Historic Sport Sedans

[Kiwiboss]

Hi Everyone, it is with great pleasure it can be announced that Historic Sports Sedans will be running at Hampdon Downs at the Ferrari meeting in January next year.
After discussions with Jim Barclay, the wording of the pre 85 class Open Saloon Class now to read-
Pre ’85 & Invited Allcomers and Historic Sports Sedans’
So the momentum that has kept them going with the great work of Robert Jack, Rodger Williams and recently George Shewiery will keep going.
All entries to be directed to Jim Barclay for this meeting. www.motorsportentry.com
As it is Historic, the desired spirit is getting the car on the track for enjoyment
This thread is to inform people and the drivers of the change as there is 8 weeks to go

[nigel watts]

Excellent news. I look forward to seeing some interesting cars on the track.

[Rod Grimwood]

Yep, there it is in a nut shell boys and girls. Run with the historic/classic people and you will slip in easy and have fun. Hope to see you all there having fun, and don't forget the chilly bin.
Lets get that smile back on me mate George's face, and everyone else's.

This is good news, and thanks Mr Barclay for the offer.

[ERC]

Great news! I won't be racing, but will be armed with the camera.

[kiwi285]

Great news - am really looking forward to seeing those great cars on track again hopefully with some additional cars. See what happens George.

The Festival is shaping up to be another great event. Have already booked for both weekends.

Mike

[Rod Grimwood]

This old (young) girl ran at Manfield a Couple weeks back, be good to se it have a run at the Festival.

[Rod Grimwood]

These were there as well, awesome to see a couple of the original Sports Sedans/OSCA cars, Had chat with boys

The Capri would be NZ's most used Capri and is still sweet.

The Mazda is also a sweet car and old owner Ralph Mossman had a little tear in his eye when he checked her out.

Be nice to have these boys on board for a run as well.

[Rod Grimwood]

Another car that has done the yards, and is still a sweet little car, and the driver sure knows how to enjoy himself, he and his missus/cook/chef/mechanic/pit crew had a smile on their faces all weekend, they would love Hampton Downs.

[ERC]

Wow! Fingers crossed we get a lot more of these. What they have is character or individuality and in just three pics, they encapsulate exactly why those days were so good and why a lot of today's racers are so bland. Thanks Rod.

If you know of any one driver of one of these great saloons who would like to run at the Festival but is a deserving cause for a little bit of financial support, send me a private message (in strict confidence of course) and we'll donate say $300, from our series reserves, if it means they'll be there on track instead of staying home.

[Rod Grimwood]

Wow! Fingers crossed we get a lot more of these. What they have is character or individuality and in just three pics, they encapsulate exactly why those days were so good and why a lot of today's racers are so bland. Thanks Rod.

If you know of any one driver of one of these great saloons who would like to run at the Festival but is a deserving cause for a little bit of financial support, send me a private message (in strict confidence of course) and we'll donate say $300, from our series reserves, if it means they'll be there on track instead of staying home.


I will be trying to contact them after chatting with Graeme, and others.

can you email me phone contact etc for yourself. cheers

grimmie64@xtra.co.nz

[spinner32]

Rod, I would have to disagree with you about the Capri being the most raced in NZ. It appears to be the car Brent Bullivant built up in the late 70's, but don't forget Munty's Capri came to NZ in the early 70's and raced continuously until he built the Commodore in the late 80's. Son Evan then did a few more seasons in it. Still great to see them back on the track. Cheers, Pete

[kiwi285]

Great cars and certainly ones we haven't seen in the upper North Island. Yes they would make a great addition to the fields for January. I am sure there will be more lurking in the background as well. Nice photos Rod - do you have any more ?

[kiwi285]

Wow! Fingers crossed we get a lot more of these. What they have is character or individuality and in just three pics, they encapsulate exactly why those days were so good and why a lot of today's racers are so bland. Thanks Rod.

If you know of any one driver of one of these great saloons who would like to run at the Festival but is a deserving cause for a little bit of financial support, send me a private message (in strict confidence of course) and we'll donate say $300, from our series reserves, if it means they'll be there on track instead of staying home.

Fantastic offer ERC. If I wasn't trying to survive on the pension just at the moment I would offer to do the same. It would be worth it to see these cars on track and being exercised. Man this could shape up to be a fantastic meeting with such cars hitting the track.

If I can help in any way I would like to be involved.

Mike

[Rod Grimwood]

spinner32, yep I do know the Munty car very well, and the lucky guys to have played in it and it has the miles. The Bullivant car has had a couple of owners as well and has not been idle at all, running consistantly since it was built, but I am not going to count numbers as it would be great to see both cars together sometime.

Bullivant built the car in 1975 when he was mechanic for Jim Richards.

[spinner32]

spinner32, yep I do know the Munty car very well, and the lucky guys to have played in it and it has the miles. The Bullivant car has had a couple of owners as well and has not been idle at all, running consistantly since it was built, but I am not going to count numbers as it would be great to see both cars together sometime.

Bullivant built the car in 1975 when he was mechanic for Jim Richards.

They have raced against each other, Rod. Back around 1980 when Graham Baker owned the Bullivant car he was not allowed to race OSCA as it had a space frame front. So he would enter the Flying Farewell. I recall a race at Timaru where he had a tremendous dice with Inky Tulloch in his Capri. Other drivers might disagree, but Graham and that Capri were the only serious competition to Inky at that time. The OSCA final used to be over 15 laps of the old Levels circuit. In this race Inky used to drop back, and around the 8 lap mark Inky's mechanic (whose name escapes me) would stroll out to the pit wall and give Inky the signal. Whereupon Inky would go for it and see how close to the end of the race before he would hit the front. The races with Graham Baker, however, were flat out from flag drop.
The Munt car would always be chasing these two in front. Cheers, Pete

[Rod Grimwood]

Like this.

[John McKechnie]

227792278022781227822278322784

[John McKechnie]

Here is Barry Algies Monaro that i photoed yesterday.This car is exactly as it last ran. Yes , the front is off being glassed.
This would be one of the first Sports Sedans as he was working on it in 1975.
Barry needs financial assistance as he is getting on in years and no regular income.
Any help here can be seen as sponsorship or recognition by having your name written on this highly visible billboard.
My name and business is going on, who else wants to be part of this?
Will be posting more pics today.
Barry left my place just now to place his entry, join HRC and pay more off the radiator bill.
Gordon Burr is entered so both the Algie creations will be there
With these cars, it is preferable to have a rolling start so that will be looked in to.
Technically-
Motor completely set back, new firewall,spoiler width of the car, same height as the roof.
Small block 400, 327 crank, with Lucas fuel injection .
Simple interior and note the ducting to the radiator and GT40 transaxle.
Mechanically unchanged or updated- pure history here.
Yes it will be at HD in Jan and running hard, both car and driver a worthy addition to this Historic field.

[kiwi285]

That is a grouse looking car in every sense of the word. It is another one that I never saw in period so am over the moon that it is going to be on track. As I said above this is shaping up to be a great field of rear machinery not seen for many years. It is starting to pick up as the owners see who else is getting their cars track worthy again.

Just looking at the photos that have been posted here and those on other thread - hell, didn't they build some horny looking cars during that period. The modern stuff is so bland and sanitized that they have no appeal whatsoever to me anyway.

Roll on late January.
Mike

[Shano]

That is a grouse looking car in every sense of the word. Didn't they build some horny looking cars during that period. The modern stuff is so bland and sanitized that they have no appeal whatsoever to me anyway.

Roll on late January.
Mike

Hear hear.

[ERC]

Bearing in mind the link between this car and Gordon Burr, we'll confirm that we'll pay $300 towards getting this particular car along, based on the fact that Gordon has overpaid into our funds anyway over recent years, for the benefit of the series! (Lovely man.) I'm sure he'll be more than happy to see it spent in this way.

That being the case, we'll pay another $300 towards another deserving car/driver combination. A Euro based car would be nice, but the offer stands regardless, as long as John & Rod etc. approve.

[Rod Grimwood]

Bearing in mind the link between this car and Gordon Burr, we'll confirm that we'll pay $300 towards getting this particular car along, based on the fact that Gordon has overpaid into our funds anyway over recent years, for the benefit of the series! (Lovely man.) I'm sure he'll be more than happy to see it spent in this way.

That being the case, we'll pay another $300 towards another deserving car/driver combination. A Euro based car would be nice, but the offer stands regardless, as long as John & Rod etc. approve.



You are so right about Gordon, and his lovely wife. Two real neat people who always have a smile and a hello.
I always make a point of catching up with them when I can, their smiles and enthusiasm make the day.
I remember years ago when he raced/won the Porcshe series, no slug back then was young Gordy.

We will find a recipient for your generous offer, but may have to do a little thinking about who with the interest from some parties and building.

[Andrew Metford]

Here is Barry Algies Monaro that i photoed yesterday.This car is exactly as it last ran. Yes , the front is off being glassed.
This would be one of the first Sports Sedans as he was working on it in 1975.
Barry needs financial assistance as he is getting on in years and no regular income.
Any help here can be seen as sponsorship or recognition by having your name written on this highly visible billboard.
My name and business is going on, who else wants to be part of this?
Will be posting more pics today.
Barry left my place just now to place his entry, join HRC and pay more off the radiator bill.


John, if you're the auto trimmer in Ladies Mile, you've done work on my Dad's ( John Metford ) MK1 Escort ( red vinyl interior ) and his MGB ( black leather seats etc ).

I think it's wonderful of Ray to make the offer he has to help get everyone onto the grid. Unfortunately I don't know a lot of the other original sports sedans hoping to run as they were before my time unfortunately. All I know about most of them is from here and magazine articles

I'd like to chip in to help Barry get his Monaro going for January. We have a photo at home that Dad took of this car in probably the late 80's at Pukekohe, and is one of my first memories of live motorsport. As a little boy ( around 10 years old ), the sight and sound of it thundering down the front straight was just something else.

I'm currently working in Western Australia, but hoping to be home in January for the 2 weekends of the Festival. Please PM me how I can help Barry, and what he owes for the radiator or what ever else he needs to get going and I'll see what I can do.

Andrew Metford.

[John McKechnie]

Andrew- great to hear from you, and yes it is me.
I remember you and your Dad so well. I am still at the same place and it would be neat to see you all again. Hope Dads in fine health , always enjoyed his visits.
This is a fantastic offer, Andrew.. I will pm you on Barrys account number.
The Metford family name will be resplendent at all angles on this car.
As Barry lives close to me when you get here, I will take you to see it

[ERC]

The Metford family. Where would we have been without them as volunteers at so many (MG) events? Hope to catch up in January at the festival Andrew and thanks for the offer.

[fullnoise68]

John, I spoke with Rick Hill at a machinery auction in Rotorua a few years ago, and at the time he was living near Tirau. He`s the type of guy that if you rang him and told him of Barrys predicament he`d probably tip some money in even though he no longer has the panel shop, but just for a trip down memory lane......

[John McKechnie]

As this class is also about Invited Allcomers, can anyone give any details of where abouts and condition of any of them.
The Custaxie 2 is current.
I remember several years ago at Hampton Downs a Rod Coppins tribute MK2 Zephyr- any leads here?
Also another most famous- Ex Doyle Fastback Anglia any recent news here also ?
Ray- as you say, where would we be without the volunteers, absolute backbone of motor racing , cant do much if noone helps- usually unnoticed and under fed at events.

[John McKechnie]

Steve- Thanks for this info.
We are covering this at the moment. rick has sold the business and I have flicked pix and details to current owners and Barry is going to see them.
Every cent gets there.
I will certainly ring him and see if he wants to help and also to come and watch his old friend.
Hardest thing at the moment is making Barry see it is a 2 week end event , pace yourself accordingly- not a 6 lap sprint .
20 year lay off, but he has lost none of his enthusiasm-its catching, a good lead up to Jan.

[ERC]

Ardmore January 1989

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Hampton Downs 2010
22789


Hampton Downs 2010
22790

[RacerT]

Here is Barry Algies Monaro that i photoed yesterday.This car is exactly as it last ran. Yes , the front is off being glassed.
This would be one of the first Sports Sedans as he was working on it in 1975.
Barry needs financial assistance as he is getting on in years and no regular income.
Any help here can be seen as sponsorship or recognition by having your name written on this highly visible billboard.
My name and business is going on, who else wants to be part of this?
Will be posting more pics today.
Barry left my place just now to place his entry, join HRC and pay more off the radiator bill.
Gordon Burr is entered so both the Algie creations will be there
With these cars, it is preferable to have a rolling start so that will be looked in to.
Technically-
Motor completely set back, new firewall,spoiler width of the car, same height as the roof.
Small block 400, 327 crank, with Lucas fuel injection .
Simple interior and note the ducting to the radiator and GT40 transaxle.
Mechanically unchanged or updated- pure history here.
Yes it will be at HD in Jan and running hard, both car and driver a worthy addition to this Historic field.

Hi John. Barry came in to see us yesterday and is now a fully fledged member of HRC! He mentioned that rolling starts would be preferred, so we will do this at the Ferrari Festival - no problems there, as it makes good sense. regards Tony Roberts

[John McKechnie]

Ray- the pic of the MK 2 Zephyr is brilliant and captures the spirit of the class
Also more details on Barrys Monaro- the Lucas fuel injection came from Dannie Lupps car with the Chev motor.
After it blew, John Learmont secured it for Barry.

[Andrew Metford]

John, you're PM box is full. Can you empty it please so I can PM you. Thanks, Andrew.

[John McKechnie]

Andrew- just emptied now. They tell me there are 50 there, I found only 10. Please send again thanks.

[Andrew Metford]

Hi John. Barry came in to see us yesterday and is now a fully fledged member of HRC! He mentioned that rolling starts would be preferred, so we will do this at the Ferrari Festival - no problems there, as it makes good sense. regards Tony Roberts

Well done Tony, nice to see common sense prevail for a change :)

[RacerT]

Hi JAFA. I experienced standing starts in Australia at Sandown when we were racing the Talon F5000 there. When it all hooked up it was astoundingly quick. A proper test on a F5000 was done in an Aussie magazine in 1978 and it recorded a 0 - 100kmh in just 2.8 seconds. Although one race I was in, driving the McLaren Can-Am car with the BB 427 alloy motor and it ate the F5000's up, going from 10th to 3rd by the first corner, so goodness knows how quick a 0 - 100 time that was! All great until you break an input shaft or and axle!

[Rod Grimwood]

The old girl will be there. Just had a good catch up with John, and he has finished new engine after the Ruapuna blow and is keen to have a run at Festival but doesn't want anything serious but will run car. This is good news. I asked him if he had a chilly bin and he said yes so thats good also.

PS John said she is not fancy in brake department so give room.

We will all discuss this later any way.

[John McKechnie]

22818
I have just come back from spending 3 hours with Graeme Addis.
Here is how it looks, brilliantly engineered back then an stunning now.
No modern updates to spoil this time capsule.
It is repainted and hand sign written by the same guy.
He started it up for me- instantly -runs so smoothly.
Sounds fantastic to the ears. .
Thanks so much Graeme for inviting me into your workshop , going over the original build, the rebuild and now I can post this pic and say.....It lives, it breathes, he cant wait to get it back where it belongs-on the track.
There was no hand book to build this car everything is a tribute to Graeme logical thinking and sheer determination.
The rebuild shares the same with absolutely no shortcuts.
Grant Sprague- this is the car your Dad and Leo came second to Rod and Jim in the Benson and Hedges 1972.Will you come to see it run again?

[kiwi285]

Man that is a mean looking machine. I never saw this car in action in period but it looks amazing now. Roll on January Thank God for historic racing and the clubs who actively promote these classes of racing. When did anyone see the V8 Supercar that looked this horney or, I will bet, sound so great.

Is Graeme likely to have the car at HD for a shake down on 8 December ?

Mike

[John McKechnie]

Mike- I understand from Graeme that he still has windows to do, then time on the track for testing.
Prepare yourself for Jan.

[ERC]

It's looking very much as though this class is going to be a star attraction for many, but judging by the entry list so far, most drivers are still sitting on their hands/wallets. Is this a Kiwi thing, as just about every event I have been involved with in NZ has suffered from a dearth of entries right up to and including the closing date, then whammo, they come piling in, even if they have to pay a late entry penalty? By rights, this meeting should be well over-subscribed in all classes by now, so why isn't the entry list full for any one class? Hampton Downs can take a 46 car saloon grid and spectators feel cheated if they make the effort to come along only to find a load of empty grid spaces.

Looking through the list so far, I do wonder if maybe a rethink is required on the class structure and race formats, particularly in the areas of saloons, sports, GTs etc? Has anyone else any thoughts on that? It was certainly one factor in my decision not to run this year (2013).

Organisers need the entries in early. If this was a high profile overseas event, most classes would indeed be well over subscribed by now. With only about 80 cars on the list so far plus the F5000's, it seems a bit low. I wonder why?

[AMCO72]

Yes ERC. Looking through the VERY small entry list so far for the Festival, since when was a Porsche, any Porsche a SALOON car????????

[Andrew Metford]

Where can one see the entry list?

**EDIT** Was just talking to Mum and Dad, and they remember the Addis Charger, Dad said there's no back in the car it's all engine!! I've never seen the car run, too young, so I'll enjoy checking it out. It looks marvellous in the picture John, thanks for the updates.

6 weeks and 5 days to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fullnoise68]

Yes ERC. Looking through the VERY small entry list so far for the Festival, since when was a Porsche, any Porsche a SALOON car????????

Exactly Gerald, let alone a `muscle car'. Yes Brian Foley and Co raced them with Fahey, Coppins , etc years ago, and they run them in TCM in Aussie, but please.... If you aren`t allowed a Chev Corvair in HMC, can someone tell me why Porsches are allowed. The rule should be `Pre `78, front engine, period correct' With the amount of race meetings these deformed VWs can race at during the year its pretty pathetic to accommodate them in HMC.

