New Zealand Historic Saloon Cars Under HRC

[Steve Holmes]

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[Steve Holmes]

The second new HSC car is the stunning MkII Escort RS2000 replica of Ken Northin. This car was actually built by HMC racer John Sampson, and is every bit as stunning as John's Ford Capri.

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[Spgeti]

Our next events for HSC are as follows :

Tasman Revival, 13/15th January Hampton Downs.

This is run on the National Circuit and close of entries are the week before.

NZFMR, celebrating Ken Smith, 19/22nd January, Hampton Downs

This is run on the International Circuit and close of entries is the 16th December.
Please get your entries in for this event asap please.

Details can be found on:

www.motorsportentry.com

[Steve Holmes]

This is the latest New Zealand Historic Muscle Cars/Historic Saloon Cars legends poster I just completed, and which will be available at the Tasman Revival at Hampton Downs in January. Jack Nazer will be on-hand to sign copies.

Thanks to Terry Marshall for the beautiful photos.

Dale Mathers has organised to have Jack at the event, while Mike Coory at Health House is printing the posters.

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[Spgeti]

Well it has been a while and The Tasman Revival and the NZFMR are well done and dusted.

Quite a bit on other threads have been said regarding the Festival and some fantastic photos have also been put up on other threads as well. Special thanks to Nigel Watts for his input and also to our own Phil Noble and Jim Lester as well. The photos are fantastic.

I would just like to welcome Darryl Monk from Wellington who joined us at NZFMR in his beautiful Mazda RX3.

We now move on to The South Island Tour starting next weekend at Levels, Timaru and then on to the deep south to Teretonga.
I wish to thank the guys who have entered and we are sure to have some fun. Steve is going to Teretonga and myself to Timaru so if you are around please do stop of for a chat.

Cheers
Bruce D

[Oldfart]

Great poster Steve, hmm, how to get one to the UK!

[Spgeti]

Great poster Steve, hmm, how to get one to the UK!

Grovel and send him a pm, he might even have a signed one !!!

If not I have one that you may have.

Hope your are enjoying your English weather Rhys.

Cheers
Bruce

[Oldfart]

Grovel and send him a pm, he might even have a signed one !!!

If not I have one that you may have.

Hope your are enjoying your English weather Rhys.

Cheers
Bruce

Hi Bruce, yes I am actually enjoying the weather, almost as dry as northland has been way less wind, and I do know what season each day will be, all day. Temperature in double digits :)

[Grant Sprague]

Beautiful Escort ....

[Spgeti]

Beautiful Escort ....

It is currently for sale Grant.

If anyone is interested please contact me.

bruced105@gmail.com

[Spgeti]

Our last race meeting for the season is this weekend at HD, Legends of Speed. We look as if we will have a combind grid of close to 20 which is great for a smaller meeting.

We have quite a few new cars joining HSC, a Triumph Dolomite Sprint, ex Aussie Group C car now in NZ and another Mk1 Escort RS1600, BDA powered of course.

We also have had enquiry from the new owner of the Nazer Escort which is now living in Feilding. Hopefully we will see that car in the future as it would add very nicely to our historic Escort group.

We also have had an enquiry from the new owner of the ex Jim Crystal Worsley 1500 that was raced for many years by Jim and is a very well known car.
He is restoring the car back to match its COD and will be a welcome addition to our group and will boost our early car group.

Hopeful to be able to get some photos up of these cars soon.

Cheers
Bruce

[Jac Mac]

Our last race meeting for the season is this weekend at HD, Legends of Speed. We look as if we will have a combind grid of close to 20 which is great for a smaller meeting.

We have quite a few new cars joining HSC, a Triumph Dolomite Sprint, ex Aussie Group C car now in NZ and another Mk1 Escort RS1600, BDA powered of course.

We also have had enquiry from the new owner of the Nazer Escort which is now living in Feilding. Hopefully we will see that car in the future as it would add very nicely to our historic Escort group.

We also have had an enquiry from the new owner of the ex Jim Crystal Worsley 1500 that was raced for many years by Jim and is a very well known car.
He is restoring the car back to match its COD and will be a welcome addition to our group and will boost our early car group.

Hopeful to be able to get some photos up of these cars soon

Cheers
Bruce

Might be a few hours yet before the ex Nazer car arrives, given that it just passed my road gate about 1/2 hour ago!

[Spgeti]

Legends of Speed done and dusted. Great weather, great racing, no incidents and greet people.

Our next event is the HMC/HSC Seminar, 20th May, 11.00am, Bruce McLaren Trust, Shed 47, Hampton Downs.

If you are interested in old car racing please come along and learn about our groups.
Please bring your own refreshments.

Any questions please contact Dale or myself.

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

I'll let Bruce Dyer fill in the details here. Third photo is by Ray Green.

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[Spgeti]

Arthur Vowles has bought the ex Jim Crystall Wolseley1.5 litre Racing Saloon.
Jim raced this for many years and in the mid 90's had a serious crash. My understanding the car was never repaired and sadly Jim has passed on.
Arthur purchased the car and has started the restoration of this much raced saloon.
The car is to be sympatheticly restored and has been accepted to race in HSC.
The Worsley is to be powered by as Jim raced it by 1800cc MGB B series engine and equiped with a HRG Derrington cross flow head as per period. The heads were manufactured from 1956 to 1970 for the B Series engine.
This a welcome addition to our grid and will join Anglia's, Alfa Giulia's, Falcons Sprint and Jaguar Mk2's from that early period.
Arthur is a well know racer and also is very welcome and has raced since the 60's.
Jim Crystall was I understand one of the original orgainisors of the BMC Intermaque race series.
A great tribute to Jim and any photos and information is very welcome.

Cheers
Bruce

[dekon]

Arthur Vowels has bought the ex Jim Crystal Worsley 1.5 litre Racing Saloon.
Jim raced this for many years and in the mid 90's had a serious crash. My understanding the car was never repaired and sadly Jim has passed on.
Arthur purchased the car and has started the restoration of this much raced saloon.
The car is to be sympatheticly restored and has been accepted to race in HSC.
The Worsley is to be powered by as Jim raced it by 1800cc MGB B series engine and equiped with a HRG Derrington cross flow head as per period. The heads were manufactured from 1956 to 1970 for the B Series engine.
This a welcome addition to our grid and will join Anglia's, Alfa Giulia's, Falcons Sprint and Jaguar Mk2's from that early period.
Arthur is a well know racer and also is very welcome and has raced since the 60's.
Jim Crystal was I understand one of the original orgainisors of the BMC Intermaque race series.
A great tribute to Jim and any photos and information is very welcome.

Cheers
Bruce

Bruce, it's Crystall, and Wolseley !!

[Spgeti]

Thanks Dekon, will correct.

[Paul B]

Very cool to see some more period cars coming out of the woodwork. Especially with the background this one has.

[Spgeti]

Very cool to see some more period cars coming out of the woodwork. Especially with the background this one has.

It has always been one of our aims is to build a group that the older smaller saloon owner will be attracted to.
We would like to see Mini's, Mk1 Cortina's and Mk2 Jaguar's in our group.

[ERC]

Jim Crystall was I understand one of the original orgainisors of the BMC Intermaque race series.
A great tribute to Jim and any photos and information is very welcome.
Cheers
Bruce
Just for the record, Donn White created the BMC Series but after ten years, there was a major dispute between Jim and Donn regarding the last round and as a result, Donn walked away from the BMC Series.

I was asked to take it on by Derek Prior.

At the end of my first season, where Jim was equal winner with Nick Wilcox, we made the change from 1 scratch race and 1 handicap to 2 handicaps, as this was less biased towards the faster cars, which was partly the reason for Jim's stance.

Jim stalked off with the BMC Trophy tucked under his arm, muttering that I had 'turned it into nothing but a lottery'. Jim failed to hand over the BMC Trophy to Nick after six months and it was in fact several years before it was returned. (By then, Jim's health was in decline and he'd given up racing.) Meanwhile Jim I believe was indeed involved in the Inter Marque Series, but it was nothing whatever to do with the BMC Series, which was renamed the Leisuretime Series and then split to add the Tracer Series, but both under the same rules and structure and under the overall umbrella of the ERC Series.

It is important that the history is accurate and there is much more I could add about Jim's involvement but this is not the place!

Fantastic that the car is returning to the tracks and I look forward to seeing it.

[Spgeti]

Thanks Ray.

[Kiwiboss]

July 2017 HMC and HSC Newsletter

Bruce’s Ramblings: I would like to thank everyone that came along to our Seminar on 20th May at the McLaren Trusts new workshop premises. The cars on display certainly added to the atmosphere and Steve Holmes talk on the history of saloon car racing in New Zealand was very informative and outlined the path we are heading down.

New face along for HSC was Shane McConnell from Tauranga who is building up a Mk1 RS2000 with bubble flares. Welcome Shane, we look forward to seeing you and your new car out on the grid in the near future. We also welcome Todd Gower from Rotorua who has purchased ex Clyde Walters Mk3 Cortina 2000 and he has completed the T&C COD and sorted the overheating issues.

The “Why Be” Facts

One of the subjects that we often get asked by interested people wanting to come and join HSC is in regards to their restored Mk1/2 Escort that is powered by the YB Cosworth engine and why we do not allow it in our group.

I will answer this as briefly as possible but there is a lot written about this if you care to search in Google.

The YB engine was developed by Cosworth for installation in the to-be newly released 1982 Sierra. The engine is based on the steel Pinto block, hence why we get asked as we all know the Pinto single overhead cam engine was produced in the Escort from 1973 onwards up to the end of the Mk2 Escorts life in 1981. That basically is where the similarities end......

The heads were of course twin overhead cam manufactured in a variety of models suited for variations of the Sierra. They bear no resemblance to earlier twin cam heads produce by Ford for the Escort and all use electronic fuel injection coupled in some versions with a turbo charger.

The same applies to the Type 9, 5-speed gearbox again manufactured in 1982 for the Sierra and uses the same front housing as the Type E gearbox but with a completely different tail housing. While this bolts up to the Pinto block without modification the same cannot be said for the rear mounting. This requires removal of the mounting, shifting it back and also modification to the tunnel for the shifter hence outside of the rules applying to Schedule T&C, Schedule K and FIA Appendix K for our group.

We also are frequently asked about the ‘Holbay’ twin cam heads developed and homologated for the Mk1 RS2000. These heads were made in very small numbers and are not exactly replicated today. What is available today from Warrior and Smith & Jones is not homologated to use in our country for historic racing in our group at this stage.

The crux of the matter is that we deal in pre 1978 saloon cars so you can see that the Sierra engine and gearbox is out of the period that our group represents as the manufacturing date is 1982 and it was not a production engine or gearbox for the Mk1&2 Escort.

Yes we have seen some superb Escorts using this technology and yes there are some cost advantages and horsepower gains in using the YB engine and we can sympathize with those wanting to go down this route but simply for us it is using modern technology that is beyond our date range and does not fit our criteria.

[Kiwiboss]

MSNZ Appendix 6

There are differences between HMC Schedule T&C and what HSC use. HSC follows the MSNZ manual and the difference in rules does add to some confusion.

Historic Saloon Cars is broken down into three distinctive sets of regulations. They are as follows:

1: Schedule T&C. This is for production based cars made in quantities of 100 plus units. T&C requires the car has the appearance of a standard production vehicle. Therefore, no flared wheel arches are allowed unless a production item. So too, most of the interior is required to remain intact. However, T&C allows some additional freedoms, such as a 1 inch increase in wheel diameter over the standard model.

A good example of a T&C HSC car is Mike Coory's Datsun 240K. This car has been built to the full advantage of T&C but retains its upholstery and glass, but has 15 inch period rims taking advantage of the 1 inch creep on wheels and uses the factory production flares from the GTR of the same model. It uses the period correct larger L28 engine in lieu of its smaller brother the L24 to which a L28D crank is use to stretch the capacity out to 3.1 litres all within the 12.5% allowable limit under the regulations.

2: Schedule K. This is for actual period race cars or original production cars with homologated parts. MSNZ originally drafted up Schedule K regulations several decades ago to give owners of old, outdated racing cars with NZ history, a place to race them in their period guise.

Good examples of a Schedule K car racing in HSC is John Dennehy’s ex-Don Halliday MkI Escort, Rayden Smith’s ex-Jim Richards MkI Escort and David Thompson's ex Auto Trader Shell Sport Escort. Schedule K cars are usually allowed to be presented, both mechanically and aesthetically, as they did in period, even if this means they don’t fit either T&C or Appendix K rules.

