Willis Family Commodore Sports Sedan

[Rod Grimwood]

This is my version of events :

Back in the mid 70s, Lindsay Willis went on a trip to the States. He visited a lot of speedway tracks and also meet up with guys who built speedway cars. What we called 'saloons' back then. Lindsay was a very good competitor in stockcars (NZ Champion, doesn't get much better) and was also building stockcars for other people. When he returned he had the knowledge and skills so built a space frame car for speedway the first here, it had a glass Torana body put on it. Lindsay built a lot of stockcars and a few saloons in between running a business.
Lindsay and his son Brett who was also an accomplished stockcar driver were at meeting in early 1983 (believe at Bay Park) watching and looked at some of the Sports Sedans, and Lindsay decided he could build one of these. Remember back then Sports Sedans were mainly floor pan cars with some having fronts and/or rears framed but no all space frame cars were made then.
So in August 1983 history was started in the construction of NZ Sports Sedans.

These are some photos that Lindsay has given me to copy of some of the build of the Willis Commodore.

Unfortunately Brett and Lindsay have hunted all over and tracked the car as far as they can but believe it has gone. They were keen to rebuild it and race in Classic Sports Sedans.

Following are photos of the build etc.

First photo is a well known one of car at Bay Park with rear spoiler etc more on that later.

Second is what Brett raced before, and of coarse constructed by Lindsay.
Note name on rear guards.

[Rod Grimwood]

The early work on the frame. Note the rear end which later changed.

[Rod Grimwood]

Starting to look like a weapon

[Rod Grimwood]

Many hours of work starting to take shape. Dummy engine for fitment etc. The tube cover for carbs was replaced later with Perspex as modifications were done during racing and testing over couple of years.

[Rod Grimwood]

This was a big project and a lot of hours went into construction and fabrication. New panels were used o make the body moulds and this was time consuming job.
Lindsay on his knees painting frame, Brett on body sanding and thinking 'this is never ending' sanding, fill, sand, undercoat, sand.

[Rod Grimwood]

Getting colour on, this is when you start to believe, 'we are nearly there'

[Rod Grimwood]

Looking real good, nice new and shiny,

[Rod Grimwood]

Just about ready to go and test

[John McKechnie]

Thank you for posting this Rod.
A really epic story that needed to be told...with lots of pix.
Frank Gardners Corvair was the first space frame saloon I ever saw.
But this,this is kiwi built

[Rod Grimwood]

First meeting and first time on track, This was Pukekohe October 6th 1984. Exciting times and the car sure attracted a bit of attention, especially at scrutineering. They had never seen a full space frame car and it had them scratching heads a little bit, but Lindsay had done home work all was ok. Other competitors were very interested and after first couple of runs, became more interested.

In 2nd photo with people gathered, I am having chat with Lindsay at back of car and Robert Connell (Chawfy) is standing beside door chatting to Brett in car

3rd and 4th photos the tension is building,

Note there is no rear spoiler or much aero gear yet.

[Rod Grimwood]

Waiting to have another practice run, with Brett watching his mate from Rotorua Ralph Mossman with his very quick Viva, Ralph had and still has a big involvement with Brett racing back then and now. They have done a great deal together over the years.

That's another story.

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, EPIC thread Rod, and one of my favorite cars of the era.

[Rod Grimwood]

Good company to do first meeting with, and they soon were paying a bit of attention to the team and car as meetings progressed.

[Rod Grimwood]

Photo from first race at Pukekohe and then couple months later on to Bay Park.

Local paper write up.

Only photo I have of myself and Brett, practice at Bay park.

[Rod Grimwood]

Local paper report.

You will see in write up about the rear being a little light, this was time for the rear spoiler and other aeros.

[Rod Grimwood]

I am downloading more photos and resizing on later developments.

[Rod Grimwood]

Couple more photos from 1st meeting at Puke.

This was a club day and look at the size of field.

Second photo has Commodore in company on grid for practice with Mazda Of Hyslop that is still racing now, behind is Ian Knight in the V8 Escort and white 302 Capri was Terry O'Brien a real good bugger and it was quick.

[ERC]

http://www.theroaringseason.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34231&d=1458873370

[Rod Grimwood]

Yea saw that photo, good one. Post it on here if you like.