[John McKechnie]

Andrew- there is no real back, as the rear wheels are where the race frame finishes, The frame behind supports the body.
When you are here you will be able to view it, allow yourself , as a fabricator- a lot of viewing time.

[ERC]

Where can one see the entry list?It was in the newsletter from either HRC or Hampton Downs.

Don't get too hung up about the Schedule K Porsche. I would imagine that at this stage, it is only a provisional entry list and from experience, up to 10% of entrants enter in the wrong class at just about every meeting! Organisers at an event like this (ie. non-series/championship) will presumably look at the entries and double check before printing the programme.

My own take, for what it is worth, is that some form of speed grouping some of the entries, might well be something worth considering. It works well enough at Manfeild. It is still chocolate fish racing.

[Kiwiboss]

I believe the entries are half down from last year but the ticket sales to the public are double for the same period!! The Festival organizers are doing there best to promote this as a more "true" historic meeting a bit like Goodwood, Monterey, etc but the problem here is in NZ is we've had 30 plus years of no direction of proper classic car racing, the Aussies beat us to this back in the 80's along with the rest of the world!! so what happens is why would you race your "proper" Historic/Classic Escort(with history) against one with a home made YB all aluminum 325HP modern engine with computer management system? our country is full of mofidite hotrods so one would wait and see what the grids are first!! and i don't now about you guys but this year has been a tuff one financially so for most its just sit on your hands until the last minute!!

And the lack of understanding on this forum of make, models, etc and how certain cars are categorized doesn't help as well, the early 70's Porsche's(google it) were a 2 door 4 seater car as sold by the manufacture and hence considered a saloon car, this is WHY they got raced with the saloons here and overseas back in the day(watch some old youtube footage) once they removed the rear seat they became a "Sports Car" i've just had this very discussion over 240Z Datsuns as they are a 2 door 2 seater(Sportscar) where as the 260's and up are 2 door 4 seater(Saloon car) can you guys see were this is going or am i the only one!!

This "Sports Sedan" class has had a major push by a few good people to get these cars out and there owners along for this event, and to continue it!! and yes it will be a premier attraction but the easiest way to really piss the owners off and never see then again is to allow super-fast "modern" modified mofidite home made NASCAR powered vehicles in that group that will lap Hampton considerably quicker just to satisfy a few who want to see a 40 plus car grid, that to me is NOT historic/Classic car racing, Now i know some will say you need numbers to pay the bills, well i say just let the organizers worry about that as its not our concern!!

Dale M :)

[Shano]

The Addis car is enough to draw a huge crowd all on its own. I can't wait to see it in action because I was overseas when the mighty beast raced. I'd always hoped it would make a re-appearance since the Classic Car magazine article reported that it was sitting in a shipping container untouched. Made a man drool, that did.

Dale, I hear what you are saying but it's tilting at windmills to think it's not going to happen - there will always be hotrods at the front of the field. It's simply not possible to have it any other way and the most money spent will generally equate to the best results. There are also cross-over cars in many fields - of the Porsche/240/260Z variety and surely it's better to have lenient organisers than hard nuts whose MO is to ban things that don't quite fit the mould.

As a committed spectator, I also enjoy the battles though the field and the classic racing at Hampton Downs certainly promotes this sort of action. The Escorts and Alphas may not be at the front, but spectators can still enjoy the way those guys throw the cars around, webers howling their delighful symphony. Last year I hugely enjoyed John McKechnie throwing his 'new' Falcon around, lifting front wheels - because I had followed the car from being a near-wreck on his rebuild thread. Great entertainment - and showing that there is more to enjoying life as a spectator than just watching who is at the front.

[Ricky]

I am biased as I race a 240Z but I agree with Shano, in 1970 in the SCCA C-Production Class the season long battle was between the Alfa 105, BMW 2002 and the Datsun 240z the Datsun won. Now some 40 years on these cars can’t run together at an Historic Festival because one is a sports car. Surely a grid can be made up of cars of a similar age and performance.

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes ERC. Looking through the VERY small entry list so far for the Festival, since when was a Porsche, any Porsche a SALOON car????????


As mentioned before, along time ago. And history (this is historic meeting) will show this in different countries (NZ included) and at differing years and class's.

There is one 'front porch' that some one wants to run just as a fill in until his (well known) Sports Sedan is ready, and to help with numbers in field. He knows it is not 'win a farm' racing and would/will behave as expected.
I think the powers to be will sort this out accordingly, and don't forget, the 'Historic Racing Club and it's people' have given a lifeline to the Sports Sedan/OSCA etc cars, and is/will be managed by them as they see fit and with a little help from us if needed.

This is not a world championship, but a great offer to give these cars a run and stretch their legs together, so lets not make it hard.

Cheers
Rod

[ERC]

Agree with Shano and Rod (and Ricky). Quite frankly, I don't care a stuff who wins. When not driving, I don't go to see winners. I go to a classic/historic meeting to see and hear the cars and come away with 1,000's of pics and memories of chatting to all sorts of people. It is what the festival is all about. I'll probably enjoy the track demonstrations as much or more than some of the race classes.

Dale, we all understand your stance and you are one of the main supporters of chocolate fish racing, but all those who have bought tickets in advance want to see cars being exercised. Much as we all admire Goodwood and everything that Lord March has achieved, and much as we'd like to think we can emulate it, we just can't. We are too small, too distant and have too few historically pure cars to ever make an oversubscribed historically pure festival that ticks all the boxes. It doesn't matter how dedicated and passionate the proponents are, sooner or later, reality has to kick in.

The reality is that this specific meeting in one where once a year, we get to see cars that we may never see for the rest of the year at Hampton Downs, with no points at stake and drivers should be able to survive with zero panel damage - but we all know that when that flag falls, some people just have to win and they my well have the machinery to do it.

If all cars are not historically pure, so what? We want to see cars, not empty tarseal. We are more than capable of ignoring those that don't light our own specific fire.

This may well be going over old ground, but the support for this historic saloon class in particular, surely harks back to the days when it was anything but a level playing field?

[Kiwiboss]

Sorry Shano you are wrong, the Festival is about old historic cars like the Addis charger and others within period and/or built to period rules not “Hotrods” winning the races, if you think he(Addis) will continue to race if his grid is filled with “Hotrods” and especially ones that are faster because they have modern components fitted I think your dreaming, tilted windmills or not it’s about drawing a line in the sand for these historic events or otherwise it’s not a historic event, one may as well been at Puke today. Some cars do cross over but if the organisers allow ones that shouldn’t then all you do is get rid of the proper cars, if the manufacture categorizes their cars as either a “saloon” or a “Sportcar” then that’s the grouping they should be in. John Mckechnie put in a fantastic effort to make the last festival and for you as a spectator it’s fantastic for him to know that his effort is appreciated but I’d bet John would also soon disappear if he was also in a field of non-regulated “Hotrods”, the entertainment is as much for the car owner/driver as it is for you the spectator!!


You’re not bias Ricky, its understand you need because you see we never ran a SCCA C-Production class here in NZ, Australia, GB or Europe so for the purpose the festival based on the manufactures spec for your car, is it’s a “Sportcar” and as there is separate sports car and saloon car race groups you must go into the appropriate class, now this is not stopping you from starting a SCCA C-Production class for the festival(and other meets), you’rd have to run it by Jim, Tony, Chris etc and that way you would attract the type of vehicles that your 240Z ran against in period, now there’s a thought? but in the meantime how about just joining in for the fun of it.

Ray, not sure if you do understand me? you say you go to Classic/Historic meetings to see the cars, what sort of cars? Hotrods like Shano mentions? period correct cars? or in between? Im sure the punters buying tickets go to this event to see old proper classic and historic cars otherwise why go, one could have been at Puke today otherwise!! I also don’t care who wins but I do care about vehicles been prepped appropriately for the grouping they race in at events like the festival, and this is what I like about your ERC racing class as you just handicapped the grid in accordance to performance rather than worry about any sort of historic or classic rules and as this country is full of over modified modernised hotrods you have huge numbers so it works, please carry on!! but to me the festival is not this and or is classic racing, to me people want to see a period Escort racing with other period cars without their alloy YB engines and computer management system but im known to be wrong? When I mention Goodwood or Monterey I use then as an example because I too know we will never have anything like this with our small population and country but surely for 2 weeks a year we can all just dream a little please? So the tarseal maybe showing this year but lets just have this event continue as it should be, some years are just better than others and that’s how it is sometimes? Not much tarseal showing at Puke today either!! Hmmmmm

OK, hit me with it!!

Dale M

[Horizon]

Even though I'm across the other side of the pacific, I think Dale is correct. There are lots of events to run the 'hotrods", so keep the Hampton Downs event a "signature event" for the period correct cars/Drivers.

[John McKechnie]

The name of this class includes the word Invited , reflect on this word.
I am sure that the cars invited will be indicative of of this renamed class in the HRC spirit.
We do know that Shano is drooling at the experience of the Addis Charger,
And Andrew-JAFA- is in a similar state of excitement with the Algie Monaro.
These are just 2 Historically pure cars and the reality is kicking in that these cars will run with their original creators and drivers .
I would love to have my Team Cambridge Monaro there with its creator Spencer Black driving making up another Historically pure combination.
Dale has pointed out that we need catching up time.
These cars are out there and the owners know that we ,the adoring dedicated fans ,are waiting for them

[ERC]

Yes John. Invited is in fact what the whole event is about, not just this class.

Dale, you have a passion for a certain sector of the sport and have got off your backside, along with Steve and Tony to make it happen. With that hat on, no you are not wrong and I wouldn't try and shoot you down.

But neither you nor I can speak for those spectators who make a real effort to support the Festival. It is pretty well a unique event in NZ and I accept Horizon's comment that we can see the "hotrods" at any meeting. However, I personally do not accept that there is any more than a handful of cars in that category, certainly within our own series. Fingers are always pointed at two or three cars - about 3% then of all our cars racing. Big deal.

Can anyone convince me that all the F5000's are 100% pure?

I ask this simple question: "Have the Festivals to date made money?"

The Festival committee run the festival as they think fit and can make whatever rules they like. As far as I am concerned, it is getting together with enthusiasts from several areas of the classic/historic side of the sport and I am keen to see cars of all types and genres but what I am never keen on seeing, is either empty tarseal or a load of identical cars. The BMW E30 series is great for the drivers, but leaves me cold as a spectator and photographer. If the fact that they are all running to a tight set of rules is your idea of heaven, so be it, but it isn't mine. The fact that they may or may not have a CoD is also irrelevant.

A field of identical Ford Mustangs would only be marginally better and that is mainly because they sound better and may be a bit more loose on the hairpins. (Sorry Dale...) Do you get my drift?

The genuine interest in this historic saloon class is because those who built those cars in period, stamped their own individuality on the cars they built, within what I imagine to be a relatively loose set of regulations. The modern curse (from F1 down) is that everyone has to conform to an ever tighter set of regs and the designer's stamp is therefore lost. (Read Tony Southgate's comments.) It used to be OK to put a Corvette engine in a Ford Zephyr, put if you decide to put a period engine in a period saloon car now, you are met with a wall of either antagonism, disinterest or abject horror on one side "because it may not have been done in period" and unbridled enthusiasm on the other.

It may offend the purists if a few older cars are not now 100% period correct, but particularly in saloon car racing over the decades, they have got progressively more and more bland.

So to answer your question Dale, I go to the Festival and expect to see a huge variety of cars and come away with pictures that show that diversity, because there can be only one winner on the track and that may often be just because he has the largest engine or chequebook. I take no note of who wins as it means very little in the overall scheme of things.

I don't go to the Super Tourers or NZ V8s though I did go to the Friday at Hampton Downs. I wasn't impressed and even the sports cars all look similar these days - and I have no idea what they even are anymore.

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes ERC. Looking through the VERY small entry list so far for the Festival, since when was a Porsche, any Porsche a SALOON car????????

As the bedtime story goes, Once upon a time in Australia and also in NZ,

[Rod Grimwood]

Dale know your point and you are right, but for now the purist original 'as she was in old days' boys and cars will run with the others until numbers are there. Also I believe the 'older' amongst us know the genuine Shell Sport or similar car to the carbon/re-engined new hybrid. They all have a place and until numbers request, will have to play together. Don't forget the one which has history and is there for a run most of the drivers don't eat chocolate anyway, it spoils the taste of the beer.

[Kiwiboss]

Yes John. Invited is in fact what the whole event is about, not just this class.

Dale, you have a passion for a certain sector of the sport and have got off your backside, along with Steve and Tony to make it happen. With that hat on, no you are not wrong and I wouldn't try and shoot you down.

But neither you nor I can speak for those spectators who make a real effort to support the Festival. It is pretty well a unique event in NZ and I accept Horizon's comment that we can see the "hotrods" at any meeting. However, I personally do not accept that there is any more than a handful of cars in that category, certainly within our own series. Fingers are always pointed at two or three cars - about 3% then of all our cars racing. Big deal.

Can anyone convince me that all the F5000's are 100% pure?

I ask this simple question: "Have the Festivals to date made money?"

The Festival committee run the festival as they think fit and can make whatever rules they like. As far as I am concerned, it is getting together with enthusiasts from several areas of the classic/historic side of the sport and I am keen to see cars of all types and genres but what I am never keen on seeing, is either empty tarseal or a load of identical cars. The BMW E30 series is great for the drivers, but leaves me cold as a spectator and photographer. If the fact that they are all running to a tight set of rules is your idea of heaven, so be it, but it isn't mine. The fact that they may or may not have a CoD is also irrelevant.

A field of identical Ford Mustangs would only be marginally better and that is mainly because they sound better and may be a bit more loose on the hairpins. (Sorry Dale...) Do you get my drift?

The genuine interest in this historic saloon class is because those who built those cars in period, stamped their own individuality on the cars they built, within what I imagine to be a relatively loose set of regulations. The modern curse (from F1 down) is that everyone has to conform to an ever tighter set of regs and the designer's stamp is therefore lost. (Read Tony Southgate's comments.) It used to be OK to put a Corvette engine in a Ford Zephyr, put if you decide to put a period engine in a period saloon car now, you are met with a wall of either antagonism, disinterest or abject horror on one side "because it may not have been done in period" and unbridled enthusiasm on the other.

It may offend the purists if a few older cars are not now 100% period correct, but particularly in saloon car racing over the decades, they have got progressively more and more bland.

So to answer your question Dale, I go to the Festival and expect to see a huge variety of cars and come away with pictures that show that diversity, because there can be only one winner on the track and that may often be just because he has the largest engine or chequebook. I take no note of who wins as it means very little in the overall scheme of things.

I don't go to the Super Tourers or NZ V8s though I did go to the Friday at Hampton Downs. I wasn't impressed and even the sports cars all look similar these days - and I have no idea what they even are anymore.

Ray, although some groups are invited this has to be done because of the problem with all the "silhouette modified hotrods" in this country, it shouldn't be this way but is so because for 30 years there's been no decent categorization and/or organization of proper historic and classic saloon class's in NZ, its always been "build what you like" and they'll let me run anyway mentality!! thats why HMC is NOT an invite class and is open to all persons but all we ask is that your vehicle be to the set out rules and requirements and your in, pretty damn easy really!! You also only have to look to Australia with their booming historic group Na, Nc, Nb saloon class's to understand that if we'd done the same all those years ago we wouldn't have these issues, they have proven that by having a standardized across the board formula based on period correctness works and now have more period built saloons that ever before and are pretty much over subscribed so i don't buy into your theory of let all and sundry run. Australian Muscle Car had a great article about this group a few issues back and its worth the read.

Yes i do have a passion for a certain sector of the sport but basically my passion is "historic saloon racing" that's as close to period correct as possible, but what DO YOU call close Ray? because i can take it that you find MK1 Escorts with YB midget car engines, computer electronics, carbon fibre, big wheels, etc OK but then on the other hand you mention F5000 may not be so 100% pure in your eyes!! not with you on this one mate because that seems like a pretty big swing in thinking to me!! they(F5000) still have the correct engines and size(haven't seen one with a NASCAR engine yet) no 17/18" wheels, no Holinger 6 speeds, still the same suspensions, well most will get the idea but what do you mean because some of the saloons i see these days make even a modified F5000 look pure if you ask me????

When you mention Zephyrs with V8 corvette engines you are talking about another era of saloon racing that mostly was in this country pre 67, its was the All-Comers era when anything went before MSNZ adopted FIA group 2 then group 5 saloon rules to stop this as even back in 1967 they realized this class was out-A-hand, once again if anyone wants to start this era of racing as a historic class then go for it otherwise there's no-where to race, sometimes you just can't cater for every car or class that has come and gone(talking before 1978 here) but if you did start this group i presume you would find it acceptable to power a MK2 Zephyr with a modern NASCAR engine? for me, i think not!!

As for the Festival making money or not its none of our business, off-course we'd soon know if they weren't wouldn't we! and as im not on the organizing committee or have any link to it i have no idea, im only trying to do my bit for "historic saloon car" racing and help out at the same time, all at my expense, makes me a mug doesn't it!! and also Ray a field of historic Mustangs(or camaros, Falcons, Monaro's and other V8's) period correct, noisy and slipping and sliding(and no not on 17" slicks) all getting around the track in a hurry would excite most people i know at any classic/historic meeting and even if only a few cars and thats why getting these old Sports Sedans out is important as only 3 or 4 will attract many spectators, oh the noise and smell :)

And guess what? put 30 cars on the track and there can only ever be ONE winner!! the idea in H&C racing is to share it around and that is our intention in HMC as its more about putting on the show, most of these cars have already made all the history they're ever going to make so getting that one last final win won't make one ounce of difference !!

Good night all. Dale M

[AMCO72]

Rod, like all bedtime stories its fantasy land!!!! I'm not sure what you are telling me here with this picture. It shows two cars which are definitely not saloon cars, one of which is a Porsche. I don't think even Jim Short would call his Porsche a Saloon car. In fact I think he would be affronted to hear it described as such.

