1972 Benson & Hedges 500

[Milan Fistonic]

The McIntyre/Ellison Fiat 125T had throttle linkage trouble at the start.
35153

The Leonard/E. Sprague leading at the end of the first lap.
35154

The Draper/Hood Fiat 125T in pits after a ding with the Fahey 125T.
35155

Simon Taylor/Alan Curry Charger
35156

Kevin O'Hagan/Pat Groube Ford Cortina GT
35157

?/? Fiat 125T leading the Peter Hughes/Tony Lawrence 125T
35158

[Milan Fistonic]

Ron McPhail/Don Dawson Datsun 1200, Allan Woolf/Garry Pederson Fiat 125T, Rod Collingwood/Ross Johnson Corolla
35160

Ron Rutherford/Errol Inwood Falcon XA, Murray MacDonald/Morrie Baigent Hillman Avenger TC
35159

Geoff Harris/Graham Morris Renault 12 TL, Rodger Anderson/Neville Crichton Triumph 2.5 PI
35161

Leo Leonard/Ernie Sprague Charger
35162

Graham McKerrow/Lin Neilson Valiant V8
35163

Peter Hughes/Tony Lawrence Fiat 125T
35164

[Michael Clark]

Great stuff Milan - these bring back some memories

[Rod Grimwood]

awesome Milan,

[Grant Sprague]

Thank you Milan , brings back great memories as a boy , we loved travelling to Puke......was a great event .

[BMCBOY]

Neat old photos Milan. I was there that day, but a bit early for me to be taking photos. I remember there was a stack of those Fiat 125T's all the same colour. They had some good bits bolted on with the promise that there would be a good number of them assembled and sold, but it evidently never happened. Didn't one of them roll over very early in the race? It was a wet and slippery day - quite a test for the drivers - and I spent most of it watching from the grandstand out of the weather.
I'm sure a few of those Fiats are still racing in Classic's or 125T replicas.

[Spgeti]

They made 82 Fiat 125T's . I have over the years owned 2 of them and one of those being one of the cars in the 72 B&H. I also owned one of the Avenger TC that in this race as well.

[Allan]

I was working at Town and Country Cars in Auckland and was part of the group that went out to Motor Holdings to finish the assembly of the 125T. There are some very interesting stories associated with these.

[John McKechnie]

Was any one else there the day that the decision was made that as not enough 125T were made, therefore they couldnt race.
Carter was pulled off the grid on the start line and left some black lines and smoke while leaving.
They were certainly a neat package.

[Spgeti]

I know that Fiat Italy pulled the plug on the manufacturing of them as they had the 125S which was boring compared to the T. They did not make the homologated numbers I believe John....think it was meant to be 100 or 200 units.

[Spgeti]

There are differences in the numbers built and some go as far as 89 but the figures I saw show 82 to 84. They had to build 200 and Fiat were not happy as it was unautherised. They pulled the plug. Yes a NZ Special and it was a cool package and looked the part in bright yellow, lowered on Ward mags, hotter cams, noisy exhaust and the largest fuel tank you ever saw in a boot.....
Very rare to find a real one these days and number one the show car lives just down the road.

[Allan]

The 125T story is one of these NZ special myths and legends yarns that even I do not have complete knowledge of and I was there at the time and later became the Service Manager for the Torino Group of companies.
The idea came from a South African 125 bought into NZ by Trevor Tapper called the Scorpion. Trevor ran it in a Heatway Rally. Somehow Torinos picked up on the idea and got Peter Hughes who was a mechanic at T&C at the time to develop the concept into something that had the potential to win the Benson and Hedges. The whole deal was done in a hurry and was beset with a lot of minor mechanical issues such as the valve clearances which went out of shim range because the base circle of the cams were ground down to give more lift and it took an eternity to set the ignition timing because one of the distributor cap posts interfered with the front carb throttle shaft.
There are many stories as to how many were actually made and my thoughts put it at about 140 in three different batches, each of which was slightly different, including a slightly different paint colour on at least the third batch. The promise was that there would be 200 produced in a 12 month period for homologation purposes. So they were allowed to compete in the B&H against that promise. I had not heard the Terry Carter story before. I remember a Alan Carter ran one in GTX or similar.
The original batch had the most diabolical throttle linkage set up which produced an all or nothing opening until modified to make them a little more subtle. Great concept though and I recreated one for Ross Macdonald in Waihi whom I co-drove with for many years.

