Geoghegan & Sons Ashfield - where did they advertise? Tracking a 1963 Alfa Sprint

[Geoffrey Cotton]

I'm trying to identify a gap in the ownership of my 1963 Alfa Giulia Sprint 1600 coupe (= Giulietta body + Giulia 1600 mechanicals). The car was delivered to K N Rudd Ltd (Ken Rudd - Ruddspeed - big Healeys, AC Aces, Alfas, Astons) in the UK in February 1963 and sometime after came to Australia, supposedly as a Mildren import. Earliest verified Australian record I have is a receipt for sale on 8 November 1966 from Geoghegan & Sons, Ashfield. At that stage the car carried registration no. EFP164 (probably a 1966 issue number) and was painted blue (pic below isn't accurate colour). Brian Foley owned the car early-mid 1970s and painted it silver. The second pic (provided by Brian) shows the car & him at Amaroo Park, circa 1975. As far as I know the car has no competition history apart from when I ran it in a couple of hill climbs 1n 2007.

I'm hoping that someone will know how & where Geoghegans advertised their secondhand cars in 1966 and that this may help tracking earlier ownership.

The car appears to be the only remaining one of two factory RHD Sprints i.e. a prototype. Although Rudds were Alfa factory-approved RHD converters, it seems the only work they did on this car was to fit it with a professionally-moulded fibreglass dashboard top.

Any leads wil be most welcome.

[Ray Bell]

Though not impossible, it's unlikely it was a Mildren import...

Alec was a new Alfa dealer and wouldn't very likely have been chasing second-hand cars overseas to build up his stocks. He could well have had it pass through his hands as a used car, however, after it was imported. And he could very likely have serviced it at some time.

Stuart Randall would be a good man to ask about that.

[Geoffrey Cotton]

Though not impossible, it's unlikely it was a Mildren import...

Stuart Randall would be a good man to ask about that.

Thanks Ray. I talked to Stuart but he thought it would have been before his time. Also contacted Jeff Mildren who advised that " it was common for us to buy cars in Italy, ship them to Rudds in England for conversion and then import the cars to Australia. We also purchased some cars directly from Rudds to import here in the earlier days." (email 8/6/2016). However, he didn't have any Mildren records from the time.

Do you know which publications Geoghegans advertised in, and whether anyone from their yard in 1966 might still be around?

Thanks

Geoff

[Ray Bell]

Glenn Abbey would have been around, he's in California now...

I'd be surprised if Foles didn't know the history of the car if Alec had sent it to England for conversion. I'm sure he would have had discussions with Alec about the car.

As for advertising a specific car, the most likely place for this would have been the Sydney Morning Herald classifieds. Maybe also the Canberra Times.

[Ellis]

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Peter Cazzaro from Tas at Longford 1966

[Ray Bell]

Ellis, that one's LHD by the look of it...

What is its entered engine capacity?

[Geoffrey Cotton]

Ellis, that one's LHD by the look of it...

What is its entered engine capacity?

It was a 1300 Giulietta Sprint. Gorgeous little car but Cazzarro was a mad driver (he later rolled the ex-Mildren Sandown-winning Giulia TI Super at the hairpin at Symmons Plains). Coming back from Longford in the Giulietta (probably same year as in the above pics) he decided to pass a long line of us in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the laughably-called 'highway' on his way back to Deloraine. When it looked like he was about to smash head-on into the oncoming traffic someone opened up a gap. Much tooting ensued.

Early in 1975 (I think) his panelbeating business in Deloraine closed down and was sold up. I was one of about three people at the auction but didn't bid on either the TI Super (in rolled condition - a bit of a mess) or the Giulietta. I've regretted chickening out ever since. Neither car attracted a bid. I'm told the Giulietta Sprint eventually found its way down to a used car yard in Hobart where it sat forlornly for quite some time, and sold for around a grand. It was, after all, LHD.

Geoff

[Geoffrey Cotton]

Glenn Abbey would have been around, he's in California now...

I'd be surprised if Foles didn't know the history of the car if Alec had sent it to England for conversion. I'm sure he would have had discussions with Alec about the car.

As for advertising a specific car, the most likely place for this would have been the Sydney Morning Herald classifieds. Maybe also the Canberra Times.

Thanks again Ray. Brian's memory of the car was hazy and it's only in the last year that the significance of the car as a factory RHD Sprint has emerged - for a long time the Alfa historical people denied the existence of its chassis number. It was just one in a long line of cars that passed through Brian's collection.

