NEW CLASS / SERIES; Historic Sports Sedans. formation meeting.20/04/13 ACC

[George Sheweiry]

Announcing a general meeting for interested parties for the formation of the rules and confirmation of race dates for a new class for historic Sports Sedans at the Auckland car club rooms 20th april at 10am.
The go ahead has been given by the Auckland Car Club for a new series for historic Sports Sedans to run at the 6 ACC race meetings this coming season, starting in September 2013 and ending around April 2014 being 1 day meetings and comprising 1 practice and 3x6 lap races with 3 rounds at Pukekohe and 3 at Hampton downs.
A Basic outline for the class is for the cars to run as they did per the rules and parts of their period, also to allow replicas that also would have to conform to the original specs. Because this would encompass such a varying amount of different rules and of course engine capacities it is suggested that all 3 races be handicap.
If this is something that would interest you then please put your thinking cap on and come along to this meeting as this will determine the rules that the cars and series will run to.
This is intended to be a fun type class where you can run your historic Sports Sedan with the same cars that would have run back in the day, thus placing some more value back into your car and letting the public see some of the old jiggers that were once the top line saloons of NZ motoracing. If enough cars join there is more than a probability that we as a class could run at the next HD festival of speed. Would also love to have input from the immense talent of the great pool of racers current and past on this great motoracing enthusiasts site. Cheers, George.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Announcing a general meeting for interested parties for the formation of the rules and confirmation of race dates for a new class for historic Sports Sedans at the Auckland car club rooms 20th april at 10am.
The go ahead has been given by the Auckland Car Club for a new series for historic Sports Sedans to run at the 6 ACC race meetings this coming season, starting in September 2013 and ending around April 2014 being 1 day meetings and comprising 1 practice and 3x6 lap races with 3 rounds at Pukekohe and 3 at Hampton downs.
A Basic outline for the class is for the cars to run as they did per the rules and parts of their period, also to allow replicas that also would have to conform to the original specs. Because this would encompass such a varying amount of different rules and of course engine capacities it is suggested that all 3 races be handicap.
If this is something that would interest you then please put your thinking cap on and come along to this meeting as this will determine the rules that the cars and series will run to.
This is intended to be a fun type class where you can run your historic Sports Sedan with the same cars that would have run back in the day, thus placing some more value back into your car and letting the public see some of the old jiggers that were once the top line saloons of NZ motoracing. If enough cars join there is more than a probability that we as a class could run at the next HD festival of speed. Would also love to have input from the immense talent of the great pool of racers current and past on this great motoracing enthusiasts site. Cheers, George.Hi there ,here is this word again period ,most historic sports sedans today have parts that are not period fitted.I think it would be great to see the old cars out there again,what about the old all-comers from the past can they race also.

[ERC]

Long overdue. The one class that has been missing from classic grids and as long as people don't take it too seriously and get all anal about it, should be a winner.

[George Sheweiry]

Yes Custaxie50, sorry if I was unclear about that but that is the intention, but just from what year start to year end will be for the competitors who turn up at the inaugural meeting. I am guessing it could be from say 1962 to maybe 1980. We can also limit the races to say 6 laps which will help the cars whos brakes aren't so good. And I think in the early years the tyres weren't so good so just put everyone on slicks but you would probably have to allow the earlier cars to upgrade their oiling systems as the extra grip would no doubt bring with it some extra problems. Also in those earlier cars as we want to see everyone finish I would think an upgrade of cranks, rods, pistons and valves would help with reliability after all we want to see these cars out there caning around the track like they used to.
But again these are just starting suggestions for the people who come along to consider.
Thanks for your comments. George.

[jim short]

George Sports Sedans finished when the Trans Amms took over ,or perhaps to when Bay Park closed, as 1980 puts me out

[Jac Mac]

Hi George, my thoughts on this although I am never likely to compete or be involved.
Dont allow slicks or engine mods like dry sump unless they were fitted to the car in question when it was raced in the form its presented. If you really do intend to make them all handicap races the handicapping will need to reflect the wide disparity in lap times, you might need to reduce to five laps if you find that lap time difference getting out round the 20 second mark, it does not matter whether your racing for chocolate fish or for the whole fishing fleet, in order to keep the cars 'as raced in period' the handicapping must be the incentive to allow virtually anyone who drives their car at close to its maximum in that form to win, I wish you luck.

[George Sheweiry]

Thanks guys, just what we need to hear. I am already adding these suggestions to the list and hopefully by the day of the inaugural meeting I will be armed with most of the things that need to be considered. I will try and post a list of potential cars and competitors tonight that you may be able to help me with contact Ph numbers. Those of you who have seen this and are potential entrants please email or ph me to let me know if you are interested or not. 8276290 or 0274949658 or sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz. Many thanks, George.

[ERC]

As practice is usually a bit fraught, especially with cars that have not run for a while, I'd advise againsts making the first race a handicap.

1) You WILL get sandbaggers
2) Half the field may well end up starting from pit lane!

For the last 17 years, we have never counted the first (scratch race) for points and it then gives you a bit of time to sort out the handicaps and drivers to sort out their cars. We also use a system that retains previous lap times on each track and we then use a mix of previous best time and the current day. It helps reduce the effects of sandbaggers too.

When historically, the best lap time is set in the dry and you get a wet meeting, then we only use the wet times. On a one day meeting, you are flat out sorting out the handicaps in time to draw up the grid sheets and then get it circulated and to the grid marshalls. You will have to provide assistance to the starter(s).

I really hope that you can get a grid for the Festival and that you do run handicaps, as I have given up competing there, as the speed differential made it boring to compete against cars that were lapping slower cars after 5 or 6 laps.

The six lap format is good and if you get good reliability, you can lift it later to 7 or 8 laps if there is a demand.

[kiwi285]

Long overdue. The one class that has been missing from classic grids and as long as people don't take it too seriously and get all anal about it, should be a winner.

Hi George,

I agree with Ray's sentiments exactly. It should prove a winner and would be an incentive to get some of those great old cars trackside again. I hope you get a great response and a heap of enthusiastic racers on board.

Cheers Mike

[Steve Holmes]

I also agree with Ray, this is a fantastic idea, and your long involvement and passion for Sports Sedan racing make you the perfect person for getting this off the ground George.

You said in another thread you've managed to put together a list of 30 cars that could fit. Thats really impressive! Can you post the list at some stage, I'd love to see what cars are still around.

My only thought would be to have the cut-off date at around 1989 or so, as Evan Munt did when he assembled the Historic OSCA group for their 40th anniversary. The US Trans-Am and IMSA tube-frame cars just began appearing in NZ in the late 80s/early 90s, and they changed the outlook on NZ Sports Sedan racing from being creative locally built specials based on the body of a production car to being clones with a tube-frame over which a replica plastic body was mounted. Then Greg Lancaster made these vehicles compulsory and outlawed all the NZ specials around 1993/94. If possible you could maybe look at allowing in the 1980s Sports Sedans but have the cut-off so the tube-frame IMSA/Trans-Am cars aren't included. Just my 2cents worth.

