMillan, 6 Tom Gloy, 9 Steve Millen?, 10 Andrew Miedeke, 11 Alan Crocker and me 12 facing backwards on the truck deck. Any ideas on the rest?

Photo #3 First round Bay Park, not sure if it is a race or practice, cars behind are Dave Saunders' March 75B and Ross Stone's Cuda.

Photo #4 On the grid at Wigram, Steve Emson, Modus alongside, Steve Millen, Chevron behind and Ross Stone, Cuda alongside him.

[David McKinney]

From right (with a bit of guessing): Rosberg, Bruce Allison, Steve Emson, Melville, McMillan, Gloy, Beng Saswanto, Ross Stone, Larry Perkins, Millen, Miedecke, Crocker, Wood

[TonyG]

Hey those are fantastic pics Tony! Thanks for moving them across to here. Did de Cesaris race after doing this?

Yes as this was about 10 days before they raced anywhere that season. They were testing early.

[Howard Wood]

David,

Larry P did not race here in 1977, I am pretty sure he was still in the frame for the BRM F1 drive then, only problem was the car wasn't race ready! If you look closely, my overalls and helmet are from the outfitting he was given by BRM. He and Greg "Peewee" Siddle first came to NZ for Jan 1978.

From the grid sheet on www.oldracingcars.com if your list is otherwise corect, and I think you are on the money, missing are Kozarowitsky, John Nicholson, David Oxton and Albert Poon. These are photos I retrieved from the deepest corner of the cupboard yesterday so the memory is a bit hazy.

[David McKinney]

You're right about Perkins (How could I?)
I'd already made a list of The Missing - was the photo taken before or after Graham Baker's accident?

[kiwi285]

Here are some photos from my stash

[http://i53.tinypic.com/2cojtpd.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/149418l.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2w5rggx.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/33pghgy.jpg

[kiwi285]

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ngwp49.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/29xht8k.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/zw15wy.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2qajl1j.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/spg27b.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/b9ion9.jpg

[Howard Wood]

You're right about Perkins (How could I?)
I'd already made a list of The Missing - was the photo taken before or after Graham Baker's accident?

David,

I have to admit to needing to refer back to Oldracingcars.com because I can't remember. According to their list, missing from the main/ full series runners at Wigram are Graham Baker and Ken Smith.

Kenny had an accident at Teretonga, was his damage too bad to be repaired for Wigram?
Where and when did Baker have an accident?

[Steve Holmes]

I can't figure how to insert text, so in explanation, some photos of my March 742 Atlantic car Jan 1977.

Photo #1 In the paddock area at Puke, car owner John Anderson standing behind the car.

Photo #2 Driver's parade before Wigram. My best guess is from the right: 1. Keke Rosberg, 4 Richard Melville, 5 Dave McMillan, 6 Tom Gloy, 9 Steve Millen?, 10 Andrew Miedeke, 11 Alan Crocker and me 12 facing backwards on the truck deck. Any ideas on the rest?

Photo #3 First round Bay Park, not sure if it is a race or practice, cars behind are Dave Saunders' March 75B and Ross Stone's Cuda.

Photo #4 On the grid at Wigram, Steve Emson, Modus alongside, Steve Millen, Chevron behind and Ross Stone, Cuda alongside him.

Hey Howard, thats a really slick looking race car. The Cibie Lighting sponsorship looks 'big-time' too! Though I'm guessing it probably wasn't. Did you race this car anywhere other than NZ? Is this the same car pictured in post #11 above with Ken Smith?

[Steve Holmes]

Here are some photos from my stash

[http://i53.tinypic.com/2cojtpd.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/149418l.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2w5rggx.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/33pghgy.jpg

Nice work Mike, good to get all these photos together in one place. I'm sure there are a few more of yours scattered about too?

[kiwi285]

http://i55.tinypic.com/2469npd.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/m0f8k.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/hx7wcn.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/t6cf41.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/25hif4m.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/20583d3.jpg

[kiwi285]

http://i53.tinypic.com/29d78ti.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2vc9kk4.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/29y5w6s.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2wrky8k.jpg

[Howard Wood]

Hey Howard, thats a really slick looking race car. The Cibie Lighting sponsorship looks 'big-time' too! Though I'm guessing it probably wasn't. Did you race this car anywhere other than NZ? Is this the same car pictured in post #11 above with Ken Smith?

The Cibie story probably belongs in "yards and Yarns". Cibie was distributed by Alex Harvey Agencies, a division of AHI, run by a wild Australian/ Irishman called Brendon Maloney with NZ rally legend Mike Marshall as sales manager. Needless to say their entertainment budget around the sponsorship would have dwarfed what I got but every bit counts.

My deal with the car and engine owners was; I will fund the running cost, to be covered by NZIG start money plus prize money (as you could in those days if you were frugal and didn't poke it in the wall) and you guys will get a profit on selling the car and spares in NZ at the end of the series. It was mission accomplished all round as the car was sold to Reg Cook as soon as the series finished.

The car looked quite nice but was actually the 1974 March pre production mule, we updated the bodywork to '76 specs from moulds I took from a replica March F1 car being part of a grid of cars we built for the world's most forgettable movie called Bobby Deerfield. We also bought the latest rear wing and a spares package from an ex Brabham mate of John's who had been running Eddie Cheever in F2 called Ron Dennis!

The car pictured with Kenny and Richard Melville is Richard's 76B, which was like Kenny's and Lawrence's car above, a genuine car but that is the same bodywork as our's.

[Steve Holmes]

Ahhh, thanks Howard. Have you ever wondered what happened to the car? Whether it still exists? I love the stories that are connected with these cars. This is the stuff you didn't get to read in magazines. Did you have any connections with March?

[David McKinney]

David,
Kenny had an accident at Teretonga, was his damage too bad to be repaired for Wigram?
Where and when did Baker have an accident?
Without checking too deeply, Smith was a 'dna' at Wigram
Baker's accident was on the right-hand sweeper after the Hairpin - piled into one of those huge marker-tyres borrowed from earth-moving machinery and wrote off his Birrana. From memory, in practice

[PhotoSmith]

Alternative use of an ageing F/Pacific.......
Tom Donovan 1983 NZ Hillclimb Champion in his Modified March 77b
2 day Event based in Rotorua - 1st Gravel Road - Penny Road,
2nd Day Tarmac - Ngongotaha Hill.

[PhotoSmith]

The most important modification for the Gravel day was a Sheet of Plywood
fixed to the underside, that went full lenfth of the tub.

[PhotoSmith]

Photos from 1980-81 Season......
David Oxton - RT4 - pukekohe march '81
Graeme Lawrence -March 80A from the same meeting.
Does anyone know Who & what the Sleepyhead #5 in the background is.

Cheers
Martin Smith.

[David McKinney]

It's the Cuda JR5, isn't it?

[bob homewood]

David ,yes I have just been scratching my head on the year,was that when Adrian Reynard came out and drove it ?

[bob homewood]

Adrian Reynard drove it in 1981 ,but at Pukekohe only ,from memory they had some sort of problem,gearbox ? at Manfield in practice and didn't take any further part in the meeting .I am sure that is when it ran the Sleepyhead signage and also when the side pods were changed ?

[TonyG]

Wow great memories and history in those shots.
What happened to the Cuda ?
Last of my Pacific shots that I have saved.
Hopefully a clearer shot of Davy Jones
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img115-1.jpg

Lt Mike Thackwell, Rt David Brabham
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img116-1.jpg

Chris Kniefel
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img119-1.jpg

Mike Greenfield
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img117-1.jpg

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img118-1.jpg

[Howard Wood]

Ahhh, thanks Howard. Have you ever wondered what happened to the car? Whether it still exists? I love the stories that are connected with these cars. This is the stuff you didn't get to read in magazines. Did you have any connections with March?

What hapened to the car is it got used as a hill climb car at Rotorua!

We sold the car to Reg Cook who did the North Island races of the 1978 International series, and I guess some Gold Star rounds prior, then it sat unused in his shop for quite a while before Tom Donovan bought it. I see it is described as a 77B as used by Donovan and this is one of the issues for historians trying to trace March history as updates were easy to do with the car then often passed off as something newer. March themselves were as much to blame as anyone, our car chassis 742-U1 being the pre production mule was probably built up from one of March's damaged tub exchange trade ins, used to test and jig for the 1974 series cars then given a new identity and sold on.

And, no I didn't have any March connections, they were only interested in people with money! We bought the car through Dave Price racing in the UK where it had been used by stunt driver Val Musetti who had a pair of Marches which he ran variously in Atlantic, F2 and even F5000 guise with a 3litre Ford V6 and interchanged parts and possibly even chassis plates between them. So even being sure of its history was uncertain in 1976.

Despite its doubtful parentage it went quite well, the biggest issue we had was that our car and the Moduses of John Nicholson and Phil Sharp were late arriving in NZ because the ship broke down en-route then Graeme Lawrence the distributor of the Goodyear control tyre had also had delivery issues so we were only able to pre-race test on the old Goodyear G44s that had come with the car. It went really well on those but when we bolted on the NZ control tyre for round one at Bay Park it was a different car and it took until round 3 at Manfield to sort the setup.

[Howard Wood]

32873288328932903291

[Howard Wood]

Ok, this is the last of my photos I promise!

After running the March in 1977 we were offered the opportunity to develop a new Atlantic car for Lyncar. At the time Lyncar were a race car fabrication/ maching/ preparation operation but owner Martin Slater wanted to break into the manufacturing side. He had already built a number of one offs including an Atlantic car with which NZer John Nicholson had won the British Atlantic championship.

He had a completely new car drawn up by a former McLaren draftsman whose name escapes me now and John Anderson and I built the prototype, jigs, moulds etc. Unlike the March, Ralt etc opposition the car was quite a complicated design with inboard rocker suspension front and rear. In fact it was so complicated (and the detail design work was still being done as we were building it) that the project ran horribly over time. The original plan was to thoroughly test in the UK and then run a full "works" operation in NZ for Jan '78 but in reality we only ran a short shakedown test at Goodwood before shipping the car to NZ. Photo 3 is at Goodwood with Martin Slater on the right, John A at rear and the designer left, trying to identify the brake issue we had all day.

