Race programme - essential info

[ERC]

Since we have had an on-line entry system now for several years, plus AMB transponders, then all driver/car info should be spot on, but those who have seen the raw data from the entry system will know only too well, that there are 100's of errors of various sorts, ranging from incorrect spellings to wildy incorrect cc, figures. (719.6 cc Chev anyone? 11,999cc Porsche?) This is driver input!

What I am interested in is what data is considered essential in the race programme's entry list and also the AMB results?

This last weekend has highlighted several areas that are extremely frustrating, not-withstanding any late entries, which are the bane of any race organiser's life.

What I consider important, others may not, but not only was there no cc rating in the programme, but overseas drivers weren't identified either. For example, this may not be an issue for most, but when adding to my databases, I have always coded a driver initially, by country (U=UK, N=NZ, A=Australia etc.).

Whilst we know that Greg Thornton, Robs Lamplough, the Lyons family etc, are from the UK, many of those here for the first time, are more difficult.

Sure, I may be making life difficult for myself, but how about everyone else? What do you/don't you need in the entry list?

What about the AMB on line results system? They tend to put driver names - but no car! Not much use if you are not at the event.

[Ray Bell]

Entrant, driver name (including most familiar christian name), car make and model, capacity, colour, it should all be there.

Moreover, with online entries, it should be a requirement for the correct information for that programme line to be put in place by the entrant.

Mind you, it wouldn't hurt for the organisers to have someone vet them all before printing...

[Alan Hyndman]

I'd like to think that the more prestigious the event, the more detail might appear in the programme, but at the very least:

Competition number,
Driver's name,
Make and model of car,
plus the honest cubic capacity of the engine (most notably, but not limited to, Rover V8 engined cars)

Actually, in an event that holds itself out to be Classic/Historic, the year of the car would be much appreciated.

[Ray Bell]

Indeed, the year would be good in Historics...

Especially if a car is representing a version of itself at a particular point in a long career.

[Milan Fistonic]

The programme for today's NZ Motor Cup meeting at Hampton Downs has to one of the worst I've struck.

Sure it had a list of the races that were to be run and it did have profiles of the twenty TRS drivers but the other classes did not get listings of all the drivers and their cars.

The four GT classes had only the current championship points tables - 8 drivers and points listed for GT1 & GT2(no cars listed). 10 for GT3 and 2 for GT4.

The Ssangyoung Utes had driver profiles for only 10 drivers in a field that must have numbered nearly 30.

Formula First had a championship points table listing only 16 drivers (again no cars listed).

Same with the Honda cup - 22 drivers and points.

The Pro 7 Mazda field did get the entry split into the various classes but I didn't count the numbers of starters so I'm not sure if the 31 drivers listed was the full field.

As a record of who and what was racing there today the programme was a waste of the $5 it cost.

[Andrew Metford]

I'm not a fan of the current form of the AMB transponder system on MyLaps. It has car number and driver name only. Needs to have car make and model and engine size, and should also have colour. It doesn't need to be all there in front of you, if you hover the mouse over the car number / driver name it can show all the extra details, but in these electronic days, I can't see why all the info can't be there. It's not like you have to enter the details every meeting, do it when you register your transponder and it's there forever.

[ERC]

Thanks to Dale posting his list on here, I can at least identify the Australian drivers from his group!

Thanks also to HRC, as I did get their list as supplied to the scrutineers, but even that is incomplete, so did some drivers deal directly with HD and not go through the on line system? Whatever the reasons, $5 for an incomplete programme is not a good look.

If I was in a position to have access to a big list of drivers/cars not in the printed programme at a meeting I was running, I'd like to think that at the very least, I'd run off a list of the late entries or errata and have it available for anyone who wanted it.

I'd rather have a two page entry list from a National or clubby meeting that is complete, than a glossy printed programme that is incomplete.

Club and national permit meetings are primarily for the drivers, but the Festival was also aimed at spectators. Why else would we have billboards advertising the meeting, if it wasn't to attract paying spectators?

Hopefully, I'll soon get a list of the country of origin of the visiting Formula Junior drivers!

[Allan]

In defense of the programme I have to say that it's smaller size made it much easier to carry amd easier to handle in the wind. Other than that I can only agree with previous comments.
I find it interesting that so far no comment has been made about Kiwiboss's turn six spin on Sunday.

[Kiwiboss]

In defense of the programme I have to say that it's smaller size made it much easier to carry amd easier to handle in the wind. Other than that I can only agree with previous comments.
I find it interesting that so far no comment has been made about Kiwiboss's turn six spin on Sunday.

Run outta talent :( my bad.....................

