Formula Atlantic/Pacific

[Howard Wood]

She was a spare parts special all right. The rear cover was a modified 753 (F3) one, the oil tank mounted on part of the old style 742 (F2) "Monster Bracket" while the single pole rear wing was from Ron Dennis' Project 4 parts bin. The cockpit and nose were 761 (F1) made from a mould I flopped over some film cars John and I were involved with.

After much research by the guys at oldracingcars.com it appears the tub started life as a Brian Henton 732 F2 car which he crashed in 1973 (again) and sent back to March to exchange for a new one as part of their "swap-a-crate" scheme. March then rebuilt the tub and re-plated it as 742-U1, the pre production mule.

John bought it via Dave Price Racing from Val Muscetti who had run it in F/ Atlantic, ShellSport etc in the UK with a variety of engines. Practically a new car!

[seaqnmac27]

She was a spare parts special all right. The rear cover was a modified 753 (F3) one, the oil tank mounted on part of the old style 742 (F2) "Monster Bracket" while the single pole rear wing was from Ron Dennis' Project 4 parts bin. The cockpit and nose were 761 (F1) made from a mould I flopped over some film cars John and I were involved with.

After much research by the guys at oldracingcars.com it appears the tub started life as a Brian Henton 732 F2 car which he crashed in 1973 (again) and sent back to March to exchange for a new one as part of their "swap-a-crate" scheme. March then rebuilt the tub and re-plated it as 742-U1, the pre production mule.

John bought it via Dave Price Racing from Val Muscetti who had run it in F/ Atlantic, ShellSport etc in the UK with a variety of engines. Practically a new car!

Val Musetti later found a new pastime as a BBC stunt driver, a job which included crashing IIRC an Aston DB6 on Midsomer Murders, just a bit of useless information.

[Rod Grimwood]

Val Musetti later found a new pastime as a BBC stunt driver, a job which included crashing IIRC an Aston DB6 on Midsomer Murders, just a bit of useless information.


Funny how some drivers end up doing that stuff.

[928]

Val Musetti later found a new pastime as a BBC stunt driver, a job which included crashing IIRC an Aston DB6 on Midsomer Murders, just a bit of useless information.
Val was a stunt man who took up motor racing, and still runs a company doing stunt work for the entertainment industry. Also still runs the family restuarant

[Howard Wood]

We are getting well off topic but Val Muscetti's credits include the first Italian Job movie. He was the guy who did the tunnel barrel rolls in the Minis.

[Michael Clark]

Well not quite Howard - Val actually raced Atlantics, in fact in 1975 ran a March 742 in the British series - called something like 'Southern Organs', which is not what some might first think...

[Howard Wood]

Muscetti had two "74" Marches at the time which only added to the confusion over the provenance of "our" car. He also ran them in a number of configurations/ classes and you can't help but assume there was a bit of interchanging of parts.

At one point he ran a 3 Litre V6 Ford/Cosworth GAA engine in the "other" car too. The engine frames on our car were really hacked about which suggests something other than an Atlantic spec BDA had been installed at some stage.

We bought the car as a rolling chassis less engine and set about updating it in the usual way, ie updated bodywork, wings and wheels. As purchased the car had 752 bodywork, "Monster Bracket" rear wing assembly and Melmag wheels. I sent some photos of the car as purchased to Chris at oldracingcars.com which helped them to identify the history.

[BMCBOY]

Here's a final bunch of photos from 1977 - mainly Baypark. These are all I'll post for 1977 as I'm keen to start on going through my 1978 negatives.

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[BMCBOY]

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[Barry]

I'm still looking for photos or information about the B49 Chevron that Graeme Lawrence ran in Malaysia in Rothmans colours in 1979, We are rebuilding it for a customer to run in the Atlantic/Pacific series next year.
Barry L

[Michael Clark]

Damn these are good. I am loving this stuff!!

[Carlo]

Damn these are good. I am loving this stuff!!

Me too, so many memories of magic times with neat people

[Horizon]

I'm still looking for photos or information about the B49 Chevron that Graeme Lawrence ran in Malaysia in Rothmans colours in 1979, We are rebuilding it for a customer to run in the Atlantic/Pacific series next year.
Barry L

I take it you have already asked GL and Eli ??

TG

[Barry]

Sure have, GL only raced the car once and photos seem to be really thin on the ground

[BMCBOY]

Damn these are good. I am loving this stuff!!

Many thanks for the encouraging comments re photos guys - it has been fascinating going over all the old negatives I took 35 years ago.
An awful lot of these photos I have never printed before, so it has been good to get them out there for others to enjoy also.
Although it takes quite a bit of work in Photoshop after scanning to get results that are acceptable to me, I think it has been worth it.

Here's a teaser for the next batch - sorry its not the Chevron B49 Barry, but an interesting car also.

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[seaqnmac27]

Something you guys may be able to clarify for me. In Ross' posts #239 and #259. 239 is a side shot of Chevron #26 driven by Albert Poon. Then again in #259 there is a Chevron #25 first following Jim Stone in the Cuda as they pass Ivan Tighe in the Elfin, then on the outside, presumably allowing Andrew Miedecke to pass in his Lola, yet thi sis also Albert Poon, however Poon was entered as #24. Yet on here http://www.oldracingcars.com/results/racelist.php?CategoryID=ZB and But car #25, was Beng Saswanto in his Lola? can some explain?

[Michael Clark]

#25 is a Chevron

As I recall, the Saswanto Lola was run #14 in the GP because GHL drove it - Milan and/or David will have the details closer to hand than me but I'm guessing the Lola must have otherwise been #24

[Michael Clark]

I've just breezed onto ORC - as correctly stated by '27', that site records race numbers that are different to the photos.

Given that the photos don't lie, and that two cars with the same number isn't a realistic option, I think we can say ORC has the race numbers around the wrong way.

[Michael Clark]

Oh hell - until you look at the photos on page 12 and we see Poon now in #26...