At the end of the first real day's testing at Puke late Dec, with no major issues, we bolted on a fresh set of tyres to scrub them in. Coming up to the braking point for the first time at the chicane on top of the hill (now thankfully gone), the left front tyre split from the rim sending the car careering along the bank to end up in photo 5. Needless to say, neither the car nor I were involved in the '78 series!

[David McKinney]

Funny, I always imagined that car was red

Then I remembered a second car was completed, and contested the 1979 series. Maybe that's where I'm getting the red from

Incidentally, the earlier Lyncar models had MS prefixes, no doubt in honour of Martin Slater, but the later car was the LA78. Are those initials a clue to the designer's name?

[Howard Wood]

LA = Lyncar Atlantic I think. The designer is not fondly remembered by Martin either as unknown to any of us, he was up to no good with Martin's wife at the time which possibly explains the lateness of the detail drawings!

As the car was under NZ customs bond, there bring no intent to sell the car here but to campaign it in US/ Canada, the remains were swept into a box and re exported. I guess Martin figured the accident was simply error on my part as they built a new car with what little was left to exactly the same design. This car, which as you correctly recall was red was sent to US/Canada on a sales mission where it was tested by all the front running teams.

Unfortunately it was a couple of seconds off the pace with everyone who tried it so there were no takers until exactly the same front wheel failure happened with Price Cobb at the wheel. Fortunately no damage to car or driver but it did mean a change to the wheel design by Martin. The car was then sent out to NZ for me to drive in the '79 NZ series. The less said about that the better.

Without getting too technical, the car suffered from poor turn in and low speed exit traction which, partially with hindsight, was due to its narrow track. That was the trend for production F3 and Atlantic cars of the period in order to tuck the wheels and bulky suspension behind the full width nose. This car with its delta front wing over a chisel nose and inboard suspension could have run a wider track without compromising straight line speed exactly as is the trend today. Unfortunately, although we knew this, the complicated design made quick modifications impossible. There is much to be said for the Ron Tauranac bolt on brackets which are easy to change!

[Steve Holmes]

What hapened to the car is it got used as a hill climb car at Rotorua!

We sold the car to Reg Cook who did the North Island races of the 1978 International series, and I guess some Gold Star rounds prior, then it sat unused in his shop for quite a while before Tom Donovan bought it. I see it is described as a 77B as used by Donovan and this is one of the issues for historians trying to trace March history as updates were easy to do with the car then often passed off as something newer. March themselves were as much to blame as anyone, our car chassis 742-U1 being the pre production mule was probably built up from one of March's damaged tub exchange trade ins, used to test and jig for the 1974 series cars then given a new identity and sold on.

And, no I didn't have any March connections, they were only interested in people with money! We bought the car through Dave Price racing in the UK where it had been used by stunt driver Val Musetti who had a pair of Marches which he ran variously in Atlantic, F2 and even F5000 guise with a 3litre Ford V6 and interchanged parts and possibly even chassis plates between them. So even being sure of its history was uncertain in 1976.

Despite its doubtful parentage it went quite well, the biggest issue we had was that our car and the Moduses of John Nicholson and Phil Sharp were late arriving in NZ because the ship broke down en-route then Graeme Lawrence the distributor of the Goodyear control tyre had also had delivery issues so we were only able to pre-race test on the old Goodyear G44s that had come with the car. It went really well on those but when we bolted on the NZ control tyre for round one at Bay Park it was a different car and it took until round 3 at Manfield to sort the setup.

Thanks Howard, the reason I asked if you were connected to March was because you said the car was a pre-production mule. I thought maybe you were the first to test and race it, but obviously that wasn't the case. So this must be the car Photosmith has posted above in the Odlins green colour? Does it still exist?

[Steve Holmes]

Ok, this is the last of my photos I promise!

After running the March in 1977 we were offered the opportunity to develop a new Atlantic car for Lyncar. At the time Lyncar were a race car fabrication/ maching/ preparation operation but owner Martin Slater wanted to break into the manufacturing side. He had already built a number of one offs including an Atlantic car with which NZer John Nicholson had won the British Atlantic championship.

He had a completely new car drawn up by a former McLaren draftsman whose name escapes me now and John Anderson and I built the prototype, jigs, moulds etc. Unlike the March, Ralt etc opposition the car was quite a complicated design with inboard rocker suspension front and rear. In fact it was so complicated (and the detail design work was still being done as we were building it) that the project ran horribly over time. The original plan was to thoroughly test in the UK and then run a full "works" operation in NZ for Jan '78 but in reality we only ran a short shakedown test at Goodwood before shipping the car to NZ. Photo 3 is at Goodwood with Martin Slater on the right, John A at rear and the designer left, trying to identify the brake issue we had all day.

At the end of the first real day's testing at Puke late Dec, with no major issues, we bolted on a fresh set of tyres to scrub them in. Coming up to the braking point for the first time at the chicane on top of the hill (now thankfully gone), the left front tyre split from the rim sending the car careering along the bank to end up in photo 5. Needless to say, neither the car nor I were involved in the '78 series!

The Lyncar is a good looking car. The narrow track is quite visible in some of those shots you've posted. Interesting front wing. I guess you couldn't adjust its angle in any way? Did Lyncar design and manufacture its own wheels?

I'm loving these stories Howard, even if some of the results weren't what you wanted at the time, the stories are just as fascinating and enjoyable to read.

[Howard Wood]

Thanks Steve, I was unsure how much detail to include, technical detail is not riveting to everyone.

Yes, the wheels were centre locks to their own design. Pattern making and casting alloy for race cars (and other applications) was one of Lyncar's specialties.

The front wing, and a rear wing (but not the one in the photo which is alloy) were delta shaped and female moulded using a technique I developed. I laid up a wafer thin fibreglass skin in the mould then poured 2 pot foam into the cavity which made an accurate, rigid and incredibly light wing section. The front wing was adjustable for angle while the 'glass rear one was a two piece with both sections adjustable.

[Steve Holmes]

Howard, the more info the better! You got to experience something most motorsport enthusiasts didn't so your stories are fascinating.

How cool is that, you designed the wings on that car. How did the front wing adjust? It may just be the angle of the photos you attached but it looks fixed to the nose. Did it actually sit above the nose? How did the straight line speed of this car compare with the competition? The clean shape and narrow track must have helped with this? Although I'm guessing if it suffered traction problems exiting corners this would have masked straight line performance?

[Lee Tracey]

GP 1982
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0025.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0029.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0028.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0026.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0027.jpg
Memory says either Charlie O'Brien or Dave McMillan (citizen but notusual #) but hey we all know what the memory is worth :)

Cheers
Lee

[Lee Tracey]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0034.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0074.jpg
Steve Millen

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0033.jpg
Roberto Moreno

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0035.jpg
Whoever is not in the above post

Cheers
Lee

[Lee Tracey]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0018.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0017.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0016.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0015.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0014.jpg
Action? at the Hairpin

Cheers
Lee

[Lee Tracey]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0012.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0011.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0010.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0009.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0008.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0007.jpg

Cheers
Lee

[Lee Tracey]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0006.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0005.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0001.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0073.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG_0072.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/leetra/Puke%2082/IMG.jpg

Cheers
Lee

[Howard Wood]

Howard, the more info the better! You got to experience something most motorsport enthusiasts didn't so your stories are fascinating.

How cool is that, you designed the wings on that car. How did the front wing adjust? It may just be the angle of the photos you attached but it looks fixed to the nose. Did it actually sit above the nose? How did the straight line speed of this car compare with the competition? The clean shape and narrow track must have helped with this? Although I'm guessing if it suffered traction problems exiting corners this would have masked straight line performance?

The wing set up was inspired by the then current F1 Ferrari 312T. The wing sat above and slightly ahead of the nose cone on an adjustable alloy bracket.

You're absolutely right about corner exit speed affecting straight line speed, how often do you hear drivers complaining about a lack of power when it is actually a lack of exit speed? I think the Lyncar was pretty good through the air but also on a non ground effects wing car the amount of downforce you are running will dramatically affect top end speed. If the setup is off its too easy to add more downforce in compensation.

[Rod Grimwood]

More info on this car shortly, just found some (old) photos, Robin Irving in his just rebuilt Modus and yours truly after extracting it from his rumpis room under his house.

[Steve Holmes]

The wing set up was inspired by the then current F1 Ferrari 312T. The wing sat above and slightly ahead of the nose cone on an adjustable alloy bracket.

You're absolutely right about corner exit speed affecting straight line speed, how often do you hear drivers complaining about a lack of power when it is actually a lack of exit speed? I think the Lyncar was pretty good through the air but also on a non ground effects wing car the amount of downforce you are running will dramatically affect top end speed. If the setup is off its too easy to add more downforce in compensation.

Yep, thats right, and a lot of people try to overcome a lack of good handling with more horsepower, which tends to make the situation even worse.

I can see now how that front wing was separate from the bodywork. Very nice design!

[PhotoSmith]

From the top......
Brian Hartley -Pukekohe,
David Oxton - Pukekohe
Grant Campbell - Baypark,
Steve Milen - Manfield,
Eric Morgan - Baypark,
Radisich - Pukekohe.

[PhotoSmith]

Dave McMillan - RT1 - pukekohe
Roberto Moreno - Baypark
Charlie O'Brien - Pukekohe
Mike Rosen - Baypark
Steve Cameron - Baypark,
Dave McMillan - RT4 - Baypark

[Steve Holmes]

From the top......
Brian Hartley -Pukekohe,
David Oxton - Pukekohe
Grant Campbell - Baypark,
Steve Milen - Manfield,
Eric Morgan - Baypark,
Radisich - Pukekohe.