There were a lot of really great Sports Sedans built in NZ in the 80s, this was really the decade where they thrived, and there must be quite a few of them still about.

Anyway George, keep up the good work, and keep us posted. There is a lot of interest in old Sports Sedans, and similar work is being undertaken in Australia to bring out old Sports Sedans also.

[ERC]

Totally agree with Steve. Pre IMSA. IMSA tube frame cars killed the really interesting cars off.

[crunch]

Hi George, my thoughts on this although I am never likely to compete or be involved.
Dont allow slicks or engine mods like dry sump unless they were fitted to the car in question when it was raced in the form its presented.

Couldnt agree more. Dont allow ANY modern modifications, otherwise the door will be kicked open and you will just end up with a bunch of fast modern spec old-looking cars. I loved the days of the Crowe Starlet, Huxford Capri, Algie Charger and that wild Alfa driven from the back seat. Make the cars stay with period spec as they then has an historical value. They were/are plenty fast enough anyway.
Agree with the cut-off of pre-IMSA space frame.
Good luck; will help in any way I can

[Kiwiboss]

There's already a class for these vehicles in place? They've been advertising in the Classic Car Mag for the last year(or so) as a NEW series “All Comers Saloons & Historic Super Sedans” under HRC, say’s to contact Chris Watson or Tony Jack and have sponsorship with Advance Adhesives? or is this something else? a different category of vehicle maybe?

Anyway George, you are so much the car enthusiast you have my total support and this is a great idea, myself and Steve have talked about a PURE “Historic Sports Sedan” class for some time but both he and i have our hands full with HMC(and work). You’ll have problems with what some think is “ Historically” and/or “Period” correct when it comes to wheels and other components used back when these vehicles roamed the tracks but stick to you guns, some on this forum can’t get there head around why we have HMC vehicles on period 15” wheels and tyres when this is what they used!! Anyway, good luck and as Crunch says above, we here to offer any advice and help whether needed or not!! but it may pay to contact Chris Watson and/or Tony Jack to see what they’re up too with this other group.

Would totally luv to see this at the Festival

Dale M

[Steve Holmes]

Without wanting to bombard you with stuff you probably don't want to have to worry about at this early stage George, one of the issues you may find with Historic Sports Sedans is that one car will have raced for several seasons, being updated as it went. This is fairly unique to Sports Sedan type vehicles, as they could be constantly chopped and changed around to keep pace, unlike other categories. So depending on how anal you want to be about the cars being period correct, you might want to consider owners pin-point a period in their cars history, and present it to that point in time. This is what the Historic Australian Group C and A touring car category does. They require the cars be presented, both mechanically and aesthetically to a specific year, and even a specific race if possible.

A good case in point is the Wayne Huxford V8 Capri. That car first appeared in 1979, fitted with a 5 litre Morand Chevy from David Oxtons Begg F5000, full floor pan, and relatively mild flares. It was continuously developed throughout the 1980s and kept being updated until about 1997, to keep pace with the new Trans-Am tube-frame cars that were predominant by that stage. By 1997, about the only thing left from the car that debuted in 1979 was the roof! Therefore, if you have a cut-off date as per your earlier post of 1980, then Huxfords Capri would fit, because it first raced in 1979. But on the other hand, only the roof remains from the car as it raced in 1979.

[Bruce302]

I'll see you there George.

Bruce.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Without wanting to bombard you with stuff you probably don't want to have to worry about at this early stage George, one of the issues you may find with Historic Sports Sedans is that one car will have raced for several seasons, being updated as it went. This is fairly unique to Sports Sedan type vehicles, as they could be constantly chopped and changed around to keep pace, unlike other categories. So depending on how anal you want to be about the cars being period correct, you might want to consider owners pin-point a period in their cars history, and present it to that point in time. This is what the Historic Australian Group C and A touring car category does. They require the cars be presented, both mechanically and aesthetically to a specific year, and even a specific race if possible.

A good case in point is the Wayne Huxford V8 Capri. That car first appeared in 1979, fitted with a 5 litre Morand Chevy from David Oxtons Begg F5000, full floor pan, and relatively mild flares. It was continuously developed throughout the 1980s and kept being updated until about 1997, to keep pace with the new Trans-Am tube-frame cars that were predominant by that stage. By 1997, about the only thing left from the car that debuted in 1979 was the roof! Therefore, if you have a cut-off date as per your earlier post of 1980, then Huxfords Capri would fit, because it first raced in 1979. But on the other hand, only the roof remains from the car as it raced in 1979.See its started before you get things moving,Wayne Huxford car does not fit in and others like his.As you said before-Period cars etc only.

[George Sheweiry]

Thanks guys for your offers.
These are the cars I have come up with so far.
George Sheweiry ex Richards Boss Mustang
Graeme Addis contacted Valiant Charger
Barry Algie contacted Holden Manaro
John Learmonth contacted Algie Monza
Craig Stacey contacted Nazer Victor
Paul McCarthy contacted Zakspeed Escort replica
Bob Homewood contacted Escort
Bruce Manon declined Escort Turbo
Roger Townsend contacted Cologne Capri
John McCechnie contacted Bunce Monaro
Shane Windelburn contacted Pontiac
Warrick Grey Viva
Gordon Burr Algie Alfetta/Cologne Capri
Wayne Huxford Capri chev
Graham Barnes ex Bullivant Capri chev
ex Brennan Escort chev
Tony Boyden ex Coppins Camaro
Tim Buckley ex Gary Sprague XD
Roger Williams ex Thompson Mercedes chev
Dennis Running ex Wills RX8
Rod Grimrod Escort
ex Parkes Marina
ex Ian Night Escort chev
Black mk2 Zakspeed Escort
ex Tulloch Capri Chev
ex Osborne Capri Chev
ex Crowe/Freeth Starlet
ex Lancaster Victor
ex Mossman Viva chev
ex Mossman Consul
Green mk1 2dr Cortina 351
ex Jones Commodore
ex Harrington Torana chev
ex Leckie Capri chev
ex Leckie/Benbrook Lancer
ex Findlay Datsun sss
Fiat 850 V8
ex Lathrope Escort
ex Rutherford RX2

Then any of the earlier Allcomer/ BNSW cars would have qualified to run in sports sedans
Craig Stacey ex Fahey Anglia
Bruce Thompson ex Coppins Firebird
Tony Antunovich ex Marwood

[George Sheweiry]

