Rorstan Brabham 2.5's

[Terry S]

I am doing some research on the early Brabham 2.5's that competed in the Tasman Series, and would greatly appreciate any assistance.

There seems to be two Brabhams that by mid 1967 had ended up with Rorstan Racing (Feo Stanton & Ian Rorison)

---- The first was a Brabham BT7A originally used by Brabham in 64 Tasman Series. Subsequently owned by Jim Palmer and Andy Buchanan. Then sold to Rorstan for Paul Bolton to drive.

---- The second was a Brabham BT 23 used by Denny Hulme in early 68 Tasman races fitted with Repco V8 2.5.
Shunted and sold to Rorstan. Converted to Climax 2.5. May have been driven by Brian Faloon.

Any help with their history and current whereabouts greatly appreciated.

[bry3500]

http://www.oldracingcars.com/rennmax/bn3/

[rf84]

Think that should read "Ian Rorison" (as in Rorison Transport). Rorstan was an amalgamation of the 2 names-Rorison and Stanton.

[Michael Clark]

Terry, both Jimmy P and Andy have asked me the same question - whatever happened to their old car?

Even David McKinney was stumped!

Denny with a 2.5 Repco powered BT23! Not in 1968 when he had the FVA powered 23. According to Vercoe, Denny had a Repco powered BT19 in 67 which is shown as the car Paul Bolton ran in 1968. Dennis Marwood is shown as driving it at the F5000 Monaco Trophy race on 28/12/68 and in the 69 Tasman. Did bits of that go on the Rorstan?

[Terry S]

Terry, both Jimmy P and Andy have asked me the same question - whatever happened to their old car?

Even David McKinney was stumped!

Denny with a 2.5 Repco powered BT23! Not in 1968 when he had the FVA powered 23. According to Vercoe, Denny had a Repco powered BT19 in 67 which is shown as the car Paul Bolton ran in 1968. Dennis Marwood is shown as driving it at the F5000 Monaco Trophy race on 28/12/68 and in the 69 Tasman. Did bits of that go on the Rorstan?

This is very confusing....
I made a mistake in my first post, there were actually three Brabhams run by Rorstan, the BT7A, the BT22(?) and the BT23.

I have looked up Allen Brown's Old Racing Cars site as suggested by bry 3500, and it says Hulme used a BT22 in 67 and that went to Rorstan for 68 for Paul Bolton. It is shown as BT22 F1-1-64.

Curiously in the summary by models it only lists ONE BT22, that used by Jim Palmer being BT22 IC-1-66
In the Ron Tauranac site it is noted that only ONE BT22 was ever built, the Palmer car.

Michael, there is no mention in Brown's site of Hulme using a BT19 in 67.

Can someone please help

[Michael Clark]

No but there is in Vercoe. I went over all of this with DMcK some years ago and now wonder if I ever kept his records because at the time my thought would have been - if I ever need to know this again, I'll just email Dave.

[Racer Rog]

I would not take all of what is Vercoe's books, as being the gospel, there are many mistakes, but the books are a starting point, and I guess he has been told many times what was wrong etc, but they are still a good effort.

Roger

[Powder]

Michael, there is no mention in Brown's site of Hulme using a BT19 in 67.

Can someone please help

Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know it's not always the most reliable of sources) states that Hulme used the BT19 at the 1967 Belgian GP.

DSJ also says in his report on the race for 'MotorSport' that Hulme used "the 1965 chassis", which is when the BT19 was built.

[Terry S]

Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know it's not always the most reliable of sources) states that Hulme used the BT19 at the 1967 Belgian GP.

DSJ also says in his report on the race for 'MotorSport' that Hulme used "the 1965 chassis", which is when the BT19 was built.

Powder, my reference to "67" was to the 1967 Tasman Series, NOT to the World Chamionship.
That is, what was he using in the Tasman Series?

[GD66]

25095


BT19

[Milan Fistonic]

No but there is in Vercoe. I went over all of this with DMcK some years ago and now wonder if I ever kept his records because at the time my thought would have been - if I ever need to know this again, I'll just email Dave.


This is what David wrote about the BT22 and the BT19.

Brabham would run a lightweight F2-based BT23A and for Hulme entered an agreement with the Palmers to borrow a little-raced BT22 which they had bought on spec in England. At the end of the season this would revert to its New Zealand owners, complete with Repco V8 engine. However, when the Ferrari deal did not proceed, the BT22 was needed for Jim Palmer, and Hulme would use one of the previous season's F1 BT19 models for his Tasman campaign.

[Michael Clark]

ORC records two BT22s in the same race which would be tricky if you believe there was only ever one made. I had thought two or three BT11s were upgraded to BT22 spec but would have still carried BT11 plates.

So the BT19 seems to have gone to Rorison at the end of the 67 Tasman to be then driven by Bolton and Dennis Marwood.

[GD66]

But not with the V8 Repco fitted...

[Terry S]

So irrespective of whether it was a BT11, BT19 or BT22, it seems general agreement that it was an ex GP car.

On this basis it would have been fairly valuable.
Being in OZ I don't have the NZ domestic race records of the time so not possible to track.

Surely someone in NZ must know what happened to this car, and does it still exist?

[Michael Clark]

According the ORC, it is in Australia

[stubuchanan]

ORC records two BT22s in the same race which would be tricky if you believe there was only ever one made. I had thought two or three BT11s were upgraded to BT22 spec but would have still carried BT11 plates.

So the BT19 seems to have gone to Rorison at the end of the 67 Tasman to be then driven by Bolton and Dennis Marwood.

Paul Bolton wrote off one Rorstan Brabham at Levin in November 1967 (when a brake pad became welded to the disc), according to 'Motorman" mag. Which car was this?

Stu

[Terry S]

Paul Bolton wrote off one Rorstan Brabham at Levin in November 1967 (when a brake pad became welded to the disc), according to 'Motorman" mag. Which car was this?

Stu

Stu, does it say which Brabham was written off, the BT7A or the BT19?

[bry3500]

According to Sergents web page - Paul Bolton was driving a BT19 at Levin 1968
http://www.sergent.com.au/motor/osdriversb.html

[Terry S]

25095


BT19

I've had a good look through my copy of this yearbook and unfortunately it does not describe a model number for the Hulme car.

It just notes it was "a late 1965 F1 car" fitted with a Repco 2.5L V8

The photos of HUlme sliding it are terrific.

[stubuchanan]

Stu, does it say which Brabham was written off, the BT7A or the BT19?

I believe the Levin write-off was the BT7A but only on evidence from G Vercoe's books. He lists the Rorstan(Bolton) car as the BT19 for the international season. But, it doesn't stop there! Bolton put the other car backwards through an outbuilding beside a hangar on the first lap of the Wigram Trophy a couple of months later! There is an Euan Sarginson photo in the Shell 1968 NZ Motor Racing book of the car and if there are any significant differences between the models this might answer the query. They rebuilt or built-up one car out of the bits over the winter and ran it the next season as a BT19

Stu

[Oldfart]

Being a bit of a cynic, is it possible that cars which were deemed to be a "write off" would reappear some time later as something re-named. It was the time of very restrictive import regulations and to need parts to repair was always much easier than a new car. Space frame cars have never been that hard to rebuild and write off was used fairly freely to describe a bit more than a shunt.

[Terry S]

I realise I made a number of mistakes in this thread I started, and even had the thread title incorrect.
I didn't realise at the time how complex this topic of Rorstan's cars was, and how much disputed evidence there is.
After many hours of research I think I may finally be on top of it, he says hopefully.

I have decided to start a new thread on these Rorstan Tasman cars, and hopefully cover the full story. This thread can then die.