What sort of car is the red #19, 3rd pic down?

[PhotoSmith]

Chevron B39

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks. Nice looking car.

[Milan Fistonic]

Alan Crocker at Pukekohe


3309

[David McKinney]

That's a rare one, Milan

[Howard Wood]

Milan and David,

That photo really got me thinking. Alan's car was a genuine 74B being the Wella car that Ted Wentz won for winning the British Wella FF championship the previous year. Mid season Wentz swaped to a Lola and Alan bought the car, I would guess in early 1975, and ran some British Atlantic races in it before bringing it to NZ for the Jan '77 series.

The standard 74B has a front radiator and very steeply angled cockpit profile and this is how Alan ran it in the UK and I thought here in 1976, until seeing this photo. I now recall an infamous flight from UK to here with Alan where he carried a complete cockpit surround with him as hand luggage, having convinced the airline staff that it was a priceless and fragile "art work". To add to the confusion, I had a spare clutch assembly and ignition spark box in my hand luggage as well (try doing that with today's airport security) so we caused a little mayhem everywhere we went!

Anyway, this was presumably to convert the car to later specs as in Milan's photo. I suppose he used my moulds but have no recollection at all and would have sworn that car remained as a 74B. Kenny S bought the car from Alan, primarily because it was such a genuine unmolested example.

[Rod Grimwood]

Here are a couple more of the Modus with Robin Irving This is before the experiments with new under floor and rear wing along with side pods. As seen Robin soon found out the traction limits on first peactice run.

[Rod Grimwood]

After first season of fun, Robin decided to try for some improvement and found it after a lot of fabrication and playing with settings. We were all learning as we went, and it put us in stead for things that we played with later.
Note adaption of RT1 wing along with other bits like reshaped nose, side pods, and underneath alot of work was done for air flow and down force etc. The times did change a bit but Robin was arealist and new it was just a fun car and was never going to be in the front half of field. He went more for mileage and experience which he hoped to put into use in future plans. Robin was a fairly handy peddler and had done very well in tin tops before this adventure.
This car was a good excuse for us to dissapear down south for a couple of weeks each Xmas ( now thats another story ) with the other boys and teams.

[Rod Grimwood]

photos

[Milan Fistonic]

Even more drastic modifications were made to the Modus that Robbie Francevic drove.

From this


3323



to this


3322

[Rod Grimwood]

A little action on the start line at Puke, thankfully no one was hurt.

[Rod Grimwood]

As above

[Steve Holmes]

Phenomenal series of photos here Rod. The driver of car 25 is really lucky. There is no sign of his roll bar anywhere, looks like it got torn off as the car went over.

[Howard Wood]

Phenomenal series of photos here Rod. The driver of car 25 is really lucky. There is no sign of his roll bar anywhere, looks like it got torn off as the car went over.

I assume that is the Dave Saunders accident. If so, the car was a March 722 which were hardly the strongest tub around (and you can take "tub" however you want). The roll bar is visible lying against the side pod in front of the rad, not a good look.
Note the groundskeeper's trusty Trekka in the background ready for a speedy (?) response. Some aspects of motorsport have improved!

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes it was Dave Saunders, he tangled with Mr Morgan and that is the roll bar beside the car.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks guys, yeah that is scary! He is lucky it didn't go over another time, or land on its lid. Pretty decent sized crowd!

Boy those Trekka's were special weren't they!

[Rod Grimwood]

Some photos of promo night for release of Chardon sponsorship. We put big slab of foam in pool and surrounded it with ice, a lot of shovelling and barrowing with Steve wheeling a couple of loads in and it seems those black shorts appear again, I did have about 3 pair of them. Car had dummy engine in it to help with weight etc.
Photos not best but gives idea of promotion.

[Steve Holmes]

Wonderful photos Rod. I've seen a few different shots from that launch. It was very clever, and looked fantastic. And boy was that ever the 70s! Has any decade in history been so ott? I love it.

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes Steve the 70's short short's, longish hair, etc. even the guy's. found some more photos which explain why we did it, not necessarily in order but close.

[Rod Grimwood]

Sorry got it wrong again, kind of start from the bottom and work up, you get what i mean.

[David McKinney]

Don't recall Morgan being involved, but Rex Hart certainly was. When I get a mo' I'll dig out my report

[bob homewood]

Boy those Trekka's were special weren't they![/QUOTE]
Steve a bit of trivia I guess but when they started building those Trekkas here ,they put a locally made LSD in them ,that Ray Stone and Merv Mayo developed

[Shano]

Is that launch at the Mon Desir? Certainly looks like the pool. Ah, Friday nights at the Mon....

[Rod Grimwood]

Thought there were 3 involved, maybe Rex Hart was the other I think Morgan only got clipped and stopped quick on inside. We were on pit fence when it happened and i can remember Tom Donovan and Robin Irving going in separate ways to miss it and the other 2 down middle of track. Amazing to see how far they went considering it was the start and they hit after only a very short distance. Wish my mind was like yours David don't know how you can remember all info, but is good to have a mobile computor, library, onsite and handy.
Cheers.

[Rod Grimwood]

Actually this is what it was all about. NZ Grand Prix and that neat Trophy. this series was to finish with a real sour note when a "Rotten" person pulled one of his well known tricks. He was very lucky he was in hideing when we returned to pits later, think someone knew to move him.

[Rod Grimwood]

This is result. He went onto repeat performances in Europe were he was known for it.
This was a very long time ago but it still rankles in my system as we were right there and saw it all. So blatant.

[Rod Grimwood]

An engineer did a test on the roll bar and worked it out that to tweak it like that would have taken around 80 tons pressure, so in reality the tub, roll bar stood up pretty well for what it went through. Ralts were very well designed and built cars.

[seaqnmac27]

Hmmm, also had a F1 career

[Rod Grimwood]

Pretty short

[seaqnmac27]

Yeah well Zakspeed and Spirit hardly F1 cutting edge, plus methinks he paid for the drives. Ironically he managed Verstappen, enough said?

[rogered]

what happened to the car?
rebuilt or was it stuffed?

[Rod Grimwood]

I understand that Steve bought the car back in the States awhile back and rebuilt it and it is painted that green and he runs it in classic events occasionally, got photo somewhere of car after rebuild.
Yea he had family money and I did notice he was managing Verstappen, so he is still involved and hopefully can assist some young fellow in a career.

[Rod Grimwood]

Sorry rogered, yes the car was rebuilt. it was used in the next year series and was used for the filming of "Smash Palace" Steve also had good results that year with a win and lap record in the second heat of the NZGP being a highlight. He had a gentle rollover again down south but this was different situation with a racing tangle with another top NZ competitor Dave McMillan.
Dave was a good hard/fast driver and it was always good to watch him, Dave Oxton, Kenny Smith, and Steve tussle it out.

[rogered]

http://blog.stillen.com/steve-millen-racing-heritage/
just found this, (assuming i have attached it correctly)
Was this the same chassis as the smash palace car?

[rogered]

http://blog.stillen.com/steve-millen-racing-heritage/

[seaqnmac27]

I understand that Steve bought the car back in the States awhile back and rebuilt it and it is painted that green and he runs it in classic events occasionally, got photo somewhere of car after rebuild.
Yea he had family money and I did notice he was managing Verstappen, so he is still involved and hopefully can assist some young fellow in a career.


Guided him to Bennetton as team mate to Schumacher, had unfortunate collision with Brundle, Irvine and Bernard, he was blamed even though it transpired later that Brundle had broken the driveshaft of the McLaren. He ended up getting ditched and sent of to Simtek by Bennetton, replaced by JJ Lehto. But the mistake aparently from your mate was to sign his lad to Bennetton in the first place, he had an offer to be Hakkinen's teammate, the drive ended up going to Brundle.

[Steve Holmes]

Awesome thread here guys, keep it going!

[David McKinney]

The Millen RT1 was (unsurprisingly) retubbed between its Pukekohe accident and the 1980 Asian races

[Rod Grimwood]

Seaqnmac27: thanks for info, Verstappen was tops in formula 3 before this wasn't he, remember seeing him in some european championship. Good info. What ever happened to him, is he still driving, suppose in that game if you don't get the right break at the time things change in a hurry.

[Steve Holmes]

There was a documentary some years ago about either the Millen bros or Roger Donaldson, in which Steve Millen was interviewed at a historic racing event in the US. He was racing one of his old cars, which I assume was the one above? It was painted a modern bright purple from memory. He said he had to get someone else to go buy it for him, for fear of the price escalating if he went to do the haggling himself.

But boy it sure was pretty in the Chardon colour scheme.

[seaqnmac27]

Didn't Verstappen race in NZ in FVee at some stage??

[Steve Holmes]

This is the 1981 Australian Grand Prix, held at Calder Park. The race features Alan Jones, Roberto Moreno, Nelson Piquet, John Bowe, Larry Perkins, Bruce Allison, Ray Mallock, Jaques Laffite, Andrew Miedecke, David Oxton, Charlie O'Brien, Geoff Brabham, our own Roaring Season member Lucio Cesario etc. By this stage Formula Atlantic/Pacific had become Formula Ralt RT4, and 13 of the 21 starters were RT4s, and all the front running cars.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtU74gItU5Q

[Steve Holmes]

Part 2.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgYT0JbG5N0&feature=related

[Steve Holmes]

Part 3.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1aoKuRRGnM&feature=related

[Steve Holmes]

Part 4.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btBa1nt_gqw&feature=related

[seaqnmac27]

In reference to Lyncar, I know its not quite a Pacific, but this may be of interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQnhERT8mUo&feature=related

[BMCBOY]

I was fortunate to be able to take a good number of shots of these great cars and drivers. Often very good close racing too.
427042694268426742714272

[BMCBOY]

427342744275427642774278

[Michael Clark]

That shot of Kenny and Oxo turning left at Puke brings back memories - what a race! I watched from the bank on the inside of the corner and this was a classic example of two drivers who trusted each other going wheel to wheel. I've spoken to both of them about that race in recent years and both recall it with great affection.