Don't know what happened there, I had them all in columns and then the last car I couldn't write Camaro!! anyway I shall carry on from there.
John Tomich ex Segedin Mustang, Mike Johns ex Boyle coke Viva, Halliday Escort, Richards Escort Fahey FVA escort, Nazer Escort, Millen Jag, Custaxie 2,Dawson 67 Mustang, Riley 65 Mustang, Cook Datsun Sunny, Dawson Z28 Camaro. Then there are the Osca Cars, Ian Munts Capri chev, Clyde Collins Cortina Boss, Clyde Collins XW falcon,
OOps!! forgot PDL 1 and 2. and Meadows corvette. You get the picture. and 98% of those cars still exist So please the owners of those cars get in touch if you are interested. Cheers, George.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Don't know what happened there, I had them all in columns and then the last car I couldn't write Camaro!! anyway I shall carry on from there.
John Tomich ex Segedin Mustang, Mike Johns ex Boyle coke Viva, Halliday Escort, Richards Escort Fahey FVA escort, Nazer Escort, Millen Jag, Custaxie 2,Dawson 67 Mustang, Riley 65 Mustang, Cook Datsun Sunny, Dawson Z28 Camaro. Then there are the Osca Cars, Ian Munts Capri chev, Clyde Collins Cortina Boss, Clyde Collins XW falcon,
OOps!! forgot PDL 1 and 2. and Meadows corvette. You get the picture. and 98% of those cars still exist So please the owners of those cars get in touch if you are interested. Cheers, George.dont know about the PDL 2 or custaxie 2, dont get me wrong its great to see them out there on the track but see its that word again ,period cars only as they raced all those years back

[ERC]

What a fantastic list!!!! A decent grid of these cars would be a real spectator attraction and could well attract more spectator interest than the F5000s! I say that not to run down F5000's, far from it, but from a casual watcher's point of view, the sheer variety of the machinery, in size and shape, has real appeal.

One or two of those cars are now worth a shed load of money so you'd really want due respect shown, which is why this would have to be a gentlemanly series - another choccy fish group.

[Steve Holmes]

What a fantastic list!!!! A decent grid of these cars would be a real spectator attraction and could well attract more spectator interest than the F5000s! I say that not to run down F5000's, far from it, but from a casual watcher's point of view, the sheer variety of the machinery, in size and shape, has real appeal.

One or two of those cars are now worth a shed load of money so you'd really want due respect shown, which is why this would have to be a gentlemanly series - another choccy fish group.

I agree 100% Ray, Historic Sports Sedans would provide a great variety of cars of all shapes and sizes. And furthermore, many people will remember the cars themselves and will enjoy seeing them out running again.

[Steve Holmes]

dont know about the PDL 2 or custaxie 2, dont get me wrong its great to see them out there on the track but see its that word again ,period cars only as they raced all those years back

I thought PDL II was pretty original? Its had a couple of rebuilds, and I know they've had a new rollcage fitted for safety reasons, but overall a good portion of the original car it still there. It even still wears its original BBS wheels.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks guys for your offers.
These are the cars I have come up with so far.
George Sheweiry ex Richards Boss Mustang
Graeme Addis contacted Valiant Charger
Barry Algie contacted Holden Manaro
John Learmonth contacted Algie Monza
Craig Stacey contacted Nazer Victor
Paul McCarthy contacted Zakspeed Escort replica
Bob Homewood contacted Escort
Bruce Manon declined Escort Turbo
Roger Townsend contacted Cologne Capri
John McCechnie contacted Bunce Monaro
Shane Windelburn contacted Pontiac
Warrick Grey Viva
Gordon Burr Algie Alfetta/Cologne Capri
Wayne Huxford Capri chev
Graham Barnes ex Bullivant Capri chev
ex Brennan Escort chev
Tony Boyden ex Coppins Camaro
Tim Buckley ex Gary Sprague XD
Roger Williams ex Thompson Mercedes chev
Dennis Running ex Wills RX8
Rod Grimrod Escort
ex Parkes Marina
ex Ian Night Escort chev
Black mk2 Zakspeed Escort
ex Tulloch Capri Chev
ex Osborne Capri Chev
ex Crowe/Freeth Starlet
ex Lancaster Victor
ex Mossman Viva chev
ex Mossman Consul
Green mk1 2dr Cortina 351
ex Jones Commodore
ex Harrington Torana chev
ex Leckie Capri chev
ex Leckie/Benbrook Lancer
ex Findlay Datsun sss
Fiat 850 V8
ex Lathrope Escort
ex Rutherford RX2

Then any of the earlier Allcomer/ BNSW cars would have qualified to run in sports sedans
Craig Stacey ex Fahey Anglia
Bruce Thompson ex Coppins Firebird
Tony Antunovich ex Marwood

Awesome! Add to that list the Alec Dickie/Gary Jenkins Chevy Victor, Kevin Ryan/Avon Hyde etc Chevy Capri, Jac Mac/Rod McElrea V8 MkIV Cortina, Jac Mac MkII Cortina V8, Don Grindley RX7 Buick, etc.

There were actually two Oldsmobile Starlets built by Trevor Crowe. The first one went to Jackson French and was later upgraded with the same flare kit as the second car. The second car was sold to Rodger Freeth and also had its body work changed. Both cars still exist.

Some of the cars you listed no longer exist, such as the Leckie Chevy Capri, Halliday/Osborne etc Capri, Lancaster Victor, Mossman Viva, Hyde/Jones etc Commodore, Harrington Torana, Clyde Collins MkIII Cortina, Clyde Collins XW Falcon. However, my understanding is the Hallidays are building a replica of their old Capri, and Clyde Collins and his son are building a replica of Clyde's V8 Cortina.

[kiwi285]

Awesome! Add to that list the Alec Dickie/Gary Jenkins Chevy Victor, Kevin Ryan/Avon Hyde etc Chevy Capri, Jac Mac/Rod McElrea V8 MkIV Cortina, Jac Mac MkII Cortina V8, Don Grindley RX7 Buick, etc.

There were actually two Oldsmobile Starlets built by Trevor Crowe. The first one went to Jackson French and was later upgraded with the same flare kit as the second car. The second car was sold to Rodger Freeth and also had its body work changed. Both cars still exist.

Some of the cars you listed no longer exist, such as the Leckie Chevy Capri, Halliday/Osborne etc Capri, Lancaster Victor, Mossman Viva, Hyde/Jones etc Commodore, Harrington Torana, Clyde Collins MkIII Cortina, Clyde Collins XW Falcon. However, my understanding is the Hallidays are building a replica of their old Capri, and Clyde Collins and his son are building a replica of Clyde's V8 Cortina.

What a mouthwatering prospect a grid full of those cars would provide. Hurry up George - we can't wait.
I believe that Ralph Mossman has an Oldsmobile Cutlass - would that fit in this class ?

[John McKechnie]

Lot of variation in tyre types there.