[Bailey]

Wouldn't the Graeme Addis charger be the first space frame sports sedan built ?
That was around 1977 or '78 from memory

[GD66]

Gardner's Corvair was running in late 1976.

[Rod Grimwood]

Wouldn't the Graeme Addis charger be the first space frame sports sedan built ?
That was around 1977 or '78 from memory

No it still maintained the floor ect.

[Rod Grimwood]

Gardner's Corvair was running in late 1976.

Talking NZ

[Spgeti]

Great thread Rod. Enjoyed the photos and the background. I went to school with Ian Knight.

Cheers
Bruce

[Rod Grimwood]

The Car grew aero help along with new bonnet ducting for radiator.

It was easy to work on as panels unscrewed and in you went.

[Rod Grimwood]

Over a couple of Seasons and many changes, the car became a force to reckon with. Brett had his share of wins and was mostly in the top 4.

After a practice shunt when a link broke in the rear and Brett give the fence in front of main stand at Puke a good bash which shortened the car half way to back window. They put car in trailer and back to Rotorua. They appeared at the track the next morning with the car like new. Trevor Crow and John Osborne were there and could not believe the car was fixed. Oz said 'mate if that was my car it would be buggered for a couple of weeks.
Lindsay showed and explained how it was built with main frame and from rear window was a sub frame that came off and they just replaced with a spare one, replaced fuel cell and couple of lines, fixed fibreglass, sprayed paint on, did square up measurement and there it was.
Oz was impressed. John actually became very close friend over the coming years of battle.
Oz actually had a off in the Targa one year outside of Rotorua, he got in touch with Lindsay and that night the magic wand was waved over a very bent Nissan. Oz restarted the next day, and always spoke of it.

More on Oz later as I will go through a few more of the cars and little bit of the Willis history.

The second photo is actually from one of the South Island Trips when Munty parked in the door.

[Rod Grimwood]

These are from a early South Island trip with North Sports Sedans VS Open Saloon Car Association (OSCA) test
This were the damage from previous photo happened as can when guys are into it.

3 Musketeers from North Sports Sedans Jim Short, Ralph Mossman in middle and Brett on right. This photo at Bay Park before they left.

[Rod Grimwood]

Brett had a couple of good seasons in the Commodore and with associations that Lindsay had developed in America and as Lindsay says 'the main reason for the USA trip was to get some better parts for the Commodore as they were sick of breaking parts' so it was decided that time for a look at racing in USA and maybe Trans Am.
So in 1987 Brett, Ralph, and a couple of other mates from Rotorua hit the sky and off to America.

I will post short information on what happened (not all of it) shortly along with some photos.

This was not the end of the Commodore but really the recreation of it when the boys returned. This later also.

[GD66]

Great yarn Rodders, too many race cars and their hardworking, inventive and self-funded teams work hard without reward or recognition. To get the guff from inside on the build and the development of the car is a rare and fascinating insight, hats off son.

[Rod Grimwood]

After 3 years of racing the Commodore in both Islands and as mention about breakages etc the Rotorua crew Brett, Ralph, Ross and a couple others headed off on the big bird to take a bit of Kiwi to Trans Am. Well there was a couple of Kiwis already over there racing Trans Am and they lived a slightly different lifestyle to this crew.

First impact was a van with a open trailer with tent etc tied to it and guys getting out in shorts, jandels sometimes a t-shirt and just unloading and getting sorted. No team of 6 in same shirts and trousers and caps unloading a big transporter, Na this was a whole new thing to them fancy boys.

The van was home-transport-workshop and also any other shed the boys could borrow to use to work on car. Quite a few Americans actually became to like the guys and helped out after a couple of meeting when the first impressions changed a bit. (that's the Yanks and the Kiwis who were there already)
The guys actually made a lot of friends with the American teams all over the country who helped out with accommodation and workshops for the guys to rebuild the car between meetings.

The transporter was how the others lived (at the track) and if the boys went near they had to be very quite and slow as not to be noticed. The jandels and shorts gave them away.

I will give bits on the trip shortly once I get a couple things clarified by Ralph. Ralph was the team manager (yea right) mechanic (now that he is good at) and social director (also another thing he is very good at) Ralph did have to become a diplomat, guidance councillor and legal advisor on the odd occasion.