Incidentally, I wonder why whoever originally chose the name, called them Sports Sedans and not Sports Saloons. Maybe they already knew where the bulk of the cars would come from...........sedan being typically American, and saloon the English term for a vehicle with a fixed roof and at least four USEABLE seats. All the rest are either GT's or sports cars.

And Dale, I am so glad that you are going to share the 'winning' around at the festival. The Guys at the back might like a shot at the front, even though ERC says he doesn't care who is 'winning'. Maybe a good chance to have some handicap racing.

[Rod Grimwood]

Monzas and Porsches were raced in sports sedans years back, that's the point and are not a new thing now.

Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Corvairs, also American and with fixed rear seats ran as well, as you say hence the reference to 'Sedans' with the English saloons. Not many English saloons came with a V8 but converted nicely.

[Ellis]

As the bedtime story goes, Once upon a time in Australia and also in NZ,

Also "Once upon a time in Tasmania"....was a good bedtime story Rod.... a bit noisy but good
Pic is
Symmons Plains Tasmania over the Hump into what was pit corner

[Steve Holmes]

22818
I have just come back from spending 3 hours with Graeme Addis.
Here is how it looks, brilliantly engineered back then an stunning now.
No modern updates to spoil this time capsule.
It is repainted and hand sign written by the same guy.
He started it up for me- instantly -runs so smoothly.
Sounds fantastic to the ears. .
Thanks so much Graeme for inviting me into your workshop , going over the original build, the rebuild and now I can post this pic and say.....It lives, it breathes, he cant wait to get it back where it belongs-on the track.
There was no hand book to build this car everything is a tribute to Graeme logical thinking and sheer determination.
The rebuild shares the same with absolutely no shortcuts.
Grant Sprague- this is the car your Dad and Leo came second to Rod and Jim in the Benson and Hedges 1972.Will you come to see it run again?

Wow, sure is cool to see this car again. I remember it as a kid, and was fascinated by it as Graeme developed it through to its final guise, where it was essentially a Can-Am car with a Charger body draped over the top. The open rear end was for the ground-effects, and the whirring of the trans-axle spinning around in full view was mesmerising. Just a mad car built during a period where creative thinking was king. Looking back, most Sports Sedan fields were usually pretty thin on the ground. Sometimes the fields wouldn't even reach double digits. But the cars themselves were so bold, loud, unpredictable, lively, aggressive, eccentric, that you soon forgot how small the grid was.

[Howard Wood]

Even though I'm across the other side of the pacific, I think Dale is correct. There are lots of events to run the 'hotrods", so keep the Hampton Downs event a "signature event" for the period correct cars/Drivers.

Thank you Horizon.

Surely this one meeting is prestigious and important enough to attract and allow only period correct cars. A bit chicken and egg, I know but if we don't make the effort we are doomed to have "Historic" grids full of YB Escorts and nobody with any wiff of a competitive streak will contemplate building a period correct car.

On the other hand, if owners of period correct cars don't support this one event, we will only have ourselves to blame if the event promotors allow Hot Rods back next time.

[Rod Grimwood]

Thank you Horizon.

Surely this one meeting is prestigious and important enough to attract and allow only period correct cars. A bit chicken and egg, I know but if we don't make the effort we are doomed to have "Historic" grids full of YB Escorts and nobody with any wiff of a competitive streak will contemplate building a period correct car.

On the other hand, if owners of period correct cars don't support this one event, we will only have ourselves to blame if the event promotors allow Hot Rods back next time.


That's it in a nutshell Howard, but it will take a couple of meetings for the older cars to reappear. There are meetings that the 'new' cars can run at and in reality, if you are going to go to the expense and time of building one of these with all the latest gear, you are competitive and need to run with similar people and cars at similar competitive meetings.

[ERC]

Surely, the key factor is period bodyshell, engine, gearbox, wheel sizes, bodyshell materials etc?

Fitting a modern rev limiter to save over revving? Why not? Fitting electronic ignition for reliability? Why not? Reliability keeps the cars on the track and visible for all to see. A high attrition rate does no-one any favours and is likely to see a car or cars consigned to the back of the garage, maybe for ever.

People generally fit more modern ancillaries for reliability, but they don't really detract from the car. No excuse whatever for Kevlar bonnets, airboxes, bonnets, or sequential gearboxes, or non period wheels though.

Ultimately, the other competitors will decide what is allowable, be that as a committee or a poll of drivers. If the class/series rules mean that a class is not invited to a specific event, so be it. I have no problem with that as it has been happening for the last few years anyway. If any class is no longer invited to any events then they will presumably change their rules or philosophy, but conversely, if classes are always losing money by only fronting up with half a dozen cars, then they are not exactly going to be welcomed either.

You have to give any class time to establish itself and once it is fully established, invitations will pour in. When oversubscribed, rules can be tightened if required.

The overall critical factor is a respect for the other cars on the track and an acceptance that it is about participation.

[nzeder]

I was going to write a long post but I think Ray's post above sums it up nicely.

Period body work, drivetrain, rims sizing and materials (where available as per the recent and pleased to see note in the currnet rules - quoted below)


Note: An application can be made to the Historic & Classic Commission via it’s Chairperson, when the applicant deems that are particular part of interior or exterior trim is no longer available, or viable to be used in competition. The Commission will review the application and accompanying proof of reason and will determine if derogation is granted. This will then be noted in the vehicle’s COD. Note that the vehicle must have a COD (Certificate of Description).

T&C as they are today is simple when it comes to body work (and it lays it out plan and simple) so not sure how we have so many "hotrods" when it comes to bodywork.

The vehicle shall be smartly maintained and have all exterior trim in place. It must retain bumpers if originally fitted. All panels, bumpers, mouldings, spoilers etc. must be made of the original materials as per the STANDARD series Production vehicle. eg; steel panels must be retained if originally fitted. Period modifications are permissible.
(1) Only rear wings (aerofoil) which were available for the car in period may be fitted. These must be
made of materials from that period. ie; no Kevlar.
(2) Any/all modifications must be in period (refer definitions)
The key words in there for me are "STANDARD series production vehicle". So a Mk1 Escort with bubble flares is not "STANDARD series production vehicle" I know that statement might up set a few but it is my understanding that Ford never sold a bubble flared car to the general public in enough numbers to satisfy the FIA for Group 1 homologation (which was standard series production for Saloons) but they were allowed to get Group 3 for these as a modified saloon based on standard series production vehicle. The FIA group 3 papers also show Escort bubbles flares were "Steel" so given replcias can be had in "Steel" then under the material above then they should be "Steel" or am I completely wrong. MSNZ Schedule K allows for these period body mods but T&C does not if I read the rule correctly.

[John McKechnie]

This thread is about Sports Sedans- bumpers?
Think you have wrong thread for this.

[nzeder]

This thread is about Sports Sedans- bumpers?
Think you have wrong thread for this.Not really - T&C = Bumper in the rules. Depends on event in question if Schedule K then as ran in period for a given/chosen period of the car in question.

If the cars or class is running under T&C then T&C rules apply and that is bumpers/full exterior trim - that is what is states in the rules you can't argue that can you? If so = "hotrod" and that is point - other have mentioned "hotrods" and under T&C today without bumpers = "hotrod" in the loose term or illegal if you like.

[ERC]

I think that what nzeder is alluding to is that this class of historic race saloons may not be adequately covered by the existing NZ regulations as to what is deemed a classic/historic race saloon car.

Which is why, any invitation race/series running to its own regulations is the way to go, much as that may upset some! I am more than happy to leave it entirely to John and Rod as to what they deem acceptable, as at this stage, this is a one off invitation to a race meeting and the intention is to get some much loved cars out on track.

AFTER the festival, let's just see what the general feeling is, as George has already discovered, it is far from easy getting an acceptable structure together then getting the support for it, translated to cars on a starting grid.

[nzeder]

Thanks Ray - that explains my point better - currently under the rules laid out by MSNZ don't allow someone like me who was not around or watching these cars run back in the day (but I must admit I watch old footage of these cars ;)) see how these cars fit under the current Appendix VI rules - Schedule K looks correct to me but then the rules would not allow for them to run if they ran things like dual MC setup (just one example in the rules there are others)

It can get confusing really quickly espeically if you don't know what rules the cars in question ran back in the day - so you are relying on the current set of rules which might not fit the cars as they ran...now I have my brain going around and around it hurts....stop thinking...time for a red wine and some dinner I think.

[John McKechnie]

Why do you want to get bogged down with all these rules ?
Just come out, watch, and enjoy the cars.

[nigel watts]

Oh boy am I glad I'm just a spectator - all this talk about rules and regulations gives me a headache!!

[CUSTAXIE50]

Cant we just get on and race these cars and put all this bull shit and pc to one side, look here i said before when the Custaxie 2 had its first run at manfeild the kids of today just could not believe that something like that was raced in nz 47 years ago,being it on thats the racing they all want to see or has it become to hard to understand that today.

[RogerH]

Cant we just get on and race these cars and put all this bull shit and pc to one side, look here i said before when the Custaxie 2 had its first run at manfeild the kids of today just could not believe that something like that was raced in nz 47 years ago,being it on thats the racing they all want to see or has it become to hard to understand that today.

This is part of the problem - Custaxie 2 does not represent to those kids something that was raced 47 years ago. As we have discussed at length before, at best it is a modern tribute to something that was raced 47 years ago. There are enough of the real old cars around to give the kids the "real" story. Events like the Festival and the Roycroft meeting are trying to provide the venue for cars that really represent past periods.

It seems from spectator numbers from past Festival events and pre sales to the current event, that there is a demand for coming and seeing the more "pure" historic and classic cars.

The "hot rods" have opportunities at other meetings but I would guess that spectator numbers at those events would be a fraction of the Festival - maybe a message here?

[CUSTAXIE50]

This is part of the problem - Custaxie 2 does not represent to those kids something that was raced 47 years ago. As we have discussed at length before, at best it is a modern tribute to something that was raced 47 years ago. There are enough of the real old cars around to give the kids the "real" story. Events like the Festival and the Roycroft meeting are trying to provide the venue for cars that really represent past periods.

It seems from spectator numbers from past Festival events and pre sales to the current event, that there is a demand for coming and seeing the more "pure" historic and classic cars.

The "hot rods" have opportunities at other meetings but I would guess that spectator numbers at those events would be a fraction of the Festival - maybe a message here? well if thats the case the capri and the rx7 we see up here can not race because they are out of period today,what would someone have to do to make you happy about a car like the custaxie and others fit into what you call the real old cars and give the real story.

[Frosty5]

well if thats the case the capri and the rx7 we see up here can not race because they are out of period today,what would someone have to do to make you happy about a car like the custaxie and others fit into what you call the real old cars and give the real story.

ALLCOMERS?????????????

[Rod Grimwood]

As said before, this is not a championship/series, it is a chance to run the cars and give the spectators alook at them. Just leave the politics to a later date and it will be dealt with then if needed, first off lets have some cars on the grid.
Don't try and cut this off at the knees before it gets going, I can debate and will when the time is right or if it is too hard basket, I have a nice new fishing rod. I also have another car to spend my time on.

NZDER; I have one of the older Escorts that did alot of racing years back, glass flares, boot, bonnet, bumpers (as Shell Sport) and I will not be changing it.
The electrical thing is common sense if it is going to make it more reliable. agree
But some of the engines were not available back then as they are now. agree
Wheels should be standard size etc. agree

Custaxie; The Capri, and RX7 ran in Sports Sedans years ago so no problem at moment. And the Custaxie is welcome (who cares about this is not as it was, and it did not have that) remember this about the cars not ego's and championships

[Shoreboy57]

[QUOTE=Rod Grimwood;36047]As said before, this is not a championship/series, it is a chance to run the cars and give the spectators alook at them. Just leave the politics to a later date and it will be dealt with then if needed, first off lets have some cars on the grid.

Couldn't agree more - cars on the grid, driven in the right manner. No '61 sharknose Ferraris survive. Yet a couple of replicas have been built. Would we not welcome them? Goodwood did.

[ERC]

[QUOTE=Rod Grimwood;36047]Couldn't agree more - cars on the grid, driven in the right manner. No '61 sharknose Ferraris survive. Yet a couple of replicas have been built. Would we not welcome them? Goodwood did.
Plus the Lancia D50's. I happily took pics of them at Goodwood and knew what they were, but they still look good, sound good and give us a taste of what we missed. There is no intention to deceive.

I personally don't care if the Custaxie isn't a 100% true copy as I never saw it in period. As long as it has a period engine and no-one has fitted a Nissan Turbo engine to it. They wouldn't allow that to race at the festival now would they... (Waits for response.)

All comers - but with period parts? No problem. Collect a pile of bits and build your period saloon car special. Brilliant. Just don't expect the historians to approve if "it wasn't done in period", nor the H & C commission. And therein lies the real problem. Different philosophies - and neither are wrong.

Agree with you Rod.

[nzeder]

I will be there watching, that is a given. I enjoyed the watching of classic racing and these festivals.

And the rules thing - I get it but for someone who was not watching racing when these cars ran, then you think that is just outstanding how could you build a replica and race today - and from the rules as they are it is impossible to replicate a car from this era as T&C and Schedule K don't cover them. Schedule CR might but again to me that looks like open wheeler focused. So I guess this is why some have issues with Custaxi 2.


NZDER; I have one of the older Escorts that did alot of racing years back, glass flares, boot, bonnet, bumpers (as Shell Sport) and I will not be changing it. That is great it would be good to see Shell Sport cars again - those I did see on TV and at the track when younger - and for "the car" I would not change it either, just the rules make it hard to replicate one as if there is no FIA documentation (or COD as we have today) for the car as built and ran in period then you have no evidence to build another the same = you have to use other evidence ie FIA documentation which states "steel bubble flares"

So from all this I get replicas of cars that once were can't be built = it has to the real car or nothing else - which is sad it would be good to a mix of makes/models as they once were.

"as it was, as it should be"

[John McKechnie]

nzeder-
So from all this I get replicas of cars that once were can't be built = it has to the real car or nothing else - which is sad it would be good to a mix of makes/models as they once were.

Keep up with the entry list for the answer to this.

[AMCO72]

Totally agree with Rod, ERC, etc. Talking of 'Hotrods', at the Southern Festival of Speed a couple of years ago, I competed against a Mk1 Escort that reputedly had a 300 hp engine fitted. It was a beautifully built car and a credit to the owner, but it was having 'issues' getting a COD, not sure why!!!!! I am sure during the racing that the driver did not utilize all of the reputed hp, as he raced round quite happily with rest of us, whereas I am also sure that he could have blown us all into the weeds, but chose not to.
Perhaps other 'hotrod' drivers wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to show their pace, but this Guy was doing the right thing and it was a pleasure to race with.
While I would normally be against stuffing 300 hp engines in cars that originally raced with half that amount, on this occasion it worked for everyone because the Guy exercised a bit of common sense.

And, yes I know that Custaxie II is not the original, but it is near enough to show folk what it was like in the old days. I for one would welcome its appearance at the Festival. We don't have the luxury of over subscribed grids YET, but it may come, then we can get picky.

[touringcarfan]

Is there a time frame for typing a message? I have tried twice and not been allowed to proceed.
Anthony

[Steve Holmes]

Is there a time frame for typing a message? I have tried twice and not been allowed to proceed.
Anthony

No, usually not, and it should auto-save as you're typing, unless you're reeeeeaaaalllllyyyy slow to type a post. Might just be that you've got your log in settings done such a way you're timing out of your log in? If for whatever reason I'm not logged in, when I go to log in I tick the box that asks if I want to stay logged in.

[nigel watts]

Dare I say it, but I was a spectator back in the 60's and I, as a spectator, couldn't tell you whether the Custaxie2 was the original or a replica and to be honest I don't really care either way. I just want to see interesting cars on the track be it original or replica.
As you've no doubt gathered I'm not a purist, so if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck then as far as I'm concerned it is a duck. Would I prefer a grid of 20 or so legitimate cars or 40+ cars that all look period correct and provide some excitement for the paying punters - you need to ask? Oh well, there's always the Central Muscle Cars and Pre 65's to fall back on.

[Malcolm McLeod]

John, I can't wait to see this car at HD - and I don't know where I'm gonna find the money from, but I'd like to contribute $100 to the cause ON CONDITION that us flaggies get a thank you wave at the finish of each race! PM me the details, or email me MrMalcolmMcLeod@gmail.com

Here is Barry Algies Monaro that i photoed yesterday.This car is exactly as it last ran. Yes , the front is off being glassed.
This would be one of the first Sports Sedans as he was working on it in 1975.
Barry needs financial assistance as he is getting on in years and no regular income.
Any help here can be seen as sponsorship or recognition by having your name written on this highly visible billboard.
My name and business is going on, who else wants to be part of this?
Will be posting more pics today.
Barry left my place just now to place his entry, join HRC and pay more off the radiator bill.
Gordon Burr is entered so both the Algie creations will be there
With these cars, it is preferable to have a rolling start so that will be looked in to.
Technically-
Motor completely set back, new firewall,spoiler width of the car, same height as the roof.
Small block 400, 327 crank, with Lucas fuel injection .
Simple interior and note the ducting to the radiator and GT40 transaxle.
Mechanically unchanged or updated- pure history here.
Yes it will be at HD in Jan and running hard, both car and driver a worthy addition to this Historic field.

[Rod Grimwood]

Ok sorry if I offend anyone but that's enough.

If you can not be positive on the 'Festival" thread, then don't push any buttons, and more so if you are not involved keep it to yourself. People are starting to get a little pissed with the negative bits, and sorry but it is the same as the negative bits when George tried.
Put up or shut up as we are trying, and do not need negative attitudes right now.

PS I have had a competitor wonder 'Is this worth while' after reading the thread, so back off and blow your little trumpets elsewhere.
If you stuff this be prepared for some Vaseline, because I will not have negative people (a minority) stuff it for the real people.