By the way - was there ever a better colour scheme for a Ralt RT4 than the blue Pye livery of #18?

[GD66]

Not so far! That did look good. Pacific/Atlantic had its' detractors (what's new ?) but without it, we may not have been privileged to see The Great Rosberg, Rahal, Fabi, Jones, Berg and co, and a fleet of upwardly-mobile Anzacs. Let alone the squad of mechanics, managers and gophers able to get a toe in the door overseas....

[David McKinney]

That shot of Kenny and Oxo turning left at Puke brings back memories - what a race! I watched from the bank on the inside of the corner and this was a classic example of two drivers who trusted each other going wheel to wheel. I've spoken to both of them about that race in recent years and both recall it with great affection.
I agree with everything you say, except that I spoke to them both immediately after what, for me, had been one of the best races I'd seen (I was in what passed for a press box - the grandstand opposite the pits)

[Michael Clark]

And not forgetting Roberto Moreno GD66...or Danny Sullivan.

David my personal list of great Pacific races would include, in no particular order:

Bay Park January 1978 - Millen v Rosberg
Pukekohe long track - Smith v Oxton
1982 NZGP - Moreno v Millen

[Shano]

And how many know that Tom Blackaller brought his Pacific car out here to drive in 1983 or 84? He was one of the top America's Cup skippers and the one who was responsible for starting the "why would you build a 12 metre in fibreglass unless you wanted to cheat" scandal.

"OOh Dennis, I wouldn't have said that," said TB having led Conner into it then neatly sidestepping, leaving Conner to wade into the muck. Very well done politically and of course a defining moment in NZ's sailing history.

TB died of a heart attack driving a Pacific car in 1989, a sad loss of a great character. One of those people who brought colour into sport and one who loved driving his Pacific car as much as sailing.

[Rod Grimwood]

It bought out some characters alright. One with different coloured hair who liked to play with fire sprinklers, Mr Flux was a hard case. And as you say Shano, Blackaller was a very handy driver as well as a skipper. Another who went on to Formula 1 was Andrea De Cesaris. The Pacific era bought some very talented people to our shores and also gave some of our talent exposure against the best, and this most certainly helped them in later years with career paths, both drivers and mechanics/team people.

[RogerH]

TB died of a heart attack driving a Pacific car in 1989, a sad loss of a great character. One of those people who brought colour into sport and one who loved driving his Pacific car as much as sailing.

I think Tom died practicing for a IMSA race in a Swift DB2 Sports 2000. A very colourful man.

[Shano]

Roger: My mistake, I should know better than to make assumptions like that.

From Wikipedia: Later in 1989, Blackaller entered a Swift Engineering DB2 Sports 2000 with Sonoma County (California)-based Pfeiffer Ridge Racing for the IMSA 300 Kilometer race to be held at nearby Sears Point Raceway (now Infineon Raceway), on 10 September of that year.

Blackaller suffered a heart attack while practicing for that race.

[Michael Clark]

I'm looking at the photo of Millen in the Tullen sponsored RT4 (I watched it being built one evening in the Millen basement in Browns Bay) and trying to figure out #17.

Old Racing Cars says 'Robbie Hislop - March 74B' - hello London!

[bob homewood]

Not so far! That did look good. Pacific/Atlantic had its' detractors (what's new ?) but without it, we may not have been privileged to see The Great Rosberg, Rahal, Fabi, Jones, Berg and co, and a fleet of upwardly-mobile Anzacs. Let alone the squad of mechanics, managers and gophers able to get a toe in the door overseas....

The sad thing was the class gained some support and momentum and then it faded and was gone ,a real pity as it was achievable to compete in and something to aim at ,I for one was sorry that it went before I got the chance to run in it

[David McKinney]

I'm looking at the photo of Millen in the Tullen sponsored RT4 (I watched it being built one evening in the Millen basement in Browns Bay) and trying to figure out #17.

Old Racing Cars says 'Robbie Hislop - March 74B' - hello London!

Mmeory's gone on that one, and I don't have programmes that modern

Don't recall the 74B being rebodied in that configuration. I'd go for Steve Cameron in the Cuda JR5 (but wouldn't pout a lot of money on it)

[Michael Clark]

I thought the JR5 too - pale blue and sponsored by an aircraft broker at Ardmore. I know anything is possible but I'm not sure how you turn a March 74B into something that looks like that!

[bob homewood]

I thought the JR5 too - pale blue and sponsored by an aircraft broker at Ardmore. I know anything is possible but I'm not sure how you turn a March 74B into something that looks like that!

Michael ,Robbie Hislop,I think that was just a conventional March 74B ,I have just been trying to tie it up with a year ,I think he was the chap whose mechanic came around to my shop and got me to check and try and sort out the problems they were having with the ignition system ,etc over the Bay Park / Pukekohe time one year ,the rest of that story belongs in Yard and Yarns !

[Rod Grimwood]

#17 also notice Fiat sponsor across bottom of windscreen cowl. Didn't Gary Pedersen have tie up with Fiat dealership.

[PhotoSmith]

notes scribbled on the rear of this photo.........
Robbie Hislop - March 74b - Baypark - New Years meeting 1982

[Milan Fistonic]

From Motoraction

Former FF driver Robbie Hyslop was making his Pacific debut in his own car. This had started its New Zealand career in the hands of Alan Crocker, and then passed into the hands of Kenny Smith, for whom Ken Sager and Robbie Booth drove it on occasions. Although basically a 74B, the car had been fitted with ground-effects side-pods and a shovel nose, and looked rather reminiscent of the Ehrlich which Ian Flux raced here a couple of years ago. The car is yellow, and sponsored by Frosty Boy ice-cream and National Mutual. Before Bay Park it had done only a few shake-down laps at Pukekohe

[bob homewood]

Milan its coming back now ,I remember the Frosty Boy signage, the chap who was working on this car at that time worked in a engineering shop in Avondale, Auckland.He had worked with PDL in Christchurch before coming north,I think he went off to the USA and did something in motor racing over there after this ,I remember him returning the following Christmas and dropping into the shop and catching up with us

[Michael Clark]

Great detective work Milan - as I said earlier..anything is possible!

[Howard Wood]

In which case it is the car pictured in Milan's post #49 several pages ago. As noted, a genuine 74B, bought new by Wella for Ted Wentz to run in the two UK Atlantic series.

[David McKinney]

Thanks Milan - the memory's not what it was :o

[Michael Clark]

Where is that car now I wonder?

[David McKinney]

It was sold (presumably by Ken Smith) to someone in Oz who wanted the bits to rebuild a 732. When the 732 was sold about five years ago what was left of the 74B went with it. I'm told the 74B tub exists

[bigbanger]

The more I look at the #17 rebodied March 74B, the more I'm convinced it's the same car that Tony Batchelor of Christchurch ran in SI Formula Libre and I think the Lady Wigram Trophy from around 1985 to 1988.

Does this ring bells with anybody else?

[David McKinney]

Yes, the car went to Tony Batchelor and then Keith Laney
Although the Hislop body didn't ring any bells, the same shape when Batchelor had the car in 1983 does...

[Sorekiwi]

I thought I would share an album of photographs I came across today, Atlantic Racing in the US and Canada in the 70's and early 80's. Some awesome photographs there. A few kiwi's are present, Allan McCall (and his Tui's), Dave McMillan and David Oxton.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/sets/72157623186773769/with/4492411672/

[markec]

Isn't there some stirrings being made to resurrect Formula Pacific in NZ, there should be enough cars lurking about in dusty sheds.Steve Donaldson has 2 Ford powered Swifts, one being the Panasonic car that won 1989 Wigram.

[Michael Clark]

Yup - I understand a swag of RT4s have come into NZ in recent times, there are some Swifts plus the Ralts, Marches, Chevrons and stuff that already live here.

The plan, as I've been told, is to have some sort of a body that made F5000 so successful here - not word yet as to whether you can only race if you own the car/your father owns the car or you raced in period...

[David McKinney]

I hope the result isn't 25 cars existing in the country and six or eight turning out to race - as happened in the day

Mind you, the same could be said for the last years of F5000 first time round, so maybe now's the right time

[Les Laidlaw]

4739

[Peddler]

I marshalled throughout the 1970s and the big thing about Pacific when it arrived was the sheer speed of the top drivers. Rosberg was startling and so was Millen to my surprise. None of the F5000 brigade, in the best of those cars, seemed as gawd almighty crazy quick as the Pacifics. It might have been that they were all much younger on average than the crusty V8 squad.
If a Pacific revival is achieved as an historic class they will need to have drivers to match otherwise old fools like us with long memories will always be comparing. F5000 seemed pedestrian when it came back but now seems to have got some drivers to do it justice. The last effort at Pacific racing I saw in NZ was feeble, cars running off cam etc.

[ffdave]

Just wondering whether anyone has any later photos of the Peter Jackson Series Formula Pacific series between 1990 and 1992? Car's like the Reynard 90H, 92H, Swift DB4 etc. Would love to see photo's of Radisich's Reynard 90H which i think went on to be the Thomlinson Uniden car and even Steve Cameron's POPE Racing Reynard 92H or Craig Bairds 92H!

[Steve Holmes]

That Radisich Reynard was a beautiful car. Didn't he have a lot of problems getting it to work? Or am I thinking of another car?

[Steve Holmes]

I marshalled throughout the 1970s and the big thing about Pacific when it arrived was the sheer speed of the top drivers. Rosberg was startling and so was Millen to my surprise. None of the F5000 brigade, in the best of those cars, seemed as gawd almighty crazy quick as the Pacifics. It might have been that they were all much younger on average than the crusty V8 squad.
If a Pacific revival is achieved as an historic class they will need to have drivers to match otherwise old fools like us with long memories will always be comparing. F5000 seemed pedestrian when it came back but now seems to have got some drivers to do it justice. The last effort at Pacific racing I saw in NZ was feeble, cars running off cam etc.