[seaqnmac27]

And i have pics of both Lawrence 14 and Saswanto 25 at Pukekohe

[Michael Clark]

The way I remember it was like this - Saswanto got crook and his car was made available for Graeme Lawrence who, not surprisingly, ran with his familiar 14 because it was available

[seaqnmac27]

Yeah, just been reading the season review. Very clear that the pictures I have of Saswanto is Saturday and Lawrence Sunday. Poons number 26 is confusing but the pics of the Chevron number 25 instead of the listed entry, is because that at BayPark, they Saswanto and Poon swapped cars, so therefore so as not to confuse time keepers, they took their numbers with them.

[BMCBOY]

Yeah, just been reading the season review. Very clear that the pictures I have of Saswanto is Saturday and Lawrence Sunday. Poons number 26 is confusing but the pics of the Chevron number 25 instead of the listed entry, is because that at BayPark, they Saswanto and Poon swapped cars, so therefore so as not to confuse time keepers, they took their numbers with them.

This could have been taken in practise

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[kiwi285]

Thank God Steve started this website otherwise these great photos might never have seen the light of day.

I didn't see a lot of these cars in period, but would sure like to see them back on track again in the future. We appear to have quite a collection of them here in NZ and doubtless Australia has its fair share. Now that would be another class to get the adrenaline flowing.

[seaqnmac27]

Yeah, its obvious when you look at the helmet!

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[Michael Clark]

I wonder if that rear wing support was sturdy enough...

I would never regard the cars from that wide nose/'hammerhead shark' period as being things of beauty - handsome perhaps, but never gorgeous. It was part of the reason I always admired the Cuda.

I always thought the early bodywork on the RT1 as being the least attractive of the cars of the day but I've just been forced to reconsider - Lola is the winner!

[seaqnmac27]

GL raced it at least 3 times. Once maybe twice in NZ, this is after its arrival on April 20th 1979. It was then raced at the Penang GP where he finished 2nd behind Ken Smith and another which I can't remember off the top of my head. Beyond that he soon got rid of it and replaced it with the March 80a. The Chevron was on sold to Peter Haskett and Charlie Thomason.

[Michael Clark]

There was a meeting at Puke in early 1980 - perhaps March...where GL ran it.

The only reason I recall that is that it was first, and definitely last, time I rode a push bike to a racetrack

[Habu]

GL raced it at least 3 times. Once maybe twice in NZ, this is after its arrival on April 20th 1979. It was then raced at the Penang GP where he finished 2nd behind Ken Smith and another which I can't remember off the top of my head. Beyond that he soon got rid of it and replaced it with the March 80a. The Chevron was on sold to Peter Haskett and Charlie Thomason.

Initially Charlie drove the car, as it was decided that he was faster than the current owner - was this Peter Haskett and the B49? Charlie drove the car for a period before purchasing the ex Oxton B34 I think. He later owned another Chevron when he was in possession of the Ralt that he bought from Kenny Smith, but I seem to think it was the B49.........sorry, its all a bit hazy, and I was only young.

[seaqnmac27]

It seems to be referred to as B48/9 Charlie drove Haskett owned then Haskett drove it. Performance wise Penang 2nd to Smith, Malaysia 2nd by 30s to Smith, Selangor retired 0 laps. So maybe contact Ken Smith, see if he has any information regarding the car.

[Barry]

That's a bit of interesting history, Ken is looking for pictures as well.
I'd also like info on the Ralt RT4 that Charlie Thomason bought of ken Smith as this is the ex Laffite Gitane car that I have owned for a number of years and that we are now back out racing. When Ken had it, it was the green Apple Car Company car. I'm not sure where it went after Thomason until I bought it off Gary Devin.
Barry Leitch

[seaqnmac27]

That's a bit of interesting history, Ken is looking for pictures as well.
I'd also like info on the Ralt RT4 that Charlie Thomason bought of ken Smith as this is the ex Laffite Gitane car that I have owned for a number of years and that we are now back out racing. When Ken had it, it was the green Apple Car Company car. I'm not sure where it went after Thomason until I bought it off Gary Devin.
Barry Leitch

Barry I will have another look through my info.

[seaqnmac27]

There was a meeting at Puke in early 1980 - perhaps March...where GL ran it.

The only reason I recall that is that it was first, and definitely last, time I rode a push bike to a racetrack

Ok pieces fit together. I have previously said that the car did not complete a lap at the 1979 Selangor GP, therefore as in March 1980 GL had his March 80A, which was as the 76A and Chevron B48 painted in Rothmans Malaysia colours, is it at all possible it was not the Chevron you saw Michael? David McKinney in his article about entries for the January 1983 NZGP, describes the Peter Haskett/Charlie Thomason entry as being the ex Lawrence Chevron badly crashed in its only appearance, now I know from records that is incorrect, however it would have been its 3rd overseas appearance, maybe 4th or 5th overall. as for the Ralt I will keep looking.

[seaqnmac27]

OK, so, the Chevron was rolled at Selangor. The Ralt that Thomason and Haskett drove was the one you now have as you know, just trying to work out where it went from there. It would have been on sold in either 87 or 88.

[Michael Clark]

Sorry if I wasn't clear 27 - I didn't see GL in the B49 that day in early 1980 at Puke, it was a March. When I typed that this morning, I would have sworn it was the 76B and the meeting was 1980 - but as the day has gone on, I now wonder if it was the 80A...and if it was 1981.

Or could it have been the 80A in March 1980? On balance, that is what I think I'm going with. But certainly not the Chevron - David and Milan will know for certain but I wouldn't be surprised if GL never ran the B49 in NZ - and apologies if that has already been covered.

[seaqnmac27]

The 80A made its debut at Pukekohe in March 1980 so that would meet with your recollection Michael. The only timeframe that makes sense for it to run in NZ would have been if there were any Pacific meets between May and September 1980 as that was the gap between the Malaysian and Selangor GPs. He took possession of the Chevron in Malaysia.