As I have said, 'If you are involved with a car' contact me or John McKechnie, if not go to the other thread about 'hot rods' and sort it there. This is for the Festival and 'Invited guest's' to put it bluntly, no more crap or I will start.

Nigel and co. please keep your support up.

Regards
Rod Grimwood

PS please don't piss me off

[John McKechnie]

John, I can't wait to see this car at HD - and I don't know where I'm gonna find the money from, but I'd like to contribute $100 to the cause ON CONDITION that us flaggies get a thank you wave at the finish of each race! PM me the details, or email me MrMalcolmMcLeod@gmail.com

Malcolm, you guys do a great job and I know that at drivers briefing we are always reminded to remember to wave to the flaggies at the end of a race..I know our guys are so keen to be out there they definitely wont forget you.

[John McKechnie]

This thread set out to inform you all of the direction of historic Sports sedans as there has been huge interest in them.
The class for Hampton Downs mid Jan is –Pre 85 Invited Allcomers and Historic Sports Sedans.
Invited are Historic Sports Sedans, Allcomers, Period replicas of Allcomers where they don’t exist anymore and Oscas.

There are no rules for this class, everyone here is invited.

We welcome these cars and driver with open arms in the spirit of Historic Racing which allows this to happen.
You can all come along to watch and enjoy, and this class can grow with your positive support.
I am not telling the world who is coming, all will be revealed in the program and on the day.
As the coordinator for the class, I am conscious that this class is unknown and people want to discuss it.
However this is an information thread and not a discussion forum on rules, regulations, who you think should be on the grid and who not.
Please go to another thread or forum for that purpose , and don’t spoil the pleasure of those who really want to see this special event happen.

The drivers, crew , sponsors all see this as a fantastic opportunity to entertain us, their loyal adoring fans and I am not prepared to see all their hard work damaged by negative , unsuitable and uncomplimentary posts..

Those that ignore this polite message will be reminded by all of us out here.
If anyone has an appropriate car which they feel should be on the grid, please pm me or contact Jim Barclay.
Regards
John

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, well said John, I completely agree. This is such a great concept, and the talk of car numbers to me just don't matter. I'm personally not interested in seeing a large grid, I want to see quality over quantity, as each of these historic cars is larger than life, and tells its own story. Even if this was a high speed demonstration, I'd be happy, as I just want to see these amazing machines back out and circulating once more. Each car is individual and unique, and very special in its own way, as it is the result of its builders vivid imagination, designed and constructed in a very colourful era which rewarded creative thinking.

[Steve Holmes]

Here it is, the car chase scene from the old 1980s Shaker Run movie, featuring the Capri Sports Sedan of Brian Friend (former Brent Bullivant, Graham Baker, Bob Cullinane) and now owned by Graham Barnes. A pretty good chase scene by all accounts, through the streets of Wellington city and up the Rimutaka Hill:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jCIWNXHG8c

22843

[Steve Holmes]

And a bit more inspiration, late 1980s Sports Sedan race from Pukekohe.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAEoBZjOa7Y

[Steve Holmes]

And Race 2, from the same event, now with the two Corvettes running. Note the Barry Algie Monaro towards the rear of the field also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytU3nWcMq8o

[Rod Grimwood]

Here it is, the car chase scene from the old 1980s Shaker Run movie, featuring the Capri Sports Sedan of Brian Friend (former Brent Bullivant, Graham Baker, Bob Cullinane) and now owned by Graham Barnes. A pretty good chase scene by all accounts, through the streets of Wellington city and up the Rimutaka Hill:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jCIWNXHG8c

22843



Lance Johnson (of speedway Fame) actually drove the Capri for the scene, and Peter Bell did a lot of the stunt work. I actually was Pete's safety man for a lot of different stunts and movies back in the old days (1976-90) and also did a bit of driving back then.

[Steve Holmes]

That is very cool Rod! I have to say, it was a very well executed chase scene. Will the Capri be at the Festival?

[Spgeti]

I just love the Capri, Frenzia, RX7/8 and the Custaxi II at Manfeild recently. First time I have seen the Custaxi II run and having never seen the original to me it made all the right noises and performed well. Go for it guys' and good luck and heres hoping for a good turn out. Cheers, Bruce

[CUSTAXIE50]

This thread set out to inform you all of the direction of historic Sports sedans as there has been huge interest in them.
The class for Hampton Downs mid Jan is –Pre 85 Invited Allcomers and Historic Sports Sedans.
Invited are Historic Sports Sedans, Allcomers, Period replicas of Allcomers where they don’t exist anymore and Oscas.

There are no rules for this class, everyone here is invited.

We welcome these cars and driver with open arms in the spirit of Historic Racing which allows this to happen.
You can all come along to watch and enjoy, and this class can grow with your positive support.
I am not telling the world who is coming, all will be revealed in the program and on the day.
As the coordinator for the class, I am conscious that this class is unknown and people want to discuss it.
However this is an information thread and not a discussion forum on rules, regulations, who you think should be on the grid and who not.
Please go to another thread or forum for that purpose , and don’t spoil the pleasure of those who really want to see this special event happen.

The drivers, crew , sponsors all see this as a fantastic opportunity to entertain us, their loyal adoring fans and I am not prepared to see all their hard work damaged by negative , unsuitable and uncomplimentary posts..

Those that ignore this polite message will be reminded by all of us out here.
If anyone has an appropriate car which they feel should be on the grid, please pm me or contact Jim Barclay.
Regards
John How easy was that to do i understand what you are saying,i think when someone puts the words PERIOD-CORRECT up ,the ones who dont come from the state house side of the railway tracks get on here ,to take away the fun the drivers would get putting their cars out there, and the fun seeing them out there by those who wish to go along to this meeting. Get them all out there black-white-pink who gives a shit-----now what could me and my boy bring to this party.

[Rod Grimwood]

That is very cool Rod! I have to say, it was a very well executed chase scene. Will the Capri be at the Festival?


Hopefully Steve, I have to catch up with Mr Barnes, he's a nice guy. He had an engine problem at Manfield but hopefully has it sorted.

[Rod Grimwood]

Custaxie, don't know if you have noticed in some of my previous post's, but a CHILLY BIN is a start.

Catch ya

[TonyG]

As someone who grew up watching, idolizing and dreaming about these cars and their drivers, I can not believe that people would not be happy to see the cars of yesteryear.
As many of you have seen, I have posted what photos I have of these beasts and I for one would be happy to attend a race meeting where I could drool over them again whether real or replica, I would rather see these than fields of BMW's, Jappa's, assd roadgoing sportscars etc. NO disrespect to any of those classes, but that is just my choice. They just don't do it for me personally.
Some of the old cars are well gone now and I just don't understand why a Replica could not be built to visually look like the original as per Custaxie and run. Surely #1 Safety and #2 Reliability are the 2 key factors. EG Bad example but the Coppins Zephyr Corvette. Doesn't have to have a race engine in it just something reliable and small block Chev with more modern roadcar suspension and brakes for safety/reliability.
Yes the red mist will descend etc etc etc but is that not why you have stewards, other drivers etc to tell them to pull the reins in if they get a bit carried away as they will still get a Chocalate fish no matter where they are on the track at the end of their run.
I would love to be able to fly home and see the likes of the Custaxie, Merc Sports sedan, Addis Charger, Moffat Capri, and even Clark Proctors Nissan? Escort but unfortunately that can not happen so I will rely on Nigel etc for their wonderful photos.
Bring them on I say.
Rod - Any chance you will dig your beast out from under the rubble, give it a wash and have it on display as well? I am sure there are many like me who would like to see it, mobile or not after all these years. Same with Bob Homewoods Escort, doesn't have to be running to be seen and would sure give added publicity to the cause.
Cheers
Tony

[CUSTAXIE50]

[QUOTE=Rod Grimwood;36124]Custaxie, don't know if you have noticed in some of my previous post's, but a CHILLY BIN is a start.

Catch ya[/QUOTE We will see.

[TonyG]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img047-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img047-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img029-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img029-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img017-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img017-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img032-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img032-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img028-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img028-2.jpg.html)

[TonyG]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/KieranWills.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/KieranWills.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/LeoLeonard.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/LeoLeonard.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img033.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img033.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img014.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img014.jpg.html)

[TonyG]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/GrantWalkerCapri2sm.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/GrantWalkerCapri2sm.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/GrahamAddis.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/GrahamAddis.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/GrahamAddis2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/GrahamAddis2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/DonHallidayCaprism.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/DonHallidayCaprism.jpg.html)

[touringcarfan]

Tony G, I don`t think people were unhappy at the prospect of seeing these cars, unfortunately a rather simple statement derailed this thread and everyone got tied up with the words genuine, historic, classic etc.
This class will ROCK and thanks for posting the photos. If one looks at the photos and videos, then here is a grid that could certainly grow with time.
It was unfortunate that Georges` attempt did not quite work out, so I thank the guys who are making this effort for the Festival.

Anthony

[John McKechnie]

Found this video link to the Algie Afetta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z31NiRMqFG8
Shows Ian racing Freeth, Wills etc .great viewing and has 3 race tracks.
Also features Gordon Burr with the car.
Cameo of Barrys Monaro sitting in Gordons shed also.
Great docco her from the old NZV8 days on TV.
Gets you drooling.

[Spgeti]

That's a great link John. Enjoyed it plus the Mopar stuff which showed my old school mate Mark Peacock in it with his early Cuda.

[Steve Holmes]

I've just embedded it here John. That NZV8 tv piece was shown on tv some years ago.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z31NiRMqFG8

[John McKechnie]

I am going over with Barry the origins of the Alfetta.
Watch this space as I will post it soon.
if any one else wants to put up the origins of any these cars, please go ahead.
As I posted earlier the Addis Charger was never a road car, it came second with Sprague , Leonard and then sold and went straight on the track.
Barrys Monaro was a road car, but as a result of a freak incident, had this radical transformation, that story will also follow.

[kiwi285]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img047-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img047-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img029-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img029-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img017-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img017-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img032-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img032-2.jpg.html)

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img028-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img028-2.jpg.html)

Great to see that the 4 cars in the first 3 photos are still here and they are ready to go now.

The black 'Evercool' car - does this still exist. I certainly don't remember it.

[John McKechnie]

Mike- looking at the Morris badge ,its the Marina V8, i understand there will be news on this from Rod .
Very handsome looking Sports Sedan

[seaqnmac27]

Great to see that the 4 cars in the first 3 photos are still here and they are ready to go now.

The black 'Evercool' car - does this still exist. I certainly don't remember it.


Built up by Graham Park, who is a member on here, though at this stage I think it had been sold and driven by John Caulton?

[rogered]

Built up by Graham Park, who is a member on here, though at this stage I think it had been sold and driven by John Caulton?

Correct

[Rod Grimwood]

Graham has it back as mentioned before, it is red and as he say's is not pretty in that colour. It has been bodgeyed around a bit but Parksey will sort her out. I may post photos shortly.

Roger, are you ready with that beast for some fun.

[Oldfart]

Rod, how far away is your car?

[Rod Grimwood]

It's not that far, just through the back door and office and in the garage.

Na started sorting brakes etc and looking at rose joints (scary, they not cheap) of which there are a few. Decided to strip right back and repaint again. Got to shift the sore rally car so we have some room.

[Andrew Metford]

I may post photos shortly.

Yes please!!! Any pics of your car would be appreciated too.

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes please!!! Any pics of your car would be appreciated too.

Will post Parksy's Marina soon

Regard my car, go to thread page 19 and thread Ford Escort and you will find photos of car as it was.

[rogered]

Graham has it back as mentioned before, it is red and as he say's is not pretty in that colour. It has been bodgeyed around a bit but Parksey will sort her out. I may post photos shortly.

Roger, are you ready with that beast for some fun.

I am:)

[Rod Grimwood]

Good one Roger, may have some interesting company. Had enquiries from a few but will not say any thing until we are all sorted and sure of whats happening. Remember the Festival is to put your toe in the water to see what it feels like, just a paddle around to start with before you go into the deep end.

Hopefully some cars with a lot of NZ history will be along for the play, and all cars have there own bit of history any way, and some of the peddlers have a bit of history to share as well.

Lets get organized guy's and get those entries into Jim Barclay,

Good looking list so far.

[Jizim]

Hi John. Barry came in to see us yesterday and is now a fully fledged member of HRC! He mentioned that rolling starts would be preferred, so we will do this at the Ferrari Festival - no problems there, as it makes good sense. regards Tony Roberts

Just imagine it will be like the old days....with me leading them around yet again!!...Ha ha ha ...... Seriously I am loving the the turn around of assistance to help these guys..( most of whom are my friends of by gone racing days)......might go hunt down my old Mazda to keep an air of honestly about the place. Big pats on the shoulders to Ray and other whom toss in a bit of financh to help out getting these cars to the grid. (perhaps a "guest drive" for past champions of the class could be in order.....hint hint!) Really looking forward to arguably the Best Event on NZ Motorsport calendar. Kindest Regards, Tony Rutherford.

[Jizim]

It's not that far, just through the back door and office and in the garage.

Na started sorting brakes etc and looking at rose joints (scary, they not cheap) of which there are a few. Decided to strip right back and repaint again. Got to shift the sore rally car so we have some room.

Stop pissing about Rodney and bring it down to my shop. You can do the whole lot here....I have spares like Rose /Heim joints all over the place....and I am a very proficiant car painter these days.....should cost you five eighths of what we used to run them back then... All you need is a trailer and of course your Chilly Bin. The girls are off to Aussie on the 7th Jan till 17th so we got 9 days to trash the place and one to pay some overseas assembled ladies to clean it! Don't forget the Chilly Bin!

[kiwi285]

Now that is what you would call a great offer.

[Rod Grimwood]

Now that is what you would call a great offer.


Mike, you do not know the rooster. Sounds good, but at the moment I am still married and that would only be the start, having to clean up the house would be the least of worries.

Tony you are right, you will be in front, but alas holding everyone up again.

cheers old boy.

[John McKechnie]

The history of the Alfetta- as told to me by Barry Algie- goes back to the mid 70s. They had just rebuilt and sold a Jensen Interceptor and Ian with his share of the money wanted to build a wilder Sports Sedan than Barry.
Barry had bought a HT Monaro from Ace Towing that had been stolen and torched.He already had the ZF transaxle from the Katipo MJ 70.
Ian was in raptures with the Alfetta shape, most perfect aerodynamic and was rear transaxle also.
There were no bodies available here, so where to get one?
So the brothers went off to that well known centre of fashion to get the most fashionable body- Milan in Italy.
At the factory there were bodies aplenty, but they were told to go to the Agent in Arezzo, a nearby district.
There they bought the body for 2 million lire- NZ$2000.
They had the body, and were directed to a wrecking yard(?) to get the rest of the parts to make up a car including the transaxle.
All this they loaded into a crate and sent to Montreal in Canada.
When they caught up with it, the crate had been opened and some stuff taken. Thats why the car had no door handles.
Next stage was moving in from one side of Canada to Victoria on the other side.
As finances were low, it was cheaper to buy an old truck, load it themselves and team drive non stop.
Some amusing and nasty things happened on the way, but after 4 days they arrived and sent it to NZ.
As it was not so easy importing in those days, he had had to buy an Alfa that was wrecked, show Customs that he was getting a replacement body even before they left.Proof was needed for importation.
There was another trip to Milan, this time Auto Delta to get the flares, however they werent available to be sold.
They contented themselves with looking through the windows to the workshop.
Ian then made the flares to suit.
The body is 1977, it arrived in 1978 and first ran in 1984.
Barrys Monaro was started in 1975 and ran 1985.
Alfetta still has the original V6 transaxle.

Missed this part. so will add-
The original idea was to fit a Porsche 930 Turbo motor , but as time went by was now not available, so the next decision was what to put in an Alfetta body- simple Ian came rolled up and Barry was dummying a Chev up ............
Seriously though, they were into Chevs, most F5000s were Chev ,light and transaxle .
At about that time the Halliday Bros had a motor available- the ex Ken Smith Lola Chapparal 302 Chev V8.
So that was purchased and went in to the car

The absolute uniqueness of the 2 Algie cars and Graeme Addis Charger are indeed testament to the enthusiasm people have to these Sports Sedans.

This thread welcomes any build stories, anecdotes on any of our Historic Sports Sedans, Allcomers and Oscas that we look forward to seeing on our tracks.

[John McKechnie]

Graeme Addis contacted me and has asked me to add this-

Hello John,

I have read your post about the Algies and the origin of the Alfetta and I believe every word of this.

I know Canada well, having had family live there and enjoy a really switched on country.

My mind goes into overdrive imagining the trip across that country in a truck full of Algies.

How they did buy a truck in French speaking east Canada? The French language they would have used would diddle the smartest froggie speaking truck dealer into a deal he never intended to make!

As for the trip, even the bears would have been ‘tested’. This all so Algie, and is why I have always had an affection and admiration for them. Nothing stops an Algie.

Ian and I spent all lot of time together, at full noise, never traded paint, and I could trust him in to do the right thing always.

I remember chasing him through Dunlop at Puke, both of us doing it really strong. Suddenly the Alfetta erupted, bits of ‘ravioli castings’ were landing on my bonnet!
I saw Ian reach up and snatch something out of the air inside his cockpit. Turned out it was the fire extinguisher that was mounted on the trans tunnel beside him.
The torque tube assembly had croaked and got all cranky, throwing bits of Italian engineering in all directions. Only time I know that it had a mechanical failure ..a real credit to them.

B/rgds,

Graeme Addis.

John I would like you to include the above in a post you might next do on TRS. It will reinforce the wonder of those years.

[TonyG]

Awesome stories.

[kiwi285]

The Algies were certainly smart engineers and I am amazed at the handstands that car builders had to go through to get the parts they needed. I remember that some cars had to be sent to Australia and then re-imported to ger round the restrictions prevalent then. They were certainly persistent.