3: FIA Appendix K. Appendix K are the regulations used for historic racing in other parts of the world, most notably the UK and Europe. Under Appendix K rules, each make and model that competed in a significant FIA saloon car championship in period should have its own Homologation Sheet, which is essentially the set of regulations specific to each individual car. These Homologation Sheets are what Appendix K rules are based on for modern day historic racing. HSC have access to most of the FIA Appendix K rules and are happy to supply these to anyone interested in building an Appendix K car for HSC.

One of the advantages of building an FIA Appendix K race car is that you will own a car that is not only historically very correct to what was being raced in period, it’ll also be eligible for almost any historic racing event anywhere in the world. Granted, if you do wish to take your car overseas, you will need to apply for a Historic Technical Passport (HTP). The HTP is your cars paperwork that proves it is correct as of the Appendix K rules, and gains it entry into international events.

In addition, if you build a car to Appendix K rules, you’ll find it to be an extremely good investment, and, if you one day choose to sell it, and providing you’ve got an HTP for it, you’ll have a car that has a worldwide market. Appendix K cars with a current HTP are worth several times more than cars not built to these rules. Eg, Appendix K MkI Escort twin-cams with an HTP are regularly changing hands in the UK and Europe for in excess of 100,000 pounds (roughly 115,000 Euros): https://www.motorsportauctions.com/category/358/Historic-Touring-Cars/listings/38885/Ford-Escort-RS1600-20-BDG.html

A good example of an FIA Appendix K car racing in HSC is Howard Wood’s BMW 2002 Tii Group 2 replica which has been built to these exacting regulations.

At the moment we have four cars being built to FIA Appendix K; Paul McCarthy's Mk1 Escort RS1600 with the very special BDG 2 litre engine, Grant Sprague’s with his replica Mk1 Escort RS1600 and again with the BDG 2 litre engine, Paul Berkahn with his replica 1964 Falcon Sprint, Monte Carlo Rally with light weight panels and our own Steve Holmes with his 1968 Pontiac Firebird being built to Trans Am specifications.

The Roaring Season features build threads on both the Falcon and Firebird.

Paul’s Falcon Sprint: http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?2214-BUILD-THREAD-For-1964-Falcon-Sprint-to-Monte-Carlo-Rallye-FIA-spec

Steve’s Pontiac Firebird: http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?2195-Build-Thread-The-Roaring-Season-Firebird

Just to note that the BDG alloy 2 litre engine was not a production engine for the Escort. It was a homologated engine for competition use only.

Because Appendix K cars are accepted in HSC, you also have the option of purchasing and importing an Appendix K car from overseas to race with HSC.

What you cannot do in HSC is mix and match the rules from T&C, Schedule K and Appendix K into one car. You must choose the rules you want to build your car to, and stick to them to the letter. For example, a MkI Escort built as an Appendix K car is allowed forest flares, as used in period, but must also have period correct 13 inch diameter wheels. There is no 1 inch wheel creep.

To clarify Schedule T&C we allow as per the MSNZ Appendix 6 rule the following:
1 inch increase in wheel diameter over standard at a maximum of 15 inches on standard production bodies and after that there is no 1 inch creep. Also allows for polycarbonate glazing to side and rear windows as long as the same fixing medium is used as per standard.

You are allowed some period modifications to the body as long as it still looks correct. You are allowed painted bumpers and in some cases allowed without bumpers subject to approval.

You are allowed to use a larger engine but it must be from within the pre 78 date range and from the same production series. IE: Pre Cross Flow Ford, Alfa 105 Nord Twin Cam, Datsun L Series Single Overhead Cam, BMC A Series and BMC B Series as examples.

Engine wise you must be within 12.5 % of the engines capacity with a maximum of a 60 thou over bore.

You are allowed to fit period performance parts, ie: Weber Carburettors, Mechanical Fuel Injection, Arden Heads and HRG Derrington Heads are some examples.

Gearboxes must be as factory installed for that model but you are allowed close ratio gear sets. If a part is difficult to source we will look at alternatives in conjunction with MSNZ.

Escorts with bubble or forest flares must only use 13 inch rim size to keep that period look, so no creep is allowed.

As a side note some of our cars do have the incorrect gearbox and that is a relic from the past. We have accepted this in good faith and we are working with these owners over a period of time to correct this and in no way is it our intention to stop them racing or enjoying themselves. However, we will not be accepting new builds with incorrect gearboxes as they will not get a COD under today’s regulations.

T&C is not the same as Schedule K or FIA Appendix K so if in doubt please ask.

Some of the homologated extras are not allowed on your T&C car which is based on a production vehicle, not a period race car with specialized non production race engines and light weight panels. If it was produced in numbers of 100 plus units on a production line it is a production vehicle.

Those of you building an FIA Appendix K car with a HTP needs to advise MSNZ of your intentions and remember that these cars must be exact. Please talk to Dale or Tony Roberts if your car fits into this category.

Remember that if your car has a Schedule K or FIA Appendix K COD you cannot change the specification. If you are considering doing this you need to talk to one of the Directors first as you run the risk of having your COD classification being deemed invalid.

So, if you’re considering building a car for Historic Saloon Cars, take some time to first consider what it is you want from your historic racing. If you already own a very nicely presented road car and want to develop it further for historic racing, and feel that fitting it with period modifications, such as flared wheel arches etc will take away from the cars originality, then Schedule T&C is likely the best option.

If you want to build and race a car that is completely correct to what was being raced in period, then Appendix K is likely better suited to your requirements. In addition, if you would like to perhaps race your car overseas at some stage, then building an Appendix K car to FIA Schedule K rules gives you that option.

I hope this has clarified the differences in our groupings that run under HSC and the differences between HMC T&C rule and Schedule T&C that HSC use.

Our objective of HSC is not only to preserve history but is to build a grid of not only historic period NZ racing saloons but restore to the grid period correct classic saloons along with FIA Appendix K racing saloons.

Hopefully in the future to be able encourage competitors from overseas to bring their cars to NZ and have the knowledge that they will join a group of Pre Dec 1977 saloons to race with and that they are racing in a historic group with historic rules that are subject to auditing just as they do overseas.

[Kiwiboss]

MG Classic Meeting, Manfeild, Circuit Chris Amon. 10/11/12th November.
As previously notified we have arranged for garaging in the main stadium, $150.00 plus GST for the 3 days.

IMPORTANT: Those of you who are interested please contact Dale or myself to book your space before 30th July. I have to confirm numbers on the 30th. So don't miss out as I have managed to extend the date by one month.

You will be invoiced direct by Manfeild with payment due 30th October.
We are also arranging for the Friday night dinner and Saturday BBQ after racing.

The Manfeild Suite has also been booked for Saturday and Sunday as we did last year.
If any of you want to sponsor this room please contact me direct to discuss.

Taupo Great Lakes Meeting, Bruce McLaren MotorSport Park, Taupo. 7/8th April 2018.
This is the Barry Algie Memorial meeting and is very low key.

Tania Allingham and I are hopefully going to arrange a social evening as this being our end of season event. Now that we have confirmed the meeting we can now start work on it. It will be a Saturday evening event. I would like to thank Tania for putting her hand up to help so she will be on your case regarding this so please assist her by replying to her requests

[Ross]

I was interested to read about Jim Crystall, and his Wolseley.
I don't remember this car but I do recall a J. Chrystall from Taihape who used to race am Austin A50 in the mid 60's, especially at Levin.
Any connection?

[Spgeti]

Yes Ross, the same person.

[Kiwiboss]

Terry Price MK2 Jag soon to be coming to the Historic Saloon Car group...........great build in progress, watch this space.

[Spgeti]

I first visited Terry June last year after an intial meeting to discuss his project. The Jaguar at that stage was just a shell. Terry has followed Schedule T&C in his build and the car is to replicate the "Combes" Mk2 Jag look.
The Jag of course will be powered buy a 3.8 sporting D Type cams and triple 2" SU carbs, back to a 1970 XJ6 4 speed synchro gearbox, LSD etc. Front brakes have been updated to ventilated discs.
15x8 inch Minilite replica wheels and shod wit Hoosier bias treaded tyres to keep that period look.
The car is to be painted in a metallic BRG, all interior including rear seat and all wood put back in.
Terry's business is Restorations Unlimited in Whanganui and the car is to represent his work.

This will be a great addition to HMC/HSC pre 66 grid which is steadily growing in numbers.

[John McKechnie]

Excellent to see he is keeping the great revving 3.8
Nice set of triple two inch Skinner Unions there........
Cool to see some more real racing MK2s out there with their distinctive bellow --. Millen, Silcock,SID 1, Westall, Ure and others

[Spgeti]

We also have another FIA Appendix K build starting. To add to the 2 Mk1 Escort RS1600 BDG's of Paul McCarthy and Grant Sprague we have one of our legends joining us. Rob Halliday has been discussing his build of a Mk1 Escort RS1600 BDG with Dale and myself over the last few weeks and has committed to this build.
Welcome Rob we look forward to seeing you and your car on the grid.

Rob says he just wants to have fun and race with Hillsy and John Sampson....isn't that great.

[Andrew Metford]

What has happened to the Capri GAA that Hallidays were building? On the back burner now for the Escort?

[Spgeti]

What has happened to the Capri GAA that Hallidays were building? On the back burner now for the Escort?

No the Capri is still being built and has just recently been painted.
The Escort is a new project.

[Paul B]

We also have another FIA Appendix K build starting. To add to the 2 Mk1 Escort RS1600 BDG's of Paul McCarthy and Grant Sprague we have one of our legends joining us. Rob Halliday has been discussing his build of a Mk1 Escort RS1600 BDG with Dale and myself over the last few weeks and has committed to this build.
Welcome Rob we look forward to seeing you and your car on the grid.

Rob says he just wants to have fun and race with Hillsy and John Sampson....isn't that great.

That is great, its looking really good with quite a few more cars being built. It will be great to see a many and varied field of Appendix K cars.

[Steve Holmes]

Grant Sprague posted these photos and info on his exciting new FIA Appendix K Escort on the Historic Muscle Cars thread, but given the car will come under HSC I thought I should re-post here:

Collected Escort from Auck , had custom cage fitted from UK by Shores Fabrications West Auck... this complies to FAI Appendix K code .....1.2mil lite weight c/moly all tigged, photos & test pattern & forms will be sent back to UK for signing off as to FIA requirements , the car will be 100% appendix K as can be raced any where in Europe with correct code , all alloy cosworth BDG .. 4 speed , period AP brakes , atlas etc...the car will be new, most of the parts all UK & USA ...

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[Steve Holmes]

Not great photos but showing watts linkage , & fabricated boxes for the four link , this chassis is like new , no rust or past damage..

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[Howard Wood]

Last month I visited a workshop in the UK run by a couple of ex Broadspeed guys. They had 2 genuine, well known and completely unmolested Mk1 Broadspeed BDA Escorts there being restored. The amount of tubbing in the rear wheel arch area was unbelievable, chassis rails were notched and the inner guard had a spacer inserted. I asked them if that was homologated, their reply that was exactly as done in period. They showed me period photos of the mods and as they were the guys who did it originally who can argue!

I guess that argument applies to a painstaking restoration of a genuine car with history, possibly less compelling with a new build which should follow the homologation sheet however if a "interpretation" of the rules was common in period, does that make it allowable today?

[Spgeti]

That is a very good point Howard. As you know when building your car these rules they are not easy to interperate and sometime the facts take a lot of research to find the answer.
The proof I suppose must be presented, with documentation and photos.
While the Falcon Sprint builds are happening we have found a huge amount of disparity in what is acceptable between different cars overseas.
Did you manage to get any photos?

Kind Regards
Bruce

[Howard Wood]

The ability to manipulate a clever interpretation of the rules (or legal resources to defend it) of a few notable individuals has always been part of Motorsport.

The Falcon Sprint is a perfect example and by the time the race guys had latched onto the somewhat dubious weight homolgation, Ford had already moved on to promoting and developing the Mustang. I bet there are a heap more historic Falcon Sprint race cars than ever existed in period!

I was visiting the workshop with the Broadspeed Escorts as a guest and given I was inside the "secret project" area, I thought whipping my camera out might not have been advised, so unfortunately, no photos.

Of course some of these mods/ cheats which were done in period can be redundant in a replica historic car anyway. For example those wheel arch modifications were done to the Escorts (and the Capris too) to allow the super wide tyres in use at the time to fit inside the homologated bodywork. Current race tyres are not as wide and many historic series mandate tyre size anyway. These guys were more concerned with presenting the car exactly as raced in period. Even down to having newly CNC machined parts having a period finish complete with machining flaws!

