How many classes?

[rf84]

NZ has a population of just over 4 million people. These 4 million live in a land area slightly bigger than the UK (80-odd million people).
I recently began to compile a list of all the classes of cars currently racing on our tracks (i.e. excluding rally/off road racing). I got to 26 and gave up-there were a lot I was not aware of. So, with your collective knowledge I will start a list here, beginning with single seaters.
Formula First/Vee
SI Formula Ford
National FF
Historic FF
Formula Libre
Formula Suzuki
Formula Challenge
F5000
TRS
Formula Junior.
Please feel free to add your class or those you know are currently racing.

[John McKechnie]

Historic Muscle Car- and competing

[crunch]

There are too many. All it does is spread the fixed number of people who want to go racing over a wider area, so smaller grids.
However; you try and tell some people that their class is not really what the sport needs...

[928]

how to kill motor racing divide and conquer. while people want a class to race in, and start their own, ( witness $2000 saloons and others) motor racing will die. witness sports car racing, went to under/over 2 litre classes where is it now? just my 2c worth

[RogerH]

With the single seater classes you would need to split out the historic classes (F5000, FJ, Historic FF) as they cater to a different category of competitor who probably wouldn't compete in the "mainstream" classes.

[ERC]

There is a valid reason for splitting classes when the speed differentials are large, but not if it means two (or more) tiny grids.

We split ours into two groups as we had too many for one grid years ago. We now have the second highest number of registered competitors in our 27 year history (120) , yet this weekend, we only have enough for one grid. Ice Breaker 2010, we had 80 cars at the first meeting (43 AES +37 ARROWS) out of a season's total of 117 cars.

The speed differentials within the two classes mean that splitting by speed works best for us so as to eliminate faster cars starting handicaps from the pit lane, or people getting lapped in scratch races - and I do prefer handicap races..

We currently have a situation with two marque series running small grids this weekend, one well established and one trying to get off the ground, so I approached them to see if they would consider combining (most of the drivers run in AES or Arrows alongside each other anyway.... ). The long established marque club were happy enough, but the newer series marque club did not want to combine as they "wanted to promote their marque".

Now the other side of the coin is that as a series organiser, I have had a lot of stick (written as well as verbal) over the years for being pragmatic and allowing in cars that the "establishment" or even purists within our ranks refused to accept. As a great supporter of Mike John's inital Targas, there were many cars that did not fit into the established race categories, but driver's wanted to race their Targa cars on circuits. When we rewrote our rules to accept some of them, the established organising club at the time, wouldn't accept them at their meetings, nor replicas, as they didn't fit with THEIR philosophy.

Our own philosophy has always been inclusive and pragmatic, but then even the H & C Commission don't see it that way either, hence our running outside of T & C - a situation that we have now accepted.

It is a complex area and I agree, there are far too many classes and many of them are not financially viable now and never will be.

The only alternative is to say to invited race groups, you buy a grid for say $3,000 (+ the MSNZ levy per driver), and split the entry fee between your guys however you think fit. Get 30 guys together and that is only a $100 entry fee plus levy. If you can't justify the $3,000, then combine with another group or groups, but I certainly will no longer be promoting any race meeting that is going to lose money.

Sadly, no one will normally take up the grid purchase offer. At this stage, they can't see that they are indeed killing off the club level of the sport and by being unwilling to share the track, they are hastening their own demise at this level.

If the U2K group gets off the ground and they get 25 cars at each meeting, then I can guarantee that they'll be higher on my invite list than a marque club that only produces 6 entries paying the full fee.

From my own perspective as a driver, then as long as I am not lapped and driving standards are enforced, I really don't care who I race with, BUT (and it is a big, "but") much as everyone used to enjoy the annual Datsun Z speed group meeting, I do prefer a series environment, as the camaraderie is what makes it so enjoyable.

[rf84]

Carrying on with the list.
Supertourers
NZ V8's
Super Sixes
Holden HQ?
Mini 7?
SS2000
Pro 7
Suzuki Swifts
Production saloons
Central Districts Muscle Cars
Pre 65's
Honda Cup
Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
Star cars
Arrows Wheels-not sure how many classes here-maybe someone can tell us?
Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
OSCA?
2K Cup
BMW-2 classes?
No doubt there are more.

[John McKechnie]

George Shewiery has 2 Muscle car series-
Production Muscle.
Northern Muscle
Is there Sports Cars any more?

[CUSTAXIE50]

Carrying on with the list.
Supertourers
NZ V8's
Super Sixes
Holden HQ?
Mini 7?
SS2000
Pro 7
Suzuki Swifts
Production saloons
Central Districts Muscle Cars
Pre 65's
Honda Cup
Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
Star cars
Arrows Wheels-not sure how many classes here-maybe someone can tell us?
Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
OSCA?
2K Cup
BMW-2 classes?
No doubt there are more. Look we all know what they want to see out there,they want to see what went down at PUKE last weekend any car with a v8 in it.As you all know there is a meeting today about starting up a new class HISTORIC SPORTS SEDAN so put that on the list allso

[rf84]

Yes-Sports cars are still active. They run 3 classes + there is talk of another (front engine "Clubmans" type cars) being established as these cars are no longer competitive against the rear engined Junos, Radicals etc. One of the few classes that still provides an outlet for Kiwi ingenuity.
Production Muscle
Northern Muscle

[fullnoise68]

You forgot the utes.