[Spgeti]

Yes Allan the 3 batches were different in colour. The 73 I had was painted Canary Yellow.....Good Ford colour... The 72 was painted yellow over the original red such I think was the hurry to get it out there on the grid.
I bought that car as a project and had been burnt but not badly damaged.. I forget the number plate and whos it was but from memory was one of the South Islanders that ran it.
The 73 after I sold was raced in classic racing down here extensively by Ross Church.
Great cars and my lovely tells me I should go and buy another....

[Milan Fistonic]

This is the entry list for the 72 B7H. Note that numbers 24 & 25 have their car models transposed.

35276

35277

[Grant Sprague]

Bruce , there was a beige colour , my brother drove one the colour at B&H with Neil Cottle I think they came 2 nd over all , its under the sprague family photos , tried to drag it across but would not fit.......showing the car at LEVIN

[Spgeti]

Looking at the list Grant it was the Tom Ward Motors entry. Finished down the order from memory. I have lost my 125 T stuff with rego numbers etc and the technical details as well....bugger.

[Grant Sprague]

35280 Gary Levin 4 hour ???..... this is the car they ran quite well in at Puke

[Milan Fistonic]

It was 1969 that Gary and Barry Cottle ran the 125 in the B&H

[Grant Sprague]

It was 1969 that Gary and Barry Cottle ran the 125 in the B&H Yep that make sense , the car even looks a bit dated to the others , but was a great car that I remember Thank you Milan

[Milan Fistonic]

Yep that make sense , the car even looks a bit dated to the others , but was a great car that I remember Thank you Milan

They actually won the Levin race outright. Ernie rolled his Victor after an axle broke and most of the big cars had tyre troubles. A Riley Kestrel driven by Rod Coillingwood and Alan Boyle was second.

[Grant Sprague]

Yep the victor broke a wheel they use to flex bad [I am sure it was a wheel ] , a few years later i bought one of those 3.3 victors I could not keep the hub caps on it & that was driving on the back roads of south/c lol yes they had a great result at B&H as well in the 125T good drivers good team

[Milan Fistonic]

There's a photo of the Victor in Motorman magazine and it doesn't look like there's any part of the wheel left on the axle or even a brake drum.

[seaqnmac27]

There is also pics in another thread on here Milan

[seaqnmac27]

http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?610-The-Garry-Simkin-Collection-Part-2/page2&highlight=sprague

[Oldfart]

Looks way more like a broken axle to my old eyes?

[John McKechnie]

Leo also had a problem with the Victor wheel at 1st Golden 100 Baypark, .It needed replacing during the race which Grady T won in his Monaro.

[Grant Sprague]

I remember seeing the cracked rims very well from different races Dad had small mild steel discs welded to the inside of some rims ....this could have been after the roll over not sure , but remember when Dad got this car [mine was a E93a pop or 105e ] about that time any way Dad said Son pop down to the creek hotel & get a flagon please I will let the bottle shop man know yr on the way , Weelllll I hoped in this thing & away I went . screwing this car pretty quick .... down the road [in town] I headed , never forgot there were about 3 or 4 cats in the middle of the road or there abouts having a talk or sex , boooooooom ..I knew not to swerve shit happened got the lot but never told Dad not that he would have cared as the car came home ok with the flagon

[Allan]

Does anyone have an entry list for this race?

[Spgeti]

The programe is on page 1 Allan.

[Grant Sprague]

35310This is the same car Rod Ernie &Leo drove

[Grant Sprague]

35311Start of an other 500 mile race ........... Ernie & Leo

[John McKechnie]

#30-Nice Rebels and R10 in the background.
At Motor Specs we sold Borg and Back clutchs at this time.