[John McKechnie]

Comes down to what the owner wants-
1-a Historic car.
2-a Racing car

[Spgeti]

Of course some of these mods/ cheats which were done in period can be redundant in a replica historic car anyway. For example those wheel arch modifications were done to the Escorts (and the Capris too) to allow the super wide tyres in use at the time to fit inside the homologated bodywork. Current race tyres are not as wide and many historic series mandate tyre size anyway. These guys were more concerned with presenting the car exactly as raced in period. Even down to having newly CNC machined parts having a period finish complete with machining flaws![/QUOTE]

You are totally correct Howard. The historic cars get away with these mods....but I today that tubbing is not allowed as we have it in our FIA rules covering replicas.
Well we try to...

[Kiwiboss]

Last month I visited a workshop in the UK run by a couple of ex Broadspeed guys. They had 2 genuine, well known and completely unmolested Mk1 Broadspeed BDA Escorts there being restored. The amount of tubbing in the rear wheel arch area was unbelievable, chassis rails were notched and the inner guard had a spacer inserted. I asked them if that was homologated, their reply that was exactly as done in period. They showed me period photos of the mods and as they were the guys who did it originally who can argue!

I guess that argument applies to a painstaking restoration of a genuine car with history, possibly less compelling with a new build which should follow the homologation sheet however if a "interpretation" of the rules was common in period, does that make it allowable today?

Great discussion Howard but No I don’t believe it does…………with original race cars one needs to pick the era in which to restore it to, as the same car can have a lot of evolution during its racing career, some Escorts and Capri might not have been tubbed the year prior?. Historic Trans Am in the USA is a good example as many of their cars ended up modified to the next generation Tran Am rules and IMSA from the mid to later 70’s and onwards, HTA have said all cars must be put back to their 66 to 72 specs, the prime years of this class otherwise are not allowed in, their class directors have controlled this and done a great job and all the cars are the originals restored accordingly and they have big fields(I have learnt from them).

What the FIA Homologation papers allow for is you to build a NEW old car today to a conforming set of regulations which allows a lot of people to relive a bygone era. The Historic Trans Am example I give above won’t allow these new builds as they want original cars. But it appears at events like Goodwood(and others) they do allow these new builds but from what I’ve been told(and seen) they have strict enforcement on what one can get away with using the FIA homologation form to set the standard, it seems at other lesser race meetings they will allow some modern technology slippage(Tru-tac diffs in Falcon Sprints been one) so I guess one could build a FIA car to the homologation papers and determine the info as “they” see it but it seems the event organiser and/or class coordinator will have the final say.

Offcourse down here in NZ with less population and kiwi thriftiness we’ve had to find a medium ground. We have allowed new replacement engine components as long as they are a “like part” and the Jerico/Tex101 dog box is another example because making everyone use an old Toploader or Muncie would be too costly with the constant breakages and the supply source drying up, I have used my American racing contacts to base this info on and also what they do in SVRA, VARA and other classic USA groups that race using non-original cars. I believe we have got it pretty rite but in any dispute its up to our 4 HMC/HSC directors, 2 Tech auditors and 1 MSNZ commission member to have the final say because the moment you let the racers decide the rules you will lose the Historic and Classic theme and become just another race series. Dale M

[Howard Wood]

By and large I agree with your arguments Dale but my original point was that here are two genuine and unmolested Broadspeed Escorts being restored by some of the same guys who built them in period. Absolutely not some replica or car which had a 30 year history of continuous and dodgy modifications.

These cars are having mega money thrown at them to EXACTLY restore them to original yet actually don't appear to comply with either the period rules or current Sched K regulations. Which is not to say that the restoration is not stunning nor accurate.

[Steve Holmes]

The ability to manipulate a clever interpretation of the rules (or legal resources to defend it) of a few notable individuals has always been part of Motorsport.

The Falcon Sprint is a perfect example and by the time the race guys had latched onto the somewhat dubious weight homolgation, Ford had already moved on to promoting and developing the Mustang. I bet there are a heap more historic Falcon Sprint race cars than ever existed in period!

I was visiting the workshop with the Broadspeed Escorts as a guest and given I was inside the "secret project" area, I thought whipping my camera out might not have been advised, so unfortunately, no photos.

Of course some of these mods/ cheats which were done in period can be redundant in a replica historic car anyway. For example those wheel arch modifications were done to the Escorts (and the Capris too) to allow the super wide tyres in use at the time to fit inside the homologated bodywork. Current race tyres are not as wide and many historic series mandate tyre size anyway. These guys were more concerned with presenting the car exactly as raced in period. Even down to having newly CNC machined parts having a period finish complete with machining flaws!

Great discussion Howard. I'd be interested to see if those two Broadspeed Escorts eventually get granted HTPs. I suspect they probably will, although it may not be the intent of their owners to even historic race them, at which point an HTP doesn't matter.

My understanding of the Appendix K rules is that if a car doesn't match its homologation sheet, it doesn't get a pass. However, if a car owner wants to challenge the homologation sheet, they need to provide evidence. In the case of the two Broadspeed Escorts, I'm sure they can provide evidence of period photos showing areas that may not match the homologation sheet. Thats if the FIA inspector picks it up in the first place.

A few years ago a buddy of mine who races a Trans-Am 1967 Camaro in the Peter Auto series in Europe was trying to find evidence that dry sump systems were used on these cars in period, as he'd purchased his car from the US with dry sump installed. The homologation sheet for this model doesn't allow dry sump, and dry sump systems weren't allowed in the SCCA Trans-Am series until 1971. However, even if the rules in period allowed dry sumps, Appendix K won't allow them unless they were shown evidence of a 1967 Camaro fitted with a dry sump. So what he was trying to do was find period photos of 1967-68-69 Camaros fitted with dry sump. The Appendix K rules use a date classification, so even if the car was built in 1967, if its owner chooses to run it under a later date classification, they can incorporate some of the technology used during that period. However, they have to provide proof. His Camaro runs to G2 date classification, 1970/71, by which time dry sumps were allowed in the Trans-Am. However, he has never been able to find period photos of a first gen Camaro fitted with a dry sump, so is now racing with a wet sump.

When Neil Tolich took the Ivan Segedin Mustang to Europe, he was told the car would require changes to fit the Appendix K Group 2 rules for which it would race. Interestingly, the car was actualy presented as Segedin raced it in period, under Group 2 rules, but Neil was still told the change the car.

My understanding also is that what each car gets away with probably comes down to the FIA inspectors intimate knowledge of that particular make/model, and how far they delve. Historic racing in Europe is massively competitive, and its absolutely true that people try it on. The homologation sheets are very specific, and even cover things like gearbox and diff ratios, but an FIA inspector usually won't pull down a gearbox or rear end to check this, so teams find they can get away with a Tru Trac etc, eve if the rules don't state it can be used.

The below article from Historic Motor Racing News in 2014 is really interesting, and discusses this, using the AC Cobra as an example.

page 1:

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page 2:

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[Grant Sprague]

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[Grant Sprague]

Pre 65 Rules seemed to work ok back then [sort of lol ] , BUT a year or two after this photo it went a bit pear shaped.....only thing was we were running out of good 289 blocks & heads [when they went pop it was a $40k fix for some back then as they would rev to around 8000 rpm & want to keep going the more the revs the more these little screamers wanted go every one want to go faster [drug motor racing ] , should have allowed 302s in and the v8s would have put on a better show , later they allowed 302 now sneaky ones using 331 , etc etc , now vented discs which is fine , rear drums were ok not dangerous now 4 wheel disc .. & it goes on ... Dale & Steve , Bruce etc you are doing a great job dont get rail roaded......

[John McKechnie]

Grant- yep, Rob Brown and I had no probs in pre65 in 1993/94 with non vented discs on front, drums on rear- after all, its only 6 laps.
And I used to do the 3 hour endurances also no probs drums on rear.

[Grant Sprague]

John to be fair , lots had issues with pad & shoe material , plus cheap discs , some not mechanically minded , BUT once they were on top of the problem they were away , I would go to the annual committee meetings & have a good answer to a lot of issues but got slammed down by the ones with the loudest head & the bigger egos , so once again I slipped out the back door & thought Mmmmm all to hard bye .... left them 3 times and went back with an other car each time as the racing was fun , just had to wear the s..t in silence ..

[4dnut]

Lots of escort had quite different suspension. When I applied for K many years ago I was asked for the homologation of the 4 link rear suspension, I couldn't find it . This was never homologated as the rules in period didn't require it. That is why you see many period original cars with quite different set ups. Some have 5 link, 6 link, different spacings of the 4 links, short links and long links. Even satchel link used. Some leaf spring, some coil spring and some torsion bar.

[Howard Wood]

I didn't start this discussion to stir things up but I am happy the way the discussion has developed. I also posted in the HSC thread rather than HMC because it is specific to FIA HTP or Sched K regulations.

My understanding of those regulations is exactly as Steve suggests, if you can categorically prove it was done in period (specifically in an internationally recognised race or series) then it is allowed. On that basis, the original tubbing of the Broadspeed cars is allowed because the current owner and/ or restorer can and will prove it. Which is not to say that the proof is widely available to other car builders or restorers!

On the other hand, the horsepower that some "historic" cars now have is a huge issue in historic racing in the UK and certainly has the potential to occur here. The suggestion of declaring the power outputs and benchmarking them to what was achieved in period has considerable merit.

Possibly the requirement of running the correct gearbox has the unintended benefit of keeping horsepower in check but not always.

[Spgeti]

Paul, I agree with what you say re rear suspensions for the Escort. What we have observed is that Ford included the Mk1 with the Mk2 updates in 1605 and by the looks of it also combind 650 as well which covers the 4 link rear.
Shows no tubbing tho.
What we have to deal with for new builds are the regulations that we are faced with today. The historic cars do have to prove modifications outside of those regulations. That does as you say Howard are not necessarily available to those building cars today.

This is a new direction for us and Howard you have been there so you were the Guinea pig for saloons.

It is great to see other wanting to go down this track and we have some great cars in build.

[Kiwiboss]

I didn't start this discussion to stir things up but I am happy the way the discussion has developed. I also posted in the HSC thread rather than HMC because it is specific to FIA HTP or Sched K regulations.

My understanding of those regulations is exactly as Steve suggests, if you can categorically prove it was done in period (specifically in an internationally recognised race or series) then it is allowed. On that basis, the original tubbing of the Broadspeed cars is allowed because the current owner and/ or restorer can and will prove it. Which is not to say that the proof is widely available to other car builders or restorers!

On the other hand, the horsepower that some "historic" cars now have is a huge issue in historic racing in the UK and certainly has the potential to occur here. The suggestion of declaring the power outputs and benchmarking them to what was achieved in period has considerable merit.

Possibly the requirement of running the correct gearbox has the unintended benefit of keeping horsepower in check but not always.

This is a great discussion Howard and certainly no stirring. You really have two groups, the "Actual" car that raced in period with its modifications at the time...............and the FIA Homologated regulations which they(FIA) have worked out to allow an old car built and raced at today events but that have no history, which is pretty much were we are here in NZ.

Also, you cant undo knowledge, technology and modern thinking as this has solved all the problems of the past, and allowed todays Historic/Classics have more HP, handle better, and for us to drive them better.........of course safety has improved too. But this is why the coordinators of both HMC and HSC have to be quite anal with the regulations.........let one modern performance gain slip by.........well, we've seen what that has done to other classes and some of NZ's "not so" Classic fleet. Dale M

[Steve Holmes]

I didn't start this discussion to stir things up but I am happy the way the discussion has developed. I also posted in the HSC thread rather than HMC because it is specific to FIA HTP or Sched K regulations.

My understanding of those regulations is exactly as Steve suggests, if you can categorically prove it was done in period (specifically in an internationally recognised race or series) then it is allowed. On that basis, the original tubbing of the Broadspeed cars is allowed because the current owner and/ or restorer can and will prove it. Which is not to say that the proof is widely available to other car builders or restorers!

On the other hand, the horsepower that some "historic" cars now have is a huge issue in historic racing in the UK and certainly has the potential to occur here. The suggestion of declaring the power outputs and benchmarking them to what was achieved in period has considerable merit.

Possibly the requirement of running the correct gearbox has the unintended benefit of keeping horsepower in check but not always.

No Howard, your posts definitely don't come across as stirring, and you have posted on the correct thread. While HMC has its own unique set of rules which bare little resemblance to Appendix K, for people wanting to build an HSC car, they have an option of either using Schedule T&C, or Appendix K. And we're trying to encourage them to go with the Appendix K rules. After all, for anyone building a historic race car, why wouldn't they want that car to be completely period correct, as per the original homologation sheet? And why wouldn't they want a car that they could take and race anywhere in the world rather than something that only has a place in NZ?