Thats a good point. I think David McKinney wrote something very similar in his New Zealand Motorsport book back in the '80s. That the drivers were young up and comers in Atlantic, out to make a name for themselves, trying to make their way towards F1 using Atlantic as a stepping stone, and the fear factor was virtually nil.

[ffdave]

That Radisich Reynard was a beautiful car. Didn't he have a lot of problems getting it to work? Or am I thinking of another car?

The 92H Reynards had a smaller setup window than the Swift's but were definately faster as shown by Steve Cameron and Craig Baird. Not sure about the 90H Reynard that Radisich drove. He did win 3 races in 1990 and 2 races in 1991 in it before switching to the Swift. Do you know who his sponsor was when he ran the Reynard? I cant recall the colours.

[Powder]

... Not sure about the 90H Reynard that Radisich drove. He did win 3 races in 1990 and 2 races in 1991 in it before switching to the Swift. Do you know who his sponsor was when he ran the Reynard? I cant recall the colours.

Shell sponsored the Reynard (and the Swift). Looking back through some magazines, the Swift was predominantly yellow and the Reynard was mostly red.

Malcolm.

[Steve Holmes]

Wasn't the Reynard a bright pink colour?

[Powder]

Wasn't the Reynard a bright pink colour?

The VHT sponsored Ralt was bright pink/orange. It's one of those colours that doesn't photograph well but it was like an STP McRae GM1.

6852

Here's the Reynard as I remember it.

6853

Malcolm

[markec]

The Saunders car was sold on as a 77B, it was in that form that I had an association with it.

[markec]

I remember Davy Jones coming in after a practice with the tell tail reading 11400 and Grahame saying to him"that will cost your grandmother another $7,000.00"

[ffdave]

Radisich and Murphy's DB4's in 1992 and one of the Graeme Lawrence cars driven by Mark Smith on Pole with Baird next to him in 1991. You can also see Ken Smith on the inside and Radisich in the Reynard on the outside of the second row.

68556856

[Steve Holmes]

This is the car I was thinking of. Sorry for the crap scan, its a lot pinker in the photo than its come up here.

6857

[ffdave]

[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;11375]This is the car I was thinking of. Sorry for the crap scan, its a lot pinker in the photo than its come up here.

You dont have any more pics of Pacifics from that era do you Steve? That looks like a different colour scheme than the other shell car. Maybe that is his 1990 scheme and the 1991 scheme is the yellow/red combo....

I'm interested in photos of the Reynards in particular. Radisich's 90H, the Uniden Black/Green of Thomlinson, Steve Cameron's POPE Racing Reynard 92H and Craig Baird's 92H Alpine / Husqvarna car.

[Chris Read]

This posting is more to see if I can get a photo on the site that will work after all your advice. Have chosen my ex Chevron B29 in not a too exciting pose heading for the railings at Coronet Peak. Also if posting succeeds the car as it is today. Chris Read. ( don't hold your breath Steve).

[Chris Read]

Here we go again with a photo attempt6860
Ex Redman/Oxton Chevron B29 C/N 29 75 30
I think the car that went into the railing before me and he broke his leg was Tom Donavan. I do remember he had a big post at the front of the cockpit roll bar which I later learnt was to stop the fence wire doing what the steel rope did to me.
As it is today in Adelaide. Chris Read

[Steve Holmes]

There you go Chris, that was easy! You'll be building websites next!

[Steve Holmes]

[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;11375]This is the car I was thinking of. Sorry for the crap scan, its a lot pinker in the photo than its come up here.

You dont have any more pics of Pacifics from that era do you Steve? That looks like a different colour scheme than the other shell car. Maybe that is his 1990 scheme and the 1991 scheme is the yellow/red combo....

I'm interested in photos of the Reynards in particular. Radisich's 90H, the Uniden Black/Green of Thomlinson, Steve Cameron's POPE Racing Reynard 92H and Craig Baird's 92H Alpine / Husqvarna car.

Dave, I don't have any dates listed, but yes I think its the 1989/90 season. Ken Smith and Craig Baird were both in Swift DB4s, Thomlinson a Ralt RT4, and from memory he purchased the Radisich Reynard I posted above, and repainted it black for the following season.

[jim short]

Hi Chris same corner yankey driver went through sfs 1991 .have some great vidio of cars at that meet 250f largo big 1914?Fiat bcm 4clt buggatis ss001 17 cars from USA

[ffdave]

[QUOTE=ffdave;11378]

Dave, I don't have any dates listed, but yes I think its the 1989/90 season. Ken Smith and Craig Baird were both in Swift DB4s, Thomlinson a Ralt RT4, and from memory he purchased the Radisich Reynard I posted above, and repainted it black for the following season.

Steve, yip i think you are right there. Radisich had an 89H in 1990 which is the car in your photo which he sold to Thomlinson and it became the Uniden car in 1991. Radisich then bought a 90H for the 91 season and i assume sold this to switch to the Swift in 1992. Not sure what happenend to the 90H Reynard and where that ended up? Maybe went back to the States. I know who has the 89H Uniden car now.

[faminz]

Heres a couple of pics from Manfeild in the day..

[markec]

Looks like the same corner that undid Tulloch

[Chris Read]

Post them Jim ...post them. I remember the meeting and that 1914 thing even tho I have a 1914 thing myself. The whole motor of my 1914 Delage is the size of one pot of that car...think it was a Fiat or Italia of umpteen litres???
That Dunedin circuit in 1961 is what got me into motorsport. I will try and post a photo of me at age 13 in my fathers garage watching Jim Palmer and saying I am going to do that.....little did I know that some 10yrs later I was, and in that same car that I think Jim came second to Pat Hoare...(help Dave Mck???).
My photo shows the Palmer car #19 (note the number which is another story) and another Lotus #124, which could be a book in the making given the intrigue that went on and still is going on with it, on International markets. The Chevron is also in the photo at the front.
Having successfully hijacked the Pacific thread I will now retire and do some work to pay for my 'retirement'.

My photo upload 1st attempt was luck as can't get it to go again. Will try tomorrow with the pics referred to.
in the meantime imagine what it looks like. Chris Read

[Chris Read]

My god it worked Steve...!! albeit with some blank paper and a poor image but you get the picture

Chris Read

[Steve Holmes]

There you go Chris, it just takes a bit of practice, as long as the images aren't too big to be uploaded, you should have no problem. Really looking forward to seeing what else you have. I'd say the blank paper in the image above is part of the scanning process you did. Most scanners have a cropping option where you just scan the photo, not everything on the scanner plate.

[Les Laidlaw]

[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;11487]

Steve, yip i think you are right there. Radisich had an 89H in 1990 which is the car in your photo which he sold to Thomlinson and it became the Uniden car in 1991. Radisich then bought a 90H for the 91 season and i assume sold this to switch to the Swift in 1992. Not sure what happenend to the 90H Reynard and where that ended up? Maybe went back to the States. I know who has the 89H Uniden car now.

We took the 90H to the States and did Long Beach with it, Qualified 3rd finished 2nd, it was sold to Ted Titmas over there.
Cheers, Les

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks Les. What was the story with the 89H, I roughly recall it not being an Atlantic car, but instead something else, perhaps F2 or F3(?) that was converted for Atlantic? Or did I just dream that all up?

[Les Laidlaw]

Thanks Les. What was the story with the 89H, I roughly recall it not being an Atlantic car, but instead something else, perhaps F2 or F3(?) that was converted for Atlantic? Or did I just dream that all up?

Not sure on that one Steve, I didnt do that season with him

[ffdave]

[QUOTE=ffdave;11492]

We took the 90H to the States and did Long Beach with it, Qualified 3rd finished 2nd, it was sold to Ted Titmas over there.
Cheers, Les

Thanks Les, great to know. Do you have any idea of the chassis number of that 90H?

[Sorekiwi]

I know I have pictures of Atlantic cars from the 90's, I just need to find them!

I did find this one of one of the Radisich Reynards:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj112/Sorekiwi/scan0003.jpg

Thats Lou Schollum sitting in the seat, I dont remember who else was working on the car that year, it looks like it could be Jandals and Gary Petersen?

I know I have pictures of the Pope cars somewhere, but I couldnt find them today. The colors were the same as what is on the transporter in this pic:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj112/Sorekiwi/scan0002.jpg

In the US the Reynards were gone by the time I started working on Atlantic cars. Ralt RT40's and RT41's were the norm, with a few Swift DB4's running in a "C2" class. Dennis Eade was running a couple of cars at some events called XFR's which was an abbreviation for "Ex F*cking Reynard" which were based on the earlier models but fairly extensively modified.

From what I heard about the 92 Reynard, the cars were very quick until the tech officials realized that the tunnels were very flexible, allowing the side skirts to suck down to the track and producing a huge amount of downforce. A deflection test was intoduced at tech to police this, and the Reynard lost a lot of its advantage. Cameron drove his Reynard to 2nd in the US championship in 1992, beaten by Chris Smith (son of Carrol Smith) in a Swift DB4.

The RT40/41 was the next major step forward, and we were lucky to see the first of the new series of cars in 1992 in NZ when Dave McMillan bought down Stuart Crowe and Charles Nearburg. Later on Sir Ken would get a Ralt for James Taylor.

Atlantic cars will always have a special place in my heart. The howl of the BDA and later on the Toyota was awesome, and the developments in the cars was technically interesting. Competition between the chassis manufacturers and special parts developed by the teams themselves kept everyone on their toes. Atlantic lost a lot of its appeal with the introduction of the spec Swift chassis in 1998as the series turned into just another spec series.

[ffdave]

I know I have pictures of Atlantic cars from the 90's, I just need to find them!

I did find this one of one of the Radisich Reynards:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj112/Sorekiwi/scan0003.jpg

Thats Lou Schollum sitting in the seat, I dont remember who else was working on the car that year, it looks like it could be Jandals and Gary Petersen?