[CUSTAXIE50]

I thought PDL II was pretty original? Its had a couple of rebuilds, and I know they've had a new rollcage fitted for safety reasons, but overall a good portion of the original car it still there. It even still wears its original BBS wheels.The thing with the PDL 2 is they used some parts from a road car would that be right,my view is that it does not have a road going car floor to it.I do understand that there may be a number of cars that will need to update the rollcage etc

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, PDL II was basically built to IMSA specs in 1976. Remember, Red Dawson and Allan Moffat had already raced IMSA DeKon Monza's in NZ a year earlier, and Art McKee had another IMSA Monza on the way from the US, and all these cars utilised a full tube-frame, so the PDL team could see this was where the technology was heading, so built the PDL II to similar specs.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Yep, PDL II was basically built to IMSA specs in 1976. Remember, Red Dawson and Allan Moffat had already raced IMSA DeKon Monza's in NZ a year earlier, and Art McKee had another IMSA Monza on the way from the US, and all these cars utilised a full tube-frame, so the PDL team could see this was where the technology was heading, so built the PDL II to similar specs.Yes Steve i know all about the cars you have just talked about.The point is they are not the old Sport Sedans that we have come to know,from day one they have always been race cars.My view was George was wanting to start a new class up for sport sedans ,that do not have a full tube frame to them have i got this wrong.

[crunch]

Brent Willis Commodore?

[Steve Holmes]

Yes Steve i know all about the cars you have just talked about.The point is they are not the old Sport Sedans that we have come to know,from day one they have always been race cars.My view was George was wanting to start a new class up for sport sedans ,that do not have a full tube frame to them have i got this wrong.

I've not spoken personally to George about this Norm, so can only go off what he has posted here, but looking at his list of cars, it seems any car that raced in Allcomers, Group 2, Group 5, BNSW, ShellSport, OSCA, and Sports Sedans is being invited to run with him. This would include the early tube-frame cars, which you rightly say are not really based on road vehicles at all, rather they're built from scratch as race cars but with sections of road car body fitted over top. But these cars were legal in NZ, and raced in NZ during the period he has mentioned, so have to assume these cars are included. Its not just the PDL II and DeKon Monzas that were tube-frame cars. There were several NZ built tube-frame Sports Sedans built in the 1980s prior to the arrival in the late '80s of the US built IMSA and Trans-Am tube-frame cars.

[Steve Holmes]

Brent Willis Commodore?

That car seems to have gone AWOL Crunch. I know Brett was on here some months back advertising he'd like to know its whereabouts. To the best of my knowledge it still hasn't surfaced.

[jim short]

Brett Willis,I notice George left out the Jag xjs{a car Muscle car not called as such}my Porsche that ran for 5 years and added some that never ran .The millen jag !!never a Sport Sedan.. Not very hard to go through the Sports Sedan records all the cars were listed and if they ran as a Sport Sedan they are a Sport Sedan,, Now please no more phone calls its now in black and white
Brent Willis Commodore?

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, really good point Jim, your Porsche should definitely be included. It raced for several years in Sports Sedans, all over NZ, and supported the North Island during the North/South Challenge matches. Its definitely a Sports Sedan.

Re the Jag XJS, who raced this car? Does anyone have photos of it?

[jim short]

Mike Houragan and Allan Prince I ran against it at least twice
Yep, really good point Jim, your Porsche should definitely be included. It raced for several years in Sports Sedans, all over NZ, and supported the North Island during the North/South Challenge matches. Its definitely a Sports Sedan.

Re the Jag XJS, who raced this car? Does anyone have photos of it?

[John McKechnie]

Lawrence Jones ran a white XJS V12 in the Muscle cars in the early 90 to mid 90s- does that answer you Jim?
Mike Hourigan who sold his XJS V12 to Les Parkinson, this ran Wellington race and others at that time.
Understand that Clive Gott ran the ex Millen jag in Sports Sedans

[CUSTAXIE50]

Brett Willis,I notice George left out the Jag xjs{a car Muscle car not called as such}my Porsche that ran for 5 years and added some that never ran .The millen jag !!never a Sport Sedan.. Not very hard to go through the Sports Sedan records all the cars were listed and if they ran as a Sport Sedan they are a Sport Sedan,, Now please no more phone calls its now in black and whiteTell me a little about your car Jim that ran as a Sport Sedan ,maybe a photo and how it turned into a Sport Sedan.

[crunch]

Wasnt the Prince XJS a Group A car with "The Package Express" sponsorship?

[Powder]

Mike Houragan and Allan Prince I ran against it at least twice

I believe this car is still around. It was with Angus Fogg about 18mths ago for some work. It was hoped to be on display at the BMW Festival at Hampton Downs last year, but I didn't see it there.

[jim short]

Over thirty years ago 4 Porsche owners joined together to find a race 911, Mark Scott ex Nicky Lauder mechanic found a special one off 911 built for Mark Grouo..'.ky in Poland a rally car ,it was converted to a circuit car and ran and won some big events in the UK 5th in a 24 hr race in Belguim,ect,.It arrived in NZ 1981?? I was invited to join the group after drinking plenty off wine ,and driving all over the North Shore in their latest 911 turbo, 928 ect to sweeten me up {what a joke},Ray Baker even brought a new reel mower and a couple cycles for his kids{Dean Am. Cup} and sister, to help me raise my share The car was so quick the other Porsche owners were not happy to run against it ,was strange the Jag club that the Porsche club had little time for were only to happy to have it run. At this time Sports Sedans were scratching to find eneough cars to hold a race and I think it was Paul Burnett {charger} that arranged for an entry,As to the rest get Rod ,Brett,Bob Tony, Ross, Ian, Barry, John,to tell not forgetting Brian for repainting it,as I dont wish to be a smart arse.

[AMCO72]

Indeed Powder, this car is still around. It is with FOGG Motorsport in Auckland having a very extensive, and I have no doubt expensive restoration. The car was in a very poor state when it arrived at Angus' workshop. Over its years of racing it had become very loose and floppy, with lots of English spot welds having broken away. The roll cage was a very basic affair and this has been attended to.

You tend to think, or maybe you don't, that these quality cars were well constructed in the factory, but think again. The sheer weight of all the components puts huge strain on the bodywork.....the front axle assembly weighs about as much as the Mini!!!!!Driven quietly around English roads they may have been alright, but in the rough and tumble of racing they didn't stand up. Of course attempts to lighten things over the years hasn't helped.

I had a look at the body after it had been stripped of all its components, and the number of small pressings that were spotted together to make up the complete shell defies belief. No wonder it fell to pieces!

Currently the car, with a new roll-frame is in Moselle Panel and Paint getting the panel-work done and painted. It will still be white, as it has always been in its racing days, but will be a much tighter and together machine when finished.

[John McKechnie]

Les Parkinson sold this white XJS to Peter Koeford who hardly used it at all over 15 years.
Peter told me a man in the SI was buying it.
Would not have thought that it had done a lot of racing

[PhotoSmith]

Wasnt the Prince XJS a Group A car with "The Package Express" sponsorship?

Yes, from around 1986, B&H series, photos from Pukehohe & Baypark rounds, somewhere i have more
from the second wellington street race......

[AMCO72]

Correct John, a 'man' from Christchurch has bought it, but it has been entrusted to Angus for the restoration.