[ERC]

Supertourers
NZ V8's
NZ V8 Utes
Super Sixes
Holden HQ?
Mini 7?
SS2000
Pro 7
Suzuki Swifts
Production saloons
Central Districts Muscle Cars
Northern Muscle Cars
Production Muscle cars
Historic Muscle Cars
Pre 65's
Honda Cup
Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
Star cars
ERC (Euro) - 1 Arrows Wheels - faster group
ERC (Euro) - 2 AES/TradeZone - slower group
Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
OSCA?
U2K Cup - yet to race
BMW E30 - 2 grids
BMW Open - over 2 litre
BMW Open - under 2 litre
Alfa Trofeo
MG Series
Classic Japanese
Sports Cars
ACEs - slower saloons

Plus - Classic Trials - a great stepping stone for the other race classes

[rf84]

That's 38 so far and still counting!

[Carlo]

Sports Saloons is a very well support class in the SI. and of course everyone has forgotten Clubmans racing which quite frankly is where most of the classes previously mentioned actually belong.

[Kiwiboss]

One of the few classes that still provides an outlet for Kiwi ingenuity.
Production Muscle
Northern Muscle

How so???????

Dale M

[John McKechnie]

What ever happened to the Bridgestone Porsche series, there were always hundreds of them there-like HQs.

[ERC]

I don't think Bridgestone are sponsoring it now as we seem to have picked up several ex-Bridgestone runners.

Is it possible to classify the list by area? National; South Island south/north/central, North Island/south/north/central?

Much of that list appears to be North Island north! Maybe some idea of how many current registered participants/cars would tell a better story. I can be accurate with ours and could guess some others. Our own below is cars. 120 drivers.

Supertourers
NZ V8's
NZ V8 Utes
Super Sixes
Holden HQ?
Mini 7?
SS2000
Pro 7
Suzuki Swifts
Production saloons
Central Districts Muscle Cars
Northern Muscle Cars
Production Muscle cars
Historic Muscle Cars
Pre 65's
Honda Cup
Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
Star cars
ERC (Euro) - 1 Arrows Wheels - North Island north/central - 71 cars
ERC (Euro) - 2 AES/TradeZone - North Island north/central - 68 cars
Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
OSCA?
U2K Cup - yet to race
BMW E30 - 2 grids
BMW Open - over 2 litre
BMW Open - under 2 litre
Alfa Trofeo
MG Series
Classic Japanese
Sports Cars
ACEs - slower saloons

Plus - Classic Trials - a great stepping stone for the other race classes

[rf84]

Dale. Read the sports racing car regs at www.sportsracingcars.co.nz/ and tell me if there is any other class in NZ with less prescriptive regs. It is the only class I am aware of where someone can design and build a competitive car from scratch (as distinct from modifying an existing car). One could argue that it would be possible to design and build a Formula Ford or Formula Vee but neither of these classes allow as much scope for innovative design as sports cars.

[John McKechnie]

Firefox could not find it-should that be http://www.sportscarracing.co.nz/

[rf84]

No. www.sportscarracing.co.nz/ works on "Bing". Perhaps just try putting 'sports car racing club NZ inc' into your search engine.

[Russ Noble]

everyone has forgotten Clubmans racing which quite frankly is where most of the classes previously mentioned actually belong.

I agree.

I asked the following question to no avail in the FF thread.......

"Do any clubs in the NI have clubmans meetings?" These are basically mixed saloons grouped by capacity or lap times, plus a F Libre class which gathers together all singleseaters and sports cars in one group?

[Kiwiboss]

It is the only class I am aware of where someone can design and build a competitive car from scratch (as distinct from modifying an existing car)

rf84, OK! sure! got it!!one can start with just some steel, nuts, bolts, etc and build a race car from scratch only limited by his imagination and cheque book!!

Dale M

[Kiwiboss]

I agree.

I asked the following question to no avail in the FF thread.......

"Do any clubs in the NI have clubmans meetings?" These are basically mixed saloons grouped by capacity or lap times, plus a F Libre class which gathers together all singleseaters and sports cars in one group?

Plenty do Russ, i started with Taupo Car Club 20 years ago, they run a clubmans come winter series meetings off season, these are a whole lot of fun with little expense!! im pretty sure Manfeild does as well? these are generally not advertised but details are obtained by belong to that club!! a great way to start into Motorsport. Also back them i use to attend the likes of "Corvette club" and "Ford Muscle Car Club" track days, i believe these still continue, they great for lots of track time!! but at this "Club Level" its a "all in group" so no "fairness" in vehicle performance! I moved on once the excitment at this level waned.

Dale M

[Russ Noble]

Thanks for that Dale. I have carried this discussion across to the FF thread.

[rf84]

Dale. Yep. Ask Jamie-he built a car that held the lap record on the short Taupo clubby circuit for a long time (maybe still does).
If you get a chance have a look at Mark Galvin's "Terra FX" sports racer. Unbelievably fast with a 1300 Suzuki Hayabusa engine and some very ingenious aerodynamic design.