[Habu]

That's a bit of interesting history, Ken is looking for pictures as well.
I'd also like info on the Ralt RT4 that Charlie Thomason bought of ken Smith as this is the ex Laffite Gitane car that I have owned for a number of years and that we are now back out racing. When Ken had it, it was the green Apple Car Company car. I'm not sure where it went after Thomason until I bought it off Gary Devin.
Barry Leitch

The Ralt didn't go anywhere between Charlie and Gary Devon. The Ralt was crashed in practice before the 89? GP at Pukekohe. The tub was badly damaged and the car had already been sold to Gary before the event if I remember correctly. An aircraft fabricator guy looked at repairing it, but said it was too much work

[Barry]

When I was repairing the car and sanding body panels the car had been painted lots of colours so I assumed that it had lots of owners or at least sponsors. I don't have any NZ issued log books for the car only the Cams one that says the owner is Bob Jane.
Barry L

[seaqnmac27]

Would that have been when Laffite drove it?I think most of the cars driven by Internationals were locally owned.

[Michael Clark]

I think Barry L knows where the Laffite car is!

[seaqnmac27]

When I was repairing the car and sanding body panels the car had been painted lots of colours so I assumed that it had lots of owners or at least sponsors. I don't have any NZ issued log books for the car only the Cams one that says the owner is Bob Jane.
Barry L

Hi Barry, from www.oldracingcars.com

Ralt RT4 [273] (Jacques Laffite): Ralt sales record says sold to Graham Watson/Bob Jane, without delivery date. [Tub no: 81/132; Gearbox FT1486; Fuel cell: JM37174 10/81] Chassis number given in NZMA report for the car of Jacques Laffite at the 1981 AGP, [NZMA 23 Nov 81 p4]. The car of Ray Hanger at 1982 AGP is described as ‘ex Laffite 1981 AGP’ [AMSYB-82 p166] and presumed to be the car used by Hanger earlier in the Australian Gold Star series.

[Barry]

Mine is the 1982 Laffite car. The 81 car had light blue side pods and mine are the darker blue.
Barry L

[seaqnmac27]

Mine is the 1982 Laffite car. The 81 car had light blue side pods and mine are the darker blue.
Barry L

Same thing Barry.

Ralt RT4 [262] (Jacques Laffite): Ralt sales record says sold to Graham Watson/Bob Jane, without delivery date. [Tub no: 81/118; Gearbox FT1356; Fuel cell: JM36679 5/81] Chassis number noted in NZMA report as on the car of Geoff Brabham at the AGP 1981, [NZMA 23 Nov 81 p4]. Chassis number given for Jacques Laffite’s car at 1982 AGP. Chassis number given NZMN 21 Jan 83 p16 for the car of Ken Smith at Bay Park, 2 Jan 83. A separate note by Dave McKinney says that this was the car used by Brabham 1981 AGP and Jacques Laffite 1982 AGP.

[Barry]

That's the one. Here is a photo from the Wigram Meeting last year by Terry Marshall.
Barry
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[Barry]

Here is another Terry Marshall image of my RT4. That is Damon Leitch driving at last years Wigram Revival meeting.
Barry L
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[Michael Clark]

Ron Tauranac sure got that one right!

Beautiful

[Homer]

Hi there

In that photo with the cars on the grid, can someone shed any history on the car in the Marlboro colour scheme? Also, there was a Swift db4 at the Wigram revival meeting, it was black and white with Lonestar sponsorship. Did this car have any history in NZ?

Regards,

Simon

[Carlo]

Ron Tauranac sure got that one right!

Beautiful

Sure did, still one of the best looking race cars ever produced.

[Michael Clark]

He did a few - right through the 60s from the Formula Junior BTs, and then the run of F1/2/3s.

The RT1 started out damn plain but got more handsome as it got older and wider - normally that doesn't follow - but it was hard to believe anything could nicer than an RT4. I well remember when Oxo's first arrived. Some liveries really worked - David's PYE/dark blue and most certainly the GITANES are two of the best.

[Barry]

Hi Homer, the car in Marlboro colours was Stan Redmond's and was driven by Andy Higgins, I think it was only the paint that looked like Marlboro and not a team car, the Lone Star DB4 at the Wigram meeting this year was driven by Garry Lovie and I don't think it has a NZ history being recently imported from USA.
Barry L.

[BMCBOY]

Here's a few shots from 1978 Pukekohe GP meeting from the track and in the pits

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[BMCBOY]

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[Lurker]

Fantastic pictures, Ross, brings back some wonderful memories - you are a true artist with the camera

[BMCBOY]

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[BMCBOY]

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[BMCBOY]

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[ffdave]

Some Formula Pacific cars from the NZFMR last weekend.

Photos - Paul Higgins

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[Bryan]

Hey those are fantastic pics Tony! Thanks for moving them across to here. Did de Cesaris race after doing this?

He did, then took all the wheels off in a start line shunt at Wigram. Hve a photo somewhere of him climbing out of the wheel-less tub - must find and scan it.

[Bryan]

Without checking too deeply, Smith was a 'dna' at Wigram
Baker's accident was on the right-hand sweeper after the Hairpin - piled into one of those huge marker-tyres borrowed from earth-moving machinery and wrote off his Birrana. From memory, in practice

Remember seeing the aftermath. Was in practice, on the left hander between the start/finish straight and the run down to the hangars. Broke his right leg, iirc.

[Bryan]

He had a gentle rollover again down south but this was different situation with a racing tangle with another top NZ competitor Dave McMillan.
In the Esses at Levels. Have photos of the acrobatics - will add to the list of photos to find and scan. :-)

[March76]

Many thanks for the encouraging comments re photos guys - it has been fascinating going over all the old negatives I took 35 years ago.
An awful lot of these photos I have never printed before, so it has been good to get them out there for others to enjoy also.
Although it takes quite a bit of work in Photoshop after scanning to get results that are acceptable to me, I think it has been worth it.