This year when we were at La Guna Seca for the Rolex Classic with the F5000, Brett and Ralph meet up with some of the other guys they raced with in the Trans Ams and spent time with, and it was a great reunion. One bloke stood there looking at the guys and slowly walked over and looked at Brett and Ralph and cracked up laughing, saying " I thought I will never see those crazy Kiwis again when you left back then.' They made a little impact on some people, and a fairly large impact on others.

[Rod Grimwood]

Right, story starts, not all of it, but enough for us to know.
The boys were single back then, and this has relevance later.
The boys arrived in LA, spent about 10 day looking around for a race car, there were a lot for sale, but they were all buggered or not really what they wanted.
Went to LA, San Dieago, Santa Barbara and all over.
They went and caught up with Spinner Black who was in a wrecking yard cutting up cars and engines etc. to send back here. Spinner was covered in crap but welcomed the guys and after a chat convinced Brett to buy a van as you could sleep in it and carry gear, better than a truck.
Spinner organized for the guys to see Max Baker a well known engine man from NZ who was in Costa Mesa LA who knew a lot about cars for sale etc.
Max was situated in Gentry Engines workshop and did the Offshore Power boats engines. When the guys arrived Max meet them and said 'you guys look like you need a beer' which was correct. Max took them to a bar called Zuebies Bar which had a sawdust floor, hoops to shoot ball and was a workers bar with mechanics and all sorts there. While they were talking and having a beer, Max said to Brett, 'drop back in tomorrow morning, I know of guy who has a Trans Am and is going through divorce'. The guys crawled out of the bar and had bit of sleep then the next morning the guys dropped into see Max and he told Brett to go and see this guy as he would do a deal. So off to Santa Barbara.
They found the place which took 2 street fronts and had Corvettes for miles, they sold and leased them and had huge service centre.
Brett meet with the man, Bob Brewer who had a Trans Am car for sale. Know Bob was the 'All American Hero' blue eyes, blonde hair etc. They had a look at the car and as all dealers do were told 'it got good history, this is a real good car' (more on this later). The deal took along time to sort as what Bob wanted was a fair bit more than Brett wanted to spend. Brett and the guys had a meeting and Brett explained it would be 1 meal a day and sleep in van if they got it. The guys agreed and deal was done. Along with spare engine and gearbox, and assorted suspension bits.
Now this is were Ralphs skills come in very handy. While Brett was doing the deal Ralph had a wander around and notice an office right at the rear of the main building that was not in use. Ralph wandered back and had a chat with Bob and said 'well its going to take a few days for the money to come through, so how about we camp down in your unused office at back of building until the money has arrived and we can work on the car'. Bob agreed and they cleaned out the old office and that was home as it worked out for couple of weeks. As usual the guys got to know the staff well and one morning when they thought it was the weekend the guys in their scamps were out back of yard/building having a shower with the jerry rigged hose they had made a shower out off and there was socks and grots hanging up to dry on back fence, when the office girls walked around the corner on way to work, they could not believe the set up and laughed all day. The staff and guys all went to local bar or had beers in old office and worked on car most days and nights. On the final night the boys put on a BBQ for all and Bob Brewer had friends come over and join in along with staff, it was a big night. The guys went down well with every one and they could not believe how the guys just lived and got on with it and always happy, laughing.
In between all this the boys did a lot to the car and had it in good shape when it came time to leave.
They went too a Taco Bar and Ross tried to talk to locals (Mexicans) to find out which food was what. After getting ah ha 3 times from different groups, Ross shrugged his shoulders, turned to the counter and said '3 F*&^ken cheese burgers please' apparently the place erupted in laughter.
Also at this time they found a Ford van and got it sorted out for the big trip. it did not have a tow bar so around the corner to get a tow bar. Now here is the Mexican thing again. Brett goes in and asks 'do you have a towbar to fit the Ford van' the guy looks at Brett turns his head and wanders down the counter and serves some one else. Ross just looks and asks same, but no reply. Ralph being the diplomat, jumps the counter and picks up a towbar and says, 'do you have one of these for a Ford van' silence, then the Mexican nods his head and says 'you be wanting the hitch or the reciever'. Well with great restraint the boys sort it out and after a easy job made hard had a Reciever (towbar) for the van.

Couple of photos of car at Bob Brewers yard which was home/workshop for couple of weeks.