Rod - I figured that that would be the case and probably not a lot of car rebuilding would have been achieved.

Mike

[45DCOE]

The Algies were certainly smart engineers and I am amazed at the handstands that car builders had to go through to get the parts they needed. I remember that some cars had to be sent to Australia and then re-imported to ger round the restrictions prevalent then. They were certainly persistent.

Rod - I figured that that would be the case and probably not a lot of car rebuilding would have been achieved.

Mike

There was a good article in the IPENZ (Institute of Professional Engineers) magazine a while ago regarding the Addias Charger. Will have a look in to see if I still have it and will post. Certainly a good worth while read.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Graeme Addis contacted me and has asked me to add this-

Hello John,

I have read your post about the Algies and the origin of the Alfetta and I believe every word of this.

I know Canada well, having had family live there and enjoy a really switched on country.

My mind goes into overdrive imagining the trip across that country in a truck full of Algies.

How they did buy a truck in French speaking east Canada? The French language they would have used would diddle the smartest froggie speaking truck dealer into a deal he never intended to make!

As for the trip, even the bears would have been ‘tested’. This all so Algie, and is why I have always had an affection and admiration for them. Nothing stops an Algie.

Ian and I spent all lot of time together, at full noise, never traded paint, and I could trust him in to do the right thing always.

I remember chasing him through Dunlop at Puke, both of us doing it really strong. Suddenly the Alfetta erupted, bits of ‘ravioli castings’ were landing on my bonnet!
I saw Ian reach up and snatch something out of the air inside his cockpit. Turned out it was the fire extinguisher that was mounted on the trans tunnel beside him.
The torque tube assembly had croaked and got all cranky, throwing bits of Italian engineering in all directions. Only time I know that it had a mechanical failure ..a real credit to them.

B/rgds,

Graeme Addis.

John I would like you to include the above in a post you might next do on TRS. It will reinforce the wonder of those years. A number of years back i got on the phone wanting to buy this car, $15,000 was what they wanted for this car at that time.A story that went around when they raced this car at one meeting was that the v6 transaxle let go,so, as one of the boys had a pilot licence they flew back home to pick up a replacement for this car.

[Rod Grimwood]

A number of years back i got on the phone wanting to buy this car, $15,000 was what they wanted for this car at that time.A story that went around when they raced this car at one meeting was that the v6 transaxle let go,so, as one of the boys had a pilot licence they flew back home to pick up a replacement for this car.

That was correct, it was gearbox/transaxle.

[Rod Grimwood]

Yes please!!! Any pics of your car would be appreciated too.


have some photos of Marina as in past and how Parksy found it. (soon to be changed back)

[Rod Grimwood]

How we remember the old girl, she had some wheels when on tune.

[Rod Grimwood]

And on the day that Parksy was reunited with her. Be great to see this car out there again. Oh! and you Parksy

[seaqnmac27]

The history of the Alfetta- as told to me by Barry Algie- goes back to the mid 70s. They had just rebuilt and sold a Jensen Interceptor and Ian with his share of the money wanted to build a wilder Sports Sedan than Barry.
Barry had bought a HT Monaro from Ace Towing that had been stolen and torched.He already had the ZF transaxle from the Katipo MJ 70.
Ian was in raptures with the Alfetta shape, most perfect aerodynamic and was rear transaxle also.
There were no bodies available here, so where to get one?
So the brothers went off to that well known centre of fashion to get the most fashionable body- Milan in Italy.
At the factory there were bodies aplenty, but they were told to go to the Agent in Arezzo, a nearby district.
There they bought the body for 2 million lire- NZ$2000.
They had the body, and were directed to a wrecking yard(?) to get the rest of the parts to make up a car including the transaxle.
All this they loaded into a crate and sent to Montreal in Canada.
When they caught up with it, the crate had been opened and some stuff taken. Thats why the car had no door handles.
Next stage was moving in from one side of Canada to Victoria on the other side.
As finances were low, it was cheaper to buy an old truck, load it themselves and team drive non stop.
Some amusing and nasty things happened on the way, but after 4 days they arrived and sent it to NZ.
As it was not so easy importing in those days, he had had to buy an Alfa that was wrecked, show Customs that he was getting a replacement body even before they left.Proof was needed for importation.
There was another trip to Milan, this time Auto Delta to get the flares, however they werent available to be sold.
They contented themselves with looking through the windows to the workshop.
Ian then made the flares to suit.
The body is 1977, it arrived in 1978 and first ran in 1984.
Barrys Monaro was started in 1975 and ran 1985.
Alfetta still has the original V6 transaxle.

Missed this part. so will add-
The original idea was to fit a Porsche 930 Turbo motor , but as time went by was now not available, so the next decision was what to put in an Alfetta body- simple Ian came rolled up and Barry was dummying a Chev up ............
Seriously though, they were into Chevs, most F5000s were Chev ,light and transaxle .
At about that time the Halliday Bros had a motor available- the ex Ken Smith Lola Chapparal 302 Chev V8.
So that was purchased and went in to the car

The absolute uniqueness of the 2 Algie cars and Graeme Addis Charger are indeed testament to the enthusiasm people have to these Sports Sedans.

This thread welcomes any build stories, anecdotes on any of our Historic Sports Sedans, Allcomers and Oscas that we look forward to seeing on our tracks.

Sorry John it the Alfetta ran a lot earlier than 84. Either 79 or 80.

[kiwi285]

How we remember the old girl, she had some wheels when on tune.

The car builders had a knack of producing some real horny looking cars. They looked fast standing still. That car will be a great addition to the HSS fields in the future.

[ERC]

As John is taking it on his shoulders to issue invitations, may I suggest that anyone interested - or who has any suggestions, passes them on? The term 'invitation' is not like waiting to see if you are invited to a party, but a case of the convenor accepting an application and then issuing an invitation if it ticks the appropriate boxes.

I'd hate to think that potentially, one of the best grids at the festival is short changed in any way because people were sitting on their hands, just waiting to be asked. John has contacted many drivers/owners but he can't be expected to know everyone. Well done John, for taking on the responsibility so willingly.

This has the potential to be the best festival since the opening McLaren event. What marks it out as a must see, is the opportunity to see cars we haven't seen on track before or in some cases, haven't seen for many years. Even if these cars only appear once a year, it stamps a unique look to the meeting and a photographer's dream.

If any cars are as yet unfinished, it might be good to see them displayed too.

[John McKechnie]

Will just confirm Rays comments-

" a case of the convenor accepting an application and then issuing an invitation if it ticks the appropriate boxes."

I am the coordinator for this class, if you have a car that you want to have on this grid , and it meets the class requirements -Pre 85 Invited Allcomers and Historic Sports Sedans- and yes it includes Oscas- then please forward your details to me or Jim Barclay.

[kiwi285]

Picking up on the point from ERC, I personally love to see incomplete cars on display as it certainly stirs up interest for the future. Craig Stacey brought along the Nazer Victor and George the Sidchrome Mustang before they were complete and they both drew large numbers of fans just to drool over them and keep the faith for future meetings.

Anyone who has such a car would be welcomed with open arms by the organisers and public alike. Please give it some serious thought. But be on hand to answer the inevitable questions and information proffered by those who were there to see them first time round.

And all the best for the festive season and trust that 2014 will be a great one for you all.

Mike

[John McKechnie]

Time for an update-
Was talking to Adrian Dobbe today, his entry is in - those looking at the Baypark 1976 clip on another thread will see it there in yellow- could be the oldest Sports Sedan in the field.
Doesnt that make you think, 37 years a race car - cant see conrods favourite ssssanyyongs lasting that long.
Hats of to the constructor, and all the owners for it being around for so long.,and Vauxhall for producing a quality product.
Talking about quality,Barry Algie swung by today with the fattest, slickest Hoooosiers still wrapped in plastic, just arrived from US of A.Usual thing, trying to get them cleared from Customs lost him a day.
He was stroking them lovingly, and describing how these babies were going to put him so far ahead of everyone else on the grid ,even Tony Rutherford.
He says the view of Roger and Graeme behind him at the start is better than the same view after the first corner. Should be no cobwebs to blow out, just slipping back behind the wheel- makes it sound so easy.
He has had the radiator made, he made the aluminium moulds for the tanks himself and after leaving me was going to the heat treatment and give them the works for 4 hours then drop in cold water. Take home and weld to the radiator, then fit to car.
Will be going to his place with video to show the car running.
There is still some adjustment to the ducts, and finish off the front clip with fibreglass.
But he is keen and excited and thats what gets people to the start line.

Rogered- would you please add a post here on your Torana, a lot of people probably dont know the history here, and would love some background before seeing it in action.

[kiwi285]

Thank God some people had the nous and foresight to purchase these cars and keep them for future generations (and some old codgers) to appreciate and see in action again. I think that cars restored to better than new condition and trailered everwhere are an absolute waste of great machinery.

There must still be dozens of these cars around so if you are lucky enough to own one and can't bring it along for us to drool over then at least come along yourself and see what is happening with the cars that are there. Talk to your old friends and foes to get yourself motivated to get your pride and joy running again.

Reading John's post above it seems that some of the old rivalry is still present and waiting for the starters flag. Just don't get too much red mist colouring your view of the track.

Mike

[John McKechnie]

Mike- yep, these guys remember that back then they were always the last race on the program.
Why, you ask?
because the fans would sit through anything- unreliable F5000, FV,- to see these loose cannons. After they had been on, there was no reason to stay.
And rivalry- hah, they are competitive. This is who they are and this is what they do.

[John McKechnie]

Barry swung round today, he heat treated the newly cast radiator tanks.
Found an empty 44 gallon tank, put it next to the stove, filled it with water.
Heated the tanks to 150 degrees in the stove for 4 hours.
Then used short forceps and quickly dropped straight in the waterI.
There is only a 2 second lag from oven to water- no time to worry about charrred finger tips.
got an email from Graeme, and he is so pleased that Barrys tyres are here and the radiator is well under control-

*Heard it all before….., watched one motor mouth, panicking to get in and going, pull his helmet on backwards..thought “that’s one way to stop the verbal noise”.

The only reason Barry would look in his mirror, is he’s just had his boot wrinkled, a love tap, a reminder from you know who that there is something quicker behind. Actually, a mirror in Barry’s car is excess weight because most of the time it would be empty.*

[kiwi285]

[/QUOTE] Heard it all before….., watched one motor mouth, panicking to get in and going, pull his helmet on backwards..thought “that’s one way to stop the verbal noise”.

The only reason Barry would look in his mirror, is he’s just had his boot wrinkled, a love tap, a reminder from you know who that there is something quicker behind. Actually, a mirror in Barry’s car is excess weight because most of the time it would be empty.[/QUOTE]

That would have to be one of life's truly embarrassing moments, bat at least he couldn't be accused of letting the red mist distort his judgement.

Well I guess that not having a mirror is one less thing to worry about and following drivers will politely let you know when they are trying to pass.

Mike

[Andrew Metford]

Dad found the photo he took of Barry standing with his car at Pukekohe. We have it dated as 9 October 1988, I was 11 then.

We would have driven out to watch the days' racing in Dad's 1967 MK 2 Cortina, white with red vinyl interior, bench seat, and 4 on the tree. I used to love going to the race track with Dad in his Cortina, which he'd rebuilt and painted at home, a trend that has continued with all of our old cars right up to this day. Dad kept that car immaculate, as he does all his cars. Ah the memories of the good old days, and I'm only 36!!!!

Thanks for the update John on Barry's progress, and I hope others are having success with their preparations. I think this class will be the spectacle of the event and create a lot of excitement.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/NZ%20Sports%20Sedans/img023_zpskskvgbfp.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/NZ%20Sports%20Sedans/img023_zpskskvgbfp.jpg.html)

[John McKechnie]

Andrew- simply smashing pic, like all of us, has survived brilliantly. Our team will be looking after Barry, and updates will be done regularly.
Graeme also is loving this occasion and adding his growing excitement-John,

Known Addis quotes;

• “To have fun and nostalgia with an “Old Girl” you have to forget about winning, just do it as fast and hard as you both can, until one of you needs to smoke”…November 2013.
• “I have won stuff, but what I can’t beat is that evil in me ..Racing” Taupo 1986.
• “creation, construction, racing…3 drugs better than sex” Pukekohe 1984.

Yours to publish if you want.

B/rgds,

GA.

[John McKechnie]

Graeme has kindly given another gem from the past for us to enjoyHere you go, John:

*At a televised GP meeting at Pukekohe I was being interviewed live by Tony Palmer.

With the camera poked in my face he asked “Can you tell us what modifications you have done to the Charger?”

I thought ‘idiot..has he got a week?’ and said “ Yeah well it has a Morris 1100 gear knob”

The interview ended right there and he went away.

GA.*
Thanks Graeme, keep them coming please.

[Andrew Metford]

Graeme has kindly given another gem from the past for us to enjoyHere you go, John:

*At a televised GP meeting at Pukekohe I was being interviewed live by Tony Palmer.

With the camera poked in my face he asked “Can you tell us what modifications you have done to the Charger?”

I thought ‘idiot..has he got a week?’ and said “ Yeah well it has a Morris 1100 gear knob”

The interview ended right there and he went away.

GA.*
Thanks Graeme, keep them coming please.

That's gold :) Wish that interview was on youtube

[John McKechnie]

I started this thread on the 21st November, one month later we are going to hit 8000 views.
Thanks guys for following this and keep your contributions coming.
Adrian Dobbe is having his motor in the Viva freshened and we wish he and John Sampson all the best as they work to get the car ready for us to enjoy.

[John McKechnie]

Barry,
I have been without a road car for a couple of years and I am so light and skinny from riding my push bike everywhere that my car will be too light and fast for you to catch, unless you have been working out.........

Addis reply:

Do they make helmets that small? Small heads in big helmets tend to rattle about over 140 mph, blurring the wearer’s vision and the wonderful sight of the Charger going away!

[Rod Grimwood]

Barry,
I have been without a road car for a couple of years and I am so light and skinny from riding my push bike everywhere that my car will be too light and fast for you to catch, unless you have been working out.........

Addis reply:

Do they make helmets that small? Small heads in big helmets tend to rattle about over 140 mph, blurring the wearer’s vision and the wonderful sight of the Charger going away!



Of coarse Barry always did carry a bit of weight, 'Yea Right' TUI

[kiwi285]

Of coarse Barry always did carry a bit of weight, 'Yea Right' TUI

That's obvious from the great photo in post # 144.

That's a horny looking car to add to the collection making it back to the track after many moons hiding away.

Historic racing forever.

[rogered]

Time for an update-
Was talking to Adrian Dobbe today, his entry is in - those looking at the Baypark 1976 clip on another thread will see it there in yellow- could be the oldest Sports Sedan in the field.
Doesnt that make you think, 37 years a race car - cant see conrods favourite ssssanyyongs lasting that long.
Hats of to the constructor, and all the owners for it being around for so long.,and Vauxhall for producing a quality product.
Talking about quality,Barry Algie swung by today with the fattest, slickest Hoooosiers still wrapped in plastic, just arrived from US of A.Usual thing, trying to get them cleared from Customs lost him a day.
He was stroking them lovingly, and describing how these babies were going to put him so far ahead of everyone else on the grid ,even Tony Rutherford.
He says the view of Roger and Graeme behind him at the start is better than the same view after the first corner. Should be no cobwebs to blow out, just slipping back behind the wheel- makes it sound so easy.
He has had the radiator made, he made the aluminium moulds for the tanks himself and after leaving me was going to the heat treatment and give them the works for 4 hours then drop in cold water. Take home and weld to the radiator, then fit to car.
Will be going to his place with video to show the car running.
There is still some adjustment to the ducts, and finish off the front clip with fibreglass.
But he is keen and excited and thats what gets people to the start line.

Rogered- would you please add a post here on your Torana, a lot of people probably dont know the history here, and would love some background before seeing it in action.


Not sure i have your skills as a "wordsmith":)

[John McKechnie]

Just to remind you all that 4th January is cut off date for the program.
Also that there is the cheque option that Jim Barclay has pointed out to assist the commitment to entries.
Any body trying to get in late will be late ,22 entered so far.
Its all about showing the world these cars in this class have lost none of their crowd pulling power,and if the reason for not entering was because someones engine was too powerful ,they will go into the draw for the - Spitting for Dummies Award, the prize will be a crate of Glaxo with a thousand teats..
Historics is about just being there.
The emphasis should be on participation.
Owners and drivers to be encouraged to do their own thing as fast and as hard as they comfortable with.

[kiwi285]

Its all about showing the world these cars in this class have lost none of their crowd pulling power,and if the reason for not entering was because someones engine was too powerful ,they will go into the draw for the - Spitting for Dummies Award, the prize will be a crate of Glaxo with a thousand teats..

Historics is about just being there.

The emphasis should be on participation. Owners and drivers to be encouraged to do their own thing as fast and as hard as they comfortable with.

Hell John - go careful with the prizes here as we don't want to give them all the shits and not turn up at all LOL

The fans want to see the cars on track and doing their thing. I have been to all of the Festival races and I couldn't tell you who won any one of the races - I simply don't care about the results. I just want to see the cars and drivers enjoying themselves.

Mike

[Rod Grimwood]

Not sure i have your skills as a "wordsmith":)



Roger email me grimmie64@xtra.com.nz with your contact and phone numbers (mobile & home)

[kiwi285]

Email from George

'No I wont be taking the siddy to the festival as I don’t want to wipe away the hard fought achievements of this old racecar by cars like the Mercedes that look like they were from the same era but in fact have an 850hp nascar engine in them that lap HD 7 seconds a lap faster than the likes of my poor old car.

I don’t have a problem with any period correct car blowing the doors off the old girl as that is just how it was. Don’t get me wrong but I do hope that the allcomers race at the Festival does bring out some more true Sports Sedans although I have my doubts after my experience, but then you do get a lot of people that will run their cars when there is a large audience to watch. I will still be a runner in something like the defunct NZHSS if there ever is enough cars but for the meantime she can just sit in the garage.