Here's a teaser for the next batch - sorry its not the Chevron B49 Barry, but an interesting car also.

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Nice photo!

Does anyone have more pictures of Graeme Lawrence March 76b?
I am trying to find on the web but it's not easy.

[Steve Holmes]

Here is one from the Mike Feisst Collection: http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?241-The-Mike-Feisst-Collection-Part-6

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[jamie]

Hi Gang Good to See those good pitcs Dean Hall in one of the first Swift cars in NZ 1989 ? Jamie A

[Jeff]

Hi guys , a cool small story from when we used to attend Bay Park in the mid- late 70's.
On the evening of practice day quite late at night we were driving along Cameron Road in Tauranga , heading towards Greerton and dad saw the lights on in a commercial garage with guys working feverishly on a Formula Pacific.
Dad being dad decided to bowl on in and see what was going on - dragging us kids with him.
Turns out it was Australian driver Wolfgang Prejawa in ( I think ? ) a Birrana.
The crew were putting in an all-nighter to replace something to do with the engine or gearbox.
We must have spent an hour there watching the crew and although they were busy , there were also very happy to talk about the car and what they were doing.
I can't remember him having a great race the next day unfortunately.
Thanks to Wolfgang and his crew for a cool childhood memory.
Yet another thing that probably would not happen today !

[GD66]

Qualified 18th and retired with a misfire, Jan 3 1977 according to oldracingcars.com

[Steve Holmes]

Hi guys , a cool small story from when we used to attend Bay Park in the mid- late 70's.
On the evening of practice day quite late at night we were driving along Cameron Road in Tauranga , heading towards Greerton and dad saw the lights on in a commercial garage with guys working feverishly on a Formula Pacific.
Dad being dad decided to bowl on in and see what was going on - dragging us kids with him.
Turns out it was Australian driver Wolfgang Prejawa in ( I think ? ) a Birrana.
The crew were putting in an all-nighter to replace something to do with the engine or gearbox.
We must have spent an hour there watching the crew and although they were busy , there were also very happy to talk about the car and what they were doing.
I can't remember him having a great race the next day unfortunately.
Thanks to Wolfgang and his crew for a cool childhood memory.
Yet another thing that probably would not happen today !

Thats a neat story Jeff. Another thing in your story that wouldn't happen today, is the driver wouldn't have been part of the all-nighter. He'd be tucked up in bed asleep.

[Lindsay G]

Someone asked for photos of Paul Radisich's Reynard (I think) a long way back. Not sure if this is it or not but its Wigram ,probably early 90s238372383823839

[Michael Clark]

Looks like an RT4

[jamie]

It is an R T 4 Least I can spell that Jamie

[Grant Sprague]

Gee great piks .. thank you .....hey ..... Mike have u moved over this way yet ..ready for that catch up ?

[Lindsay G]

Am I remembering correctly thinking this was Kenny Smith's
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[Michael Clark]

Yes Kenny - I always thought that was a nice livery

[Habu]

Am I remembering correctly thinking this was Kenny Smith's
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Yes, from Ken Smith, and then on to Charlie Thomasen. Was a nice car.

[Barry]

Before this it was the Gitanes car that Laffite raced in the Australian GP and belonged to Bob Jane, now restored in Laffite's colours and raced by the Leitch family.

[Lindsay G]

Yes Kenny - I always thought that was a nice livery

So did I

[Barry]

At the moment I am running the car on it's original Cams log book as the NZ log book has been misplaced at some time. If anyone knows where it might be could you let me know. I have also struggled to find period photos of the car if anyone can help. Thanks, Barry L.

[Bryan]

First attempt at scanning photos. :eek: Will try to scan the negatives some time, see if they come out better.:o

Must have submitted these to MotorAction, judging by the notes on the back of the photos.

Baypark 2/1/1983

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Allen Berg

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Allen Berg defending from Mike Rosen

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Christian Danner leads Paul Radisich

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Graham Watson leads Dave McMillan

[Rod Grimwood]

Top shots, you better get into that drawer of yours and be busy Bryan.

Thanks for shareing.

[Michael Clark]

For the avoidance of doubt

PR is in car 5...Christmas Dinner is in the white Rifle sponsored car behind

Isn't the late Graham Watson (#9) leading Swiftie?

[seaqnmac27]

For the avoidance of doubt

PR is in car 5...Christmas Dinner is in the white Rifle sponsored car behind

Isn't the late Graham Watson (#9) leading Swiftie?

I agree, the head position of driver of the white Rifle sponsored car suggests its Danner, 6ft4 isn't he? Very distinctive helmet of Watson in #9 as is shown here in 1981/2. So is that agreed then? Radisich leading Danner Watson leading McMillan?

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[Michael Clark]

Xmas Dinner 6 2 tops I'd say

[Bryan]

I agree, the head position of driver of the white Rifle sponsored car suggests its Danner, 6ft4 isn't he? Very distinctive helmet of Watson in #9 as is shown here in 1981/2. So is that agreed then? Radisich leading Danner Watson leading McMillan?
Thanks for the corrections, chaps.:) Only had the surnames noted on the backs of the photo (and in the wrong order!):eek:

[Les Laidlaw]

Xmas Dinner 6 2 tops I'd say

I remember CD was a struggle to fit in the chassis, BMW sent him out to do the series, they had arranged 2 brand new engines from Cosworth but they were way down on power compared to Jennings etc.
The chassis was leased from Andrew Miedecke, the late Bruce Cary engineered it while Rapid Bartels & I rattled the spanners.

[Steve Holmes]

How cool would it be to see a full field of historic Formula Atlantic/Pacific cars at the 2015 NZFMR?

[nzeder]

How cool would it be to see a full field of historic Formula Atlantic/Pacific cars at the 2015 NZFMR?Very cool

[Michael Clark]

Hopefully with a better reliability record than at Ruapuna last December.