Five years ago very few people in NZ had an understanding of FIA Appendix K rules, but as more people such as yourself, Grant Sprague, Paul McCarthy, Paul Berkahn etc build cars to these rules, the more others will begin to grasp how the rules work. And the more we talk about these rules, the more people will understand them.

[John McKechnie]

Steve- saw your latest book on Fords at the Warehouse last night, great read -highly recommend to have.
BTW-nice pic of my Falcon Coupe- thanks.
Cant wait for the next one.

[Kiwiboss]

No Howard, your posts definitely don't come across as stirring, and you have posted on the correct thread. While HMC has its own unique set of rules which bare little resemblance to Appendix K, for people wanting to build an HSC car, they have an option of either using Schedule T&C, or Appendix K. And we're trying to encourage them to go with the Appendix K rules. After all, for anyone building a historic race car, why wouldn't they want that car to be completely period correct, as per the original homologation sheet? And why wouldn't they want a car that they could take and race anywhere in the world rather than something that only has a place in NZ?

Five years ago very few people in NZ had an understanding of FIA Appendix K rules, but as more people such as yourself, Grant Sprague, Paul McCarthy, Paul Berkahn etc build cars to these rules, the more others will begin to grasp how the rules work. And the more we talk about these rules, the more people will understand them.

Interestingly enough is that comparing FIA Appendix K, Schedule K and T&C, HMC is actually the "Hotrod" class, its just that we have strictly controlled those hotrod freedoms(which to some are too strict) but the allowances given have all been based on "like Era" components pre Dec/1977............this took a number of years for all the Directors and the MSNZ Historic and Classic commission to work though, many a heated discussion I can tell you BUT we now have a great formula for racers to build and race cars to that is stable year after year and this has been proven with no increase in the fastest lap times(at Hampton) for over five years............and we will not allow anyone to over step the mark............plenty of other race classes should they wish to do so. Dale M

[Paul B]

No Howard, your posts definitely don't come across as stirring, and you have posted on the correct thread. While HMC has its own unique set of rules which bare little resemblance to Appendix K, for people wanting to build an HSC car, they have an option of either using Schedule T&C, or Appendix K. And we're trying to encourage them to go with the Appendix K rules. After all, for anyone building a historic race car, why wouldn't they want that car to be completely period correct, as per the original homologation sheet? And why wouldn't they want a car that they could take and race anywhere in the world rather than something that only has a place in NZ?

Five years ago very few people in NZ had an understanding of FIA Appendix K rules, but as more people such as yourself, Grant Sprague, Paul McCarthy, Paul Berkahn etc build cars to these rules, the more others will begin to grasp how the rules work. And the more we talk about these rules, the more people will understand them.

--------------------------------------
I am very keen to finish my Falcon Sprint 100% to Appendix K #1250 (980kg is impossible though! - but I wish) and I am more than happy to comply with all the regulations. I am also really pleased that we have our NZ historic racing footprint with all the compliance and support from dedicated people. There are a good range of class options to race in that everyone can participate.
As far as I am aware there are only 1-3 genuine Monte Carlo Sprints left in the world out of the 14 that went to Europe. So there are not so many options but to build an Appendix K replica, if that's what spins your wheels. My only option really. At the end of the day I guess it will be just as much fun as long as we all live by the same rules.

[Steve Holmes]

Steve- saw your latest book on Fords at the Warehouse last night, great read -highly recommend to have.
BTW-nice pic of my Falcon Coupe- thanks.
Cant wait for the next one.

Hi John, thanks so much for that, I really appreciate it. Did you see the Holden book with your Monaro in it?

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks to Paul McCarthy for sharing this great magazine article from 1970, showing how the Broadspeed Escorts were tubbed, as per Howard's description. 1970 was the year the BTCC switched from Group 5 to Group 2 rules, with Group 2 allowing more freedom in many areas.

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[John McKechnie]

Hi John, thanks so much for that, I really appreciate it. Did you see the Holden book with your Monaro in it?
No, there was no Holden book. maybe everyone saw the book with the Cambridge Monaro article bought it, and the whole print series is sold out...I am the only one who hasnt got it.........maybe.
Got the Ford book though with that nice full page pic of me out-braking Dale into the corner.............

[Howard Wood]

[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;60989]Thanks to Paul McCarthy for sharing this great magazine article from 1970, showing how the Broadspeed Escorts were tubbed, as per Howard's description. 1970 was the year the BTCC switched from Group 5 to Group 2 rules, with Group 2 allowing more freedom in many areas.]

Steve, what a wonderful resource The Roaring Season is, the very same car as I was recently shown by one of the original constructors! Period articles and information such as this are a vital piece of the "evidence building" which is part of the research needed to correctly build to original specs. I guess you either love or hate that part of the process, I take my hat off to Pauls McC and B plus John McKecknie and everyone else who researches properly and is generous enough to share the knowledge.

[Paul B]

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Is this what you are talking about Paul with the tubbing?
Big Air! Amazing stuff.

Thanks Howard, we are just custodians of these cool machines and hopefully grab a few smiles on the way and some comradery! Cheers

[Grant Sprague]

Thank you for sharing guys & Paul great photos etc , custodians love that word , yes that goes for every thing I guess , My build is a bit of a biggy as started with just a roller & an engine in bits thats it , no excuses except TIME & collecting ALL the correct bits & pieces not to mention..... ??? got 3 super tourers also at home one called India, Molly & Ebony lol if you get my drift . Thanks to Paul McCarthy steering me in right direction , plus Bruce & a few others , we are moving forwards each week regardless. Hope to get little current RS2000 to manfield Nov .

[Spgeti]

MG at Manfeild is going to be an amazing event. Dale has sent out the entries and regs today so let's get them in and support MG.
Looking forward to seeing you all at my home event.

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;60989]Thanks to Paul McCarthy for sharing this great magazine article from 1970, showing how the Broadspeed Escorts were tubbed, as per Howard's description. 1970 was the year the BTCC switched from Group 5 to Group 2 rules, with Group 2 allowing more freedom in many areas.]

Steve, what a wonderful resource The Roaring Season is, the very same car as I was recently shown by one of the original constructors! Period articles and information such as this are a vital piece of the "evidence building" which is part of the research needed to correctly build to original specs. I guess you either love or hate that part of the process, I take my hat off to Pauls McC and B plus John McKecknie and everyone else who researches properly and is generous enough to share the knowledge.

Hi Howard, thank you for that, I really appreciate it.

Interestingly enough, I decided to follow up on the idea of period illegalities being allowed in modern day historic racing under FIA Appendix K rules. I asked a couple of colleagues in Europe about this, and they confirmed that in many cases illegal modifications done in period are now accepted as legal under Appendix K. I thought this was quite interesting. Essentially, the emphasis is on total period correctness, legal or not. Of course, it has to be proven and with photo evidence etc, so not necessarily easy to prove as usually these things weren't photographed.

However, I sent them the 1970 Autosport magazine article posted above and pointed out the tubbed rear inner fenders on the Broadspeed Escorts. They said that many of the cars racing in the BTCC under Group 2 rules (from 1970) were often more modified than those racing in Europe under the same rules, and that the FIA won't always accept illegalities as performed on BTCC cars. I guess the rules were interpreted differently, or enforced differently. While the original Broadspeed cars likely wouldn't have an issue getting an HTP, in their opinion anyone building a Group 2 Escort and using the Autosport article as reference to push through tubbing on a new build might get knocked back.

[John McKechnie]

So - what was illegal then is legal now, because they got away with it then.
No one knew what is was then, still dont now, until someone says it was done then, but you could never see it ?

Wouldnt like to get involved here !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve Holmes]

So - what was illegal then is legal now, because they got away with it then.
No one knew what is was then, still dont now, until someone says it was done then, but you could never see it ?

Wouldnt like to get involved here !!!!!!!!!!!!

In a nutshell John, yes. The way the FIA rules is that the cars should be just as they were in period. Remember, any blatant cheats would have been sprung before they ever raced. Its the more subtle stuff that would have slipped through, and even then, it now has to be proven, and with hard evidence.

[Steve Holmes]

This little monster should be making its HSC debut pretty soon; Paul McCarthy's stunning MkI Escort RS1600. This is a genuine RS1600 which Paul has owned for many years. Its been a race car for a long time, built as a 1971 Broadspeed replica. It remains a Broadspeed replica, though this time representing a 1972 variant with the slightly bulkier flares, complete with BDG engine and fuel-injection. Can't wait to hear this thing run!

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[Steve Holmes]

This is the original 1972 Broadspeed Escort RS1600. The only real difference will be that Paul won't be running the chin spoiler.

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[Andrew Metford]

This little monster should be making its HSC debut pretty soon; Paul McCarthy's stunning MkI Escort RS1600. This is a genuine RS1600 which Paul has owned for many years. Its been a race car for a long time, built as a 1971 Broadspeed replica. It remains a Broadspeed replica, though this time representing a 1972 variant with the slightly bulkier flares, complete with BDG engine and fuel-injection. Can't wait to hear this thing run!

46574

Very nice indeed!! Can't wait to hear it again after all these years.

[Spgeti]

Thanks Paul for the photos. Your attention to detail is just amazing.
We, the Directors are all looking forward to seeing all the FIA cars coming to our grid.
We believe this is the correct direction for our group giving those the opportunity to take their cars overseas if they wish.
This for Saloon car owners is a serious challenge and for me a new learning curve on the need to reasearch the regulations for these cars.
We have had some interesting inquires over the last month and it showed the interest in both groups.

I will be at our first event of our season to meet new people and our usual stalwarts of both groups.
While I have been out of action due to illness I look forward to catching up with you all and I thank those who have sent their messages of concern but I am on the mend and knee replacement is now again on the horizon.
See you on the 14th

Cheers
Bruce

[Paul B]

The escort looks fantastic Paul, it will be great and impressive machine to see the on the track for sure.
Hope to see you all on 14th at Hampton.
Cheers
Paul B

[Spgeti]

The TACCOC Spring Meeting is now upon us, this Saturday at Hampton Downs.
HMC/HSC have a fantastic line up of 24 entries for this one day meeting. Special thanks to all those who entered and we have a grid to be pleased with.

The Gulf Camaro, The Hemi Cuda, and the superb remainder of the HMC field, 16 in total.

The HSC field consisted of the most historic Escorts assembled, The Wiliment, The Freighters, The Autotrader, and the Radisch RS1600, and backed up with the McConnell Twin Cam, a car raced since 1974 and finally the favourite ex Kibble Rally Escort in the hands of Hillsy.
These are also complimented by the best T&C car in our group, the fabulous Datsun 240K. In total 8 fabulous cars.

See you there, you will not be disappointed.

[Grant Sprague]

Sounds great , shows how strong this class is , no pressure , no points , no championship , no ego , no drama we can come & go & still good feild of cars , will take my little escort to manfeild I think we have more cars entered there , so see you there guys have fun .

[Steve Holmes]

Couple of update photos of Paul's Escort RS1600:

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[Kiwiboss]

Couple of update photos of Paul's Escort RS1600:

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46881

WOW, didn't know Paul was actually working on it, that's fantastic..............BOY he would have luv'd been apart of the TACCOC meeting yesterday.

[ERC]

David Thompson - Escort, and, David Thompson - Escort... Oh, and in the background, Dennis McConnell - Escort.



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[John McKechnie]

Ray- you missed that in the red nose car is also an Escort- Hillsy.
Full house wins

[Spgeti]

Thanks for the photo Ray. I was there and saw you talking to Rob but I was busy as you know.
Great meeting for us and the best selection of true historic cars out on the grid.
We are truely privileged to have the support of these guys.

Cheers
Bruce

[ERC]

I'll eventually post on my Mix of Pics thread. Still whittling 700 pics down to a more manageable number. Good to see healthy grids in all classes and to know that grids in just about all our classes are growing, even though several drivers have now hung up their helmets, so we may not see their cars out again.

As those who were there will have noticed, there were a lot of broad smiles around! Make that broad grins...

[kiwi285]

Hi Ray, I have sent you a PM.

[kiwi285]

Here are a couple of photos from the TACCOC meeting on Saturday. Most are the great work of Nigel Watts. Four of the 6, yes 6, historic Escorts that race in the HSC class. We need to be thankful to the people who found that restored these great little cars.

http://i67.tinypic.com/1rrudk.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/vcwksw.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/14mf9qp.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/auyttt.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/6te71g.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/fvfl2e.jpg

[kiwi285]

Here are a couple of photos from the TACCOC meeting on Saturday. Most are the great work of Nigel Watts. Four of the 6, yes 6, historic Escorts that race in the HSC class. We need to be thankful to the people who found that restored these great little cars.