Will give rough history of car later. at this stage it is about 5 years old

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes that is a younger Ralph, remember this is 1st time to the States and no one knew of 'DENNYS'

Getting car ready

[Rod Grimwood]

The guys found a van but could not find a trailer, They got put onto a guy Jack Bender who ran a Formula Atlantic team and had a trailer business. Brett rang him and talked and he said for them to come over and he may be interested in sponsoring them a traier for the trip. Now they found out he was in Chicago 1/2 way across the State. so they get a U-Haul (as Ralph says F*%K All) trailer and modify it with cars wheels up on guards tie everything else on and off they go. After showing were they were going on Ralph famous map they left Bob Brewers in Santa Barbara and he said ' look after yourself boys because you aren't going to make it to Chicago".
Well it took 3 days to get there and it was a steady climb for 1 and a 1/2 days with actually getting to 55mph at one stage, the poor ole van was struggling, any way all the way they went over the Rocky's and at one stage were going so slow up the Rocky's that Ross got out ran up the road and took some photos of them and then hoped back in side door as they got to him. At this time Ralph looks at the map and height and lets the boys know that they are higher than Mt Cook.
They had no money so stayed at truck stops and washed up there etc.
When they arrived in Chicago they had another look at map and then realised 'this is a big country, we only come that far' then they meet Jack Bender and he was full of it and there was no sponsor deal, apparently they were not what he expected, what did he think he was getting, maybe the van and trailer looking like the Beverly Hillbillys put him off. Any way he did find a trailer that would suit, so out into the back country to meet these people. They did not know what a bank cheque was, it took a lot of talk to have deal done. So off back to town with new trailer. Put new guards on it and then down to register it (nothing suspect in them country folk, but Ralph said it was good to get out) any way the lady at the post office says were you from, Ralph 'NZ', lady 'ah ha ha were that' Ralph explains and she looks at him and says 'ah ha, now you need to be having a local address,' Ralph explain they were travelling. Lady 'ok then you take this sticker and put it on trailer until you find an address, it last 30 days ok.' Ralph 'well thank you mam' and off they go with 30 days rego on trailer. Ralph did this each month for 6 months until they came home. As I mentioned before Ralph is manager, he's a smooth dude with them there country girls.

They explained the trip to some locals and they all looked at them and said 'you came over the Rockys, trucks go around another 2000 miles to miss that road and it's quicker'

Well more of travels tomorrow starting with the meetings and goings on.
And couple more photos hopefully I am trying to get some more.

[bigbanger]

The first 'full space frame sports sedan' in NZ was the PDL Mustang II, which predated the Willis Commodore by about 7 years. Pics attached show the bare space frame chassis amongst others. http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/History/Racecars/PDL2-5.jpg

[Rod Grimwood]

Yea correct, don't forget the words Sports Sedan

Commodore built for North Island Sports Sedans which were 6 ltr max.


Added:
Maybe I should have clarified North Island Sports Sedan Association.

[khyndart in CA]

Rod,
I wish I had known you when you here in the Santa Barbara area. I think you were at the Corvette place by the freeway near Carpinteria, would that be correct ? Anyway great stories of your adventures in the US. Thanks for sharing. You also came across Spinner sorting through "stuff" here also !
"Paton & Black" engines;
I may have mentioned this before but when Spinner was a lad at Kiwitahi he sold my sister a horse (It probably wasn't his to sell !)
When Annette got it home it was so frisky she couldn't get a saddle on so she gave it back to (Spencer) and got her money back. The next day,(Wilbur) the horse broke out from the Black's paddock and walked / trotted the 3 miles down the road to our house. I think we kept the Wilbur and never gave "Spin" any money for the horse ! So our families go back a long way..I think they were about 12 at the time, so that is over 60 years ago.
I used to play bare foot footy with John Paton when we were lads and his sister married my best friend.
So when I saw this on the Willis car, it brought back many memories even though we are many miles apart.
See Rod you did not know your writings and photos would have such an effect on someone.. well done.
34338


(Ken Hyndman )

[bigbanger]

Post the 6 litre Shellsport Saloons, the PDL 2 then known as the Torro Toys Mustang was ran in NI Sports Sedan events against the likes of Jim Richards in the Big M Falcon. Incidentally, the PDL 2 also had a 6 litre engine.

[bigbanger]

Sedan (automobile), a passenger car in a three-box configuration with A, B & C-pillars and principal volumes articulated in separate compartments for engine, passenger and cargo
Sedan meaning 4 doors......Commodore.