I've started checking out the Sydney Morning Herald ads from late 1966 and while there's no mention of my car in the Geoghegan ads, Frank Crott Motors on 24 September 1966 advertised a 1963 1600 Sprint, blue duco. I guess that would be my car, but it's weird that it went to Geoghegans so soon after that, as they sold it on 8 November - only 6 weeks later.

Geoff

[Ray Bell]

I don't remember much about Frank Crott Motors, but it's altogether possible it was not the kind of car they usually stocked, maybe a trade-in on a 'sensible family car' or something.

In such situations it was not at all unusual for dealers to 'wholesale' cars to other members of the trade. Often a batch of cars might be traded in this way, especially if one dealer wanted a particular car but the other needed to be rid of others as well.

Just to put a possible scenario... let's say Frank Crott had also taken an Elan as a trade-in, the Geoghegans might have been short of used Elans and thought it a good idea to buy this one. Frank Crott might say, "Okay, but you have to take that Alfa too. I don't want to be stuck with servicing that."

Friday Mirrors and Suns might reveal what type of cars Frank Crott usually sold...

[Ellis]

Longford 1966....1570 cc and Gene Cook was the entered driver. Cooky drove both Cazarro cars frequently .
He (Cook) also "assisted" the rollover of the TI Super when Cazzaro was driving it.
By this time they had parted company on not so pleasant terms.

[Geoffrey Cotton]

Longford 1966....1570 cc and Gene Cook was the entered driver.
.

Great pic, Ellis. Funny what time does to memories - I can't remember the car as having a yellow stripe, and I always thought it was a Giulietta (1300) rather than a Giulia (1600) Sprint, so your pic & entry details correct that. Did the entry list show it as only an Alfa Romeo, or also as either a Giulietta or Giulia? In your pic it does seem to have the '1600' badge on the right rear corner of the boot lid - the 1300s didn't have a badge there. The front wheel arch seems to have been enlarged, which is weird - maybe to provide more clearance for the tyre in a heavy turn, because these cars sure roll.

Geoff

PS Do you have any more pics of the car - or of the TI Super?

[Ellis]

39920

39921

[Geoffrey Cotton]

39920

39921

Thanks again Ellis. I'm in email contact with the guy who now owns the TI Super (lives between Rome & Tokyo; collects Alfas) so I'll alert him to those photos.

Do you know how Peter Cazzaro obtained the Giulia Sprint coupe - personal import? The 1600 version was only made 1962-64.

Geoff

[Ellis]

Gene Cook is still around in Melb with his Eng Building business. He worked for Cazarro at same period of time so would maybe know where the car was sourced from.

[Cooper997]

Geoffrey, it's not an exact science, but the Glass's Dealer Guide 1960 - 68 list the NSW registration plates for 1966 as DZL to EJE prefixes. So EFP certainly fits into the Crott/Geoghegan timeframe.

Geoghegan's also advertised in Sports Car World, Racing Car News and various race programmes of the era. Although more pushing their Lotus sales, than secondhand stock.

I assume you've tried the DVLA in the UK for an attempt to get the UK rego history.

Stephen

[Geoffrey Cotton]

Geoffrey, it's not an exact science, but the Glass's Dealer Guide 1960 - 68 list the NSW registration plates for 1966 as DZL to EJE prefixes. So EFP certainly fits into the Crott/Geoghegan timeframe.

Geoghegan's also advertised in Sports Car World, Racing Car News and various race programmes of the era. Although more pushing their Lotus sales, than secondhand stock.

I assume you've tried the DVLA in the UK for an attempt to get the UK rego history.

Stephen

Thanks Stephen, for confirmation of the rego plate date. I've got some old SCWs from the 63-66 era (but not all), but no reference to my car - like you say, Geoghegans ads were more for new cars than secondhand. They also didn't advertise in the Sydney Morning Herald much, unlike the Alfa dealers Mildrens/Crott/Lightburn and independents like R C Phillips.

I tried the DVLA last year but they need the original UK registration (which I don't have) and said that anyway, their records no longer go back that far, following a transfer of their registry to Swansea. Same with RMS here, their records don't go back that far, even though I do have the EFP164 number. Judging from the amount of rust I'm cutting out of the sills, the car may have been in the UK longer than I first thought. Maybe it was someone's personal import in 1966 (rather than a Mildren import earlier), but that still raises the question of why bring it it in then register it just before trading it in - unless Frank Crott registered (or re-registered) it. I'm not sure I'll ever find out, which is a shame, as that's the only gap in its history.

Cheers

Geoff