Car # 1 is David Thompson Snr with the ex Roy Harrington car, Car # 71 is David Thompson Jnr with the ex Radisich car, Car #102 is Brent Smith with the Ex Jim Richards car and car # 103 is John Dennehy with the ex Don Halliday car. Magic sights.


http://i67.tinypic.com/1rrudk.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/vcwksw.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/14mf9qp.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/auyttt.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/6te71g.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/fvfl2e.jpg

[Steve Holmes]

For anyone wanting to get behind the wheel of an HSC car, this fantastic little Triumph Dolomite is for sale: https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/cars/triumph/auction-1441898646.htm

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[Steve Holmes]

Neat bit of in-car footage here with David Thompson Jnr in the ex-Frank Radisich Escort RS1600:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwQsaDyrxk&feature=youtu.be

[Paul B]

Couple of update photos of Paul's Escort RS1600:

46880

46881

What a fantastic looking machine! a real credit to Paul Mc and his attention to detail.
I cant wait to see it in the flesh

[Steve Holmes]

This beauty is joining the HSC ranks at the MG Classic next month. Rex Bentham's ex-Uhlenburg/Westall/Hunter Jag MkII.

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[nigel watts]

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[Steve Holmes]

Beautiful pics Nigel! Thats a great looking car.

[Steve Holmes]

This is the list of cars currently entered for the HMC/HSC races at the MG Classic in November. Looks like a few more to come yet:

1. #1 David Thompson Snr, 68 MK1 Escort
2. #3 Kevin Gimblett, 67 Camaro
3. #4 Colin Campbell, 69 Mk1 RS Escort
4. #7 Dave Sturrock, 68 RS/SS Camaro
5. #8 Ian Williamson, 72 RX2 Mazda
6. #12 Roger Williams, 69 Camaro
7. #21 Sean McCaughan, 71 XY Falcon
8. #25 Rex Bentham, 60 Mk2 Jag
9. #23 Dale Mathers, 69 Mustang
10. #28 Murray Brown, 70 Z28 Camaro
11. #32 Tony Roberts, 65 Mustang FB
12. #42 Andrew Sinclair, 70 Hemi Cuda
13. #44 Andrew Stevenson, 67 Mustang
14. #46 Howard Wood, 73 2002 BMW
15. #47 Pete Stevenson, 66 Mustang FB
16. #50 Glenn Allingham, 70 Camaro
17. #57 Richie Malam, 67 Mustang Coupe
18. #63 Grant Sprague, 71 Mk1 Escort
19. #68 Brett Pearce, 68 Bathurst Monaro
20. #69 Dennis McConnell, 69 Mk1 Escort
21. #94 Greg Goudie, 70 Capri V8
22. #103 John Dennehy, 68 Mk1 Escort
23. #104 Tony Mexted, 70 PDL Mustang
24. #117 John Sampson, 69 Capri V6
25. #175 Todd Gower, 76 MK3 Cortina
26. #187 Pat Excell, 65 Ford Anglia GT
27. #227 Natalie Parlane, 71 Capri V6
28. #233 Tom Lancaster, 70 Capri V8
29. #289 Nigel MacDonald, 67 Mustang FB
30. #483 Neville(Hillsy) Hills, 75 MK2 Escort

[Spgeti]

We are a week away from the MG Classic at Manfeild. We have a fantastic grid of 33 entries which has variety from an Anglia 1500GT and Mk2 Jaguar to the rapid Freighters Escort, BMW 2002tii, Mazda RX2 and Radisch BDG Escort just to name a few.
Mix this up with the HMC group and this is one of the best period grids you will ever see.
All the hard work has been done in preparation for this great meeting put on by the good people from the MG Club, Wellington.

Looking forward to it, please call in and say hello to Dale and myself and yes buy one of our fantastic calendars at the same time.

Cheers
Bruce

[Paul B]

The MG Classic meeting 10, 11, 12 November 2017
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[Paul B]

Some pics for Spgeti
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[Spgeti]

Thanks Paul, but the Alfa’s are all to far gone to be HSC compliant......!

Nice rig tho...

Cheers
Bruce

[ERC]

Thanks Paul, but the Alfa’s are all to far gone to be HSC compliant......!
At least they do have somewhere to run, which is the most important part of the whole scene. Too far gone for one class they may be, but welcomed with open arms in other classes, adding colour, variety and to the varied grids. That is as it should be.

Still recognisable to us all as Alfas.

Love the Rush's truck!

[Spgeti]

[QUOTE=ERC;62347]At least they do have somewhere to run, which is the most important part of the whole scene. Too far gone for one class they may be, but welcomed with open arms in other classes, adding colour, variety and to the varied grids. That is as it should be.



Once a common sight on the race track but as values have increased they are becoming a rare sight and some have been bought and restored to road spec due to values.

Recently sold in the 40K region but one sold the other week for 70K......

[Steve Holmes]

Be sure to check out the new and improved Historic Muscle Cars/Historic Saloon Cars website: www.historicmusclecars.co.nz

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[Spgeti]

The entries are out for the Taupo Historic Grand Prix and Tourist Trophy Meeting on the 21st January, Wellington (Anniversary weekend).
This is a true historic meetind and the classes running are F5000, Formula Junior, HMC/HSC, HSS and Heritage Touring Cars.
This is a must attend event for us as behind the scenes Dale has done a huge amount of work with the organisers.
We will be inviting the legends as well so plan your trip now as accomodation is going to be difficult if you leave it to late.

Cheers
Bruce

[Kiwiboss]

Another first time racer to HSC on Sunday racer was Kevin Mills in his beautifully presented MK1 Escort, 1600 BDA and all.........MSNZ T&C correct and with COD...............just amazing. Dale M

[Greg Stokes]

Is this something that the Morrari recreation could be eligible to participate in?

[Spgeti]

Hi Greg, the Morrari recreation would be best suited under Historic Sports Sedans and Invited Allcomers. HSS as it is known and has a thread on this site. Co-ordinator is John McKechnie and I know he would welcome you.
They have in his group the Fahey Breadvan Anglia, the Coppins Zephyr Corvette replica and the Custaxi replica so the Morrari would be a good fit.

Cheers
Bruce Dyer

[Steve Holmes]

Another first time racer to HSC on Sunday racer was Kevin Mills in his beautifully presented MK1 Escort, 1600 BDA and all.........MSNZ T&C correct and with COD...............just amazing. Dale M

Wow, what a great looking car! Its amazing what's out there.

[Oldfart]

Who now owns the Zephyr Corvette?

[Spgeti]

Who now owns the Zephyr Corvette?

Craig Stacey who also owns the Fahey Anglia.

Cheers
Bruce

[John McKechnie]

Who now owns the Zephyr Corvette?

Craig will be running the Zephyr Corvette at Taupo Jan 20, 21

[Spgeti]

The Taupo Historic Grand Prix and Tourist Trophy Meeting is now just over a week away.
We have a great lineup of HMC/HSC cars on the grid to which Dale will release the details later in the week.
We are still waiting on a few confirmations.

Paul Fahey will be joining us for book signing at the HMC/HSC Marque for Saturday and Sunday. It is a great read so come and talk to Paul, buy his book and get it signed ...
Also joining us will be Kerry Grant and Ray Stone.
Posters will be available for signing by all three.

The Fleetwood Mustang under new ownership of Sean McCaughlan will be on display and maybe out on the circuit as well.
It is fantastic to have this very historic New Zealand car in our group.

Please come and talk to the drivers and chat about their cars and to our legends.

See you there....

Cheers
Bruce

[Spgeti]

Joining HMC/HSC on Saturday will be Rayden Smith with the beautiful Willment/Richards Escort.
The Escort will be on display along with the Fleetwood Mustang and also both doing demonstration laps during the day.

[kiwi285]

Here are a few photos taken at Taupo showing our invited guests talking to fans about the way it was back in their era.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4606/39851512472_740ea3c178_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23HxqfC)P1360474 (https://flic.kr/p/23HxqfC) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/26010561908_35a10509fc_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FCsVRW)P1360197 (https://flic.kr/p/FCsVRW) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4632/26010584018_789cce49c6_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FCt3r9)P1360247 (https://flic.kr/p/FCt3r9) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4768/28103340139_852cc3439e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JPoXVe)P1360540 (https://flic.kr/p/JPoXVe) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

[Paul B]

This is a absolutely fine example of the Possum Cortina, powered by a Buick V8 and owned by Don Fenwick
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Taupo Historic GP meeting 21 January 2018

[Spgeti]

The Cortina is “Possum” Bourne’s rally Mk1 that he built years ago.
It has been beautifully restored by Don Fenwick and after calling in on Saturday to chat to us Dale asked him to bring it down on Sunday to display.
We also along with the Cortina displayed on Sunday Pat Excell’s Anglia 1500GT and Poul Christie’s Mk2 Lotus Cortina just to add flavour to Paul selling his book.
Guests were Paul Fahey, Kerry Grant and Ray Stone.

[Paul B]

Pat's Anglia, a beautifully preserved vehicle
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[Paul B]

Poul Christie’s Mk2 Lotus Cortina very nicely restored and detailed
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[Milan Fistonic]

The Possum Cortina in 1980.

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[John McKechnie]

Milan....was he running the V8 in it back then,do you know?

[Paul B]

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Natalie Campbell with her hero Paul Fahey.
Natalie races a Capri V6 in HSC and she was rapt to meet Paul Fahey, buy the book and get it and posters signed.
Photo also shows HMC/HSC shop which was run by the Allingham girls

[Spgeti]

Our next event is quickly looming up on us...

Legends of Speed at Hampton Downs, 17/18th March.

Please get you entries in via the MotorSport Entry website as per normal.

I know that Rayden Smith will be bringing the Willment Escort along to celebrate 50 years since Mike Crabtree debuted the car in 1968 in the UK.
Rayden will have the car as close as possible to the livery in the day and sporting #10 as it was in the day.

Cheers
Bruce

[Spgeti]

We have a great line up for the Legends of Speed Meeting at Hampton Downs this weekend.

Apart from the Willment Escort there to celebrate 50 years since its debut in the UK supporting Rayden this weekend will be Nigel McDonald in the Dawson Shelby Mustang, Dennis McConnell in his Mk1 Escort Twin Cam, David Thompson Snr in the Autotrader Escort, Hillsy in his ex rally Mk2 Escort RS2000, Colin Campbell in his genuine Mk1 Escort RS2000, Kevin Mills in his Mk1 Escort RS1600 and Arthur Vowles in the ex Jim Crystall Worlsely 1500.

Total combined grid of HMC/HSC is 18 cars and I wish to thank the guys and girls for their support and let’s see some good racing.

Our grid will be this weekend be under the control of Tony Roberts due to my recovery from knee surgery and Dale having prior engagements for this weekend.

Cheers
Bruce

[Spgeti]

Our last race meeting for the season was held at BMMP Taupo, being the Great Lakes Meeting put on by HRC Event.
Thank you Chris and Tim for your hard work over the season and again great weather as well.
As on the HMC Thread we had 3 new cars appear, the 1971 XY Falcon GTHO of Sean McCaughan, 1972 Ford Escort RS1600 Gp4 of Greg Goudie and the 1970 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray of Tony Roberts.
A really good couple of days racing with a small grid of 14 and no damage.
Honours to 2 races to HSC and 1 race to HMC....go the little guys.

Saturday night was our end of the year function which was well attended and most enjoyable.
Special thanks to our sponsors, BNT, Jak’s Trucks, Repco, New World Kumeu, Kumeu Cellars, Falcon Print and Extreme Automotive Parts Distributors, Hamilton.


As we head of for the winter break we have a Directors Meeting to plan next season.

We would like to thank all those who supported us this season.

Cheers
Bruce, Dale, Tony and Steve

[kiwi285]

The Auto Traders Mk I Escort

The car was built by Ross & Jim Stone for the Bank of New South Wales series in 1976 ?, It ran a 1300cc fuel injected Twin Cam built by Jim, that used to rev to 12,000rpm.

It was sold to someone in Wellington, but I don't know what happened to the 1300cc motor.

The car was next in the hands of Roy Harrington who has some success with the car. I bought it from Roy Harrington in 2004 it was a complete car, with spares, nothing had been robbed from it, even had a rats nest in the boot.

We stripped it to bare shell, removing many kilos of bog, and rebuilt it with as many original parts as were allowed. It still has same brake rotors (Mk4 Zephyr) on rear and APs on front.
The only new items fitted were, roll cage (original was alloy) seat, dry sump tank, and for safety all fluid lines and wiring. It still runs the original magnesium wheels - 13 x 10 rear and 13 x 9 front. We rebuilt the engine into a Brian Hart 416 B twin cam with the original 4 speed Rocket box, and running the same diff and axles. We have made a few cosmetic changes, putting windows in rubber instead of pop rivets to body work.