Yeah right, so you are saying '2 door' cars like Ian Algie's Alfetta, Wayne Huxford's Capri, Graeme Addis' Charger and Barry Algie's Monaro and a host of others were not 'Sports Sedans' and ineligible for NI Sports Sedan Association events? Tui billboard time.

[khyndart in CA]

Rod,
There must be something about the sulphur or the water in Rotorua as it seems to have turned some very good race mechanics over the years. These are the guys that work all hours and get very little acknowledgement and deserve a thread of their own.
The Willis team guys are one example. Graham Donaldson who worked for years at VDS and other teams won the respect of many drivers such as ; Graham Hill, Tony Brise, Alan Jones etc and they all trusted Graham's preparation. Joe Wright was also another very well known race mechanic from Rotorua and I know there are many others that I have not mentioned.
Thanks guys, we will get a thread going for all race mechanics. You are the ones that make it happen.



(Ken Hyndman )

[Oldfart]

Baker brothers?

[ERC]

Yeah right, so you are saying '2 door' cars like Ian Algie's Alfetta, Wayne Huxford's Capri, Graeme Addis' Charger and Barry Algie's Monaro and a host of others were not 'Sports Sedans' and ineligible for NI Sports Sedan Association events? Tui billboard time.
Isn't the wording SPORTS sedans?

[THEDROPSHOP]

Quote Originally Posted by Bailey

Wouldn't the Graeme Addis charger be the first space frame sports sedan built ?
That was around 1977 or '78 from memory

Quote Originally Posted by Rod Grimwood

No it still maintained the floor ect.

Incorrect Mr Grimwood. Graeme's original 'Wild Wheels' space frame Charger Sports Sedan had its floor removed in 1975
It was built as a full space frame without a floor.
The only original Charger sheet metal retained – roof, A B and C pillars, front windscreen cowl, partial firewall, partial sills, partial rear guards, partial rear panel.
Definitely no floor, no front rails, no rear rails.
Full space frame, centre section of seamless hydraulic tube, front clip of ERW tube, rear clip seamless hydraulic tube, removable body panel support gantries ERW tube.
Used 3 alloy plates to reduce front to rear racking of space frame - 2 of these plates were motor plates, the 3rd was a diaphragm brace in the lower section of the main B pillar hoop.
This work pre-dates the Willis Commodore by more than 8 years. I have pics if needed.

[Rod Grimwood]

Rod,
I wish I had known you when you here in the Santa Barbara area. I think you were at the Corvette place by the freeway near Carpinteria, would that be correct ? Anyway great stories of your adventures in the US. Thanks for sharing. You also came across Spinner sorting through "stuff" here also !
"Paton & Black" engines;
I may have mentioned this before but when Spinner was a lad at Kiwitahi he sold my sister a horse (It probably wasn't his to sell !)
When Annette got it home it was so frisky she couldn't get a saddle on so she gave it back to (Spencer) and got her money back. The next day,(Wilbur) the horse broke out from the Black's paddock and walked / trotted the 3 miles down the road to our house. I think we kept the Wilbur and never gave "Spin" any money for the horse ! So our families go back a long way..I think they were about 12 at the time, so that is over 60 years ago.
I used to play bare foot footy with John Paton when we were lads and his sister married my best friend.
So when I saw this on the Willis car, it brought back many memories even though we are many miles apart.
See Rod you did not know your writings and photos would have such an effect on someone.. well done.
34338


(Ken Hyndman )

Ken I was not on this trip, but just thought it was good idea to 'Fleece a bit of history from the boys'

[Rod Grimwood]

Yeah right, so you are saying '2 door' cars like Ian Algie's Alfetta, Wayne Huxford's Capri, Graeme Addis' Charger and Barry Algie's Monaro and a host of others were not 'Sports Sedans' and ineligible for NI Sports Sedan Association events? Tui billboard time.

Big Banger sorry but you got it wrong, and missing the whole thing.

Big Banger, thanks for your input, and I think we all actually do know about the PDL11, Hey no one said any thing about those cars you have mentioned not being Sports Sedans, because they were. As you mentioned the PDL11 was a few years before in NZ motorsport and never was a Sports Sedan , and sorry Jims Falcon was a Aussie version and never ran in NZ Sports Sedans. Sorry buddy but it was before Sports Sedans became a class, the class became may be because MANZ squashed the 'other class'
Also PDL11 did not run as 'Sports Sedan' in Aussie either, as it was not accepted and ran as invitation.