I know I have pictures of the Pope cars somewhere, but I couldnt find them today. The colors were the same as what is on the transporter in this pic:

Great pic of the Reynard and story! Would love to see any more from this period if you have them buried away. I didn't realise that Jandals worked with Radisich back then. He did the setup of my Van Diemen Stealth when i first raced Formula Ford.

There is a great video of Verstappen in the atlantics here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYFq2LcB-pE&feature=youtu.be

You can also see Camerons POPE Reynard in it in front of verstappen as well as Baird in the other 92H Reynard.

As well as the chassis number of Radisich's 90H Reynard I am also keen to find out the chassis number of Cameron's 92H Reynard.

[Sorekiwi]

As well as the chassis number of Radisich's 90H Reynard I am also keen to find out the chassis number of Cameron's 92H Reynard.

I'll see if Steve remembers the chassis number and ask him where the car went.

The Pope cars had gone by the time I got there in 1994, Steve ran a guy by the name of Bert Hart in a Ralt in 1993, as well as doing a very limited season himself in a new American built chassis, the Raven. A very cool car with a lot of new (at the time) ideas. Unfortunately there was no budget for testing and development, so the car didnt realise its potential.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj112/Sorekiwi/38792163_rLnwF-XL.jpg

[Rod Grimwood]

Young Lou Schollum was a very pleasant guy and was a very good peddler himself, and raced FF for awhile. He did his apprenticeship with Bill Shiels on the North Shore. His brothers Dave and Brian owned the original cars that Steve Millen raced. Dave raced FF in early days and bought car back from Singapore and did not really drive much after his big shunt at Levin. They repaired the car and Millen ran it a couple of times (his first single seat drive) and he beat Riley etc, and it graduated from there.

[Flightlessbird]

Weren't the Schollums the original partners in Stillen Performance?

[markec]

Only 1 of them was.

[Sorekiwi]

Young Lou Schollum was a very pleasant guy and was a very good peddler himself,

The old(!!) Lou Schollum is still a very pleasant guy. Its been about 3 years since I saw him last (Long Beach in 2009), and kept threatening to return home for retirement. Wonder if he's done it yet.

[Dave Silcock]

Interesting reading you guys comments ,most of you were after my time with current single seater but it would be an amazing thing if you guys and the ones I knew Tom Hooker, AJ Fairburn, Murray Mac Laren ect could get together with out the nuts behind the wheel and tell lies about how things really were. The mid night departure Auckland / Manfield to avoid a nights motel accomadation, the first tune up on the ex Merv Clark courier CF Bedford in Pitt St ,[ closed points] and then a whole day doing the down force thing and going slower, whoops I think this is a slow day. The driver requesting gear ratio changes ad infinitum untill we have two fourths, shit how did that happen must be your fault. Come on you guys spill the beans!

[David McKinney]

I lost track of Tom Hooker when he went to the US to work for George Bignotti - is he back in NZ?

[bob homewood]

I lost track of Tom Hooker when he went to the US to work for George Bignotti - is he back in NZ?
David ,check your email

[jamie]

Morning . Have looked at these pages thay take me back to BRILANT time in NZ motor racing having been invovled in building a lot of the motors from 1987 till the demise, it was neet to be with and a working with some of the best drivers of that era?? A fun time JAMIE A

[David McKinney]

Thanks Bob

[Steve Holmes]

I'll see if Steve remembers the chassis number and ask him where the car went.

The Pope cars had gone by the time I got there in 1994, Steve ran a guy by the name of Bert Hart in a Ralt in 1993, as well as doing a very limited season himself in a new American built chassis, the Raven. A very cool car with a lot of new (at the time) ideas. Unfortunately there was no budget for testing and development, so the car didnt realise its potential.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj112/Sorekiwi/38792163_rLnwF-XL.jpg

Thats a pretty car, too bad it was never developed to its full potential.

[ffdave]

Jos Verstappen at Timaru 1993

7015

[jamie]

One of the best and nice with it Jamie

[richard lester]

Heres a couple of pics from Manfeild in the day..top photo
manfeild dummy grid 1983 i think #7 is Cristian danner #9 i think is graham 'pee wee' Watson(i bought a ralt off him a few years later).#14 i think is Hubert phipps in the Tiga,#4 is allen berg followed by grant campbell and #5 in background is paul radisich.there were also the likes of dave mcmillan(RT4),kenny(RT4),David oxton(RT4),eric Morgan(RT1 ralt),norm hunter(RT4),steve cameron(chevron),Mike Rosen(RT4),Charlie Obrien(RT4),Tom Donovan (march 77B),Tony batcheler in the ex robbie hyslop heavlly modified March 74b.

[Steve Holmes]

With Nico Rosberg winning in China, Terry Marshall has allowed me to post this stunning photo of Keke, jumping through the Pukekohe chicanes.

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[Lee Tracey]

Found this video of the 1975 Players Challenge Cup Series in Canada.


http://vimeo.com/13903876

Cheers
Lee

[Steve Emson]

87368737
A couple of shots of Modus Pacifics. My narrow rear suspension example in black. Then the same car painted White with Robbie Francevics yellow car. my cars throttles jammed at Timaru and the car ended up 3ft shorter.

[Rod Grimwood]

Steve have a look at #42 on this site. After it regrew its 3 feet. It was a project, but we all had some fun with it travelling around keeping the front boys company on the ferry and the pubs etc.

[Steve Emson]

Good photos Rod! It was a bit of a shame about the throttle jamming accident. The car was just starting to come good. When we freshened the engine it made a big difference to it. It got 3rd the meeting before at Ruapuna (is that spelt correctly) where we discovered after the race that the brake balance bar was on full rears. No wonder it wouldn't stop, but I did get the fastest time down the straight at 159mph. I changed the gearing for that entry corner and was just starting to learn about these cars. When I went to Timaru with the brake thing sorted, I was thinking I was really going to get a result in this car. Was right on lap record pace, then it was all over...... Hospital, couldn't walk, no money etc, you no the drill. My girlfriend who is now my wife always did the time keeping and was always very accurate with the official timing. She had apparently just said to my crew, "This is going to be a quick lap" (She did splits) when it was suddenly curtailed. When the car was rebuilt with a locally made tub I really should not have been allowed to race. I couldn't push the brake pedal, or even walk properly. I was using both feet on the brake pedal but was as weak as a kitten. The injuries to my right foot was not good. What was once the side of my foot is now the bottom of it. So, I hope you guys did have some fun and enjoyment from the car!

[Rod Grimwood]

Alot of fun and games were had by all Steve. It was a pretty little car. On South Islands trips it was not uncommon to wake up beside the car in the trailer, as it did not snore or bring netballers back for a drink etc.

[Carlo]

Steve I still remember that day at Timaru like it was yesterday, we were waiting for you to arrive back at the workshop and you didn't come. We had worked out that something had happened but we did not know what until the crew arrived in later in the day with the news.

[richard lester]

Steve I still remember that day at Timaru like it was yesterday, we were waiting for you to arrive back at the workshop and you didn't come. We had worked out that something had happened but we did not know what until the crew arrived in later in the day with the news.
they were good days carl..when i was starting out myself steve was one of my heroes from the shellsport days in the awesome little datsun and especially with the modus in early pacific,then it was all over and i remember well my disapointment after the big shunt.....still rod mcelrea was still about so not all was lost ......!!!!!!!!!!...;)

[jamie]

HAY RICh you are showing your AGE?? Yes it was A grate time to be involved in NZ motor Sport Jamie A

[Steve Emson]

Steve I still remember that day at Timaru like it was yesterday, we were waiting for you to arrive back at the workshop and you didn't come. We had worked out that something had happened but we did not know what until the crew arrived in later in the day with the news.

Well of course i wish I had returned! But thanks for waiting at the workshop, that was very kind. Regards, Steve.

[richard lester]

HAY RICh you are showing your AGE?? Yes it was A grate time to be involved in NZ motor Sport Jamie A

you are right jamie,i have hit the five oh ...!!,which sort of means you are fossil....they were the best days and i was so fortunate to grow up at manfeild with dad and mum running the joint and before that they were both involved with levin...got to meet all the international drivers and also the locals and it was bloody hard to have an outright favourite as we had so many good peddlers who were all by and large good buggers as well....i used to pick a lot of the drivers up from the airport and learned so much chatting with these guys that i was eventually able to utilise during my days racing and running teams......gold.

[Rod Grimwood]

Now theres another thread "The Lesters" Competitor dealings, your dealings with them, promo's etc.
Be interesting as your family have put a bit into the sport and Motorsport in NZ are depted.

Remember one of first meetings Manfield sleeping at Chateau De Stables. Alright when it blew from north, but when it went south oh boy. (and yes we did pay)

[richard lester]

Now theres another thread "The Lesters" Competitor dealings, your dealings with them, promo's etc.
Be interesting as your family have put a bit into the sport and Motorsport in NZ are depted.

Remember one of first meetings Manfield sleeping at Chateau De Stables. Alright when it blew from north, but when it went south oh boy. (and yes we did pay)
crikey yes rod,when those osca boys turned up.....when petchy almost got kicked out for abusing the gate keepers...and when kenny went ferral when a gate keeper touched dorothy...when the farmer who owned the land behind the back straight blocked the drain and back flooded the track on a race weekend cause the noise pissed him off...rob and wendy loved those days and the characters that came along..etc etc....but thats not for this thread...

[seaqnmac27]

As a third former at PNBHS I remember vividly going and interviewing Rob for a school assignment. Biked from Russell St over to Parkland Cres do it on a Sunday morning.