[Steve Holmes]

I'm confused about the Fiat 125T's. If there weren't enough built, how did they get to contest the race?

[Spgeti]

Considering that production started in 1972 perhaps the entry was accepted on them meeting the 200 Units over the 12 months that followed.
They were certainly not standard Fiat 125 and as Allan stated based on the South African 125 Scorpian.
Certainly confusion Steve but how many other NZ Specials met the 200 units....Datsun 1200 SSS....Avenger TC....

[John McKechnie]

Steve- they were allowed to contest so long as enough were built.
Being a local build, time was allowed
This didnt happen within the time frame- Bruce has more info.
At Pukehohe the decision was made to not allow them to continue, and they were pulled from the grid of the race.

[Spgeti]

They were allowed to race in the 72 B&H but for 73 they were pulled as the 12 month production did not meet the required 200. They continued production in to 73 but by that stage Fiat Italy stopped any further production as in their word it was an unauthorised racing programe.
I am pleased to say that I learnt this morning that my 72 T that I owned is being restored and the 73 T I know is still alive and well.

[John McKechnie]

My knowledge from that time was that this 125T done in NZ was actually superior to the Scorpion.
And of course it didnt look good for the l NZ one to be better.
Any body got a similar recollection?

[Roger Dowding]

I'm confused about the Fiat 125T's. If there weren't enough built, how did they get to contest the race?

Steve, same issue in recent times well early 2000's when Holden ran the 427 V8 engined Monaro's, on the basis they would build them..
and has happened over time in many classes of racing and rallying. The intention was taken as the word..

[John McKechnie]

And of course LJ Torana XU1s would be factory with V8 308s if Evan Green hadnt opened his big mouth.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks for the info everyone, all makes sense now. These were once fairly regular sights at classic racing events, though I've not seen one now for many years.

[Allan]

I don't know if FIAT South Africa had much to do with the decision to pull the pin on production. I would imagine that warranty issues were more likely the reason.
Allan

[Spgeti]

Thanks for the info everyone, all makes sense now. These were once fairly regular sights at classic racing events, though I've not seen one now for many years.

One might just becoming to HSC

[Steve Holmes]

One might just becoming to HSC

Wow, that would be pretty special!

[Steve125T]

Hello everyone, Ive just found this site and joined straight up. By way of introduction I'm in Perth Western Australia and have been campaigning an original Fiat 125T for about 8 years in Historic motorsport mostly here in W.A.,with various trips to other circuits in the east.
35814
I have a well compiled history file on the car including all photo copies of the registration book. I believe, as other previous owners have, that this car competed at the B&H 500 in 72 but as yet I have no actual proof. I would be grateful if we could, with input from the knowledgeable members of this forum, find this out. The original number plate was GG7963 (I still have those plates) and the car was first registered to Town & Country Cars Auckland in August 1972. This car went on to have some 14 owners between then and June 1974 (including Maurice Thompson for a while in 73) according to these records. I do have a photo that was published in the Australian publication Sports Car World in 1973 showing this car crossed up coming out of a corner with all the sponsors logos still in place.
35815
I will try and get that photo and the article scanned and post it here.
Any info greatly accepted. If anyone has any questions about the ins and outs of keeping on of these fantastic NZ only cars in active competition then just ask.
Cheers
Steve

[Spgeti]

Hi Steve, I am making some enquires and will come back to you.
Did you buy the car from NZ or from someone in Aussie ?

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve125T]

Thanks Bruce
I am not the one responsible for removing the car from NZ, that was done by an ex pat Kiwi who purchased it and had it shipped over in 2000. I bought the car from him in 2007 and have been thrashing it/maintaining it ever since. He purchased the car from Maurice O'Reilly of Tauranga. In the photo (rear quarter view) you can just make out a Fiat Club Waikato sticker.
A couple of photos taken in 2015 at one of our "Round The Houses" events.
35817
35818

[Spgeti]

Hi Steve,

It was not the one I was thinking of. An Ex pat kiwi in Sydney purchased a T off a very good friend of mine quite a few years ago ex Manawatu.
I think from memory it belonged to Fred Parker of the Manawatu Car Club and it had no B&H history.
The Ex Pat had it for sale a few years back.
We will check the regos for you and get back to you.