Actually I'd be happy drawing the line at ground effect and just going with RT1s, Chevrons, early Marches, Modii, Lolas, etc

[Horizon]

Monterey Historics this year has a full grid of Flat bottom Atlantics. They did the same a couple of years ago with 20 something cars.

[Bryan]

He did, then took all the wheels off in a start line shunt at Wigram. Have a photo somewhere of him climbing out of the wheel-less tub - must find and scan it.

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[Peter Lucas]

Hi Grant,hope alls good with you...pretty sure at that time other watson driver was parker johnstone from US...i was in my ex Bowe 81 RT4 and i ended up buying the David brabham 86 RT4 at season end......

Richard (and others),

I was sent a link to this thread by a friend in Australia (where I live) as I recently bought an RT4 and have been recing it for about a year. I don't have details for all of its life as I have an original logbook, the current logbook but the one that covered the period in between has either been lost or covered the period the car was in New Zealand and possibly operated under your log book system.

I have quoted your entry above as I think that there is a small chance that you were the owner of the car I acquired as it is an 86 RT4 that I believe was raced in New Zealand by David Brabham. According to the records I do have it was originally owned by Ralt Australia (Graham Watson) but stayed in New Zealand after racing there in early 1986 before returning to Australia in 1998 when acquired by Ray Stubber. It is Chassis number 592 and competed in PYE livery.

I would be grateful for any information you have about the car.

Having read this thread and some other material it sounds like you folks in New Zealand had (and still have) a very high interest in open wheeler racing and I have wondered whether there is an active racing scene/series for Atlantics over there at present. In that regard I would also be grateful for any information anyone has about what sounds like an "historic racing festival" in New Zealand scheduled for January 2015 that is to be run over a few weekends. I have found some information about it using google but haven't been able to find any details about eligibility and classes etc.

I have a recent photo of the car which I will try and attach and anyone that was at the 2014 Phillip Island classic may have seen it in the flesh there.

[bry3500]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEobhpUGFOM

[Howard Wood]

Richard (and others),

I was sent a link to this thread by a friend in Australia (where I live) as I recently bought an RT4 and have been recing it for about a year. I don't have details for all of its life as I have an original logbook, the current logbook but the one that covered the period in between has either been lost or covered the period the car was in New Zealand and possibly operated under your log book system.

I have quoted your entry above as I think that there is a small chance that you were the owner of the car I acquired as it is an 86 RT4 that I believe was raced in New Zealand by David Brabham. According to the records I do have it was originally owned by Ralt Australia (Graham Watson) but stayed in New Zealand after racing there in early 1986 before returning to Australia in 1998 when acquired by Ray Stubber. It is Chassis number 592 and competed in PYE livery.

I would be grateful for any information you have about the car.

Having read this thread and some other material it sounds like you folks in New Zealand had (and still have) a very high interest in open wheeler racing and I have wondered whether there is an active racing scene/series for Atlantics over there at present. In that regard I would also be grateful for any information anyone has about what sounds like an "historic racing festival" in New Zealand scheduled for January 2015 that is to be run over a few weekends. I have found some information about it using google but haven't been able to find any details about eligibility and classes etc.

I have a recent photo of the car which I will try and attach and anyone that was at the 2014 Phillip Island classic may have seen it in the flesh there.

Peter,

I can't help you with any history of your car but no doubt there will be many here who can. However if you or any other F/ Pacific owners have any interest at all in running at the NZFMR next January the Festival organisers will be VERY happy to talk to you. For 2015 the organisers are keen to expand the single seater classes to include a Atlantic/ Pacific grid and this will only happen if they can attract entries from Aus and that other off shore island, the South Island where a number of cars reside.

Easiest first point of contact for you is via www.hamptondowns.com where you can contact Tony or Chris or Jim Barclay the event organiser. We would love to see you here.

[Peter Lucas]

Peter,

I can't help you with any history of your car but no doubt there will be many here who can. However if you or any other F/ Pacific owners have any interest at all in running at the NZFMR next January the Festival organisers will be VERY happy to talk to you. For 2015 the organisers are keen to expand the single seater classes to include a Atlantic/ Pacific grid and this will only happen if they can attract entries from Aus and that other off shore island, the South Island where a number of cars reside.

Easiest first point of contact for you is via www.hamptondowns.com where you can contact Tony or Chris or Jim Barclay the event organiser. We would love to see you here.

Thanks for the referral Howard. I will try and get in contact with Tony or Chris or Jim via the website to find out details and then will speak to one of the organisers of Q/R cars here in Australia who will be at the race meeting in Sydney this weekend.

[crunch]

Would be bloody awesome to see a grid of my favourite single-seaters. If only I could find one I can fit in!
Mind you; what size is a F/Pacific grid? I remember when a weeny grid marshall at Manfield in the early 80's, that at one International meeting we had more grid marshalls than cars on the grid!

[Rod Grimwood]

Would be bloody awesome to see a grid of my favourite single-seaters. If only I could find one I can fit in!
Mind you; what size is a F/Pacific grid? I remember when a weeny grid marshall at Manfield in the early 80's, that at one International meeting we had more grid marshalls than cars on the grid!



Could see you in one crunch, but love to watch you getting out. serious, I think there are a few cars around, there was a field at Ruapuna 'Wigram' meeting back in Feb this year, and before at Hampton pretty good to watch too.

Be good to have some of the Aussie boys with Pacifics over as well, to join in with the F5000 and Trans Am group who are coming.

[Oldfart]

Would be bloody awesome to see a grid of my favourite single-seaters. If only I could find one I can fit in!
Mind you; what size is a F/Pacific grid? I remember when a weeny grid marshall at Manfield in the early 80's, that at one International meeting we had more grid marshalls than cars on the grid!

Just like NZV8s?

[Michael Clark]

I can get in and out of my FF Crossle without too much drama so couldn't resist the temptation to hop into a friend's Ralt RT4.

Getting in was ok...35 minutes awkward minutes later I was finally out. I'm told an RT1 would be a piece of cake for an ex-lock.