Are you suggesting that the bodywork shouldn't be floppy because it has not done much racing? You should know that the number of racing miles a car has, or has not done, does not equate to a perfect body.......ie very little racing equals a perfect body!!!!!!! My own experience at HD bears that out.......I had 'raced' for less than 200 meters, and I ended up with a car with less than a perfect body!
Am I making myself clear here???

Also I think the roll-frame [theres that word again] was very under engineered and needed bringing up to new specifications. Maybe it got away with it in the old days, and we don't need to go into that argument again after being exhaustively 'discussed' in another thread.

[AMCO72]

My God, the arguments are starting already and the new class hasn't even got off the ground........

When is a Muscle Car NOT a Muscle Car ?
When is a Sports Sedan NOT a Sports Sedan ?

Is the thinking here that if a car competed in a sports sedan class 30 years ago, then it IS a sports sedan.
Sounds as though defining exactly WHAT a sports sedan is, is going to be harder than defining what a Muscle car is!

And Jim you bring up an interesting point........30 years on these drivers are obviously 30 years older......and slower......and stiffer, in all the wrong parts! Are they going to be up to the job of piloting these wild and woolly machines? And don't tell me they are just going to do demo laps behind a safety car!!.......Yeh right.

Also Jim, you must have had to sell a lot of mowers and cycles to pay for your share in the Porsche........unless of course your shop markup was exorbitant!!!!!

[John McKechnie]

Correct John, a 'man' from Christchurch has bought it, but it has been entrusted to Angus for the restoration.

Are you suggesting that the bodywork shouldn't be floppy because it has not done much racing? You should know that the number of racing miles a car has, or has not done, does not equate to a perfect body.......ie very little racing equals a perfect body!!!!!!! My own experience at HD bears that out.......I had 'raced' for less than 200 meters, and I ended up with a car with less than a perfect body!
Am I making myself clear here???

Also I think the roll-frame [theres that word again] was very under engineered and needed bringing up to new specifications. Maybe it got away with it in the old days, and we don't need to go into that argument again after being exhaustively 'discussed' in another thread.

Gerald- just putting up some info on Jags, didnt think something that simple would push your buttons.

[jim short]

Amco without knowing ,I would bet the Mini cost a lot more than I paid, I mean 5 owners into one car and I know you find it strange but I enjoyed every lap ,first out last in for practise regardless as to where I finished in the race,even on my own ,the exhaust sound at 8000 ,not seen that often would make your hair stand up on end ,only 2.8 twin plug, webers 260 BHP no match for the V8s but off the line and under brakes just leave them for dead at BP,only once in five years did it get 4 new tyres at the same time,mrs brown now

[AMCO72]

I think half the trouble with the XJS is that it probably hasn't been stripped down as far as it is now since it was built. When everything was out of it, you could actually lift the front of the body several centimeters without the body from the screen backwards moving!!!!
Superficially the car looked ok but it was infact seriously fragile.

The roll frame that is in it now ties everything together very nicely.

So am I right in saying that this new class is for cars that actually raced as sports sedans during the time frame suggested? In other words I cant build a new one to the specifications and join the group as I can in HMC.

[Dave Silcock]

Lawrence Jones ran a white XJS V12 in the Muscle cars in the early 90 to mid 90s- does that answer you Jim?
Mike Hourigan who sold his XJS V12 to Les Parkinson, this ran Wellington race and others at that time.
Understand that Clive Gott ran the ex Millen jag in Sports Sedans

Now here is where we can see a whole lot of grief amongst you lot that think a car with "history' is more desirable than a new built old car. The ex Clive Gott car does not exsist, that was supposedly destroyed by Mike John, sent to the crusher I belive. The car he now insists is the ex Millen car does not exsist either, wrong wheels, no Mk1 escort flares, wrong color etc. The car I built and raced no longer exsist either,if you consider the car as I saw it at Highland Park at Easter. The wheels and body are the wrong color, it has a louvered bonnet, the front wheel arches are the wrong shape, the seats and steering wheel are incorrect and it has a roll cage in it. Not to mention the Japanese 5 speed gearbox and the Willwood brakes. Not a glimmer of nostalgia did I feel as I walked by it. So how is this going to fit into this new class? And this is only a car I know a bit about, what about all the other cars on the list?

[Dave Silcock]

Indeed Powder, this car is still around. It is with FOGG Motorsport in Auckland having a very extensive, and I have no doubt expensive restoration. The car was in a very poor state when it arrived at Angus' workshop. Over its years of racing it had become very loose and floppy, with lots of English spot welds having broken away. The roll cage was a very basic affair and this has been attended to.

You tend to think, or maybe you don't, that these quality cars were well constructed in the factory, but think again. The sheer weight of all the components puts huge strain on the bodywork.....the front axle assembly weighs about as much as the Mini!!!!!Driven quietly around English roads they may have been alright, but in the rough and tumble of racing they didn't stand up. Of course attempts to lighten things over the years hasn't helped.

I had a look at the body after it had been stripped of all its components, and the number of small pressings that were spotted together to make up the complete shell defies belief. No wonder it fell to pieces!

Currently the car, with a new roll-frame is in Moselle Panel and Paint getting the panel-work done and painted. It will still be white, as it has always been in its racing days, but will be a much tighter and together machine when finished.

You are quite correct about those XJS's. The front end of them is as weak as any thing I have seen. Compared to the stucture in a Mk2 one would have to say the engineering is irresonsible!! Mind you in my opinion they are the worst car Jaguar ever made except for the V12 E type.

[Rod Grimwood]

Lot of variation in tyre types there.

So what, nor are the drivers the same size, or look the same, thats what was good about the Sports Sedan boy's (and Girls, now there are the pretty ones) they where like their machinery, all different until it was pack up time and the tent became centre of attraction.
I have not read past this tongue in cheek comment yet (I hope it was Mr John boy as the SS boys stick together).

Go for it Biscuit, got my support and will be intouch with you as off right now to meet in Auckland and spend weekend with Mr Willis (birthday) Ralphy and some others from south island and all over the place. So there will be discussion.
Could be more welding and fabricating coming up.

[Rod Grimwood]

Brent Willis Commodore?


Correct Crunch and a load more that ended up half framed etc.

Custaxie, remember you are dealing with Sports Sedan boys, who were always kind of frowned on because of the different way they did things and i can remember some days when there was grids with cars that were built just about any way possible (some good, some not so good) Think if George keeps like old school and there is no points, flowers, or hay bales presented, all can go and run their car.

I will be intouch with George as was on Original committee with SS for awhile along with others who are still around (and have cars in their sheds)

[Rod Grimwood]

Tell me a little about your car Jim that ran as a Sport Sedan ,maybe a photo and how it turned into a Sport Sedan.


As I said in last couple of posts, we ran everything and anything, like even an Escort with a Pacific wing on it and then you zip into pits take wing off change rear springs and put on other boot with little spoiler and out you go in clubmans, clever buggers those SS boy's

Please don't turn this into a 'how can you run that, it wasn't like that thread' Sports Sedans catered for a wide variety of cars and people. Jag yes remember it, Jum in his Modified VW followed it a few times (nice black with red stripes paint), plastic Corvettes, Minis, Vivas (even one crazy one with V8) all types, in fact if it ran, had 4 wheels, you got a run. I hope that is what George is looking at.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Correct Crunch and a load more that ended up half framed etc.