The first event after rebuild was at Taupo 2013. Roy Harrington has seen the car, but has not seen it racing. We took the car to Timaru in January this year for shell sport event / Timaru 50th Anniversary

Dave Thompson

[kiwi285]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/969/41588100724_696b1a2a24_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26mZTro)Jim Stone in the 1300 Escort (https://flic.kr/p/26mZTro) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/944/42262836762_5f5e853286_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5Xm)Jim Stone at Pukekohe (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5Xm) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/948/41588107244_e7e2007008_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26mZVnN)1983 at Pukekohe (https://flic.kr/p/26mZVnN) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/898/42262836432_959decad9a_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5RE)Roy Harrington at the speed show (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5RE) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/956/42262836122_c8d757c0c9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5Lj)Recent photo (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5Lj) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/960/42262839422_9b3538890e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27oC6Kd)At Hampton Downs (https://flic.kr/p/27oC6Kd) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

[kiwi285]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/901/42262835092_08ab2517f1_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5sy)Roy with the car in the 1980'2 (https://flic.kr/p/27oC5sy) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/950/27441077797_225fd65b74_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HNSGoZ)Roy Harrington Escort TC Pukekohe Jan 71 (https://flic.kr/p/HNSGoZ) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

[Spgeti]

Thanks for posting Mike, great history and well done to Dave Thompson Snr for all the info.

Cheers
Bruce

[Milan Fistonic]

If this is the same car it's looking well-used at this time. Roy Harrington at Pukekohe March 1980.

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[kiwi285]

If this is the same car it's looking well-used at this time. Roy Harrington at Pukekohe March 1980.

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Thanks for the photo Milan - I haven't seen that one before. In my recent searching I hace come across these additional photos on the car in its earliest guise. A big thank you to the original photographers too for sharing these.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1742/41630534724_27b205a406.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26qKnA5)Jim Stone's Escort (https://flic.kr/p/26qKnA5) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1758/42304823442_507b1e4307_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27skh8C)Jimmy Stone in the twin cam Escort (https://flic.kr/p/27skh8C) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/42304810402_89e49f14f1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27skdfN)Auto Traders Escort with Frank Radisich (2) (https://flic.kr/p/27skdfN) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1751/42304810522_325bfb5f82_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27skdhS)Auto Traders Escort with Frank Radisich (1) (https://flic.kr/p/27skdhS) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1736/28479818078_554ab4711b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KoEvGb)GR%20Scans_23 (https://flic.kr/p/KoEvGb) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

[Spgeti]

Mike the Mk1 RS1600 (#9 & #82)driven by Frank Radisich did not become the Auto Trader Escort. The car went on to have a long rally career after being sold before being bought and restored by the Thompson family and today is owned and driven by David Thompson Jnr and is what we refer to as the Radisich Escort.

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

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[Spgeti]

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This is the refurbished engine bay of Todd Gower’s Mk3 Cortina.
New UK built race 2 Litre Pinto, complete with 48 DCOE Dellortos, dry sump system and reputed to be 225HP.
That should wake the Mk3 up !

[Andrew Metford]

DHLA's then. DCOE is the Weber version.

Very nice looking engine bay, all nicely painted and shiny. Top marks for presentation!!

[Spgeti]

DHLA's then. DCOE is the Weber version.

Very nice looking engine bay, all nicely painted and shiny. Top marks for presentation!!

Correct Andrew.....brain fade.
It is a nice car and very different.

[Spgeti]

Well in a few months we will start our new season. Still a few events to be confirmed yet.

New cars coming this year are Paul McCarthy with his FIA built Mk1 Escort BDG done to Broadspeed spec flares from 1972/3. Greg Goudie is also building a new Mk1 Escort to the same spec. Poul Christie has purchased a Mk1 Escort RS2000 to the same body spec as well and all these cars will be on the grid this season.
Terry Price is getting closer with his Mk2 3.8 Jag and will be joined by Rex Bentham with his Mk2 as well. Paul Berkhan is close to painting his 1964 FIA Falcon Sprint and hopefully will be out to join our older car group by the Taupo GP.
New to our group is Pete Cowan and he is busy re kitting out his Mk1 V6 Capri bringing it back to Schedule T&C specs and will be a welcome addition as well.
Enquiry has gone mad and we may have another Datsun 1200 join our ranks as well.

Taupo GP we will run HSC as a separate grid to HMC but with a bit of mix to speed groups just to keep the interest up.
Tony Roberts might bring the thundering 70 Corvette out as well but will run under HSC as a Historic Sports & GT class and hopefully be joined by Phil Hehir in his very rare Alfa Romeo Montreal.

Tony and Rob Herbert are flat out rebuilding the 63 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super and will join us this season along with my 1974 Alfa Romeo GTV2000....yes time to drag the old girl out.

Plenty happening so if you want to be part of it give Dale or I a call.

Cheers
Bruce

[kiwi285]

Well in a few months we will start our new season. Still a few events to be confirmed yet.

New cars coming this year are Paul McCarthy with his FIA built Mk1 Escort BDG done to Broadspeed spec flares from 1972/3. Greg Goudie is also building a new Mk1 Escort to the same spec. Poul Christie has purchased a Mk1 Escort RS2000 to the same body spec as well and all these cars will be on the grid this season.
Terry Price is getting closer with his Mk2 3.8 Jag and will be joined by Rex Bentham with his Mk2 as well. Paul Berkhan is close to painting his 1964 FIA Falcon Sprint and hopefully will be out to join our older car group by the Taupo GP.
New to our group is Pete Cowan and he is busy re kitting out his Mk1 V6 Capri bringing it back to Schedule T&C specs and will be a welcome addition as well.
Enquiry has gone mad and we may have another Datsun 1200 join our ranks as well.

Taupo GP we will run HSC as a separate grid to HMC but with a bit of mix to speed groups just to keep the interest up.
Tony Roberts might bring the thundering 70 Corvette out as well but will run under HSC as a Historic Sports & GT class and hopefully be joined by Phil Hehir in his very rare Alfa Romeo Montreal.

Tony and Rob Herbert are flat out rebuilding the 63 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super and will join us this season along with my 1974 Alfa Romeo GTV2000....yes time to drag the old girl out.

Rumour has it that the 68 Camaro Dale is currently building will be to Schedule T&C spec and will eligible to race under HSC...let’s wait and see...

Plenty happening so if you want to be part of it give Dale or I a call.

Cheers
Bruce

It is certainly heading up to be a great season with some awesome new cars to keep the existing members on their toes.

[Spgeti]

The new season is just around the corner.

The first event is the TACCOC Spring Meeting at Pukekohe,6th October.
Next up is the popular MG Classic at Manfeild 9/10/11th November.
Entry and Regs are now out and it look as if we are going to have a great grid for this meeting.
So if you are interested in being part of it get you entries in now.
To race in HMC/HSC you must be registered with the group and entries are by invitation only to any of our events we have entered this coming season.

For all details please go to our Website :
www.historicmusclecars.co.nz

Cheers

[Steve Holmes]

The latest addition to HSC, beautiful MkII Jag owned by Norm Agnew. Car was built by Dave Silcock and has been in the South Island for many years, only heading North with Norm's recent purchase of it.

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[Paul B]

Super cool to see some more Jags come out of the woodwork. And they have "The sound!"

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, agreed Paul, and don't those D Type wheels look cool!

[nigel watts]

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[Spgeti]

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Thanks Nigel for the photos.

The first Escort is a 1971 Mk1 RS1600 owned by Paul McCarthy and built to 1973 Broadspeed specs and powered by a 2 litre BDG, Mechanical Injection back to a 4 Speed Close Ratio gearbox. Livery is to replicate the VMW Escort driven by Andy Rouse in period.
The next is a 1973 Mk1 RS2000 powered by a 2 Litre Pinto SOHC, owned by Poul Christie and again in a Broadspeed spec body, on carburettors but will be replaced with Mechanical Injection, and back to a 4 Speed gearbox.
Both these cars are built to FIA Appendix K specification and are the first of 5 Escorts coming to race in HSC to these specs.

Both are fantastic builds and they will be at MG Classic at Manfeild in November running with HMC.

We had 6 Escorts in total join the field at the Escort 50th Anniversary, Dennis McConnell in the Halliday Freighters Escort, Brent Smith out in the Willment Escort in its 50th Anniversary Livery, David Thompson Snr in the Harrington Auto Traders Escort and Greg Goudie out in his Gp4 Escort along with the above.

[Steve Holmes]

Beaut photos Nigel. Those Escorts are stunning. As Bruce says, they're the first FIA Appendix K Escorts built for HSC. However, they won't have the front spoilers fitted when they race with HSC.

[Andrew Metford]

However, they won't have the front spoilers fitted when they race with HSC.

Why not?

[Spgeti]

Why not?

While we have accepted the Broadspeed flares the front spoiler is for us, HSC not applicable for our regulations covering these cars.
Our date end is 1971 for our FIA classification but we have allowed the BDG and tha Broadspeed flare to these two car and one other in build.

[Steve Holmes]

Here is Paul McCarthy's beautiful FIA Appendix K MkI Escort, as it will appear for the first time in HSC at the MG Classic (sans front spoiler). This is a replica of the Broadspeed car raced by Andy Rouse in the 1972 British Saloon Car Championship. Its a magnificent car, and a real credit to Paul.

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[khyndart in CA]

Paul,
That is a truly a magnificent looking Escort and I wish you well as it brings back memories of Andy Rouse throwing his Escort around with great success back in the seventies at different events I attended. Well done.
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(Ken H.)

[Spgeti]

MG Classic is now only 2 weeks away which is HMC/HSC’s next event.
We have a good grid of cars for this and several new cars out as well.
Graeme Bagrie out in his 69 Mustang, Pole Christie in his Broadspeed Escort RS2000, Paul McCarthy in his Broadspeed RS1600, Keith Tunnicliff out in the Nazer Escort and some old favourites as well like Howard Wood in his Group 2 BMW 2002Tii.

Practice on Friday and racing on Saturday and Sunday. We have 4 races for our group over the 2 days so come along and support MG who put this fabulous event on and call in and say hello to all our boys and girls.

HMC/HSC Calendars are for sale on site as well.

Cheers

[nigel watts]

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[Spgeti]

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We are looking forward to having Paul’s new car on the grid at MG. I know Paul is looking forward to it as well.

[Steve Holmes]

Great looking couple of photos of the Historic Muscle Cars/Historic Saloon Cars grid at the MG Classic on the weekend.

Photo by Jarod Carruthers.

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[Paul B]

It surely was a great weekends racing and camaraderie, super enjoyable and what a great grid of very cool cars. Pats Anglia (red in the above pic) came 1st in the reverse grid race. Thanks to all that made it happen on all levels!

[Paul B]

Manfeild dummy grid Sunday 11 Nov 2018
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[Paul B]

The Historic Saloon Cars

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[Paul B]

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[Steve Holmes]

Outstanding photos Paul!

[Steve Holmes]

How cool is this! Tania Allingham arranged to have a wood saw hand painted using the HMC and HSC logos, plus an old Bay Park start scene I sent her. Its being auctioned.

I just think its completely awesome.

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[Spgeti]

If anyone wants to bid on this please contact me.
bruced105@gmail.com

It is truely amazing.

Cheers
Bruce

[Steve Holmes]

How cool is this! Tania Allingham arranged to have a wood saw hand painted using the HMC and HSC logos, plus an old Bay Park start scene I sent her. Its being auctioned.

I just think its completely awesome.

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I will bump this to the next page so Bruce's post above makes more sense.

[Spgeti]

The entries to The TACCOC Christmas at the Downs 9th December are out.

[url]www.motorsportentry.com

Already we have interest from more HMC drivers for this event, Dale in the 69 Boss, Glenn, and let’s hope he will bring out the Ex Roger Williams 69 Z/28 and Pat with his HSC Anglia for a start.

Let’s get the entries in.

Be good to have a respectable grid to support our friends at TACCOC.

See you there

[nigel watts]

Should be http://www.motorsportentry.com/

[Spgeti]

Should be http://www.motorsportentry.com/

Done, thanks Nigel.

Cheers

[Spgeti]

Taupo Historic Grand Prix, 19/20th January 2019, BMMP, Taupo

Supplementry Regulations and Entry Forms are out for the above meeting.
If you are interested in entering and you have a HMC/HSC Compliant Saloon with a current Certificate of Description you are welcome to contact either Dale or myself for details.
Entry is by invitation.

This is our only true Historic Event on our calendar.