Also, I don’t do show and shine as I am a racer and prefer to be on track with the cars going as hard as I can with my cars without damaging them. So it wasn’t something I liked doing when I took the siddy to those shows to try to help get that series going. But anyway I hope you have an enjoyable day there, but I wont be going at all because of course I would be pissed off that I wasn’t running. Sorry to disappoint you but I am a man of principle and don’t hesitate to back them up.'

George

[ERC]

John, don't forget to send me a bank account number - or two!

George, the speed differential between your car and the one quoted is considerably closer than the Sports/Sports Racing/GT grid which I'd be in if I was running. Try 12 or 14 seconds a lap, not 7.

Sad that you are not running or showing, as you at least got this great ball rolling, but we always respect someone with principles. If any one car is so out of kilter that it puts several drivers off, then it needs to be addressed by the organising team.

I for one would be happier with some sort of speed grouping rather than just by age, which is somewhat meaningless in the context of the Festival.

Like kiwi285, I haven't a clue who won any races either and there have been fingers pointed at one or two past cars, but I'm oblivious and don't really care, just as long as we get a great variety on track or even on display. In fact, I am happiest going on the Friday and Saturday before the inevitable attrition or decimation sets in! I often have to give the Sunday's a miss anyway.

[John McKechnie]

Regarding post #156
When I took on this position as class coordinator I was very aware of the elephant in the room- unlimited modified engines.
There is Rays thread on - So, exactly which cars are deemed Hot Rods?-and fotunately we have seen publicly the cars discussed. They were Escorts and not an allegedly NASCA engined certain Germanic manufactured car or others looking like they were from the same era.
I personally like to see the facts-"but in fact have an 850hp nascar engine in them" rather than wild public statements.
We have 22 drivers entered who do not consider this an issue., they are the ones who want to race, and are all winners in my eyes.
Any major changes between lap times from last year and this year will be too obvious.

[TonyG]

What would be better for the sake of "parity", the "Nascar" engine in the Merc or the original Twin turbo power plant which would be a damn side quicker. If I was able to get home and see this event I would not care what the engine was, I would just be happy to see the car.
I did not think there were any cattle stations on offer at this event so what does principles have to do with the speed you are prepared to drive your car at. The public are not idiots, 99% know that the cars are from different eras and don't care. They just want to see and hear the cars.
It all seems a bit silly to me but what do I know.
Regards
Tony

[John McKechnie]

Just an update on cars here folks.
I was hoping to get Robert Bartley with Custaxie 2 and Tony Boyden with THAT Camaro .
Both said they would love to be part of this, however the timing has not come together for this event.
A little history on another car to be here is Shane Johnson 1965 Mustang.
It has been seen in the CMC series, but I feel that with its history it is acceptable on this grid.
Malcolm Uddy ran it in the 90s.- 1995 it won the first NZ Targa Rally, also raced for 20 years in Sports and GT against the Fulford Porsches.
The body is stock metal, suspension and steering components are in the original place, engine is period and his attitude OK fits here.
Cam Crawford also has a car that was CMC series. His XA Coupe is invited as the car body and suspension is stock configuration, 351c motor.
If it wasnt for the alloy heads and wheels it could run HMC.
Both these cars are definitely period enough to be here.
TonyG- great attitude mate- there is so much more to racing cars than winning. Be great to have you here as you are a regular contributor.

[Steve Holmes]

What would be better for the sake of "parity", the "Nascar" engine in the Merc or the original Twin turbo power plant which would be a damn side quicker. If I was able to get home and see this event I would not care what the engine was, I would just be happy to see the car.
I did not think there were any cattle stations on offer at this event so what does principles have to do with the speed you are prepared to drive your car at. The public are not idiots, 99% know that the cars are from different eras and don't care. They just want to see and hear the cars.
It all seems a bit silly to me but what do I know.
Regards
Tony

I think the twin-turbo motor was good for around 800 - 900hp back in the mid-1980s wasn't it Tony? That was an immensely powerful car for the time. I recall reading somewhere about how it was entered in the Sandown round of the World Sportscar Championship, the Porsche 956 drivers were quite astonished as it was actually pulling away from them on the main straight! Of course, that was only in practice, the car didn't last long enough to still be working for the race. And that was its biggest problem, and the reason why the small block Chevy was put back in it.

So even if it did still have the twin-turbo motor, the speed difference wouldn't be an issue at the Festival, as it would last two laps and stop.

[Steve Holmes]

Dad found the photo he took of Barry standing with his car at Pukekohe. We have it dated as 9 October 1988, I was 11 then.

We would have driven out to watch the days' racing in Dad's 1967 MK 2 Cortina, white with red vinyl interior, bench seat, and 4 on the tree. I used to love going to the race track with Dad in his Cortina, which he'd rebuilt and painted at home, a trend that has continued with all of our old cars right up to this day. Dad kept that car immaculate, as he does all his cars. Ah the memories of the good old days, and I'm only 36!!!!

Thanks for the update John on Barry's progress, and I hope others are having success with their preparations. I think this class will be the spectacle of the event and create a lot of excitement.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/NZ%20Sports%20Sedans/img023_zps2e88e250.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/NZ%20Sports%20Sedans/img023_zps2e88e250.jpg.html)

This is a fantastic photo!

[RacerT]

Email from George

'No I wont be taking the siddy to the festival as I don’t want to wipe away the hard fought achievements of this old racecar by cars like the Mercedes that look like they were from the same era but in fact have an 850hp nascar engine in them that lap HD 7 seconds a lap faster than the likes of my poor old car.

I don’t have a problem with any period correct car blowing the doors off the old girl as that is just how it was. Don’t get me wrong but I do hope that the allcomers race at the Festival does bring out some more true Sports Sedans although I have my doubts after my experience, but then you do get a lot of people that will run their cars when there is a large audience to watch. I will still be a runner in something like the defunct NZHSS if there ever is enough cars but for the meantime she can just sit in the garage.

Also, I don’t do show and shine as I am a racer and prefer to be on track with the cars going as hard as I can with my cars without damaging them. So it wasn’t something I liked doing when I took the siddy to those shows to try to help get that series going. But anyway I hope you have an enjoyable day there, but I wont be going at all because of course I would be pissed off that I wasn’t running. Sorry to disappoint you but I am a man of principle and don’t hesitate to back them up.'

George

I just spoke to Roger to find out all the facts on the Mercedes Coupe. It is a 362 cubic inch, 5937cc Chev V8. Not a NASCAR engine!
Roger revs it to 7,500 and makes just over 660 bhp. He has recently replaced the electronic fuel injection with the original Lucas McKay mechanical setup to make it period correct and said it has the bonus of running a lot better!

The car sports the original brakes and Hewland LG600 5 speed gearbox.

George needs to remember that the Sidchrome Mustang was an early 70’s car and the Thompson Mercedes Coupe was a winning car in the 1980’s, so he shouldn't be embarrassed by the speed difference. Roger is also a very experienced and fast driver of big banger Can-AM and F5000 cars, having won races in the USA, so will always be the man to beat. But we must always keep in mind that this series is not about winning, it's about being there and people would like to see the Sidchrome Mustang at the Festival.
Merry Christmas to All.

[John McKechnie]

Thank you Tony for this.
In the public interest and fairness, I have allowed both sides to be presented
There are no NASCAR engines in our class.
This subject is now closed.

[Rod Grimwood]

Thank you Tony for this.
In the public interest and fairness, I have allowed both sides to be presented
There are no NASCAR engines in our class.
This subject is now closed.


Some engines get quoted as things they are not. This is something that can be sorted when there are 40 'classic' cars on the grid, until then, Don't forget the chilly bin for later guy's.

Been fairly busy but keeping an eye on whats happening. as said before, Roger does mileage and the car is awesome as it always was in it's hay day.

[ERC]

Sent the money today John. Use however you think fit. Two transactions as discussed.

When chatting to John at the TACCOC meeting, I offered him the use of our AES Series BBQ, which resides in my apartment garage at HD, for the use of this group (and maybe HMC as they seem to be overlapping groups!).

Sorry, I am not in a position to be able to transport it to the paddock myself nor cook for you. So, if someone can get in touch with me or through John (who will have his hands full) and sort out moving it to and from the paddock, checking all is OK and sorting out supplies, it may prove to be a useful congregation point. There is certainly some gas in the bottle, but not sure how much. You'll need your own oil, ketchup, mustard, salt tongs etc., and some means of cleaning it of course.

It can always be stored in someone else's garage at the conclusion of the Festival - or maybe if you speak to Tony Roberts nicely, he may be able to sort it, as his garage almost backs on to mine.

Equally, as I only have one car in my garage at the moment, there is space for another if required, but again, I'll let John decide that, but I only have one garage door zapper and I'll need that.

I'm planning to be there for the first Friday at least.

[John McKechnie]

just posting a couple of stories for those who have a life away from reality-

Only thing that comes to mind storywise right now, is one time I met Dave Algie at LAX on his way back to NZ to run the
Monza over the new year meetings He had a bunch of parts and some tires also from memory He got a right prick
customs man, and was severely grilled and they kept most of his parts at the airport pending payment of a decent sum
of money After a week or two, they were able to get access to it at the airport customs, so they swapped all the good
parts for old junk parts and tires, and just never paid the duty or ever claimed it- Anon

[John McKechnie]

And another-

John

In Reading that story you wrote about the Algie journey across Canada etc, it reminds me of a time in late ’85, when Ian and I went
to the end of season IMSA event at Daytona in December Of course the main reason for the trip was to bring back a bunch of
Chevy engine parts and other Sport Sedan items, like wheels etc Barry needed a pair of new heads for the Monaro, for which we
took an old pair of ‘smog’ type mid 70’s heads with the appropriate bowtie head part numbers stamped into them I think there was
also a crankshaft and a carb’ on the list as well, with the necessary part numbers stamped on

When we arrived at LAX, we claimed our bags and all the old parts, and with them now having served their purpose, they were
dumped in the nearest trash bin at the exit of the terminal As we had a bit of time up our sleeve, we decided to wait for the
rubbish man, who looked very much like Mr Obama, who was several bins further down the terminal, to get to the bin with all
the discarded cast iron We figured it was worth watching the reaction to getting a thin plastic bag containing 100 + lbs of
cast iron out of the bin and into a rubbish cart Alas he was too slow and we ran out of time, so we never did see, but it
was well worth a laugh

Of course a couple of weeks later we cruised into Mangere with all the ‘reconditioned ‘ parts with the appropriate paperwork
and after the mandatory grilling and bullshit session with some customs Hitler, set off for home

Obtaining parts today is a breeze in comparison


merry Xmas everyone!!!!!!

[Rod Grimwood]

This is a few words that Roger Davis put together about the life of his Torana Sports Sedan.

* (I (Grimme) have added a little from my memory banks from back then. (in brackets with *)

Hi John

Basically it came about like this.

Dad (Syd) and I were doing a bit with a Torana XU1 and the time came to move to something better. The Ex Coppins Richards L34 came up for sale, and we all-but brought it, but for some confusion over ownership.

So plan B, We will build something ourselves !

This is around late 1985 and Commodores etc were too new and out of the question.

The car we brought was a 1976 Torana, one owner 4 cylinder, and quite a nice car.

We brought an ex post office Bedford truck that had been repowered with a 308. Kept the 308, and sold off the truck.

We weren't "Rolling in cash" but my family had a transport engineering business, so we did have a bit of gear and shop space.

We brought a smashed 6 wheeler Fiat truck , raided that for parts and wrecked for more funds .

The 308 didn't reach the car, as a 350 Chev was a cheaper option, so chev it was. 308 Gone !!

We picked a Muncie and also brought the whole rear end from John Windelburns trans am.

*(This from an email from John Windleburn.)*

*(Yes that 9" that we sold to the Davis lads It was a Lincoln diff that came from Garth Hogan from memory, and Pete Lodge narrowed it up a bit. Can't remember where the LSD centre came from, or the CW&P, but possibly from Warren Arthur. Peter Bruin made the Watts Linkage setup for it and the suspension links I think Roger Davis took all that as well)*

The engine was moved back, had some mild mods done to it and away we went.

Basically it was a big family effort to build this thing and we first had a run in late 1986.

*(This is when I and the other Sports Sedans boy's meet Roger and the family. If I remember right it was at Taupo. What I do remember is seeing this nice looking red Torana being towed into the pit area and the boys all looking and commenting how good it looked. We wandered over in time and introduced ourselves and chatted about the car. One thing I do remember is the whole family being there and helping out. Roger, Dad (Syd, now there is another story for a rainy day) his mum and brothers (one who would later race a quick Toyota) The car then had flares, spoiler etc and sounded the part. watched Roger in practice and he drove real well, always was a tidy driver.)*

We ran club stuff, and Sports Sedan stuff normally toward back of the field. But who cares, because the front end of the field was made up with the likes of Crowe, Huxford, Osborne. The Alfetta, and the likes, so it was a buzz to be on the same bill as those blokes. bearing in mind the year before I was a sitting in the stands with my school mates.

*(I enjoyed when Roger ran back in fields as we could play, this did not last long as these guy's were always improving the car with new suspension mods and bits and they moved up with big boys. These people did it right, crawled, walked and then ran. And as a family group.)*

We ran at the support races for the Nissan Mobil 500 and the Grand Prix when that was all the rage

*(About this time it grew a rear wing)*

Pretty much ran on and off through until 1991. when we could afford it, and quietly did our own thing around mid field.

*(1991: This was when I and family shifted to Bay of Islands to live and run our business. Sadly just before we shifted I had blown the motor in my little Escort at Pukekohe on the kink in back straight, with a rod bolt shooting out the side and clouting Ian Algie on the foot as he stood beside the Alfetta which had stopped the lap before, he came into pits and gave it to me and asked what the engine looked like, as we had just arrived back we lifted the bonnet and there were 2- 1 litre Fords hanging in there, sadly this spelled the end for a long time as business, family etc took over. I would still travel down and watch the meetings and was always impressed how the Torana got a little quicker each time.)*

As with everybody else we were constantly chopping and changing.

1991 I went off the road in it whist doing the Heads Rd Hill Climb (Dad did the same thing about 15 years later in his Porsche. So that's a 100% DNF crash result at that event to date)

That necessitated a big rebuild, and it did not turn a wheel again until around 1996. We ran Kiwi Sports Sedans predominantly at Taupo and Manfield until 2002 We did have the Taupo lap record for that class for quite a few years, so that was pretty cool , because there were a few hot shoes running around down there at the time.

2002 it was parked up.. Its not restored as you will see, and still has all the stone chips and scrapes.

Pretty much just changed all the fluids

Now 25 years after getting blown away buy these gents, I might finally be able to make amends. I'm a generation behind, age wise so must surly be able to keep up with these pensioners. :)

We are pretty much ready to run at the festival, just rewiring the old girl and a new MSD to cure the fails from that first meeting

Im keen as hell to see that Monaro run again, I will likly have some free days during the holiday period, Happy to swing a spanner if you guys start to run out of time

Cheers

Roger Davis



*(I had bumped into Roger and Syd at some meetings at Hampton Downs over the last 3 odd years as they kept themselves busy in their Porsche's. The first Sports Sedan meeting a couple of months back was the first time I had seen the car and it looked good. All new front suspension configuration from last time I had a good look, and trick bit of gear, (have a look when you can). These guy's are what Sports Sedans and motorsport are about, they have a go, they talk, they listen, and they produce, but most of all they enjoy what they are doing.

Mr Addis, Williams, Algie, Burr, Jack and others, don't drop the ball or he will have ya.

Welcome back Team Davis and that beautiful Red Torana)*

[John McKechnie]

Thanks Rod- now here, folks is one about our Grimmie-
Barry was driving out to Puke with the race car on the flat deck of the Ford truck he was driving.
At the township, he was running late and failed to give way to a cop.
He kept going all the way to the track , cop behind, lights and siren going.
On arrival he started off loading the race car, with the cop doing his job to Barry
Rod walks up to the cop car and says to the cop- Youre running late mate, you need to do your entry and put some numbers on the car.
Any more to add on this story Rod?

[Rod Grimwood]

Thanks Rod- now here, folks is one about our Grimmie-
Barry was driving out to Puke with the race car on the flat deck of the Ford truck he was driving.
At the township, he was running late and failed to give way to a cop.
He kept going all the way to the track , cop behind, lights and siren going.
On arrival he started off loading the race car, with the cop doing his job to Barry
Rod walks up to the cop car and says to the cop- Youre running late mate, you need to do your entry and put some numbers on the car.
Any more to add on this story Rod?


Yes, remember that. He was a fairly important looking type and just stood there and looked at me. I smiled and said basically 'loosen up mate only a little joke' but he wasn't in a joking mood. At least it gave Barry something to smile about.
Must admit, we did all have a chuckle when we heard this siren and looked up the entrance and the truck with big car on back trundling down the hill with cop car following. Think I was standing with Tony Rutherford and my crew and we all joked to the tune of 'shit didn't know Algie was that important that he got a police guard to the track'
As we discussed later, Barry was hard of hearing.

Ahh good harmless fun John, did make us all keep an eye out on way out of town later though.

[John McKechnie]

Calling for assistance here- Barry Algie is making a new front for the Monaro off the mould.
The first effort was unsuccessful owing to wrong information on the epoxy mix.
If anyone is a competent fibreglass mat and epoxy user and has some time, it would help Barrys schedule- especially after losing several days.
Barry is in Remuera, no contact number, but please pm me with your number if you can spare the time.
At the moment I would say this weekend , he is chasing more material at the moment.
His radiator is made, the guys at NSA helped him with the welding of the end tanks, now he doing the ducts and, get this- making his own dizzy rotor as the original is lost and replacement cant be identified.