Custaxie, remember you are dealing with Sports Sedan boys, who were always kind of frowned on because of the different way they did things and i can remember some days when there was grids with cars that were built just about any way possible (some good, some not so good) Think if George keeps like old school and there is no points, flowers, or hay bales presented, all can go and run their car.

I will be intouch with George as was on Original committee with SS for awhile along with others who are still around (and have cars in their sheds) Rod i do understand what you are saying,so i could go and build any car like custaxie 1 and they would let me race it with others that may be out there.

[John McKechnie]

Now here is where we can see a whole lot of grief amongst you lot that think a car with "history' is more desirable than a new built old car. The ex Clive Gott car does not exsist, that was supposedly destroyed by Mike John, sent to the crusher I belive. The car he now insists is the ex Millen car does not exsist either, wrong wheels, no Mk1 escort flares, wrong color etc. The car I built and raced no longer exsist either,if you consider the car as I saw it at Highland Park at Easter. The wheels and body are the wrong color, it has a louvered bonnet, the front wheel arches are the wrong shape, the seats and steering wheel are incorrect and it has a roll cage in it. Not to mention the Japanese 5 speed gearbox and the Willwood brakes. Not a glimmer of nostalgia did I feel as I walked by it. So how is this going to fit into this new class? And this is only a car I know a bit about, what about all the other cars on the list?

Dave-just to make sure we are on the same page here. Jim said the ex Millen car was not a sports saloon.
I simply said that I understood that Clive Gott raced it in this class when he set the engine back, welded up the back doors and had a removable front., this was 80s
All this happened before the body was destroyed. I also know the body was destroyed.
Do you know the classes Clive ran it in before the body was destroyed?
I do agree with your view.

[jim short]

Good question ,I saw Clive run it at Taccoc to start then not sure after, The Custaxie I never saw it run ,did Robie not race in the USA???and bring some Yank tank back to race???

[Dave Silcock]

John, no offence taken, Jim stated that the ex Millen car was not a sports saloon and I agree as it never raced in that class when it was in the form as Millen raced it. It simply was a different car. Clive ran it for a time in classic racing in the form he purchased it in from whoever and then did to it as you have described and ran it in sports saloons. So if it, the Clive Gott car, was to be raced in this new class a new one would have to be built. I don't have a problem with that as long as it is the same and everybody knows it. Are we on the same page?

[Paul Wilkinson]

So am I right in saying that this new class is for cars that actually raced as sports sedans during the time frame suggested? In other words I cant build a new one to the specifications and join the group as I can in HMC.

I think there are a few older 'club' cars that could be built into 'period' Sports Sedans and why not? All you would need is a process whereby an owner would notify their intentions on how they would modify the car and the committee could let them know if the car would be eligible in that form. I reckon that with a few sensible rules that don't allow 'new'-builds to overshadow the cars we're trying to coax out of retirement, this could be a hugely successful class.

[John McKechnie]

John, no offence taken, Jim stated that the ex Millen car was not a sports saloon and I agree as it never raced in that class when it was in the form as Millen raced it. It simply was a different car. Clive ran it for a time in classic racing in the form he purchased it in from whoever and then did to it as you have described and ran it in sports saloons. So if it, the Clive Gott car, was to be raced in this new class a new one would have to be built. I don't have a problem with that as long as it is the same and everybody knows it. Are we on the same page?

Absolutely 100% Dave, always a pleasure doing details with you.
Superb clarity here on its history

[AMCO72]

Wonder if we could run the Amco Mini in a Sports Sedan class.....was ex BNSW car after all !!!!!!!!!!!!

Did Sports Sedans morph into that strange class.....trans-am lites? They seemed to be neither your arse nor your elbow.

Rod does not want this thread turning into a 'you cant run that' sort thread. Yet surely it is better that this all gets thrashed out here, and with all the opinions on here, some of, if not all of the misconceptions will be sorted out, before the boys get out their welding torches!!

[jim short]

Why is it so hard to understand ,the muscle cars are very fussy about what runs in their eyes,so any Sports Sedan that ran as such is in ,if it did not run as a Sports Sedan its out , .Amco the Minis were very strong when the S.Sedans were running and for one I think it would be great to see them{the minis}running around during the lunch break for example

[AMCO72]

What are you saying Jim.....that a Mini MIGHT beat a Sports Sedan, and if so you would only like to see them running around in the lunch break.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul Wilkinson]

So they'll start with a small group of cars that can never get any bigger? I suppose that's okay if the intention is for a couple of novelty races a year.

[jim short]

Paul if you are so keen I am shure there will some for sale, why do want to change historey or are you mates of Chris Finnlyson ??

[jim short]

What are you saying Jim.....that a Mini MIGHT beat a Sports Sedan, and if so you would only like to see them running around in the lunch break.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amco you know there is nothing beter than enjoying a good meal ,and to be able to see and hear all those Minis buzzing around at the same time,as to the speed of the Mini ,cant say I know but Roger Freeth worked out at 8000Rpm in 5th was 168 mph,,dont think I would enjoy that speed in a Mini then again perhaps I would

[aussiemonza]

Would the restored ex Art McKee IMSA Monza be OK for this Series in 1977 spec?

[CUSTAXIE50]

Would the restored ex Art McKee IMSA Monza be OK for this Series in 1977 spec? NO.

[John McKechnie]

If there are no rules yet, why would this not be allowed?
This is a well known South Island car

[Jac Mac]

All getting a bit ahead of things here, George suggested that the initial meeting at the ACC & who actually fronts up with intent to compete/take part in the series will largely decide the format for the series.
If the handicapping is spot on & Gerald or Angus take part in the Mini I would love to hear the comments from within the Mini as they glance in the mirror about 200 meters from the finish line, the view should be about 4 rows of wall to wall thunder....

[Steve Holmes]

Would the restored ex Art McKee IMSA Monza be OK for this Series in 1977 spec?

Yes I would have thought so Rowan, based on the list George posted. Your car should almost certainly be accepted. By the way, how are you progressing with it?

[bry3500]

Great list. If only we could somehow combine it with the Group U Aussie Sports Sedans.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Yes I would have thought so Rowan, based on the list George posted. Your car should almost certainly be accepted. By the way, how are you progressing with it?Yes i have looked at the list George put up ,cars like Graham Barnes capri chev are the ones to run in this new class,but this list says you can run any bag of bolts.