[Homer]

Hi All

just found an interesting read/photos of one of the Graeme Lawerence cars; http://www.apexspeed.com/swift/cars.php?car_id=12

[rogered]

Hi All

just found an interesting read/photos of one of the Graeme Lawerence cars; http://www.apexspeed.com/swift/cars.php?car_id=12


I might be wrong, but seam to recall jovy marcello was later killed at indy

[richard lester]

I might be wrong, but seam to recall jovy marcello was later killed at indy
yes he was unfortunately........he was a nice guy and he and i had some good battles the year he was in NZ....especially manfeild..i was in an 86 rt4 and he was in a swift...some good memories but if you google his death at indy it was a bit like earnheart snr's in that the impact didnt look that hard.....but was...

[jamie]

Yes Rich that was sad

[jamie]

Hi Homa just had A look at your G Lawence re Swift Owner Blurb on the car driven by Jos V it is wrong Jos only crashed One Car at Wigram not 2 Jamie

[Homer]

Hi Jamie

I was thinking exactly the same thing but couldnt quite remember. I though he poked it into the hay bales coming up to the hairpain at wigram..by the hangars? - do you recall who drove the other Lawerence car that year or did he only run Jos

[Steve Emson]

Reading through some of the posts, Robbie Hislop comes up as racing a Pacific. Robbie actually helped Neville Bailey prepare my ETC Shellsport Datsun Coupe in the last season that I raced it. I had to take him to hospital one night. He was working alone in the back shed on the coupe, removing the engine. he decided to pick up the engine and carry it, but dropped it on his leg. A very keen enthusiastic guy. Maybe I inspired him just a little bit to drive himself in later years.
There is also a post about the ex Redman/Oxton car. The photo here is of me and David Oxton. We had a race long duel in my first ever single seater drive. Kenny Smith had let my tyres down on the grid before the race without telling me he was going to do it. (you cannot speak or make yourself heard with your helmet on and the engines reving. The car was understeering badly all the race which made me slower than I should have been. I was the first Kiwi on the road in the last part of the race and then the car started to overheat. I let David through in the last couple of laps. He finished 8th and me 9th.(2nd Kiwi home). I don't think David was very happy with his car.9668

[Steve Holmes]

Nice post Steve, awesome photo! Why did Kenny let your tyres down?

Do you know what happened to either of the two cars in your photo, yours or Davids?

[jamie]

YO Steve E I tryed to reply earley on but som thing happend WHAT AN AWSOM pitc Jamie

[Steve Emson]

Nice post Steve, awesome photo! Why did Kenny let your tyres down?

Do you know what happened to either of the two cars in your photo, yours or Davids?

Many single seater drivers use a 'hot' tyre pressure. they let the tyres down to the PSI they want once they are run. You hear the V8 supercar guys talk about this, or in the case of Ayrton Senna's accident, their was some early speculation that his tyres got cold and lost pressure following the pace car and subsequently at the restart the car bottomed at the first corner sending Aryton off.
I have never done that. I always use cold pressures. I start were I want and let them build up to whatever they are going too.
On the grid after the warm up lap, (where i stuck my head out into the slip stream and had all my tearoffs ripped off the helmet), i was ready to go and Kenny raced over and let the 2 front tyres down. Of course he was trying to help, but the car understeered so badly on the very important left hander onto the back straight at Wigram, that I had to lift off every lap!!! Sh#@ My terminal speed was way down, however being a newbie, I just kept going the best I could.
Three other things happened in this race that I won't forget. A very well known driver who I had out qualified cut me off big time on the warm up lap. It was pretty radical and meant to scare the new boy. I thought these bastards are bloody serious about this stuff, so thought I had better defend myself and gave it straight back (as you have too do if you want some kind of respect). so I think war was kinda declared there.
There was a rumour that Denny Hulme had said I should not be allowed in this international race as I had never driven a single seater before. I never got to substantiate that one. It was apparently started by another very well known competitor I believe who I had also out qualified. The last thing was I was deaf after the race and my ears 'rang' for 3 days afterwards. lesson to grasshopper: wear earplugs. (when you are right up the rear of another single seater the exhaust is straight in your face)'
Anyway, enough rambling, my apologies for boring everyone to death with things that happened a long time ago.I think I was 19 when I bought this car.
9681Kenny in STP hat9682

[jamie]

Hi Steve the stufh ledgons are made off the big boys did not like you chalange them the biger the name the worse some of them behaved Been there JAMIE

[Steve Holmes]

Many single seater drivers use a 'hot' tyre pressure. they let the tyres down to the PSI they want once they are run. You hear the V8 supercar guys talk about this, or in the case of Ayrton Senna's accident, their was some early speculation that his tyres got cold and lost pressure following the pace car and subsequently at the restart the car bottomed at the first corner sending Aryton off.
I have never done that. I always use cold pressures. I start were I want and let them build up to whatever they are going too.
On the grid after the warm up lap, (where i stuck my head out into the slip stream and had all my tearoffs ripped off the helmet), i was ready to go and Kenny raced over and let the 2 front tyres down. Of course he was trying to help, but the car understeered so badly on the very important left hander onto the back staight at Wigram, that I had to lift off every lap!!! Sh#@ My terminal speed was way down, however being a newbie, I just kept going the best I could.
Three other things happened in this race that I won't forget. A very well known driver who I had out qualified cut me off big time on the warm up lap. It was pretty radical and meant to scare the new boy. I thought these bastards are bloody serious about this stuff, so thought I had better defend myself and gave it straight back (as you have too do if you want some kind of respect). so I think war was kinda declared there.
There was a rumour that Denny Hulme had said I should not be allowed in this international race as I had never driven a single seater before. I never got to substantiate that one. It was apparently started by another very well known competitor I believe who I had also out qualified. The last thing was I was deaf after the race and my ears 'rang' for 3 days afterwards. lesson to grasshopper: wear earplugs. (when you are right up the rear of another single seater the exhaust is straight in your face)'
Anyway, enough rambling, my apologies for boring everyone to death with things that happened a long time ago.I think I was 19 when I bought this car.
9681Kenny in STP hat9682

Definitely not rambling Steve, I love these stories! This is just what this website was created for. Keep 'em coming!

[Rod Grimwood]

Steve Emson, this is all part of our history of motorsport in NZ and is definately not rambling, if it is please keep it coming. It is great to hear it from the people involved.
PS Steve H, earlier in thread a little bit of what happened with Steve E's car after he had his unlucky incident, with a couple of younger (older than Steve E in those days) is there. Robin Irving ran it for a while, She was a sweet little car and lead us on some great trips.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks Rod, I'll work my way back through. Now you've mentioned it I do recall reading something about it in here.

[Lee Tracey]

Steve, to quote Led Zep "Ramble On"

This is all great stuff to someone like me who as a young fella only got to see the little that made it too the mainstream media.

Cheers
Lee

[jamie]

Yes Lee it was A neet time to be invloved Jamie A

[frd1]

I'm not sure if there's any info or pictures of this car on this site so here it is anyway! It's what I recall was the first run for Bryan Hartley's last Atlantic. It was an RT4 (obviously) built up from Ralt Australia's spare parts and was essentially a brand new car. I had been involved with Bryan with B & H campaigns etc and he mentioned he would like another Atlantic. The Ford dealarship I was working at lent Graham Watson a couple of cars to use while he was running David Brabham and somebody else at Manfeild. Graham invited me down to the workshop he had rented and I saw a brand new tub on stands and the rest is history I guess.

One pic shows the Tul FF1600 behind the Ralt, I think John Evans drove it that day. Pretty sure we got both cars there in Richard Lester's transporter, wonder if he knew?! Sorry, can't recall much more than that.

10135

10136

10137

[richard lester]

I'm not sure if there's any info or pictures of this car on this site so here it is anyway! It's what I recall was the first run for Bryan Hartley's last Atlantic. It was an RT4 (obviously) built up from Ralt Australia's spare parts and was essentially a brand new car. I had been involved with Bryan with B & H campaigns etc and he mentioned he would like another Atlantic. The Ford dealarship I was working at lent Graham Watson a couple of cars to use while he was running David Brabham and somebody else at Manfeild. Graham invited me down to the workshop he had rented and I saw a brand new tub on stands and the rest is history I guess.

One pic shows the Tul FF1600 behind the Ralt, I think John Evans drove it that day. Pretty sure we got both cars there in Richard Lester's transporter, wonder if he knew?! Sorry, can't recall much more than that.

10135

10136

10137

yep thats close,my recollection is the car was built from bits and spares for tony george to drive and then Bryan took it over..i think he helped put it together and was involved with the engine......
That is actually my sister debbie in the Tul...my brother in law john evans drove it in a clubmans later on....Even Murf drove the Tul one clubmans when he was working for me ...he shunted one of my Van diemen rf91's in practice and jumped in the tul and still finished top 3...

[frd1]

Thanks for clearing that one up Richard, got my club days messed up! Was thinking when I went around to Graham's workshop, Phil Moore was there working on that tub starting to put it together. I think Bryan freshened the engine and finished putting it together in his garage at home. Are you driving a white Commodore these days?

[richard lester]

Thanks for clearing that one up Richard, got my club days messed up! Was thinking when I went around to Graham's workshop, Phil Moore was there working on that tub starting to put it together. I think Bryan freshened the engine and finished putting it together in his garage at home. Are you driving a white Commodore these days?
nope,got an X5 and live in Pukekohe....

[rogered]

yep thats close,my recollection is the car was built from bits and spares for tony george to drive and then Bryan took it over..i think he helped put it together and was involved with the engine......
That is actually my sister debbie in the Tul...my brother in law john evans drove it in a clubmans later on....Even Murf drove the Tul one clubmans when he was working for me ...he shunted one of my Van diemen rf91's in practice and jumped in the tul and still finished top 3...
i see bryan and his kid share the same hairdresser:)

[Rod Grimwood]

One calls her mum and the other the missus.

[Grant Ellwood]

When Graham was running David Brabham the other driver was Mike Thackwell I think.

[richard lester]

When Graham was running David Brabham the other driver was Mike Thackwell I think.
Hi Grant,hope alls good with you...pretty sure at that time other watson driver was parker johnstone from US...i was in my ex Bowe 81 RT4 and i ended up buying the David brabham 86 RT4 at season end......