[John McKechnie]

Roger Davis has very kindly stepped in and has someone organized for this, will post pics as they come through

[Habu]

Nice photo of Barry's Monaro. That's my older brother standing at the rear of the car wearing the glasses with his arms folded. It would have been one of a handful of times he helped Barry with this car. I was also there that day. We couldn't believe Barry raced his car wearing "Nomad" crepe soled shoes - how many people remember those! If you look closely you can see them in this photo. When the car ran, it sounded fantastic

[John McKechnie]

Habu- just found your post from 2012-
[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;20127]I'm really enjoying these Ray, just fantastic! That shot of the Algie Alfetta is brilliant. Those pieces of wood being used as a ramp look slightly perilous.

Yikes - look how young Barry is, standing next to the car!!!
The ramps were dodgy alright - probably the same ones i saw collapse as they unloaded Barry's Monaro off the Ford/Dodge transporter about 5 years later !
Another one from Ray also 2012-
The Ian Algie GTV blew me away when I first came to NZ. Now safely in the hands of Gordon Burr so we have seen it out at Hampton Downs. I hope some of the other wilder cars are seen out again.
Am getting Ray to post this pic here from another thread.

[ERC]

23088

I dated these two pics as the same day, but it appears now that there are differences so I suspect the action shot was taken later than the paddock shot. I'll need to go through my original negatives to find the truth!

23090

23089

January 16th 2010

[AMCO72]

Habu.........'brothel creepers'......the shoes that is. Used to be all the go.

[kiwi285]

All of us would have had at least one pair of brothel creepers in our wardrobes.

[Rod Grimwood]

All of us would have had at least one pair of brothel creepers in our wardrobes.

Mike, I don't know what you mean. I know what shoes and a wardrobe are, but whats a brothel.

[Frosty5]

Mike, I don't know what you mean. I know what shoes and a wardrobe are, but whats a brothel.

Come on Rod, didn't you ever have broth as a kid and it was as hot as 'el

[Jac Mac]

Come on Rod, didn't you ever have broth as a kid and it was as hot as 'el

In the day there was not much hotter than Elle

[John McKechnie]

Update on Barrys Monaro- the list of things to do is getting shorter.
My panelbeater has spent 2 half days with him, and will work tomorrow and Monday.
It will be a race to get there.
Many thanks to Andrew Metford for his indulgence in allowing Barry to get this far.
Andrew is leaving Australia tonight to come back to NZ, and hopefully I will take him Tuesday,
And unlike an unnamed time waster who interrupted Barry for an irreplaceable 3 hours, it will be a quick visit.
You cant get back wasted time on this deadline.
Ducts need to be modified then radiator fitted, only then can it be started
Hopefully Rogered will give an update on the laying of the fibreglass for the front

[John McKechnie]

just found this for some enjoyment-
Posted 26 October 2005 - 10:12
What about the Graham Addis Charger?

As I recall it eventually got rebuilt around the Lola T190 that Carl Rayborn was supposed to race in NZ - ie it was rear engined.

I heard it was destroyed in a bizzare accident when a motor cyclist smashed into the trailer towing the car.

Then there was the Barry Algie Monaro. Not an HQ Monaro - the Norm Beechey model before. This despite the car appearing in the mid 80s. It was actuallt seriously fast and Barry was fearless. Or something.

[Jizim]

Time for an update-
Was talking to Adrian Dobbe today, his entry is in - those looking at the Baypark 1976 clip on another thread will see it there in yellow- could be the oldest Sports Sedan in the field.
Doesnt that make you think, 37 years a race car - cant see conrods favourite ssssanyyongs lasting that long.
Hats of to the constructor, and all the owners for it being around for so long.,and Vauxhall for producing a quality product.
Talking about quality,Barry Algie swung by today with the fattest, slickest Hoooosiers still wrapped in plastic, just arrived from US of A.Usual thing, trying to get them cleared from Customs lost him a day.
He was stroking them lovingly, and describing how these babies were going to put him so far ahead of everyone else on the grid ,even Tony Rutherford.
He says the view of Roger and Graeme behind him at the start is better than the same view after the first corner. Should be no cobwebs to blow out, just slipping back behind the wheel- makes it sound so easy.
He has had the radiator made, he made the aluminium moulds for the tanks himself and after leaving me was going to the heat treatment and give them the works for 4 hours then drop in cold water. Take home and weld to the radiator, then fit to car.
Will be going to his place with video to show the car running.
There is still some adjustment to the ducts, and finish off the front clip with fibreglass.
But he is keen and excited and thats what gets people to the start line.

Rogered- would you please add a post here on your Torana, a lot of people probably dont know the history here, and would love some background before seeing it in action.

Ha ha ha love it.....John get a message to Barry and tell him that I will be looking in the mirror in case he "hooks up" off the line and let him know I am old school and will "hold my line" in case he accidently "Hole shots" me!...... Can't wait to catch up....like Rod says....don't forget the Chilly Binz!! See ya Friday Chaps...you are all Champions in my book. Regards, Tony Rutherford

[John McKechnie]

looking forward to it Tony.
Just heard Ron Findlay in the Capri Pirana damaged his gearbox at Taupo, hope you can get it sorted this week Ron, and join us all for two weekends of action and excitement.

[ERC]

Ron was going so well at Taupo with brilliant three way battles between himself, Grant Kern's MGB V8 and Zac Lawrence's BMW 635.
Great driving and all lapping at about 1:08.

Certainly hope it can be fixed in time.

23151

[rogered]

Update on Barrys Monaro- the list of things to do is getting shorter.
My panelbeater has spent 2 half days with him, and will work tomorrow and Monday.
It will be a race to get there.
Many thanks to Andrew Metford for his indulgence in allowing Barry to get this far.
Andrew is leaving Australia tonight to come back to NZ, and hopefully I will take him Tuesday,
And unlike an unnamed time waster who interrupted Barry for an irreplaceable 3 hours, it will be a quick visit.
You cant get back wasted time on this deadline.
Ducts need to be modified then radiator fitted, only then can it be started
Hopefully Rogered will give an update on the laying of the fibreglass for the front

Just the normal last minite hold ups, waiting on material. Just layed up now, bit of finishing in the morning, should be out of the mold mid afternoon tomorrow.

[Howard Wood]

:cool:[QUOTE=ERC;36973]Great driving and all lapping at about 1:08./QUOTE]

Considering the A1 lap record is 1.14 that is great driving Ray. Maybe 1.48?

[ERC]

Whoops! Yes, 1:48... 108 seconds... Good to see you going so well too Howard! (A win in the BMW handicap?...) Sorry, no pic, as I was calculating our own handicaps when you were racing.

[John McKechnie]

just found this for some enjoyment-
Posted 26 October 2005 - 10:12
What about the Graham Addis Charger?

As I recall it eventually got rebuilt around the Lola T190 that Carl Rayborn was supposed to race in NZ - ie it was rear engined.

I heard it was destroyed in a bizzare accident when a motor cyclist smashed into the trailer towing the car.

Then there was the Barry Algie Monaro. Not an HQ Monaro - the Norm Beechey model before. This despite the car appearing in the mid 80s. It was actuallt seriously fast and Barry was fearless. Or something.



Graham Addis has asked me to post this in the interest of accuracy-

Hello John,

You and others have made comments on TRS about the Charger being destroyed in a road accident etc.

The car was not destroyed.

It suffered severe roof, rear end body and wing damage. The panel work was a simple fix, and was completed prior to MANZ banning the car.

The rest of the car including the spaceframe chassis survived without any significant damage.

I think accuracy is key around historic vehicles.

You may wish to enlighten others to the above fact.

Thank you.

B/rgds,

Graeme Addis.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Have PM'd you John.

[John McKechnie]

Just heard Ron Findlay has got another gearbox so all going well we will see him in action this weekend.
We have 26 entries for this class, a great effort by all competitors to exceed the numbers from previous years.

[Snoozin]

I'm really, really looking forward to seeing these cars in action, best of luck for the weekend to all involved and I'll be sure to post a few shots from the Festival!

Cheers, Richy

[AMCO72]

John, I would just like to thank you for welcoming the Amco Mini into the ranks of the Historic Sports Sedan class at the Festival this weekend. From what I can understand you have stepped in as co-ordinator of this up, and very definitely coming, class.
I have no doubt that these will be the races to watch.

While the Mini is not really a Sports Sedan, I am sure we are going to have some fun trying to keep up with some of these fire-breathing monsters, and we may be up against it as far as horse-power is concerned, but I have a feeling that it will be the cars that are still running at the end who will be the victors.

To the Chap, or Chaps who organised this promotion, could you please put your hands up so that we can suitably reward you with a box of Roses chocolates!!!!!

[Malcolm McLeod]

Oh goody, I get to use the blue flag!!!!! LOL

John, I would just like to thank you for welcoming the Amco Mini into the ranks of the Historic Sports Sedan class at the Festival this weekend. From what I can understand you have stepped in as co-ordinator of this up, and very definitely coming, class.
I have no doubt that these will be the races to watch.

While the Mini is not really a Sports Sedan, I am sure we are going to have some fun trying to keep up with some of these fire-breathing monsters, and we may be up against it as far as horse-power is concerned, but I have a feeling that it will be the cars that are still running at the end who will be the victors.

To the Chap, or Chaps who organised this promotion, could you please put your hands up so that we can suitably reward you with a box of Roses chocolates!!!!!

[John McKechnie]

Update on Barrys Monaro- Roger Davis very kindly brought the mould and front to Pokeno, thanks Roger
Scotty picked it up and took it to Barrys workshop, it still needed some finishing, was primed a few hours ago.
It will have the tilt mechanism fitted to it, then to the car and vitamin C orange paint applied.
Another full day by Barrry, John and Scott.
I gave Barry 20 litres race gas so he can start it tomorrow, and Scott goes to Ardmore with my 44 gallon drum to fill it up.- cant take the tech workers off the car.
The ducting moulds are finished and now installed with radiator going in at 7.30 am.They are still working now.
There will be another full day tomorrow,
I will be doing his entry Friday morning, speak to CoC and all going well he will make qualifying.

[Rod Grimwood]

On way down now, so may se you today John depending how trip goes.

If not see you at HD

[John McKechnie]

Graeme Addis appeared and ran the Charger today in the deomonstration, what a sight.
So many people said to me it was just as they remembered it, what a time capsule, it was if he had never been away.
The car passed scrutineering, but there was a major hiccup with no log book.
All the officials who could help did exactly that, wonderful people here.
Fortunately it was a Friday and Chis Watson called MANZ to do his utmost ,and before the day finished Graeme had an official letter with a logbook number.Chris put a huge amount of his personal time into this also Brian friend- thanks for caring mates
Graeme and his team have asked me to publically thank hugely everyone involved for attending to this.
He could have been told to go away and come back with the relevent completed logbook, thus ruining a long held dream as well as the weekend.
However Classic racing is about looking after each other, it was fantastic to get it resolved before racing tomorrow.
After all the work he has put in and overlook this at a race meeting is upsetting, and a special huge thank you to Terry Karkeek, Crunch and those at MSNZ for doing this.
There is definitely cooperation at a high level here, and I know that Classic racing is in good hands with Crunch and his team.
Anyone meeting them tomorrow, please pass on your appreciation of them to him as he will be there.
And by the way, I have Barry Algies logbook, licence and club membership , I will be registering him first thing in the morning as arranged.
He wont be there Sat , but for sure on Sunday, and boy, is he champing at the bit to get out there.

[Spgeti]

Nice to hear John, enjoy the weekend, Cheers

[ERC]

Thanks also to Campbell Robertson the MSNZ Steward.

I won't be there tomorrow but a huge Saturday crowd today. Great atmosphere and plenty to look at off track. (See the other Festival thread for pics.)

[TonyG]

Home NZFMR - The Ferrari Festival (Week one) Race 25 - Rolling Start
Race 25 - Rolling Start
Location Hampton Downs Motorsport Park Date 18-01-2014 12:00
Length 2.6800 km
Best lap time 01:11.495 in lap 2
Best speed 134.946 By competitor Gordon Burr

All results
Results by class

Compare competitor
Show lap chart
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pos start no. competitor laps total time diff best time best lap best speed
1 8 Dennis Running 8 11:30.682 01:11.950 4 134.093
2 65 Shane Johnson 8 11:32.651 01.969 01:12.483 2 133.107
3 43 Tony Galbraith 8 11:33.043 02.361 01:12.451 3 133.166
4 25 Paul McCarthy 8 11:33.179 02.497 01:12.829 2 132.475
5 28 Michael Sexton 8 11:36.430 05.748 01:14.820 2 128.949
6 11 Roy Bingley 8 11:37.371 06.689 01:15.750 4 127.366
7 68 Roger Davis 8 11:37.984 07.302 01:15.149 8 128.385
8 181 Ron Findlay 8 11:39.531 08.849 01:15.982 4 126.977
9 7 Peter Hooper 8 11:40.912 10.230 01:15.774 8 127.326
10 40 Adrian Dobbe 8 11:42.773 12.091 01:15.736 4 127.39
11 93 Ivan Selak 8 11:42.986 12.304 01:15.800 2 127.282
12 30 Cameron Crawford 8 11:44.125 13.443 01:16.125 2 126.739
13 346 Steve Doughety 8 11:46.116 15.434 01:17.627 4 124.287
14 200 Ryan Dreadon 8 11:54.321 23.639 01:22.813 2 116.503
15 87 Nathan Wood 8 11:55.854 25.172 01:23.225 4 115.927
9 Graeme Addis dnf 6 10:17.411 01:20.752 2 119.477
61 Gordon Burr dnf 4 04:56.998 01:11.495 2 134.946
72 Robert Jack dnf 3 03:46.548 01:12.419 3 133.225
141 John Marslin dnf 3 04:58.004
39 Angus Fogg dnf 2 02:50.604 01:16.975 2 125.339
12 Roger Williams dns
Announcements

#141 - John Marslin - Your transponder is not working

[TonyG]

Home NZFMR - The Ferrari Festival (Week one) Race 34 - Rolling Start
Race 34 - Rolling Start
Location Hampton Downs Motorsport Park Date 18-01-2014 16:35
Length 2.6800 km
Best lap time 01:11.599 in lap 4
Best speed 134.75 By competitor Tony Galbraith

All results
Results by class

Compare competitor
Show lap chart
print

pos start no. competitor laps total time diff best time best lap best speed
1 8 Dennis Running 8 09:53.780 01:11.910 2 134.168
2 25 Paul McCarthy 8 09:56.134 02.354 01:13.214 4 131.778
3 72 Robert Jack 8 09:57.021 03.241 01:12.363 3 133.328
4 65 Shane Johnson 8 09:58.100 04.320 01:13.023 2 132.123
5 28 Michael Sexton 8 09:58.446 04.666 01:13.079 4 132.022
6 346 Steve Doughety 8 10:17.851 24.071 01:14.147 3 130.12
7 93 Ivan Selak 8 10:24.418 30.638 01:15.773 3 127.328
8 377 Ross Graham 8 10:25.675 31.895 01:14.567 4 129.387
9 181 Ron Findlay 8 10:29.956 36.176 01:16.521 2 126.083
10 30 Cameron Crawford 8 10:30.052 36.272 01:16.470 4 126.167
11 7 Peter Hooper 8 10:31.684 37.904 01:16.145 3 126.706
12 43 Tony Galbraith 8 10:42.634 48.854 01:11.599 4 134.75
13 87 Nathan Wood 8 11:15.253 01:21.473 01:22.176 2 117.407
14 200 Ryan Dreadon 7 10:10.570 1 lap 01:24.384 2 114.334
15 9 Graeme Addis 7 11:14.957 1 lap 01:23.659 3 115.325
68 Roger Davis dnf 6 07:30.045 01:13.166 3 131.865
40 Adrian Dobbe dnf 3 04:07.568 01:19.042 3 122.062
11 Roy Bingley dnf 2 02:44.620 01:17.664 1 124.227
39 Angus Fogg dnf 2 02:45.266 01:17.315 2 124.788
141 John Marslin dnf 1 01:43.803
Announcements

#141 - John Marslin - Your Transponder is still not working.

[TonyG]

Home NZFMR - The Ferrari Festival (Week one) Race 43 - Rolling Start
Race 43 - Rolling Start
Location Hampton Downs Motorsport Park Date 19-01-2014 12:00
Length 2.6800 km
Best lap time 01:11.988 in lap 3
Best speed 134.022 By competitor Robert Jack

All results
Results by class

Compare competitor
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pos start no. competitor laps total time diff best time best lap best speed
1 8 Dennis Running 8 09:50.287 01:12.069 4 133.872
2 43 Tony Galbraith 8 09:50.944 00.657 01:12.535 2 133.012
3 72 Robert Jack 8 09:51.552 01.265 01:11.988 3 134.022
4 65 Shane Johnson 8 09:52.269 01.982 01:12.256 4 133.525
5 28 Michael Sexton 8 09:53.872 03.585 01:13.030 5 132.11
6 68 Roger Davis 8 10:06.885 16.598 01:12.844 3 132.447
7 377 Ross Graham 8 10:12.752 22.465 01:13.773 8 130.78
8 11 Roy Bingley 8 10:14.504 24.217 01:15.338 2 128.063
9 181 Ron Findlay 8 10:17.017 26.730 01:15.542 5 127.717
10 40 Adrian Dobbe 8 10:17.959 27.672 01:14.399 8 129.679
11 30 Cameron Crawford 8 10:18.966 28.679 01:14.992 8 128.654
12 7 Peter Hooper 8 10:19.137 28.850 01:15.764 7 127.343
13 200 Ryan Dreadon 7 09:52.384 1 lap 01:22.468 2 116.991
14 87 Nathan Wood 7 09:53.734 1 lap 01:22.218 2 117.347
15 9 Graeme Addis 7 10:08.408 1 lap 01:19.403 7 121.507
93 Ivan Selak dnf 4 05:13.938 01:15.879 4 127.15
141 John Marslin dnf 3 04:49.388
Announcements

#141 - John Marslin - Your Transponder is still not working.