[John McKechnie]

Allan- just for you-
I was watching with Foggy and we saw it all right in front of us.
Nice gentle, slow motion, harmless sweeping spin coming out of the DB.
We saw it coming and had a good, indepth dialogue of cause, angle, degree of difficulty, projected exit, amount of dirt to be displaced, estimated number of cars scattering.......just the usual from armchair critics.
Was it just as enjoyable for you talking your car through this Dale, or were you too busy giving us the index finger for laughing.
Discussions also included white boards with 8, 9, and a full 10 from a Daleophile next to us.
There was no visible oil on the track,he was all alone , and no one else copied the Mustang

[Kiwiboss]

Allan- just for you-
I was watching with Foggy and we saw it all right in front of us.
Nice gentle, slow motion, harmless sweeping spin coming out of the DB.
We saw it coming and had a good, indepth dialogue of cause, angle, degree of difficulty, projected exit, amount of dirt to be displaced, estimated number of cars scattering.......just the usual from armchair critics.
Was it just as enjoyable for you talking your car through this Dale, or were you too busy giving us the index finger for laughing.
Discussions also included white boards with 8, 9, and a full 10 from a Daleophile next to us.
There was no visible oil on the track,he was all alone , and no one else copied the Mustang

All of the above and very hard to control while gesturing you and Foggy in the crowd, but it wasn't a spin it was just a "Slide" on the oil from Richard Ryans Torana which blew a sump gasket, he left on the edge of the track. After all its never the driver, must find something or someone to blame Ha Ha LOL BUT at least I learnt from my mistake and didn't do it again.

[John McKechnie]

Seriously Dale, Howard had just pulled his BMW off the track before you got there , he then walked up to the beginning of the DB
Sceenario 1- It was Maybe from Howards car.
Scenario 2- Howard maybe threw a banana skin under your car.......

And sticking to this Thread-
I was going out in HSS race and saw several cars racing with us that were absolutely not in the program for our class.
Those 2 didnt come out with us again.
I am glad I read my program and could quote from it.

[ERC]

Which could well be the subject of some considerable discussion John!

At organiser level, there has to be an on-going dialogue before the event with convenors, when there are specific series groups running. HRC always manage it well, TACCOC even better.

Hopefully, someone from HD is following this thread.

[Kiwiboss]

Which could well be the subject of some considerable discussion John!

At organiser level, there has to be an on-going dialogue before the event with convenors, when there are specific series groups running. HRC always manage it well, TACCOC even better.

Hopefully, someone from HD is following this thread.

The Directors of HMC and HSC intend to review the past season when we have a meeting at the end of this season, the feeling is we need to stick to more "Classic and Historic" theme events and were the event organizers look after these groups and have less concern about the "imaginary spectators" they think they will get.

My fact finding mission to Taupo Saturday was very positive and that event had a lot of feel good, not racing I got to talk with many, including one past Festival vender that wasn't at Hampton the previous week and he was pretty peeved(cost he said). I believe if event organizers are going to turn Classic and Historic themed meetings into more main stream tier 1 or 2 events with non-themed race series classes we will be gone, after all there are plenty of other meetings every summer for our type of classic and historic vehicles. Anyway, these are just thoughts but have come about due to our poor treatment at the Festival, especially the pit garaging situation.

[AMCO72]

It is fairly obvious to me, that the theme for next years festival, Bathurst, is aiming at a completely different spectator group and competitor interest, than the present Classic/Historic bias. I am sure that the homework has gone into this, and it will be a roaring success, but our funny old race cars will be pushed further into the also ran class. Well thats ok, cos I think there are other tracks and meetings we could support, and that is why I asked the question a while ago......did the current owner of HD get the NZFMR brand as part of the track deal ??? If he didnt, then it could relocate to somewhere else with a more user friendly attitude to our class of cars. Do I sense some disappointment in Dales carefully worded piece above..........I dont blame him after all the work that has gone into building the meeting up.

[ERC]

Good posts above. My concern is that given the geographical competitor bias towards Auckland, that for many, HD is still by far and away the best overall venue. (Others may well disagree!) Pukekohe has insufficient paddock space in one spot; no tunnel; too few toilets and too much of the circuit inaccessible.

If HRC were to put on their version of what the Festival should still be (taking into account AMCO's comment) they can promote what they want and would probably get good support, but if the venue imposes extra restrictions and costs, we may still have a problem with viability. The HRC Festival team has worked exceptionally hard over the years, with the obvious support of the international F5000 and Formula Junior fraternity, plus the strongest of the local series - and without a doubt, the grids were improving.

I'm not sure that given Dale's comments and also having chatted to John McKechnie, what future support there will be for the 2018 HD January Festival, from the tin-top brigade. I have no idea where the ERC Series now sits, as a 40+ grid also puts serious money into the kitty.

Maybe the HRC's Tasman Revival meetings will become the real highlights of the local summer meetings? A meeting biased towards Ford and Holden doesn't float my boat at all, as we have enough of that two make nonsense already. Just add the Sing Song Utes and Toyota 86s. That will really bring the crowds in. Anyone who wasn't at this last weekend's HD meeting but took a look at the track cameras could see how crowded that was...

Care to comment JAFA? You were there to compare, even though you only managed Friday of the Kenny Smith meeting.

What were the crowds like at Taupo? Taupo has no spectator cover either, same as HD, which is a worry in the warm weather. Being able to park your car and shelter may be seen as an advantage though.

This thread seems to have drifted off to the structure of the race programme rather than the printed one, but that is no bad thing!