Cheers
Bruce D

[Spgeti]

Entries received to date for HSC.

Dave Thompson Snr, The Auto Trader Mk1 Escort Shell Sport Ex Harrington.
Paul McCarthy, Mk1 Escort RS1600 BDG Broadspeed FIA Group 2.
Dennis McConnell, Mk1 Escort Twin Cam, a car raced since 1974.
Colin Campbell, Mk1 Escort RS2000.
Poul Christie, Mk1 Escort RS2000, Broadspeed FIA Group 2.
Howard Wood, BMW 2002 tii FIA Group 2.
Pat Excell, Anglia 1500 GT.
Rex Bentham, Mk2 Jaguar 3.8 Ex Westall.
Pete Cowan, Mk1 Capri 3000GT.
Neville Hills, Mk2 Escort RS2000, Ex Kibble.
Ian Williamson, Mazda RX2 Coupe
Natalie Campbell, Mk1 Capri 3000GT
John McKechnie, The Cambridge Monaro, Ex Black and Coppins.
Dennis Mills, Datsun 510


Still many more to come and I will update the list as entries received.

[John McKechnie]

The ex -Westall car is a welcome sight back on the track. Mike Westall really made this car fly when he raced it in the early 90s. Always a regular runner in the Classic field where we had all sorts such as Pine Pack Mustang, Camaro, Les Parkinsons XJS V12-currently run by Foggy,definitely great fields then. Neat these cars have survived and are still racing for our enjoyment.

[Spgeti]

If anyone with a suitable pre 78 Saloon with a current COD or the car has not been modified outside of its COD is interested in joining our group at Taupo please contact me to discuss.
This is an invite only meeting and you will need to register with us prior to racing.
This only to HSC suitable Saloons on our Eligibility List.

Cheers
Bruce

[John McKechnie]

I fully support this very first HSC class and as such have entered the Team Cambridge Monaro in it.
The Monaro is looking forward to be running against its old mates such as Jack Nazer Escort, Red Dawson Mustang and any other cars from 1969- 1975 season.
I also raced against the Fleetwood Mustang in the Rod Coppins Trophy event BayPark 1993, would enjoy doing it again.
Its Bucket List time every race meeting.

[Steve Holmes]

I fully support this very first HSC class and as such have entered the Team Cambridge Monaro in it.
The Monaro is looking forward to be running against its old mates such as Jack Nazer Escort, Red Dawson Mustang and any other cars from 1969- 1975 season.
I also raced against the Fleetwood Mustang in the Rod Coppins Trophy event BayPark 1993, would enjoy doing it again.
Its Bucket List time every race meeting.

Be awesome to have you there John. Like you say, its a reacquaintance of some very special racing sedans from a special time in NZ motorsport.

[kiwi285]

These two photos were taken at Baypark in October 1968 and were one of the first occasions the twin cam Ford Escorts raced in NZ. Does anyone have a program from this meet or be able to identify who was driving each of these cars. Excuse the quality.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7886/32703309268_a84f5cf4f9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RPT1tN)Escort Twin Cam at Baypark (https://flic.kr/p/RPT1tN) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4917/32703308958_98c7481759_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RPT1os)Escort Twin Cams at Baypark 1 (https://flic.kr/p/RPT1os) by Mike Feisst (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605843@N06/), on Flickr

[kiwi285]

Milan - I have pm'd you regarding these two photos above.

Mike

[Milan Fistonic]

The only Bay Park event in October 1968 that I have been able to find is a minor Tauranga Car Club meeting held on October 5. I don't have a programme nor did Motorman have a report.

The next meeting at Bay Park was a Gold Star event on November 17 at which there were a number of Escort Twin Cams competing including one numbered 45 and driven by R. Uden from Tokoroa.

The other Escort TCs were in the hands of Tony Batchelor (23), Jack Nazer (63), Dave Simpson (100), Jim Carney (102) and Jim Kennedy (6).

[kiwi285]

Thank you very much for the info Milan. You are a champion.

[Milan Fistonic]

I was wrong about there not being a Motorman report on the October 5 1968 Bay Park meeting. I missed it because it wasn't listed on the contents page.

So car 45 was Dave Simpson's car and 37 must have been Jack Nazer.

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A couple of interesting pieces about Nazer and Simpson in Pit Chatter

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[Spgeti]

Great article Milan. Dave Simpson is attending Taupo GP as our guest along with Kerry Grant for signings and meeting the public.
Thrilled to have them attend.

We will have other visitors as well and will release the details as they are confirmed.

[kiwi285]

Milan - I have pm'd you again.

[Paul B]

Here are some more pics from Nigel Watts from Taupo Historic GP on 18,19,20 January 2019
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A big thanks to Nigel Watts for sharing his photos

[Paul B]

More pics courtesy of Nigel Watts
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[Paul B]

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Photo by Nigel Watts

[Spgeti]

Thanks Paul for putting these up.

HSC ran 2 races over the weekend which were solely HSC only. It was a great success and the objective was to showcase HSC.
John McKechnie allowed the Cambridge Monaro to run in this on Saturday in the hands of Bruce Thompson. We don’t seem to have any photos of it in our grid which is a shame.
We also ran with HMC 2 combined Standing Start Reverse Grid Handicap races and 2 Rolling Start Scratch Races over the weekend so for the HSC guys and girl, 6 races in all.

No damage and a tremendous amount of fun.

[nigel watts]

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[Spgeti]

Thanks Nigel, the photos are just fantastic. Sorry I missed you at Taupo as I was busy with alsorts.

[Milan Fistonic]

Quote: John McKechnie allowed the Cambridge Monaro to run in this on Saturday in the hands of Bruce Thompson. We don’t seem to have any photos of it in our grid which is a shame.

I did manage to get this shot of Bruce in the Monaro.

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[John McKechnie]

Well done Milan. Monaro seen and heard in the first Historic Saloon Car event.
There was not enough gap between races for me to do the others.

[Spgeti]

Thanks Milan, sorry that I missed you as well.
Photo is very much welcome and out there with a classic Datsun 510....Dennis Mills.

[nigel watts]

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[kiwi285]

Nigel those photos are great especially the ones showing the Monaro on track with the HSC cars. Thank you John for allowing it to race with those Escorts, Capris and the other small capacity cars from that era.

[John McKechnie]

Mike...I watched this race with Bruce driving and I loved it.
I stated before Taupo, my aim was to have the Monaro running with the cars it used to pre 1976.
And each time there is a separate HSC grid , the Monaro ,under my ownership will be there.
That is what Historic racing is all about...

[Steve Holmes]

Mike...I watched this race with Bruce driving and I loved it.
I stated before Taupo, my aim was to have the Monaro running with the cars it used to pre 1976.
And each time there is a separate HSC grid , the Monaro ,under my ownership will be there.
That is what Historic racing is all about...

Well said John, and I agree with the others. It was so great to see the Monaro run with the HSC class. It looked right at home. Thank you for allowing this.

[khyndart in CA]

It is a brave man who can watch someone else drive his car and enjoy it !
Thank you John for giving up so much for others to also enjoy such as letting passengers go out on demonstration laps etc.
Just a quick tip but Rowan Harman said the Monaro handled a lot better with my fat butt in the passenger seat !
(p.s. the car looks very bright and shiny, you must have a dedicated crew.)



(Ken H)

[Spgeti]

Mike...I watched this race with Bruce driving and I loved it.
I stated before Taupo, my aim was to have the Monaro running with the cars it used to pre 1976.
And each time there is a separate HSC grid , the Monaro ,under my ownership will be there.
That is what Historic racing is all about...

Thank you John, it is always a privilege to have a genuine period historic car run in our grid and to David Thompson Snr as well with the Auto Trader Escort for supporting us at this meeting.

I would also like to pass on our thanks to all our HMC and HSC Racers for there attendance and making our weekend so successful.

We will be back next year stronger and better and planning has already started for next years event.
If this interests you please contact Steve, Dale or myself.

[Howard Wood]

Thank you John, it is always a privilege to have a genuine period historic car run in our grid and to David Thompson Snr as well with the Auto Trader Escort as well for supporting us at this meeting as well.

I would also like to pass on our thanks to all our HMC and HSC Racers for there attendance and making our weekend so successful.

We will be back next year stronger and better and planning has already started for next years event.
If this interests you please contact Steve, Dale or myself.

And a huge thank you Bruce, without your tremendous effort and perseverance the stand alone HSC grid would never have happened.

And thanks too, to Mike for his genial organisation on the day and Dale for his vision. It is so gratifying to see that people are embracing the concept of period correct Historic racing.

[Spgeti]

And a huge thank you Bruce, without your tremendous effort and perseverance the stand alone HSC grid would never have happened.

And thanks too, to Mike for his genial organisation on the day and Dale for his vision. It is so gratifying to see that people are embracing the concept of period correct Historic racing.

Thank you Howard, what two great races the HSC group put on and the battle between you, Colin and Ian was just tremendous.
The reverse handicap HMC/HSC races were just as exciting as well.

Need that injection now Howard and those tyres....

[kiwi285]

I wholeheartedly agree Howard, without the tremendous amount of work put in by the Directors and all other helpers we would not have progressed as far as we have. I am sure that the racing we provided over that weekend will have impressed a lot of people and we can only go forward from here.

Thanks for the kind comments. We all try and do our thing to help.

[Spgeti]

Thanks Mike, that’s a very good point.

During the winter lay off we have been working behind the scenes to formalise our two groups.

We are now NZ Historic Muscle & Saloon Cars Inc and we are also affiliated to MSNZ.

While Tony, Dale, Steve and myself still retain positions in the organisation we also have a Committee to help us run our group.
Without the help of these other volunteers we would find it to much for one person run our race days etc.
I would like to thank all those others who help us and in particular Mike Wigmore who works tirelessly organising the grids for us.
It was no mean feat for Mike, 2 groups, and 6 races over the weekend.

Also to Glenn Allingham and John Sampson who are our Race Coordinators and keep everyone in check and a weekend of no damage. Well done guys.

To Tania Allingham, who arranges our social functions, our souvenir shop and our accommodation, and to Mike Feisst for his photographic skills in arranging the group photos and runs our FB Page.

To Grant Sprague who looked after our invited Legends, thanks Grant.

Thanks guys and girls.

[kiwi285]

Here are some of the photos I took over the weekend of the teams and personalities who make up the class. Our invited Legends are always busy talking to people and, in my eyes, really make a hit with people at the track.

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Milan Fistonic, Paul Berkahn and Ken Hyndman

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Will post some more soon.

[Steve Holmes]

Great progress on another new build for Historic Saloon Cars. This is the FIA Appendix K MkI Escort of Grant Sprague. 2 litre BDG engine and will be an awesome little screamer. It'll be painted in white and light blue as per the car raced by his brother Gary in the NZ Saloon Car Championship in period.

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[Spgeti]

Our next event for NZ Historic Muscle & Saloon Cars is The Legends of Speed Meeting put on by the good folk at HRC on the 23/24th March at Hampton Downs.
This is our 3rd major event for the season and we are hoping for a good turnout of both HMC and HSC cars.

Entry is now up on : www.motorsportentry.com

We do have a special guest confirmed for this event and that is Roy Harrington. Roy will be available for signing of posters on the Saturday only and David Thompson Snr has entered the Auto Trader Escort that Roy won his two Shell Sport Championships in 1984 and 1985.
Roy along with his family will also be bringing his mechanic from those days when he raced.

We may have one other guest but we are awaiting confirmation at this stage.

[Spgeti]

Well Legends of Speed was a huge success for us and now we head to BMMP for our final race meeting of the season, The Dennis Marwood Classic, again put on by the good people from HRC.

This for us is a fun event and already our grid is building for both HMC and HSC.

Across from Australia is Nick Bowyer who will race his NZ based Mk2 Escort 1600 Sport and we welcome Nick to our grid.

Also racing will be Karl Sentch in his beautiful Datsun 240Z who will join Tony Roberts in his Corvette to form our initial group of Historic Sports & GT (HS&GT). This is for 1965 to 1974, front engine rear wheel drive Hardtop cars and will develop from there to gauge interest and if enough numbers come along we will form a separate group.
These cars will all run under Appendix 6 Schedule T&C and must be able to get a COD.
If you are interested contact myself or talk to Karl and Tony at the track.

A very suitable car for this group is for sale at the moment and listed here under “cars for sale” is Andrew Metford’s 1974 MGBGT. Have a look and very well priced.

As well as the racing we also will be having our Awards Evening and Dinner to celebrate our season.

Entry is via, www.motorsortentry.com

Cheers
Bruce

[Spgeti]

Well one season has gone and we are well into planning for the next.
Tonight I will put up the details of our program of next seasons events.