[richard lester]

Hi peter,i will have a look back through some old boxes of info i have from the early days to see if i can verify the chassis number...i never took much notice of the number at the time....my car also has a repair to the inner tub on the right side near gear lever...was very easy to see at the time.car went to kenny after me and then here and there till it ended up in australia....i wouldnt be surprised if ken had a box full of original log books tucked away somewhere, cheers.

[Rod Grimwood]

Michael, so right, a RT1 is a easy slip in and out for us (slightly) bigger guys, been in both and like you only once in RT4 half a day to get out, thought I was going to have dinner and a blanket put over for night. No real place in RT4 to put arms/hands down to force yourself up when it is full from side to side of arse and hips.

And this was way back in early/mid 80s days when I thought I was fit and in shape.

[Howard Wood]

I can get in and out of my FF Crossle without too much drama so couldn't resist the temptation to hop into a friend's Ralt RT4.

Getting in was ok...35 minutes awkward minutes later I was finally out. I'm told an RT1 would be a piece of cake for an ex-lock.

And only got out after 35 minutes because some one yelled "Fire!".

[Michael Clark]

I was actually dying for a pee - while stuck in that bloody thing I missed afternoon tea, much to the hilarity of Messrs Foulkes, Lucas (the owner of the car) et al.

[Peter Lucas]

Below is a link to the livestream footage from all of Sunday's racing at the Sydney Retro Speedfest. The racing for Q&R (F5000s, Atlantics/Pacifics and F1) starts at the following points:

20th minute - start of first race (which inlcuded a crash requiring race to be red flagged)
44th minute - restart of first race
4 hours 25th minute - start of Trophy Race

http://new.livestream.com/itvl/events/2957415/videos/49903126

[Bryan]

Richard (and others),

I have quoted your entry above as I think that there is a small chance that you were the owner of the car I acquired as it is an 86 RT4 that I believe was raced in New Zealand by David Brabham. According to the records I do have it was originally owned by Ralt Australia (Graham Watson) but stayed in New Zealand after racing there in early 1986 before returning to Australia in 1998 when acquired by Ray Stubber. It is Chassis number 592 and competed in PYE livery.

I would be grateful for any information you have about the car.

I have a recent photo of the car which I will try and attach and anyone that was at the 2014 Phillip Island classic may have seen it in the flesh there.

There are photos earlier in this thread of David Oxton running in a PYE livery (as #18). Did anyone else use it (in NZ or Aus)? A 2014 Peter Ellenbogen photo of the #20 Pye car has the caption "Ralt RT4 Formula Atlantic / Pacific ex- Ken Smith , Bap Romano , Jeff McPherson 1985 (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/peterellenbogen/13872066945/)".

[Peter Lucas]

There are photos earlier in this thread of David Oxton running that PYE livery (as #18). Did anyone else use it (in NZ or Aus)?

Yes, there were a number of RT4s in PYE livery from the early 80s. I think even in 1986 there were two cars running identical livery by Ralt Australia.

[Les Laidlaw]

Yes, there were a number of RT4s in PYE livery from the early 80s. I think even in 1986 there were two cars running identical livery by Ralt Australia.

I'm pretty sure in "86" Graham ran Pye on one car and Ignis Fridges on the other for the Gold Star .

[Jeff]

I took these photo's in about 1984 at Pukekohe.
Nissan - Cue series I think ?

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[Oldfart]

Where abouts on the track are those Jeff, never seen the backgrounds like that before!

[Rod Grimwood]

Where abouts on the track are those Jeff, never seen the backgrounds like that before!

Hairpin end of back straight

[jamie]

Hi Gang Davy Jones in Shag's RT4 No4 NEC, ? on the other Rt4 Jamie A

[Oldfart]

Hairpin end of back straight

Hell I marshalled there pretty often in the late 60s and never noticed the houses etc

[Jeff]

Yep , that's the road running past the racetrack at the hairpin and the small bridge ( yellow sign ) towards Buckland in the background. Steve Millen (and others) know this stream intimately :o
There has always been hedges / undergrowth there over the years but they must have lowered the level of the hedges this particular year....
As Rod pointed out , the other photo is on the approach to the hairpin ( railway light / signal in the background

Hell I marshalled there pretty often in the late 60s and never noticed the houses etc

[Horizon]

Hi Gang Davy Jones in Shag's RT4 No4 NEC, ? on the other Rt4 Jamie A

With Travelodge and using number 11, is this not Smithy ?

[seaqnmac27]

With Travelodge and using number 11, is this not Smithy ?

Yep, its January 84 isn't it? Year after the Apple Car Co?

[Jeff]

Quite possibly 84.
I was making a wild guess at the date
Yep, its January 84 isn't it? Year after the Apple Car Co?

[Rod Grimwood]

Yep, its January 84 isn't it? Year after the Apple Car Co?


84 GP Ken had Apple Car Co. as sponsor/entrant

[Rod Grimwood]

From 84 Programme, this page easier to download than GP page but same grid.

[seaqnmac27]

Yep you are right, it'd be January 87, the Jones car is the one that lost the wheel at the hairpin in Wellington.

[Horizon]

Intersting to note is that Riley Hopkins still owns the same ralt. Has not run in a few years !

[jamie]

Hi gang. No seaqnmac27 the car that lost the wheel in Wellington was A SWIFT with BDA Jamie A

[Michael Clark]

I think the Chevron that Haskett is shown as driving was the ex Lawrence B49

[Habu]

I think the Chevron that Haskett is shown as driving was the ex Lawrence B49

Driven by Charlie Thomasen from time to time, and later owned by Charlie / Barry Thomasen?

[Barry]

The B49 is being rebuilt by us at the moment for next season, has anyone got any photos of car in Rothmans colours from when Graeme Lawrence ran it in Malaysia. Barry Leitch.

[Michael Clark]

Barry - do you have an email address for GHL? If not, let me know.