And sorry but I do not want be getting into a shit fight but just trying to bring a bit of 'History out' in regard to part of Sport Sedan Association history, North Island, You had OSCA, South Island, which to credit still runs and is awesome.

And talking of history 7 Litres ring a bell.

Any way sorry I got bit pissed off, but did feel there would be some one too F*%k a good ole story, so that be it.

yea we need to get it right, but for F*^k sake there is life north of cook strait.

Sports Sedans Association was formed after the others and MANZ F&%ked it and needed somewhere to race their 'different' cars, and Bay Park took it on (with severe hassle from MANZ) but they stuck with it and along with Taupo (new then) Car Club and Sports Sedan members becoming members of Taupo Club and Auckland and running at club meetings which quickly became big meetings.

Sorry no shit fight intended, but horse's for coarse's. I love the PDL11 and more so the original car as it progressed through life.

[Rod Grimwood]

Quote Originally Posted by Bailey

Wouldn't the Graeme Addis charger be the first space frame sports sedan built ?
That was around 1977 or '78 from memory

Quote Originally Posted by Rod Grimwood

No it still maintained the floor ect.

Incorrect Mr Grimwood. Graeme's original 'Wild Wheels' space frame Charger Sports Sedan had its floor removed in 1975
It was built as a full space frame without a floor.
The only original Charger sheet metal retained – roof, A B and C pillars, front windscreen cowl, partial firewall, partial sills, partial rear guards, partial rear panel.
Definitely no floor, no front rails, no rear rails.
Full space frame, centre section of seamless hydraulic tube, front clip of ERW tube, rear clip seamless hydraulic tube, removable body panel support gantries ERW tube.
Used 3 alloy plates to reduce front to rear racking of space frame - 2 of these plates were motor plates, the 3rd was a diaphragm brace in the lower section of the main B pillar hoop.
This work pre-dates the Willis Commodore by more than 8 years. I have pics if needed.

Sorry guys. but it started as a ?
Then modified as you quote, and had.
"The only original Charger sheet metal retained – roof, A B and C pillars, front windscreen cowl, partial firewall, partial sills, partial rear guards, partial rear panel."

I am trying to just do a bit of history on a car, and it never had any of the original, so were are we.
Graeme's was a time changer in our sport but started life as a car.
Do we understand.
PS I love the car, and it's owner/driver is a good bugger as well.

Sorry Thedropshop,

[Rod Grimwood]

Now you can all get into it as I am off fishing tomorrow until Sunday, please do not put too many tricky bits on, as I may be tired on Monday and grumpy.

PS good to have at least got the memories working, 100dreds of cars and 1000s of people involved over the years and maybe you can all do a thread on your experiences and cars etc. Long time dead guy's, don't take them with you (some parts you can take with you OK) share those stories and bits and pieces, (even if bullshit/not quite right) it is ' OUR HISTORY OUR SPORT, AND PASSION'

See you all next week

[rogered]

Good Grief!! Bigbanger, you guys are picking holes in F#$K All. and in the process wrecked what was a great story.

[bigbanger]

Nothing wrong Rod with telling the story of the Willis contribution to our sport and I for one enjoyed the story to date, but the fact remains the Willis Commodore was not the '1st Full Space Frame Sports Sedan' and entitling your story as that will bring out those who will point out the facts concerning the PDL Mustang II and the Addis Charger pre dating it.

If I can address you other comments;

You wrote ' Hey no one said any thing about those cars you have mentioned not being Sports Sedans, because they were.' I was replying to John McKechnie who wrote to the effect to be a sedan as in sports sedan, the car had to have 4 doors (Commodore) which obviously is not correct. Hence my examples of 2 door sports sedans.

You wrote 'the PDL11 was a few years before in NZ motorsport and never was a Sports Sedan , and sorry Jims Falcon was a Aussie version and never ran in NZ Sports Sedans.' To have been a 'sports sedan' it's not necessary for a car to have competed in a NI Sports Sedan Association race, the term was not nomenclature specific only to the SSA and the term was widely used in the post 6 litre (yes it was 6 litre) Shellsport days in the late 1970's and early 1980s. This includes the period when the PDL 2 ran in several races against both local and visiting Australian cars (including the NZ (Murray Bunn) built Big M Falcon of Jim Richards at Baypark etc.