Also Paul Berkahn will be helping me with putting up photos for this thread which is gratefully appreciated as I don’t have the computer software to do this.

Cheers

[Paul B]

First up is Terry Price's beautiful Jag, Terry runs a restoration business and this is a fine example of his quality work
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[Paul B]

The Team Cambridge Monaro
John Mckechnie the current owner of the Team Cambridge Monaro as been awarded The Lupp Trophy by Motorsport NZ at the recent Annual general meeting.
(Also shown are the miniature presentation that John keeps along with the Denis Hulme Trophy presented to John at the 2014 Festival.)
After some time spent by John trying to find the original car he eventually found the car and some associated parts in Whanganui. The car was in a poor state so John had the huge task of restoring the car to the beauty it is today.
John at Manfield in 2017
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Trophies
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Photo Courtesy of Nigel Watts
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[Paul B]

And this is what John picked up in Whanganui, The left overs of the Coppins Cambridge Monaro. John said the pictures looked worse than the car actually was.
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A very impressive feat to bring this special car back to its forma glory

[Grant Ellwood]

And this is what John picked up in Whanganui, The left overs of the Coppins Cambridge Monaro. John said the pictures looked worse than the car actually was.
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A very impressive feat to bring this special car back to its forma glory

Well deserved trophy and accolades, the Monaro restoration deserves a book of its own. Congratulations John!

[Spgeti]

Well deserved trophy and accolades, the Monaro restoration deserves a book of its own. Congratulations John!

The Lupp Trophy is awarded for voluntary services and John qualified for that with his work on establishing the Historic Sports Sedan Group plus his restoration of the Monaro and that he regularly races it.

He was up against stiff opposition for this award and it is one of the premier awards for the year given out by MSNZ.

Well deserved.

[khyndart in CA]

Congratulations John for being awarded for all the hard work and organizing that you so generously do. Very well deserved.

Also thanks to Bruce and Paul and Dale plus all involved in keeping these series of historic racing going.
The quality of cars and racing is second to none. Well done and may the coming season be the best yet.

Ken H

[John McKechnie]

Thanks guys for your kind words.
Now that its back to how it was, the painful long process of rusty metal replacement is a fading memory.

[Roger Dowding]

Thanks guys for your kind words.
Now that its back to how it was, the painful long process of rusty metal replacement is a fading memory.

John Mck, ERC, Spgeti, Dale and others;
A mate [a neighbour Ian ] is thinking of coming to the Supercars Race in September [ 14-15 ] and wants a navigator/passenger in his Holden Ute so am thinking of joining him - share petrol costs etc - will your guys classes be running.
Ian remembers racing at Pukekohe when Norm Beechey bought his Monaro over - think he did Baypark and Puke one summer in 1971 !!
A photo - not mine - see the credit !!

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If you Guys are coming - would be a bigger incentive to come. Will have a pit pass and camera !!
Would be the second day the Sunday [ 15th ] - be good to catch up / actually meet in some cases.

Was last at a Supercars event in late 2009, the Sydney [ Homebush - Olympic ] course.
Have the little badge from their - and the Telstra Goody Bag and ticket - no photos though - was hard to get a good view without an expensive stand ticket.

[Spgeti]

Sorry Roger we are not racing at the Supercars event.

We normally only race at historic based meetings.

Perhaps we can catch up with you at the Taupo Historic GP in January.

Regards

[Roger Dowding]

Sorry Roger we are not racing at the Supercars event.

We normally only race at historic based meetings.

Perhaps we can catch up with you at the Taupo Historic GP in January.

Regards

Will try for that - Event and Track looks way better than Hampton Downs - was last there Taupo for the 2008 A1 GP when it was a series !! at Hampton Downs in January 2018- long time between meetings [ except for a few Lakeside 2011 - 2015 and that Syndey one in 2009.
Cheers

Roger

[Spgeti]

Our Calendar for the coming race season is as follows :

3rd November 2019, TACCOC Spring Meeting, Pukekohe,
15/16/17th November 2019, MG Classic, Circuit Chris Amon, Manfeild, Feilding,
8th December 2019, TACCOC Summer Meeting, Hampton Downs,
17/18/19th January 2020, Taupo Historic Grand Prix, BMMP, Taupo,
7/8th February 2020, ENZED Classic, Levels Raceway, Timaru,
14/15th February 2020, HW Richardson Speedfest, Teretonga, Invercargill,
23/24th March 2020, Paul Fahey Legends of Speed, Hampton Downs,
25/26th April 2020, Jack Nazer Classic, BMMP, Taupo.

To enter our grid your cars must have a COD and you must be a registered member or an invited guest.

Cheers

[Spgeti]

Greetings all,

It’s been a while since I have written in our thread.

It is 4 years ago since we held our first combined HMC/HSC event, the 2016 Festival featuring Porsche.

We have come along way since then and have a very solid base of HSC cars, all period correct and with COD’s.

We have introduced FIA Appendix K cars to our fleet and now have 4 cars in our fleet with several cars being built.

This year with both groups we had 28 cars on the grid at The MG Classic, 25 cars on the grid at the Taupo Historic GP and as we head on our second South Island Tour, we did this in 2017, and will again have 22 on the grid for The South Canterbury Hydraulics Classic at Levels and 22 on the grid at The George Begg Speedfest at Teretonga.

We now have interest from Australia via Group Nb and Nc car owners wanting to join us and individuals racing in HMC our group with Australian Trans Am Cars, one who is doing our full season this year.

Our next meeting is the Legends of Speed Meeting where we will be celebrating Paul Fahey in March.

We want to see historic saloon cars at that meeting on display from Pauls era to celebrate his racing.

Please give me a call if you have a suitable car to display.

Kind Regards

Bruce

[Keith844]

My footage from Sunday race one at the MG Classic. Great racing!


https://youtu.be/vXkYL2lRfts

[Spgeti]

Well we are back….but Historic Saloon Cars are part of HVRA-Historic & Vintage Racing NZ.

Yes Historic Saloon Cars Ltd is a company owned by myself since 2017 and is still under my ownership.
It is time to carry on

We are not in anyway tied to HMC or Pre78’s….and that is a good thing.

It is time to carry on the thread…and yes we allow cars that do comply with MSNZ Appendix Six and that is without question but we do also allow Saloon Cars, Sports and GT’s and Touring Cars from 1/1961 up to 12/1982 that do not quite comply.

Why..because we need the numbers….

Our team is as follows…
Leon Hallett….63 1/2 FIA Galaxie…..63 Falcon Sprint…vintage class winner of Pikes Peak….and SCCA A Sedan 1970 Boss Mustang….not a cheater…and all the cars are historically correct.
Karl Sentch…known by many of you… Capri Perana, Capri RS2600, Escort Holbay…all replicas but again totally correct.
Stacy Lines…the Mini Guy..watch what appears.
Bruce Spgeti Dyer….Historic Elf…and like Leon and Karl the founders of HVRA.

We are not full of rubbish…we are enthusiasts…

We welcome constructive criticism but with courtesy…

If you’re interested in joining us…just give us a call….

Mike Lucas will be our Roaring Season administrator, you do know him from ERC Race Series and he owns one very cool Viva GT replica….please welcome Mike.

[nzeder]

Here I am again -- it has been a while since I posted on a web forum -- I used to very active on many web forums (mainly Datsun S30 aka 240z/260z related, I have owned over 11 Datsun's over 30+ years (mostly S30 aka 240z/260z and never a 2+2 only 2 seaters))

So I have been a Zed man for many of years -- however all have been sold now. Sold the last one after I decided to move on my Classic Mini Trackcar -- my first British car, first FWD and first 4 cylinder trackcar. I stepped away from all things car for .... well 12 months. So the Zed connection is why I have the user name nZeder -- as a proud Kiwi aka NZer

I was then asked by Karl Sentch if I would help out with the new HVRA group but doing the grid co-ordinator. How could I say no, a good bunch of like minded individuals, with very lovely presented Classic Cars wanting to have a few good weekends a year racing around the track and have a bit of banter between races.

I now have my second British car -- a Vauxhall Viva GT replica. I am sure many of the ford supporters will be asking why a GM/Vauxhall Viva. For me it is different to the sea of Escort you see on the tracks around NZ, it was factory fitted with 4 link rear solid axle and good front suspension setup -- so on paper looked good to me, and I was asked if it would be a car I would be interested in when it came up for sale.

The old Mini
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Old Zed 74 260z 2 seater track car I was building at one point.
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My first Datsun - a 77 260z 2 seater --- this was the last Zed I sold.
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My current trackcar -- the Viva GT Replica
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Regards
Mike Lucas

[ERC]

They are still welcome with the ERC Group, but years ago, we had two groups. Saloons then Sports/GT. We shifted to two speed groups on the grounds of safety as although a quick Lotus Elan is tiny against a Jaguar XJ6, the speed differential was deemed more important.

Over time, the number of sports cars as a percentage of grids has shrunk dramatically and commercially, a small grid is not viable.

We have lost Lotus Elan, Lotus 7, Triumph Spitfire, Morgan, TR3, TR5, TR6, MG Midget, Reliant Scimitar, E Type Jaguar, TVR M Series, Marcos, Aston Martin, Ferrari and most MGB's etc. over recent years.

Equally, as you well know, a fields of Fords and just one Vauxhall merely proves the fact that the spares and knowledge availability is vast for Fords, less so for other makes, especially sports and GT cars.

Setting rarer cars up for racing basically devalues them, as originality is now sought after rather more than a limited race provenance.

[Spgeti]

The Sports & GT group was included in HSC many years ago due to these cars were disappearing…..as you rightfully have stated Ray.
With the formation of HVRA we continued this on and are building this group…today we have an FIA 70 Corvette, a very nic MGC GTS yes a replica but built in the UK, a very nice MGB GT V8 with C bonnet and Sebring kit, three TR7/8 V8’s, three stunning Porsche 911’s in various configurations, an Alfa Montreal, two Datsuns 240Z’s and several MGB’s….

This is a group for us we want to keep working on building….sadly the Austin Healey’s and early TR’s have gone and that is seriously disappointing….but we live in hope.

The meeting you refer to as Formula Ford was unfortunately wet and the other GM cars stayed in the garage…but our GM and Japanese groups are growing.

Thank you Ray for all the effort you have contributed to over your many years…it has not been forgotten.

Kind Regards
Bruce

[ERC]

Thanks Bruce. Good to see the growth.

Over the years, the ERC group has morphed from 4 cylinder BMC only to today's Europeans.

Whilst we have always supported the purist approach, along with Alfa Romeo, we felt that there were too many cars where total conformity wasn't what many drivers wanted.

We saw ourselves as a logical stepping stone from those new to racing, who may have had a crack at Classic Trials and wanted to step up one level, without getting too serious and still able to run a road car. They could then step up from ERC in whatever direction they wanted. The series boomed and then other classes came along such as 2KCup and initially, the BMW E series.

BMW have tapped into a market where cars are easily available and their various groups have grown.

There always was an opening for classic race saloons and it is great to see your group growing.

However, the ERC group has suffered not so much because of any competition, but many drivers have elected to park their cars partly due to rising costs, partly due to the rarity aspect and partly due to retirement.

Classic Trial was initially a cheaper option for a day on track, and a great starter, but again, rising costs have hit them too, so they haven't fed into the ERC group. Their fields haven't grown and the loss of Pukekohe as an alternative track hasn't helped either group or Auckland based drivers generally.

ERC runs hand in hand with Alfa and often there are combined grids.

We allowed Tony Roberts Corvette and the Datsun Z's as at that time, there was nowhere else for them to run.

Right from my first involvement in 1996/97, I felt I had no choice but to adopt a pragmatic approach rather than a purist approach and I don't regret for one minute allowing in the Corvette and Datsun Z's, nor allowing in later models nor even repowered classics - even though some objected to allowing in 'Hot Rods'. Only one repowered car ever ran (ie non original engine type) despite the critics claiming we'd be overrun.

The rising costs for promoters have inevitably put pressure on financially viable grids and I for one have no problem if there are two or three or more 'classes' in a grid.

The only criteria for us has always been driver respect for other cars as that is far more important than car purity.

[Spgeti]

We have a pragmatic approach to the grid Ray and while we are a historic group we do accept cars that don’t totally meet the criteria set down by our MSNZ Appendix Six, Historic.
We still have a very high level of compliance in the group but driving standards are first and foremost the education on historic racing philosophy.
We have a very good relationship with Chris Browne and the ERC group and that is one of our strengths……relationships.

We are always prepared to combine with another group for the sake of meeting grid numbers and we have a golden rule…work with the promotors as we need them to be able to race.

Take care Ray…