[BMCBOY]

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[Barry]

Hi Michael, no I don't.

[Habu]

Beautiful photos BMCBOY, please keep them coming :)

[Michael Clark]

I agree Habu - just stunning.

Is #17 Brett Riley in AB's DART? If so, they were a good looking thing. It was hard to make a better looking car than an RT4, but the DART sure went close.

[Les Laidlaw]

Totally agree, they are great photos BMCBOY,

It was a great era of racing to be involved in......... interesting season working with Ross Cheever, from Davy Jones pancing him in the main street of Auckland, cobbling an engine together out of bits at Randell Edgell's for the GP meeting at Puke (which he won), to fitting a new tub before the last round as he tore up the floor running off the track at Manfield, and winning the series. :cool:

[BMCBOY]

Here's a picture of Randell explaining how he did the job..... but Davy doesn't look too interested

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Davy looks more interested in someone else................

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Happy Days!!

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[Habu]

Wow, these colour photos are superbe. Many thanks for posting them BMCBOY. Please continue to do so :D

[Shoreboy57]

"Racing for New Zealand" that brings back some memories. It reminds me that while we think back to the late 60s as the pinnacle of New Zealand's representation in the sport internationally with "trio at the top" but what a wonderful spread of Kiwis we now have competing globally at the moment - Indy, Le Mans, WRC, GP2, GP3, Porsche, V8s etc etc. Despite much of the doom and gloom about motorsport domestically these are good times on the world stage!

[graham donaldson]

that was such a great series.I worked with Doug sheirson racing & tom Gloy in the USA.3 rivers at canada always had F1 drivers do it.at Macau worked for ther flying tigers team,it is a shame it went away

[BMCBOY]

A few shots from the 78-79 International series

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[Rod Grimwood]

Great photos Ross, thanks again for the time and sharing this history.

[Sentra Racer]

A couple of photos my brother took at Manfeild. 1982ish maybe??? The Just Juice Series?? I think this meeting may have been my introduction to circuit racing. If not then it was one of the very early ones. For some reason I remember #14 Pye - Riley, #? Pan Am/Citizen - McMillan, #7 Tullen - Millen, #8 AFX Aurora - Moreno & #18 NEC - Oxton. Was young at the time so may be confused about dates.

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[Sentra Racer]

Manfeild 1988


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[Sentra Racer]

Nissan Mobil 500 1988


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[Sentra Racer]

A couple of randoms from Manfeild, a few years apart.


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[crunch]

A couple of randoms from Manfeild, a few years apart.




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Barry Thomlinson. The man behind the TRS series nowdays whom I jokingly refer to as Barry Eccelstone :rolleyes:

[crunch]

Manfeild 1988


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Richard Lester's RT4 and probably Rob Lester's Ford? Might even be the Bruce Turnbull designed Tull

[Steve Holmes]

Really loving all these pics guys, keep them coming!

I always thought Barry Thomlinson's cars looked fantastic, especially the one pictured above.

[Swannie]

Does anyone have any photos or info on the 2 cars brought out from the USA around 1984, ran in New Zealand Line shipping colours?
Was the first memory I have as a kid going to a Motorsport meeting at Manfeild

[Sentra Racer]

Richard Lester's RT4 and probably Rob Lester's Ford? Might even be the Bruce Turnbull designed Tull



I think you will find that it was sister Debbie driving the Ford.

[BMCBOY]

I have no excuses for the length of the mens shorts in the following photos!

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[Habu]

Wow - thank you so much for posting BMCBOY - fantastic shots

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[Roger Dowding]

Back in the day when there was a sharp right turn, on the front straight / curve,careful of the Stables at Pukekohe,very sharp,i know as lost it there myself in the TR4A in a full circuit Sprint

[Habu]

Thanks for posting again BMCBOY - so many images never seen before and they're fantastic!
Such a shame the club circuit part of the track can no longer be used - I guess as a kid I was very fortunate to be at these meetings

[Oldfart]

Roger, I am not surprised if you lost on the sharp "right". Must be like a guy I co-drove with, not that right, the other f@#$%ing right!!! :)

[BMCBOY]

Thanks for posting again BMCBOY - so many images never seen before and they're fantastic!
Such a shame the club circuit part of the track can no longer be used - I guess as a kid I was very fortunate to be at these meetings

Thanks again Habu. Yes the "stables corner" was brilliant for photography as the marshalls would let us get up on the roof or top of the stairs etc.
The long circuit wasn't often used other than for B&H, but great value when it was - also the sweeper part of the club circuit was quite tricky.
You're right about never seeing these images before - I have never printed them before as I went overseas for a period soon after they were taken. I've been enjoying rediscovering them myself - I don't recall the Cuda being that colour with Steve Cameron driving it.

[Rod Grimwood]

Back in the day when there was a sharp right turn, on the front straight / curve,careful of the Stables at Pukekohe,very sharp,i know as lost it there myself in the TR4A in a full circuit Sprint


Didn't you turn left at front straight and then pass stables, or are you talking about club circuit.

[Barry]

I am looking for history on our RT4. It is chassis # RT4/81/262. It was originally bought by Bob Jane for the Aussie GP at Calder. It was driven by Brabham in 81 and Laffite in 82. Ken Smith bought it after this and it became the Apple Car Company car. After this it passed to Peter Haskett I think and was also raced by Charlie Thomason. Other than this I have nothing until I got the car off Garry Devin in2002. Can anyone help fill in the blanks. It was badly damaged at some time as it had some awful repairs on the tub. Thanks Barry Leitch.

[Grant Sprague]

Great photos . up close stuff
.... thank you ...

[Habu]

I am looking for history on our RT4. It is chassis # RT4/81/262. It was originally bought by Bob Jane for the Aussie GP at Calder. It was driven by Brabham in 81 and Laffite in 82. Ken Smith bought it after this and it became the Apple Car Company car. After this it passed to Peter Haskett I think and was also raced by Charlie Thomason. Other than this I have nothing until I got the car off Garry Devin in2002. Can anyone help fill in the blanks. It was badly damaged at some time as it had some awful repairs on the tub. Thanks Barry Leitch.