But please continue with the story, I'm interested in hearing more on the Willis MX6 Chev and later.

BB

[bigbanger]

Good Grief!! Bigbanger, you guys are picking holes in F#$K All. and in the process wrecked what was a great story.

The facts or a 'good story' - you choose?

[Habu]

Damn. I was really enjoying the story on this car, and the innovate guys who built it. I'm just old enough to remember most of the late 70's / early 80's Sport Sedan cars.

I appreciate that aspects of the stories thread title may not be historically accurate to some, but come on, Mr Grimwood has taken the time to post photos and a write a story about a car and adventures of a bunch of young fellas who were out there doing it.

Trainspotting's great if that's what your into.

Give the man some credit.

[bigbanger]

Damn. I was really enjoying the story on this car, and the innovate guys who built it. I'm just old enough to remember most of the late 70's / early 80's Sport Sedan cars.

I appreciate that aspects of the stories thread title may not be historically accurate to some, but come on, Mr Grimwood has taken the time to post photos and a write a story about a car and adventures of a bunch of young fellas who were out there doing it.

Trainspotting's great if that's what your into.

Give the man some credit.

I can't see where anyone has knocked Rod personally on this thread, and nor can I see any failure to give credit for the story.

However for the sake of historical accuracy, there really should not be an issue where people (as several have) point out factual errors.

Sometimes people like yourself Habu may effectively say 'never let the facts get in the way of a good story', but given that internet postings live into the future and may be treated as fact when they actually are not, there's a good reason for others to raise the issue of the factual error.

My understanding is that Rod will continue with his story on the Willis' exploits and I'm sure we're looking forward to that

[Habu]

I can't see where anyone has knocked Rod personally on this thread, and nor can I see any failure to give credit for the story.

However for the sake of historical accuracy, there really should not be an issue where people (as several have) point out factual errors.

Sometimes people like yourself Habu may effectively say 'never let the facts get in the way of a good story', but given that internet postings live into the future and may be treated as fact when they actually are not, there's a good reason for others to raise the issue of the factual error.

My understanding is that Rod will continue with his story on the Willis' exploits and I'm sure we're looking forward to that

The intention of my post was merely to acknowledge that someone has bothered to take the time to write an article, I enjoy accuracy as much as the next person. Pretty sure Chopper Read would have been impressed with your analogy of my interpretation of the story bigbanger.

Looking forward to future instalments

[Steve Holmes]

Er, OK, well this one has got a little side-tracked hasn't it. Its good to discuss the merits of ground breaking cars such as this, and I guess most of the above replies are correct in their own ways.

To my way of thinking, the first space-frame sedans that raced in New Zealand were the Allan Moffat and Red Dawson DeKon Chevy Monza's. These were built in the US and arrived in NZ in late 1975.

The first NZ built space-frame sedan would have been the PDL Mustang II, which first raced in late 1976. The Addis Charger would be next?

Both the PDL II and Addis Charger utilized an original production body shell in which all the not-required sheet metal was cut away and new fabricated fibreglass panels purpose built as replacements.

From reading Rod's early posts, the Willis Commodore was the first NZ built space-frame car to use a completely fabricated body shell. So all the fore-mentioned cars are really pretty ground breaking in their own way.

Anyway, keep the pics and info coming Rod. This is a great thread.

[Rod Grimwood]

Just received some more photos and info so more shortly.

[Rod Grimwood]

I have changed a couple of bits in earlier posts, I did not really check spell etc.

Ok, I am relaxed,(kind of so don't annoy me) after being bashed around on the sea for couple of days.

A bit of history on the Trans Am that Brett bought.
A lot of this was not discovered until after the trip.

Part of recollection from Ralph, this from a note he wrote for John Telfor who has Ralphs old Mazda RX7 explaining how it got to have the gear it has. this is another story for later:

I (Ralph) went over with Brett as his mechanic and we travelled around the USA and Canada in an old Ford van and open trailer (we lived out of the van and meet other racers all over the country that we stayed with and rebuilt the car for upcoming meetings, a real budget deal, and quite a story as everything we owned was on the trailer behind us) This Camaro was quite famous in itself (although we only realized it years later after we had cannibalised it)
It won the 1984 trans Am series with David Hobbs driving. It was car number 28 of a 2 car team owned by Portland Industrialist De Atley and sponsored by Budweiser beer in USA.
This Camaro Trans Am was based around a Stock Car Products road race chassis from Santa Fe Springs n California. it had coil over suspension all round with 3 link quick change rear end, non-power assist rack and pins steering, front and rear anti-roll bars and a rear watt linkage that was attached around the differential pinion snout.

