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View Full Version : Trident Palliser, what’s in a name ?



Red5
03-09-2017, 09:17 PM
I have noticed there is a bit of confusion over the history of what is now regarded as the Trident Palliser, before my memory fails me completely I will relate my memories. I have also had to rely in some cases to the comments of Robin Curtis.

I decided I wanted to be a racing driver at the age of 23 and purchased a Palliser WDF2 from Donald Wood in 1975.

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I won my first meeting at Manfeild ($100 prize money !!) in the car and although it was a good car it felt heavy. I stripped the Palliser, weighed the chassis and decided to build something lighter and better. A bit like a Ray. The Ray was a popular car at the time and I think a few chassis were based on them.

Like most aspiring F1 drivers of the day I had no cash, unfortunately I also had little/none of the skills required to complete the job ! But I was effectively in the same boat as everyone else, I think that was what aspiring F1 drivers did in those days.

With some square tube, a flat bed, a hacksaw, files, g clamps, ruler and a home made in-line fluxer I started work on my first chassis. I knew I wanted something lighter and at least as strong/rigid.

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At the end of the project I had learnt to weld, to a certain standard(!!), and had a car that finished 4th in the FF championship 76/77 (from memory) behind Eric Morgan, Norm Lankshear and Grant Campbell.

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I knew I needed something better and I had spent some time with Donald Wood. So I started another chassis, this time with mostly round tube. I found this chassis a lot more intricate to build, I also put in an extended engine spacer along with wider front and narrower rear track, I introduced more antidive and a different top link. I also tried to stiffen the chassis without introducing too much weight.

The first meeting (at Manfeild ?) I had a few problems, as Grant Campbell has great pleasure relating – he sent his brother Ron around to my pits(stable) as he was a bit worried I may be competition for him, but Ron found me hacksawing some tubes out of the chassis to accommodate my feet ! As we all know from seat fitting etc, sitting in the garage in a car is very different to driving at race speed, well at any speed really.

I don’t think I completed that season 77/78, that may be the year I lent the car to Alan and Grant won the championship.

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The following season 78/79 the car won many races, it was pretty much unbeatable in the wet and won Wigram by 9 seconds. We finished the championship 2= with Jeff Pascoe, behind championship winner Mike Finch.

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Although I cannot remember what happened to these cars, I do have a copy of an advertisement where they were both offered for sale, the square tubed one for $2900 and the round tubed one for $4900. The cars would have been sold in 1979.

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I sold the Palliser in the mid 80’s to a much underrated racing driver and entrepreneur, who still owns it, not far from where I’m sitting at the moment.

The square tubed car was advertised on Trademe recently.

The round tubed car was raced very successfully by Alan McCoy, Bruce McCoy and more recently by the famous and ever improving Phil Fowkes.

The naming of the car as a Trident has confused me, I have looked back through all of my Motor Action clippings and can find no mention during my ownership of a Trident, only a Palliser. In fact I have a logbook dated 1976 for a Ray with a photo of my car but the last entry was in 77 so maybe that was for the square tubed car.

So maybe it was one of the later owners who renamed it, I think I would have continued to use the Palliser logbook, because it was easier than reregistering a new car.

It did need renaming as it is quite definitely not a Palliser WDF2, the Palliser WDF2 sits in a nearby barn.

Steve Holmes
03-10-2017, 02:44 AM
Wow, that is an absolutely fantastic first post! Thank you for this.

ERC
03-10-2017, 02:59 AM
Interesting history. So, in the photo archives, what should it be known as, especially as it has indeed been in race programmes as Trident Palliser??

Michael Clark
03-10-2017, 09:06 AM
Welcome to The Roaring Season Kim

Oldfart
03-10-2017, 01:40 PM
Welcome Kim, it's your family who got me into this whole performance. There was a bit more talent in building cars than you mention in London Street :)

Howard Wood
03-12-2017, 09:15 PM
I don't think your memory is as bad as you claim Kim, pretty much as I recall too. The story of this car is a very good illustration of the difficulty historians and others have in verifying the provenance of old racing cars.

Not important with a Formula Ford as they are not 5 million quid Ferraris or Maseratis? Maybe today but those of us who cheerfully cut up Formula Juniors and MAE screamer F3s to make (and crash) film cars 40 odd years ago would have laughed at the idea that a Formula Junior might be ever worth any money!

So Palliser WDF2, chassis #34 as imported by Donald and me in 1972 has become at least 3 traceable and largely intact cars:

1. Trident Palliser as described by Kim, currently owned and raced by Phil Foulkes and driven (and won) by Kenny at this year's festival. Still using the original WDF2 logbook because changing it was too hard.

2. The original chassis and body still owned by Russ C and effectively still a complete and traceable car.

3. Kim's "square tube" car as being advertised on TradeMe.

And you could mount a reasonable argument for each car being historically correct and documentable!

Red5
03-13-2017, 12:57 AM
It's a thank you to you Steve for providing a forum to post our memories.