Hi Barry, I cant speak for your cars early life, but Charlie Thomasen was my next door neighbour. As I far as I can remember he purchased your car directly from Ken Smith in about 1988. Charlie did race a couple of other cars owned by Peter Haskett, most notably the black Chevron B49 and B34? Perhaps Peter Haskett owned your car before Charlie as you mention - he appears to have run an RT4 in 1987, but so was Ken Smith at the same time? Or maybe Peter Haskett owned your chassis after Ken Smith and then the car ended up back in Smiths hands before being on sold to Charlie?

I may have previously mentioned that the car was damaged in practice at Pukekohe prior to the start of the 1989 NZGP, this would account for the repairs on the tub. As far as I can remember the car had already been sold to Gary Devon and he still took possession after the incident at Pukekohe. Gary Devon and the Thomasens (Barry and Charlie) seemed to all be good friends from what I can remember and Gary frequently helped out on Charlies RT4 at race meetings.

[Barry]

Thanks for that, it is all starting to make sense now.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Habu
I'm no expert, but I recall a degree of unreliability stemmed from the total loss electrical system that some of the cars ran, way back when. I'm sure someone more qualified than I can shed some light on the subject.

I remember when Paul England was running the Chevron for Larry Perkins in 1979, they were at the Australian Grand Prix at Wanneroo Park and kept changing the black boxes in the hope that they might find one that enabled the motor to run!

Black box? 'Black art' one might say.

Having looked right through this thread I'm surprised to see no pics of Andrew Miedecke in the Galloway... though there is this fraction of his car being passed by Kenny Smith... does anyone have a complete photo of the car in its last days?

http://s26.postimg.org/fulanskzd/1115fr_RSmiedeckefraction.jpg

[BMCBOY]

Having looked right through this thread I'm surprised to see no pics of Andrew Miedecke in the Galloway... though there is this fraction of his car being passed by Kenny Smith... does anyone have a complete photo of the car in its last days?

Here's a couple taken on the same event


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[Ray Bell]

Thanks for that...

Andrew paid the price for that drive, it's good to see there's some pics of him.

[Steve Holmes]

Ross, these photos are outstanding! Thanks for sharing them.

[khyndart in CA]

Andrew's car certainly has a nose design that brings back memories to me of Jody Scheckter's 1972 McLaren Formula Two car, the M 21.

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(Scrapbook 1972 )


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Inside Trojan Works, October 1972. (Ken Hyndman photo )

( Ken Hyndman )

[Ray Bell]

Harry Galloway worked for Surtees before returning to Australia to build the Galloway... but he certainly would have seen those McLarens while he was there.

The car used for one season by John Smith in ANF2 (1600 single cam - he used a Ford) and then 'Mad Andy' took it to NZ.

It didn't last him long.

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[MartyD]

yep thats close,my recollection is the car was built from bits and spares for tony george to drive and then Bryan took it over..i think he helped put it together and was involved with the engine......
That is actually my sister debbie in the Tul...my brother in law john evans drove it in a clubmans later on....Even Murf drove the Tul one clubmans when he was working for me ...he shunted one of my Van diemen rf91's in practice and jumped in the tul and still finished top 3...

Hi Richard,
I know this is an old post but do you happen to recall where & when this picture was taken? Also, any idea when & where Tony George drove it?
Cheers

[Rod Grimwood]

Great photos again Ross: Steve and RT4, Robin Irving (Doc) and Modus, and Tom Donovan with modifications.

[BMCBOY]

Great photos again Ross: Steve and RT4, Robin Irving (Doc) and Modus, and Tom Donovan with modifications.

Thanks Rod - there are more on the previous page also.

I have scanned some more of Doc Irving and will email them to you so you can forward them to Robin.

Eric Mallard used to get me to take the 'head and shoulders' photographs, so he could use them for the driver's listings in the programmes. Good to see these young guys faces out of their helmets so long ago.

[seaqnmac27]

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Dave McMillan

Eric Morgan and

Graham Watson all Jan 82

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Mike Rosen 1982

Rob Wilson, 1981?

Steve Cameron 1982

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Oxton and Smith need no intro, plus Grant Campbell

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[Jamez]

My Swift DB4 in 1992 Driven by Gene Pope III in the Atlantic Series:

http://iforce.co.nz/i/5gtwpqww.ey1.png

Then driven in NZ by Gene Pope III during during 1993 season, picture at Teretonga

http://iforce.co.nz/i/wz35dpih.na5.jpg

and Finally as it is now in 2017.

http://iforce.co.nz/i/2lt2j2zb.k1j.jpg

I have done 3 race meetings in it this summer and will be back out again at the start of May at Hampton Downs with a handful of other Atlantics/Pacifics.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks for posting James, thats a really pretty car. The DB4 is one of the best looking race cars of the era in my opinion, and with success to match.

[ERC]

And I'd like to add that James is going really well in it too!

[Frosty5]

My Swift DB4 in 1992 Driven by Gene Pope III in the Atlantic Series:

http://iforce.co.nz/i/5gtwpqww.ey1.png

Then driven in NZ by Gene Pope III during during 1993 season, picture at Teretonga

http://iforce.co.nz/i/wz35dpih.na5.jpg

and Finally as it is now in 2017.

http://iforce.co.nz/i/2lt2j2zb.k1j.jpg

I have done 3 race meetings in it this summer and will be back out again at the start of May at Hampton Downs with a handful of other Atlantics/Pacifics.

Looks like your exhaust outlet
is pretty close to the fire extinguisher

[MaY0]

Jos Verstappen at Timaru 1993

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Does someone have more pictures from Verstappen in his Swift DB4? And maybe more information about the Swift DB4? For example how long was this DB4? And what was the height? I am investigating if it is possible to create a scale model (1:43) from this car.