Another note on car, this from Ralphs diary notes dated 1 January 1986 and also includes the Fischer Engine data.
1984 Chevrolet Camaro, originally built & run by De Atley with Chevrolet factory backing. In year Brett bought car it was reskinned by Bob Brewer with 1986 panels developed by Proto Fab Moulds available thru Fischer Engineering.

[Rod Grimwood]

The guys travelled to Memphis and made camp in an unused shed and finished off final preparations for the 1st meeting.
This was exciting time and when they arrived at the Memphis track there were all these big trucks and trailers and huge marques erected around the pit area. They spotted a pole with a water tap on it away in the corner away from were all the others were set up and thought well water that's handy for us, we will set up there.
They attracted a little attention (looks of what the f%#k we got here) and were not overwhelmed with autograph hunters or photographers (David Attenborough was busy elsewhere).
They settled in and erected the hospitality/pit/accomodation tent and then set about final prep of car.
Well that night they discovered why no one was set up near the 'water tap' as they were lucky to survive the night when the mosquitos came to visit. Next morning was shift.

There was a couple of switchs on dash that attracted attention, and were never used.

Well in a field of 40 cars and never having seen the track let alone drive around it Brett qualified in the 30s and remember he was up against the best from those days and budgets a lot different to baked beans and bread.
1st race and a finish of 21st, not too shoddy for starters. 2nd race 16th so a few were kind of taking a little interest and they started to meet a few people. The Americans could not believe that they had driven all the way in the van and trailer and the tent and van was home between some empty sheds etc.
Accomodation/sleeping quarters was to become a bit of humour in some places.

[Rod Grimwood]

Next meeting was 2 weeks later and way on up too Mosport. Canada.

It was along haul and in between this the guys pulled the car apart, checked it over and replaced little things, did a couple of adjustments and banged her back together.
Well when they arrived at Mosport there were the familiar looks from some but a few waves from others who made themselves known at 1st meeting in Memphis and they were impressed that the team had made it all the way to Mosport.
Pity the weather was not as kind, as after the effort to get there it poured with rain 1st day and then rained for the next 2 days of practice and qualifying. Well what do you do when you have no wet weather tyres, of coarse just sit in van and tent and wait, and eventually give up and resort to a quite beer.

Well race day was drizzly and the track still wet/damp but not saturated. Brett had not done a single lap around the track in a car and was allowed to start off the rear of the grid. This was on slicks and had people looking. Well after the race which was 40 laps long and he came in 10th, the Ford and Chevrolet Teams stood at the pit apron and applauded him into the pits. He also had a standing ovation from the stands and others along the pit wall. Not bad for the trailer boy's.
Well of coarse this did change attitudes to the NZ guys and they made a lot of friends as time went on. The US teams did not underestimate them and helped with workshops and other assistance over the next couple of months.

[Rod Grimwood]

Couple more photos, of how it was when it rained and the Camaro coming down the hill/straight that leads onto the main straight at Mosport.

[Rod Grimwood]

More shortly

[Rod Grimwood]

Off this weekend with boys to Hampton to give the Can Am Lola sports car a run, so hopefully will sort out a bit more to add to what I have. Been busy and it is not going to slow as off to Barbagello with F5000 mid Oct and then 2 weeks later Sandown. So story will be on back burner. There is a lot of history in the parts that came from the Camaro.

[Rod Grimwood]

I am going to get back to this and history of parts from Trans Am, where they went and where they ended up.


But more importantly, I recieved an email this week from Lindsay Willis with some photos of a special visiter who dropped into say hello. Lindsay and Graeme Smith have been friends for a very long time and he was the first sponsor Brett had, 1st stock cars and then Commodore. Graeme was at most meetings and a very nice person. Well he is now a young 80 and still has the original T-Shirt for the car and showed it to Lindsay.

This is neat, 34 odd years later.

[Steve Holmes]

Wow thats so cool Rod!