[Andrew Metford]

I'd have to agree with Dale, Amco, and Mr McKechnie. From what I've heard, the new owner of HD is all about modern race cars, and not very interested in the classic / historic scene. Which seems to be halfway clear from the decision made for next years' Festival theme.

I also agree Ray, that the Tasman Revival meetings, while pretty popular and big now, may well be the new premier classic meeting in future years. It already has a good following, so I don't think there would be much required for it to step up. While we may end up with one less meeting in future if the NZFMR goes modern, it may not be such a bad thing at that time of year, with the New Year hangover + several other meetings in consecutive weeks in January.

I've only been to Taupo once in it's new layout, and it wasn't very good for spectating or photos, and as you say, no shade / seating / anything really for spectators.

[Kiwiboss]

Look, I believe the "Bathurst" theme is a great idea, it captures a wide variance of cars from its inception in 1963 until today but its how the organizers wish to go about running it as such, that's my concern, I believe they need to start NOW, contact the coordinators of groups they wish to invite as well as letting those know that they don't, and so on but hey, what do I know? for me personally after 7 years of back to back Festivals I'm due for a break as I may have adopted a bad attitude, LOL.

And for me I want "easier" not "harder" and that didn't happen at this Festival, kicking 6 HMC cars out of the pit bays 3 days prior made my phone run HOT, if they had of been relocated nicely in pre organized marques most would have been happy but unfortunately NOT, this is grief a coordinator DOES NOT NEED when its an event organizer cock up.

Anyway, sorry to highjack your thread Ray, time to move on.

PS: AMCO, I believe Quin purchased the event and brand name NZFMR etc?

[Andrew Metford]

I'm struggling to get excited about the Bathurst theme for several reasons;

1/ It's the NZfmr, not the AUSfmr
2/ When we've celebrated all things NZ, sure then go for other themes, but when we haven't celebrated drivers such as Jim Richards, Paul Radisich, Craig Baird, Greg Murphy, David Oxton, makes such as Begg, McRae, etc, + numerous other names that have contributed a lot to NZ motorsport ( Sir Colin Giltrap + ?? ), I'm struggling to get excited about a Bathurst NZFMR.

And as for the events that unfolded around people getting kicked out from garages, random cars being added to series grids unbeknown to the series organiser, well that's just not good enough.

It was hard enough to support the event this year with the Friday ticketing shambles, going to be even harder next year............

[nigel watts]

Ok so my tuppence worth as a spectator.
I like HD as a venue so please don't shift classic racing to Pukekohe - I'm sure you wouldn't, but just in case.

Bathurst cars could be quite interesting as long as they're not just Ford & Holden. I'd like to see all sorts of Group A & C cars which involved quite a few different manufacturers AND there should be plenty of those cars around this neck of the woods.

If the NZFMR brand is now owned by Mr Quin it does give the opportunity to rebrand classic racing in NZ. I'm sure someone can come up with a suitable brand name.

I went to the Historic GP meeting in Taupo on Saturday and while the grids for F5000 & FJ were really good, the Historic Saloons had about 5 starters - 3 BMW's & 2 Nissans, and the F1 had 5 starters.

I got there really early and snuck in before the gate was manned [Shhh] but did get an official photographers pass anyway BUT if I was a paying punter I might have been disappointed by the low turnout for 2 of the promoted fields.

I feel sorry for the race promoter when this happens, but at the same time I understand the cost and commitment for the entrants.

[ERC]

All relevant Dale. No worries. Certainly not a hijack.

Contact with HD has not been the best and most emails seem to go unanswered. I'm still waiting for the 4 Kenny Smith tickets I ordered... NZ Post or HD? Who knows, but tickets weren't even available to collect the weekend before. Chris always had them available at the early January Taupo meeting. Trying to get your series officials in doesn't seem to be as easy either, unless someone gifts them a driver allocated ticket, so no easy access for the car carrying the printer and computer.

There has up until now, been a huge and growing mutual respect and suppport between race officials, including all MSNZ Stewards, promoters, clubs, circuit owners, series co-ordinators and their drivers. Everyone has been pulling together for the mutual benefit of the Classic/Historic area of the sport. It only takes one sector to be out of kilter for the wheels to fall off.

[John McKechnie]

For a slightly different angle on this theme-
Historic Racing Club have extended an invitation to call the Taupo April 8,9 meeting -The Barry Algie Memorial Meeting.
This is a one off named meeting celebrating our little buddy and so may other innovative NZers that did it their way.
Historic Sports Sedans will be the theme , Kawasaki Mach 3s will be honoured and Sunday can be Blue Dust Coat Day
If we cant have some fun, whats the point
Certainly hope all classes invited there are filled with period correct cars.
We do have our own themes to celebrate whenever TACCOC and HRC run us, and all it takes is discussions with coordinators.

JAFA-My point is also that we simply have so much of our own history to be proud of instead of being modest and thinking that only overseas countries are worth celebrating.

Nigel-Historics is where our group is and we want to keep our cars safe and HD circuits get the nod over current Pukekohe track any day.-especially with your pix

[Andrew Metford]

JAFA-My point is also that we simply have so much of our own history to be proud of instead of being modest and thinking that only overseas countries are worth celebrating.



I couldn't agree more John, very well said.