[George Sheweiry]

Sorry guys, went out to Puke today (free pass from my bro, Clive at boc gases for food and bevvys in boc hospitality tent), so haven't checked this but big sorry to Jim who was always there in the big black Porsche but while I was writing the list got interrupted and stuffed up!! Sorry to anyone else who is not on there but you will be warmly welcomed to the meeting. Wow what fantastic discussion about what car is eligible and what isn't and that is just the sort of thing we need to hear to be able to form this class. With more thought on the matter my own idea would be along the lines of cars that want to compete would need to submit photos, drawings, magazine articles etc of the car from the period they were wanting it to represent, and from people I have talked to this seems to be the consensus. From a lot of other classes I have run in it has always annoyed me that I had to run my cars to a set of rules that was either just thrust upon us or rules that were made by people who had plenty to say but never ever fronted to race. So another idea for the formation of the class is to do voting by points like 2 points per vote from people who have already raced and 1 point from the people who have never raced before. Also to protect all the members and their valuable cars a 3 knocks and your out or 1 race stand down , whatever. but I think you see where I am coming from. Of course the wider the inclusion of categories the more likely it will be to have a good field. The minimum vehicles for a stand alone race for the ACC is 10 or we get combined with another suitable class on that day which I think is fair enough on the car clubs side of things. Anyway great discussions Guys , keep up the good work. Cheers, George.

[aussiemonza]

NO.

It is the genuine car?

[jim short]

[ I forgive you George I thought you were stiil upset from me jumping you at the start,or did I dream that bit?? I love the line Rules thrust upon us by those that never front,,how true,, I am all excited and started training today ,made the letterbox and back in one go ,, bring on to,,morrow QUOTE=George Sheweiry;27323]Sorry guys, went out to Puke today (free pass from my bro, Clive at boc gases for food and bevvys in boc hospitality tent), so haven't checked this but big sorry to Jim who was always there in the big black Porsche but while I was writing the list got interrupted and stuffed up!! Sorry to anyone else who is not on there but you will be warmly welcomed to the meeting. Wow what fantastic discussion about what car is eligible and what isn't and that is just the sort of thing we need to hear to be able to form this class. With more thought on the matter my own idea would be along the lines of cars that want to compete would need to submit photos, drawings, magazine articles etc of the car from the period they were wanting it to represent, and from people I have talked to this seems to be the consensus. From a lot of other classes I have run in it has always annoyed me that I had to run my cars to a set of rules that was either just thrust upon us or rules that were made by people who had plenty to say but never ever fronted to race. So another idea for the formation of the class is to do voting by points like 2 points per vote from people who have already raced and 1 point from the people who have never raced before. Also to protect all the members and their valuable cars a 3 knocks and your out or 1 race stand down , whatever. but I think you see where I am coming from. Of course the wider the inclusion of categories the more likely it will be to have a good field. The minimum vehicles for a stand alone race for the ACC is 10 or we get combined with another suitable class on that day which I think is fair enough on the car clubs side of things. Anyway great discussions Guys , keep up the good work. Cheers, George.[/QUOTE]

[Steve Holmes]

Yes i have looked at the list George put up ,cars like Graham Barnes capri chev are the ones to run in this new class,but this list says you can run any bag of bolts.

OK, before you start insulting people, calling their cars a "bag of bolts", try doing your homework first. The car aussiemonza is referring to is the Grant King Chevy Monza built in the US to race in IMSA. It competed alongside the early DeKon Monza's, including DeKon 1001, which was eventually purchased by Red Dawson and shipped to New Zealand. The King Monza was purchased in 1976 by reigning Castrol GTX champion Art McKee to race in the 1977 New Zealand Saloon Car Championship.

It raced alongside the Sidchrome Mustang, Nazer Victor, Bill Leckie Capri, Dawson Monza, PDL Mustang II etc, and is an important piece of NZ motorsport history.

McKee sold the car following the 1977 season to an Australian buyer, and it raced in Australian Sports Sedan events for the next 20 - 25 years, before being purchased by Rowan (aussiemonza) who has been in the process of restoring it back to its Art McKee guise as it raced in NZ. Its a significant car with great Sports Sedan history. Nuff said.

17709

[John McKechnie]

And it would be huge to see this magic car racing here again.
You have a good fan base here in Kiwiland , Rowan,

[crunch]

My personal plea would be for the cars to run as they were in period. No modern modifications, but enjoy what they were...a piece of history that is as exciting to watch today as it was way back then when I was a spotty faced teenage flag marshall at Manfield.

[CUSTAXIE50]

OK, before you start insulting people, calling their cars a "bag of bolts", try doing your homework first. The car aussiemonza is referring to is the Grant King Chevy Monza built in the US to race in IMSA. It competed alongside the early DeKon Monza's, including DeKon 1001, which was eventually purchased by Red Dawson and shipped to New Zealand. The King Monza was purchased in 1976 by reigning Castrol GTX champion Art McKee to race in the 1977 New Zealand Saloon Car Championship.

It raced alongside the Sidchrome Mustang, Nazer Victor, Bill Leckie Capri, Dawson Monza, PDL Mustang II etc, and is an important piece of NZ motorsport history.

McKee sold the car following the 1977 season to an Australian buyer, and it raced in Australian Sports Sedan events for the next 20 - 25 years, before being purchased by Rowan (aussiemonza) who has been in the process of restoring it back to its Art McKee guise as it raced in NZ. Its a significant car with great Sports Sedan history. Nuff said.

17709Im not insulting people at all Steve,calling their cars a bag of bolts its just a saying i think most would know that.over the years a lot of drivers have said this to me about their cars.I dont think anyone on here is going to get to upset about it.Look at it this way 45 years ago thats all some had, and put their bag of bolts together to make a race car.

[AMCO72]

Now that is one sharp looking car. We have another one in NZ, imported by Fogg Motorsport last year, that is how shall we say, a bit rougher than that one. I am not sure of its history, if indeed it has any, but if the owner can drag himself away from fixing dodgy Jags and crashed Minis, we might see it out and about one day.

The term by the way is......'a bucket of bolts', and being kind, that is how I would describe it at this point in time. When I first saw it I thought it was a burnt out wreck that had been salvaged from a Motorway pile up, but many hours and $$$$$$$$ in the future could look as good as the photo.

[John McKechnie]

Gerald- any history you can tell us about on this car with potential?

[AMCO72]

John, if I can pin the Lad down, I will ask him the gory details. I think, initially anyway he was going to build it for Central Muscle Cars, but seeing that photo MIGHT persuade him to change tack, and if Georges new class gets going could be somewhere where it could race. George is talking about 3 strikes and your out for contact, something that wouldn't work in CMC!!!!!

[aussiemonza]

Now that is one sharp looking car. We have another one in NZ, imported by Fogg Motorsport last year, that is how shall we say, a bit rougher than that one. I am not sure of its history, if indeed it has any, but if the owner can drag himself away from fixing dodgy Jags and crashed Minis, we might see it out and about one day.

The term by the way is......'a bucket of bolts', and being kind, that is how I would describe it at this point in time. When I first saw it I thought it was a burnt out wreck that had been salvaged from a Motorway pile up, but many hours and $$$$$$$$ in the future could look as good as the photo.