[Grant Ellwood]

Hi Grant,hope alls good with you...pretty sure at that time other watson driver was parker johnstone from US...i was in my ex Bowe 81 RT4 and i ended up buying the David brabham 86 RT4 at season end......

Hi Rich, all going well up here in the backwoods of Virginia (apart from the snakes and ticks). I must have gotten the year wrong re Brabham's team-mate but I recall him partnered with Mike Thackwell at a Bay Park round. I was just looking at a photo I shot of them wearing Oz-themed yellow and green Flamecrushers we made in Tauranga. There was a great article about Mike Thackwell in a recent issue of Motorsport (UK).

[TonyG]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img116-1.jpg

[seaqnmac27]

Yep thats them, remember seeing them race at Manfield beginning of '87

[Les Laidlaw]

I was looking after Davids car & Brett Lupton was on Thackwell's car.
These were new 87 model cars, David crashed his at Bay Park and reverted to the spare 86 model..........he liked the 86 car better

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img116-1.jpg

[seaqnmac27]

Does anyone have any video footage of any of the pacific races from 77-84 in particular?

[ffdave]

Did Andrea de Cesaris race in New Zealand in 1979 in a 782 or 78B March? I could not find any mention of him in the oldracingcars.com results in 1979 but have seen photos of him in a March 782 or 78B at Pukekohe and Manfeild. In 1980 he was in a March 792.

2194421945

[seaqnmac27]

Did Andrea de Cesaris race in New Zealand in 1979 in a 782 or 78B March? I could not find any mention of him in the oldracingcars.com results in 1979 but have seen photos of him in a March 782 or 78B at Pukekohe and Manfeild. In 1980 he was in a March 792.

2194421945

This seems to be a setup used at Pukekohe, unfortunately, I do not even remember this season so, I can't answer fully, but this is what I have always remembered De Cesaris' March to look like from every other image I have seen of this car, these are borrowed from page 1 of this thread, from this series and both with and without nosecone, as became a little familiar, given Andrea's eventual nick name.

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[Michael Clark]

The owner of the pale blue crash hat is Eje Elgh - he was here in Jan 79. Thackwell and de Cesaris were here in 1980 with 792s.

[ffdave]

This seems to be a setup used at Pukekohe, unfortunately, I do not even remember this season so, I can't answer fully, but this is what I have always remembered De Cesaris' March to look like from every other image I have seen of this car, these are borrowed from page 1 of this thread, from this series and both with and without nosecone, as became a little familiar, given Andrea's eventual nick name.


The crashed car was 792-23 which he crashed before Pukekohe 1980 and he used 792-19 at the first round at Puke. The other photo of the two 792's were their 1980 cars, 792-19 and 792-32 for Thackwell. So i'm still lost as to when the photos of De Cesaris in a 782/78B March at Pukekohe and Manfeild are from......

[Michael Clark]

Dave, are you sure it is de Crash? He and Fabi had identical colours on their helmets.

Only Fabi and Kenny ever drove the 782/B as I recall.

[ffdave]

Dave, are you sure it is de Crash? He and Fabi had identical colours on their helmets.

Only Fabi and Kenny ever drove the 782/B as I recall.

Mystery solved. It is Eje Elgh. He drove a Marlboro March 782 in NZ the year before De Cesaris and Thackwell ran the 792. He ran the same number #2 as De Cesaris and the same livery which led to the confusion. There were other 782/78B's in 79 also. Jeff Woods (USA) ran a 78B.

[paul lancaster]

Ouch, what happened to the driver?

[seaqnmac27]

Went onto a long and relatively unsuccessful F1 career thanks to his fathers Marlboro links. Not a bad driver when all things considered. The Alfas of 1982/83 could have been a lot better and in 82 he could have won both Long Beach and Monaco, well no, he would probably still have run out of petrol.

[paul lancaster]

Correct, I was at sreves the other day, he has the ex hiro matsushita swift which ran panasonic sponsorship, which sreve is going to reliver the car in, he also has the ex tom donovan, dave morrison typhoon, and damon hills first wings and slicks car, an ff2000 argo, among various ffs.

[seaqnmac27]

2194421945

Ya know, I had completely forgotten Eje Elgh came to NZ, and I suspect, these are the only pictures of him racing in NZ that I have ever seen.

[Homer]

Hi All,

Just some pics of Atlantic cars from the revival meeting at Ruapuna. Those swift DB4's are still an amazing looking racecar.

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[Homer]

22500225012250222503

[Homer]

22504225052250622507

[Michael Clark]

As a generalisation, they looked better than they went.

Anyone else here there over the weekend?

[Homer]

As a generalisation, they looked better than they went.

Anyone else here there over the weekend?

I understand what you mean. I think 18 were entered, 12 made qualifying and 4 finished the Lady Wigram Trophy race....

[Steve Holmes]

Yikes, really? 4 finishers? Its interesting, in period they were pretty reliable, unlike F5000 cars which were chronically unreliable. F5000s in historic racing are now pretty well bullet proof.

By the way, great pics Homer, thanks for posting.

[Homer]

No problem Steve, the quality is a bit poor..iphone camera. Just out of curiosity, how do historic racecars get away with cigarette advertising?

[Michael Clark]

I'd been asked if I might like to help with the commentary of the Trophy race last Sunday - I was happy to help because a mate had asked me but wasn't especially fussed after what we'd seen previously over the weekend. When I arrived at the comm box, other arrangements had been made - which suited me perfectly at the time, and as things developed in the race, I was delighted not to be in front of the microphone.

They dropped like flies - a couple puttered around at quarter speed for a few laps, sounding awful before expiring. I don't know if the issues followed a general theme and frankly lost interest in trying to understand if it was a failure of BDDs, Toyotas or something else.

It was a farce - this is to take nothing away from Kenny's win. He'd been dominant all weekend and was the deserving winner. Another highlight was the Andrew Higgins Reynard decked out in a James Hunt/Hesketh livery - brilliant.

[Habu]

Yikes, really? 4 finishers? Its interesting, in period they were pretty reliable, unlike F5000 cars which were chronically unreliable. F5000s in historic racing are now pretty well bullet proof.

By the way, great pics Homer, thanks for posting.

I'm no expert, but I recall a degree of unreliability stemmed from the total loss electrical system that some of the cars ran, way back when. I'm sure someoene more qualified than I can shed some light on the subject.

[Heartbeat]

I'm no expert, but I recall a degree of unreliability stemmed from the total loss electrical system that some of the cars ran, way back when. I'm sure someoene more qualified than I can shed some light on the subject.

Yes we ran a luminition ignition system on the BBD and spent alot of time changing ignition boxs, come to think of it spent alot of time changing engines too.

[Steve Holmes]

No problem Steve, the quality is a bit poor..iphone camera. Just out of curiosity, how do historic racecars get away with cigarette advertising?

If a car was sponsored by a cigarette company in period, its allowed to wear that livery today. There have been some exceptions, I seem to recall a few years ago some old Holden Dealer Team cars doing demonstration laps at either Bathurst or another event, had to cover up the Marlboro lettering. Quite ridiculous really.

[Malcolm McLeod]

If a car was sponsored by a cigarette company in period, its allowed to wear that livery today. There have been some exceptions, I seem to recall a few years ago some old Holden Dealer Team cars doing demonstration laps at either Bathurst or another event, had to cover up the Marlboro lettering. Quite ridiculous really.

As I understand it, they can run in livery for NATIONAL meetings, but not for INTERNATIONAL meetings, eg Bathurst or Austrailian Grand Prix.
The bluring out of the tobacco sponsors on OLD footage shown on Bathurst tv coverage in recent times is complete b#llsh!t as far as I am concerned.
It is so pleasant to see the Winfield and Peter Jackson names on the works Nissans this weekend at Sandown...even though the weather is wintery and not what I came prepared for...but that's another thread.

[BMCBOY]

I thought I might upload a few more Formula Pacific photos from my collection that I have been working on recently. This lot was taken at Manfield and most of these shots have never been printed previously.
Hope they bring back a few memories.

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[BMCBOY]

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[ERC]

As single seaters are not my forte, glancing through my own pics I find it extremely difficult to know what formula any car raced in, without consulting a race programme! I can generally recognise a FF and usually a FJ, even a Formula Vee, usually a F5000, but from the 1970's onwards, it all gets rather blurred. I may have one or two representative pics, but I'd hesitate to post them for fear of wrongly categorising them.

Therein lies the problem for me, with much of today's motorsport formulae.

[Michael Clark]

Great shots Ross

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, brilliant photos Ross, thanks for sharing!

[Steve Holmes]

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How can he see where he is going? The cockpit sides on this car are very tall.

[BMCBOY]

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[Michael Clark]

#15 - the Cibie Lights March, is our very own H H Wood

[BMCBOY]

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[BMCBOY]

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[BMCBOY]

Hopefully you guys are still enjoying these so I will add some more

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[BMCBOY]

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[David McKinney]

Speaking personally, I'm loving them:)

[Horizon]

:) agreed !

[Michael Clark]

Don't get me wrong - I think an RT4 is about as good looking as a racing car can get - but it soon became 'Formula RT4'...up until then, the shapes just weren't different, they were quite different.

A casual observer could have been excused for not being able to tell a Lotus from a Brabham from a Cooper a decade earlier - but a Modus was distinctive from a March from a RT1 from a Chevron.

Keep 'em coming!!

[Howard Wood]

Great photos, the side on ones in post #244 are sharp! Would you be prepared to sell a print of the last one?

Keep them coming.

[BMCBOY]

No problem Howard.
Email me at cammick339@gmail.com

Cheers, Ross

[Rod Grimwood]

Great photos, the side on ones in post #244 are sharp! Would you be prepared to sell a print of the last one?

Keep them coming.

You can autograph it Howard and send it back to Ross. I remember that car with the louvre rear cover and oil tank out the back.