Red5
03-13-2017, 01:09 AM
Interesting history. So, in the photo archives, what should it be known as, especially as it has indeed been in race programmes as Trident Palliser??
I have had another look though my result sheets and see I called the car a Kiwee KC in the final round of the 78/79 season but I was probably messing around.
If it was my choice ..... as we may see the day where all 3 cars are running at the same meeting I would go for Trident Mk1, for the square tubed car, Trident Mk2 for the round tubed car as it is effectively a MK2 version of the square tubed car.

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ERC
03-13-2017, 01:19 AM
Trident will do nicely for me. Many thanks! Great to have the first hand history of these cars, especially as Formula Fords are less distinctive than saloon cars of the same era.

Mk 1/2/3 etc. is of secondary importance for me as I have any number of Ferrari pics and Porsche pics where trying to get the exact model number drops us back into the 80/20 rule.

Red5
03-13-2017, 01:20 AM
Welcome Kim, it's your family who got me into this whole performance. There was a bit more talent in building cars than you mention in London Street :)

Hello Oldfart, please don't blame me, I have always been the innocent one !!

By the time I was ready to start my racing career most of the talent had moved on, in fact London St may have moved on.
I have attached a couple of photos of Dads sports car, in London St, from memory he put a stretched version of Alans Dauphine bodywork over it. I always worried it had a very powerful Peugeot engine and very little in the way of brakes, or side impact. I do recall Dad being upset when he got a bill from the car club for a 5 bar gate he had careered through on some hillclimb. On a positive note I suppose, that did prepare him for the bill from Peter Hannah for the starters stand at Bay Park !

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Red5
03-13-2017, 01:29 AM
I don't think your memory is as bad as you claim Kim, pretty much as I recall too. The story of this car is a very good illustration of the difficulty historians and others have in verifying the provenance of old racing cars.

Not important with a Formula Ford as they are not 5 million quid Ferraris or Maseratis? Maybe today but those of us who cheerfully cut up Formula Juniors and MAE screamer F3s to make (and crash) film cars 40 odd years ago would have laughed at the idea that a Formula Junior might be ever worth any money!

So Palliser WDF2, chassis #34 as imported by Donald and me in 1972 has become at least 3 traceable and largely intact cars:

1. Trident Palliser as described by Kim, currently owned and raced by Phil Foulkes and driven (and won) by Kenny at this year's festival. Still using the original WDF2 logbook because changing it was too hard.

2. The original chassis and body still owned by Russ C and effectively still a complete and traceable car.

3. Kim's "square tube" car as being advertised on TradeMe.

And you could mount a reasonable argument for each car being historically correct and documentable!

Don't panic Howard, my memory is still ok, just trying to get something on paper before something nasty like, as my Mum would say, "debenture" sets in.

In the photo above of me following Jeff Pascoe at Bay Park it is interesting that Robin Curtis mentions that I had lent Donald the Palliser for the meeting, so the 2 cars have been on the track at the same time. No mention of Donald in the results, but it does ring a bell.

Howard Wood
03-13-2017, 02:25 AM
I think Robin Curtis might have that one wrong, Donald went to the UK in 1975 and lived there until his "departure" in 2006.

Steve Holmes
03-13-2017, 04:41 AM
This is such an enjoyable thread.

Oldfart
03-13-2017, 04:49 AM
That is a great set of photos of the Peugeot car. Is that Graham Cooke along with Allan and your Dad?
If memory serves me right it was the hillclimb out at Head Rd between Karapiro and Piarere that your Dad went off at, and yes it was a body from the Dauphine based car that was used.
I remember one time at an early Baypark whe Allan had a note in the log book of the sports car that said "This car needs a f88ing good tidy up" a few weeks later at Puke he was incensed when everybody fawned over the McBegg which had bits tied in with baling twine.

Michael Clark
03-13-2017, 06:22 AM
As if this thread wasn't already 'very good', it has just lurched into 'excellent' with mention of the debenture.

Just about to phone P.Foulkes and bring all of this to his attention.

Red5
03-14-2017, 07:19 PM
I think Robin Curtis might have that one wrong, Donald went to the UK in 1975 and lived there until his "departure" in 2006.
I was talking to Phil about this, is it possible Donald came back for a holiday ?

Red5
03-14-2017, 07:26 PM
That is a great set of photos of the Peugeot car. Is that Graham Cooke along with Allan and your Dad?
If memory serves me right it was the hillclimb out at Head Rd between Karapiro and Piarere that your Dad went off at, and yes it was a body from the Dauphine based car that was used.
I remember one time at an early Baypark whe Allan had a note in the log book of the sports car that said "This car needs a f88ing good tidy up" a few weeks later at Puke he was incensed when everybody fawned over the McBegg which had bits tied in with baling twine.
Yes, that's Graham Cooke and Alan. It was a bit spooky but I went to see Graham many years ago and he lives in the old Wood house in Grassy Downs Place (?), downstairs in the one of the garages he had a lathe type machine in a similar spot to where Donald used to have his.
Thanks for the hillclimb info, I'll have to look it up.
Any idea what happened to Alans and Les Pohes Lotus 20 ?
Any idea of the whereabouts of Max Nelson, Ken Dunn ?