[TonyG]

Home NZFMR - The Ferrari Festival (Week one) Race 52 - Rolling Start
Race 52 - Rolling Start
Location Hampton Downs Motorsport Park Date 19-01-2014 16:35
Length 2.6800 km
Best lap time 01:12.627 in lap 7
Best speed 132.843 By competitor Tony Galbraith

All results
Results by class

Compare competitor
Show lap chart
print

pos start no. competitor laps total time diff best time best lap best speed
1 43 Tony Galbraith 8 09:59.112 01:12.627 7 132.843
2 68 Roger Davis 8 10:00.473 01.361 01:12.638 8 132.823
3 8 Dennis Running 8 10:00.889 01.777 01:13.033 8 132.105
4 65 Shane Johnson 8 10:01.385 02.273 01:12.936 4 132.28
5 28 Michael Sexton 8 10:02.737 03.625 01:13.315 5 131.597
6 30 Cameron Crawford 8 10:21.530 22.418 01:15.748 4 127.37
7 93 Ivan Selak 8 10:22.894 23.782 01:16.023 6 126.909
8 7 Peter Hooper 8 10:24.017 24.905 01:15.157 6 128.371
9 181 Ron Findlay 8 10:41.958 42.846 01:16.481 6 126.149
10 87 Nathan Wood 8 11:12.946 01:13.834 01:21.969 3 117.703
11 200 Ryan Dreadon 8 11:21.509 01:22.397 01:23.609 3 115.394
12 9 Graeme Addis 7 10:42.786 1 lap 01:25.872 4 112.353
72 Robert Jack dnf 7 09:28.431 01:12.708 4 132.695
11 Roy Bingley dnf 5 07:07.805 01:16.288 2 126.468
40 Adrian Dobbe dnf 05.745

[TonyG]

Problems for Barry Algie Monaro? Hope its ok for next weekend.

[John McKechnie]

We got Barry Algie to the track today, flew through scrutineering- thanks to John Ure, original logbooks last entry was 1995.
Almost had it running to go on the track, but one of injector O rings played up.
The tent had a constant flow of appreciating fans, competitors and race officials.
This car will be running next week.
Hopefully Mike Feisst can put up some pix.
Graeme Addis had the Charger running in all races and wanted to run at his pace-great for being out there and still doing it.
Graeme ran 3 laps with the MK 2 Zephyr as a tribute to his past childhood and close friend Rod Coppins.
graeme has asked if any one out the snapped a pic of them, could they post it please.

[ERC]

Bruce Manon was driving car 28. Mike Sexton is driving next weekend.

[kiwi285]

http://i44.tinypic.com/xqjswp.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/29ks22e.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/1j90t5.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/xdtmdu.jpg

Looking forward to seeing this car run next weekend.

Mike

[John McKechnie]

S T U N N I N G

[Malcolm McLeod]

I caught up briefly with Barry, you could tell how excited he was at getting the car finished, and also how touched he was at the support given to him by so many people, no, friends!
Definitely the highlight of the meeting.

[John McKechnie]

When you look at this car, its the detail- from the Superbird style rear spoiler, the colour coordinated orange trim on the wheels, and fittings from Havard aeroplanes for strength and lightness. The panelbeaters number was a 6 digit back then, they have been 7 digits since the 90s. The front clip was painted, rest of car has the original paint from when first built, just buffed. Many thanks to Shane and Fraser Windlebourne for their time also.

[Murray Maunder]

Real shame one of the guys who pushed so hard for this class chose to not enter, I was really looking to seeing his iconic car. Of course Sports Sedans always were about people who "pushed the envelope" and more so the dispute over a certain car's eligibility is totally unsurprising. I would have thought the usual kind of lobbying in and out of season would see some kind of resolution even if it took a year or more. By adopting a stance of "principle" the class is diminished and that's a shame for everyone. I just hope common sense will eventually rule the books and the racetrack.

On a more positive note it was good to see the guys put on a show on Sunday afternoon and I'll be back for a closer look next weekend.

[Rod Grimwood]

The 'certain car' is actually alright, it has had things changed and this actually works better, as does happen. it is a shame as you say Murray and hopefully this is all put behind and we get to see more cars in each others company again.

[John McKechnie]

An update for next weekend-
Gordon Burr is doing the Alfetta gearbox- was the imput shaft that cried enough,.Being repaired and WILL be there next weekend.
He is so keen that he is going to also take along his V8 Historic Escort from the 80s to keep running if the Alfetta croaks again.
BTW Nigel MacDonald also had his fastback Mustang to step into when number 35 punched a hole in the sump in the HMC class.
How is that for being keen, how is that for satisfying the fans.
To those who say the quantity is down, look at this pre 85 class, the numbers are up on previous years.
Also , just spoke to Robert Jack, never a happy moment when you get punted off the track. He also will be there.

[Snoozin]

This is exciting.

[John McKechnie]

I thought the racing was excellent and my hat goes off to these guys lapping at sub 1.13 times in a saloon car. I am doing mid 1.18s and to take 5 full seconds off , mind blowing.

[Andrew Metford]

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2112_zpsf309c961.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2112_zpsf309c961.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2115_zps892c9dc5.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2115_zps892c9dc5.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2263_zpse412ad1a.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2263_zpse412ad1a.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2297_zps3c118a2a.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2297_zps3c118a2a.jpg.html)]

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2363_zpse3a30f61.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2363_zpse3a30f61.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2348_zps1e91802f.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2348_zps1e91802f.jpg.html)

[Andrew Metford]

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2217_zpsd555207a.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2217_zpsd555207a.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2169_zps9768da40.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2169_zps9768da40.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2359_zpsc77931cd.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2359_zpsc77931cd.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2129_zps727e3e05.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2129_zps727e3e05.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/JAFA851/IMG_2157_zpsc71cce86.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/JAFA851/media/IMG_2157_zpsc71cce86.jpg.html)

[Shoreboy57]

No criticism at all John of HSS / Allcomers- you and your colleagues have done a great job. Fingers crossed to see the Algie Monaro running next weekend. Seeing the Charger again was wonderful. I loved seeing the Escorts running with the V8s. Now if someone could get an old school fully flared Capri V8 back out there....(no disrespect to the Piranha)

Overall my summation of the fields is better described as disappointed rather than critical that a few of the classes were somewhat thinner than in the past. But they was still plenty of interest and won't stop me returning.

[Rod Grimwood]

Hey Roger, think I prefer the old girl with the windows in, but shit she hussled in the last race, good shot chap, and all of you who joined in.
I have penned a little bit for later.

[rogered]

thanks rod, yeah i enjoyed it, my helpers warren, dad, and darryl fiddled away and got the old thing going pretty well, we were surprised how well it went
Regrettably i got a bit keen a bumped Robert jacks car, (The last thing i wanted to do), and bugged his run. So I must publicly apologise.
always enjoy catching up with you.

[Rod Grimwood]

This is a quick sum up of the weekend.

To all the people who were involved in the Pre-85/Sports Sedans races, a very big thank you from the guy who at the start you may have thought was a grumpy direct old bugger at the drivers meeting/brief, but you all listened and behaved very well. There was a incident in the last race and I happened to see the start of it but have been informed of the rest of it. This appears to be a genuine 'racing incident' in which the 2 have chatted and sorted with no problems. Unfortunately a little damage was sustained by Robert but he will be back this weekend (better be, I love that car).
I hope to see you all there again with your great cars and smiles.
Apologies for my lack of presence in the pits with you all but I was a little busy at times, but watched every start and then a point for driver watch along with 2 others around track, and they reported good behaviour, close but controlled with respect.
Apologies for the first start, but it was a gremlin in the lights and the HD crew sorted it. You are obviously a very attentive and absorbent lot as you soon had the starts down to a T. You also all drove to standards that were asked for, great close stuff with respect shown, and a couple of you actually shook off the cobwebs as the meeting went on.
Great to see Gordy (until gearbag fell apart) and Dennis at it along with Robert in earlier races. That Orange Charger is not what you go shopping in and well driven by Tony along with the neat red Mustang of Shane. Pity Rogers Merc damaged its rear end but lets hope she is all fixed and ready next week end. And I can hear some of you saying 'that bloody little Escort and that Manon guy are a pain in the butt', but that is something that has not changed, he has been like that forever. Bruce was one of the original Sports Sedan members. Those Escorts are quick ah Paul, you going good as well. Great to see Roy and the Commodore up front bunch as well. In amongst this was a silver Viva doing it until last race when windscreen went west.
Awesome to see the Addis Charger again and great to see you as well Graeme, hope you enjoyed your ride as I enjoyed seeing and hearing the old girl again.
Roger Davis must have popped some get fast pills in the last race, man you had the Torana flying, air assisted and all. Great effort team and thanks for your assistance with the big orange Monaro Roger and friends.
From the front to the back some pretty cars, from big grey fire throwers to straight virgin white quick Toyota (a very well built and presented car) well done.
Pity about the windscreens in last race also, but when that is the main damage, (apart from Robert) all good by you guy's.
Thanks again for the standards you all set and catch you next weekend.
And a special thanks to our man from MSNZ, who has kept an eye on things and helped out in a very big way.
Late news dribbling in as I have been writing this afternoon is. Apparently the Alfetta has another shaft for gear bag, Robert will be back, Roger Davis hopefully can find a screen and perspex for windows along with Adrian and a diff for the Merc would finish it off nicely. And of coarse the long awaited Orange Monster and it's tamer Barry.
Curious, what broke the windscreens boys.
Cheers and once again thanks for your efforts over the week end and also the wife's and crews a big thank you.

Sorry I forgot the guy who done the most, big pat on back for John boy, thanks from all of us mate.

Regards
Grimme

[Malcolm McLeod]

And an entry has apparently lodged and accepted for a red and yellow Mustang........

[kiwi285]

Holy hell if this is correct I will be in petrol head heaven for the whole three days. We desperately needed this to happen and it is really great to see. Roll on Friday and the sights and sounds to come. This will hopefully encourage other car owners that it is time to bring them out to play.

Now when are we going to see that Miss Victorious ??? Yeah Ha

[Snoozin]

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2844/12009431583_a38f97712e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12009431583/)
IMG_9395 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12009431583/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3724/12047146896_6bf613c765_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047146896/)
IMG_8369 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047146896/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2855/12009965926_a6bb59c8b6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12009965926/)
IMG_9384 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12009965926/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3820/12047683226_3ca9b07f4a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047683226/)
IMG_8334 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047683226/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5506/12047618556_d387ae8f88_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047618556/)
IMG_8357 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047618556/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

[Snoozin]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3805/12047598616_a9aa8044b2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047598616/)
IMG_9307 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047598616/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2886/12047036793_2d680fc83d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047036793/)
IMG_9268 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/12047036793/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

[Snoozin]

And I sure as hell can't wait to see all of the above and some more on track this coming weekend!

[John McKechnie]

And an entry has apparently lodged and accepted for a red and yellow Mustang........

As coordinator of this class I can confirm this, yeehaaa, welcome aboard George and we hope you will have a fantastic weekend with the usual suspects.
You were the one that started this ball rolling.
And Malcolm- thank you for posting this, take a bow for being first with this news.

If anyone else with a suitable car wants to be part of the EXTRA special event contact me ASAP

[Rod Grimwood]

Holy hell if this is correct I will be in petrol head heaven for the whole three days. We desperately needed this to happen and it is really great to see. Roll on Friday and the sights and sounds to come. This will hopefully encourage other car owners that it is time to bring them out to play.

Now when are we going to see that Miss Victorious ??? Yeah Ha


As mentioned Mike, off your knees and don't be late, could be a crowd at Pearly Gates

Miss Victorious is in good hands and doing well at the old persons revival clinic, it takes time, we don't want her ending up like Michael Jackson with a rushed job. Her nose must be perfect, to go with the rest of her.

[kiwi285]

Rod I will be there on Thursday afternoon awaiting its arrival. This is the best possible news for the class and the sight and sounds of these historic cars will be treasured for the rest of the year. There are going to be some great shots posted on this thread from Friday onwards.

I understand that the Victor is being worked on and the front end is nearly complete.

So many great cars still around - hopefully this class will gain the momentum needed to persuade these owners to come and join in. Imagine the ex Spinner Black Camaro in there as well.

[crunch]

As coordinator of this class I can confirm this, yeehaaa, welcome aboard George and we hope you will have a fantastic weekend with the usual suspects.
You were the one that started this ball rolling.
And Malcolm- thank you for posting this, take a bow for being first with this news.

If anyone else with a suitable car wants to be part of the EXTRA special event contact me ASAP

Hi John, can you make sure that the original paperwork from the weekend for the Addis Charger is sent to the MSNZ asap so the logbook etc can be sent. MSNZ Tech Dept. P.O.Box 3793 Wellington

[John McKechnie]

Crunch- I am onto it now.

[ERC]

This class HAS to grow now the ball is rolling and should be inked into next year's Festival programme.

I am running a low key meeting April 21st (at HD) and have a space in the programme. An open saloon grid would be my preference. Seems a shame to have a licence and only run once a year...

[Rod Grimwood]

This class HAS to grow now the ball is rolling and should be inked into next year's Festival programme.

I am running a low key meeting April 21st (at HD) and have a space in the programme. An open saloon grid would be my preference. Seems a shame to have a licence and only run once a year...


ERC, it will grow hopefully as wheels are spinning and contact with some other very interesting cars and drivers is on going with positive vibes. to all who have taken part and those with interest, lets keep in contact and go ahead with this, as I believe it is a goer, and a big thank you to uncle George for starting the ball rolling, it rolled slow to start but is picking up motion.

[Frosty5]

Hi Ray (ERC) and Rod Grimwood. Have sent you a PM.

Cheers Dave Graham

[ERC]

PM Received Dave. Our series BBQ will be available for you and will need transporting down from the apartment garage. I have let Dale know as I don't think cooking sausages on his exhaust manifold really appealed...

Not sure how much gas is in it but it comes with a set of BBQ tools. I'll be there Friday and probably early Saturday.

Thanks to Auckland Engineering Supplies for donating the BBQ to our series.

Great pics snoozin.

[Rod Grimwood]

PM you Dave, will contact you, think it good idea for get together after Saturday, Even Sunday as Monday is holiday.

You guys into a sausage and chilly drink and chin wag.

[John McKechnie]

Shell has released a report predicting the end of petrol-powered cars will be in 2070.-todays Herald.

Well , we now have a deadline to get those unfinished cars out here ,no excuses and make sure Hampton Downs 2070 is a real event to be remembered.

[John McKechnie]

Just got back from Barrys.
We threw a rope on it and towed it round the block at Highbrook.
THE ENGINE STARTED, AND HE DROVE IT.
The Monaro lives again.
Front oil seal to be replaced in the morning

[kiwi285]

It will be a tribute to all who have invested so much time and money into this project to get Barry on track and that horny looking car doing what it does best. I will be there to help in any way possible - just ask.

[Kiwiboss]

Shell has released a report predicting the end of petrol-powered cars will be in 2070.-todays Herald.

Well , we now have a deadline to get those unfinished cars out here ,no excuses and make sure Hampton Downs 2070 is a real event to be remembered.

2070? another 56 years and i'll only be 110 and probably still racing, i'll let you all know how it goes(now! were the hell did i put that time machine) LOL

Dale M

[Malcolm McLeod]

I'm sure Dewi will do a great job organizing the 2070 Festival of Motor Racing, celebrating the V8...lol

2070? another 56 years and i'll only be 110 and probably still racing, i'll let you all know how it goes(now! were the hell did i put that time machine) LOL

Dale M

[kiwi285]

Unfortunately I won't be around to see it - I will be 123 years old

[crunch]

Unfortunately I won't be around to see it - I will be 123 years old

You never know! By 2070 you may well be able to live to 123 years old quite easily...you will probably look like shit, forget the "important" stuff the wife tells you and wanna pee every 20 minutes......but that not much different to what my wife says is happening already

[Oldfart]

You never know! By 2070 you may well be able to live to 123 years old quite easily...you will probably look like shit, forget the "important" stuff the wife tells you and wanna pee every 20 minutes......but that not much different to what my wife says is happening already

You will have to stop drinking that beer with the female hormones in it :cool:

[Rod Grimwood]

Hey Crunch, if we could live to that age and the only problem was peeing every 20 minutes, reckon I could adjust to that, just would have to shorten races to be with in the time and way we go, just see the boys hopeing out with their litttle bag and heading to dump hole. (some do it now)

[Andrew Metford]

Just got back from Barrys.
We threw a rope on it and towed it round the block at Highbrook.
THE ENGINE STARTED, AND HE DROVE IT.
The Monaro lives again.
Front oil seal to be replaced in the morning

Very well done John, I'm super excited to see the car run after all these years.

Thanks for you phone call last night, it was much appreciated. See you tomorrow for a weekend of memories that'll last a life time.

[John McKechnie]

23366
These are the troublesome hood pins.
Top pics show how they should be at road speed.
Bottom two show problems of using reproduction stuff.
Bottom right pic- the pin that goes through came out in the first race allowing drivers bonnet to lift.
Bottom right - third race,outer ring gave way coming out of bottom sweeper in last lap causing pass side of bonnet to lift.
Bottom right again-fourth race, bottom sweeper, head tore off pin, causing drivers side of bonnet to lift
Have now effected permenant repair.

[Kiwiboss]

And I believe we'll be seeing this on the weekend!!

[kiwi285]

You never know! By 2070 you may well be able to live to 123 years old quite easily...you will probably look like shit, forget the "important" stuff the wife tells you and wanna pee every 20 minutes......but that not much different to what my wife says is happening already

Hell Crunch - I am having those problems now. Well maybe not quite 20 minutes as yet. LOL At least we are still enjoying life and getting all excited about seeing old cars on track again. Wonder at times, what the younger generation will get all excited about.

Mike