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve125T]

Hi Bruce
As far as know there are 3 genuine 125T's in OZ. Mine in WA, one in Vic (for sale) and one in QLD (for sale). The car in QLD is the ex Tim Bailey- Roy Harrington car GH6701 which came 3rd outright.

Cheers
Steve

[Steve Holmes]

Great introduction Steve! Thanks for joining, and for sharing pics of your beautiful 125T.

[Spgeti]

Hi Steve, yes according to the register your car GG7963 was raced in the 72 B&H by Hughes/T Lawrence car # 33.

Cheers
Bruce

[speedsterboy]

I have twice owned the ex Paul Fahey/ G. Lawrence B&H car registration GG8049. I found it in 1989 in south Auckland with a jacked up rear end tearing around driven by a girl racer. I started restoring it before realising it was too much work for my teen skills , sold it then bought it back 5 years later from the guy in Rotorua I sold it to. He restored and raced it but sad to say he reshelled the car and transferred all the chassis numbers and plates across. It was hard to drive on the road as it was all or nothing , set up for racing more than anything. I sold to to a guy from CHCH who flew to Auckland and drove it back.
I rescued another that was about to have a ford V6 transplant and sold that to Nigel Derbyshire who was an ex Maurice Thompson / Fiat centre mechanic who then restored it and sold it on . I can't remember the plate of that one.

Last time I watched a good race with 125T's was the Ardmore Shell classics with 3 entered. Have some great pictures that I will try to upload.
Am currently racing a Fiat 128 rally after 20 years away from Box car Fiats... Would love another 125T though...

[Kwaussie]

Link to the one in Melbourne for sale. http://www.carpoint.com.au/used-cars/FIAT/125/model-make.htm

[Steve125T]

Thanks Bruce
To read that post and be able to know definitively that GG7963 really did start the race is absolutely fantastic. Then to find a period colour photo of it is brilliant. Now I would really like to know whether the car finished the race, and if so in what position.
I knew quite a lot about the car going back to the late 80's when Maurice O'Reilly bought the car. He raced it in Historics in the late 80's & early 90"s with some success I believe. He also competed in the inaugural Targa NZ in this car. Please if anyone can elaborate on these things we'd love to hear about it. I must commend Maurice for the work that was put into this car in his ownership. They spent quite some time & effort on this body in the early 90's. It was fully seam welded and a bolt in roll cage was installed. The car shows no sign of ever having been rusty and repaired. A testament to the quality of this work is that I have been able campaign this car through 8 seasons with no significant maintenance to the body and little deterioration.

Cheers
Steve

[Steve125T]

By the way this car has been kept in the spirit it's history deserves. It still sports a a Fiat 125 series 1608 engine with it's original spec Dellorto DHLA40 carbs, 4 speed gearbox and Fiat 4.1 axle (with LSD centre added). Original brakes (good pads) and original period option 6" x13 Ward wheels with modern R Spec track rubber. The engine has been "tuned" but only by way of traditional means - cams, compression etc and a decent set of headers. It is still on points ignition. Below is a link to a clip from inside the T at our annual event around the middle of the City of Albany at the very Southern part of WA, we call these events here "Round the Houses" events.
Turn it up - or better still get some speakers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFPTzszkSzg

Cheers
Steve

[Steve Holmes]

This is great info guys. Do you want me to start a dedicated thread on the Fiat 125T's, and copy your related posts to it?

[Spgeti]

Yes I think along with all the photos and info would be great Steve.
I will see if I can get more info re the Register as well.

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

OK done, new thread here guys: http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?2049-Fiat-125T

[tony lowe]

Does anyone know of a Red Honda 1300 9c that was supposedly entered by Honda Asia in the 72 B&H but was homolgated out , and was it the ex Bathurst car from 71??

I am sure at least one 125T rolled , I trade a pre-roll repaired one for 20,000 fly traps and Dies , was just talking about them with an Oldfart today

tony lowe