Hi Amco, The Fogg Motorsport Monza has the correct body kit I need for the McKee car that I have been chasing for a number of years. Currently chatting with Angus about it. As the Red Dawson Monza is virtually extinct (only the A pillar, turret and half of the C pillars of the original car still remains), there would always be the opportunity for a Red Dawson (tribute) type car!

[CUSTAXIE50]

Now that is one sharp looking car. We have another one in NZ, imported by Fogg Motorsport last year, that is how shall we say, a bit rougher than that one. I am not sure of its history, if indeed it has any, but if the owner can drag himself away from fixing dodgy Jags and crashed Minis, we might see it out and about one day.

The term by the way is......'a bucket of bolts', and being kind, that is how I would describe it at this point in time. When I first saw it I thought it was a burnt out wreck that had been salvaged from a Motorway pile up, but many hours and $$$$$$$$ in the future could look as good as the photo.Yes i know the term is--a bucket of bolts,but if you look at it this way dont we say sometimes she is not running right today.

[Rod Grimwood]

My personal plea would be for the cars to run as they were in period. No modern modifications, but enjoy what they were...a piece of history that is as exciting to watch today as it was way back then when I was a spotty faced teenage flag marshall at Manfield.

Got me crunch.

Amco, you get back to work and make some more $$$$ so that Monza gets finished, No future in you argueing all day on here with uncle Jim, now you have a new project.

[George Sheweiry]

Ok Guys, Just remember the meeting is on this Saturday for this new class so please come along and put your 10cents worth in and lets get this off the ground. See ya there. Cheers, George.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Ok Guys, Just remember the meeting is on this Saturday for this new class so please come along and put your 10cents worth in and lets get this off the ground. See ya there. Cheers, George. How did the meeting go on Saturday George,any news you can put up on this class.

[George Sheweiry]

Ok, the meeting started with 10 people being, Myself, Graeme Addis, Bob Homewood, Barry Algie, Gordon Burr, Paul McCarthy, Bruce Thompson, Tony Antunovich, Dave Hand and Rex Hand present. I handed out a list of rules pretty much based on what I had talked about on here which seemed also to be the majority opinion on this thread. Some glanced quickly thru it and a few had a good read. We then set about a general discussion of the main criteria/ what era of vehicles could run, vehicle eligibility and race format. Gordon Burr felt that having rules was the problem with getting people with cars to run them, so It was decided that getting the series up and running was the no1 priority so the era was set at 1963 to 1988 and a full formation of the class and rules would be looked at after the first few meetings. So Vehicle compliance to its period would also not be important until a gauge could be made from the first few meetings. Graham Addis was vehemently opposed to handicap races and so it was decided that they would all be Scratch races. These would consist of 1 practise and 3 races all of 6 laps per meeting. I felt we needed a bit more of a guide of where the rules would be likely to go especially for fielding calls of those who might be interested so it was decided that it was preferred that vehicles be period correct and that vehicles outside this may still compete at the discretion of the committee but this would all be very loose for those first few meetings. That is a very condensed version of how it was, certainly not what I envisioned however as I pointed out from the beginning the class would be formed by the people who took the time to come along and start it. A show of hands gave 8 cars from this group for the first meeting and with a count up of those previously talked to it looks like the number would be about 15. So there we are, that leaves the door open to any cars or replicas from that era to get out there and have a race in a low key club type series of 6 meetings starting Sept and going thru till April next year. It will only work of course if you guys out there with those type of cars get cracking and run in it!! I would also like to make clear, (as I think can be backed up by the outcome of this formation) This is not a "George Sheweiry" Class I only did this to get something up and running so we could run these neat old race cars, and once going its momentum will run itself. Cheers. George.

[AMCO72]

George, a great start. However, I wonder why Graham Addis is so against handicap races? I think, with any 'classic' style racing, and certainly the type of vehicle you are proposing, that handicap starts are the preferred method, if only to avoid that scramble into the first few corners, and the possibility of a coming together between cars. I know there are a number of folk on the roaring season that are opposed to them also, but surely it isn't to do with winning or not, as everything being equal the front guys are going to win, or should I say cross the line ahead of the rest of the field anyway.

I know it is a pain trying to work out and administer handicaps, but I have seen some of the best classic racing ever that have been started under a handicap, with the back markers really putting on a show to get to the front, and mostly safely. Sometimes they did, and sometimes they didn't, but the spectacle of them trying, made these starts so memorable. Otherwise the finish should be in the approximate position to where a car started, given that all sorts of things thwart drivers when they are actually racing, as opposed to setting a qualifying time. You have already said that there will be a big difference in lap times with these cars, something that could have been addressed with handicapping.

Your group seems to have made up its mind on this matter, so there it is. Good luck to you.

[ERC]

Totally agree with AMCO.

I am not interested in winning, as my car is not a winner now, never has been , never will be, however, circulating in glorious isolation at the back of a pack, never seeing anyone ahead or behind, you may as well do a track day. It is not racing unless you have the best car - and even then, I can't see the point of just running away from the pack, it still isn't really racing.

Remember the late great Gerry Marshall understood that even if you have the fastest car, the spectators would rather see you 'mixing it'. This is is why Gerry is still ranked as many people's favourite driver of all time.

I wonder why people with the really fast cars are the ones who often don't like handicaps? Don't they like to be beaten or do they just HAVE to win?

[George Sheweiry]

Hi Amco, I fully agree after all most classes except for tier1 use a variety of handicap, reverse grid and scratch races and they all seem to manage it very well, and I have always felt that when forming something new you need to put the "whats best for the good of the class and ALL the competitors" hat on because the race is not a race without all the other competitors. But then that is only my opinion and hey as a democratic class it goes by majority vote. Graeme's concern was the huge speed difference say on pukes back straight and taking someone out who makes a quick move into the path of a way faster car and remember, he is one of the people who got off his chuff and fronted up. An interesting comment from Barrie Algie was that he still has lots of things to change on the car that aren't quite right which to me makes me wonder whether everyone there had a grip on the fact that the idea was for a class for HISTORIC sports sedans. Anyway the great thing is that none of this is completely set in concrete yet it is underway. But and I must stress this It is definitely going to be formed by the nucleus of people who turn up for those first few meets so anybody who thinks this is a worth while class needs to get along to those first meets and support it, remember "use it or lose it" Here endeth the fifth lesson lol. Cheers. George.

[AMCO72]

No George, NO LoL needed there!!!!!!!!! I am guessing that by the time this all gets underway and on the track we will be up to the
50th lesson. But thanks for your explanation.

One would hope that no one, least of an experienced driver, who all these people will be, will, as you say, make a quick move into the path of a faster car........NOT IF THEY ARE USING THEIR MIRRORS........ And a lot of these cars are right hand drive which makes the mirror thing a whole lot better, as against the LHD problem we have /had at HD with the Muscle Cars.

Your comment on whether people had the right idea of what sort of class they were competing in, is very apt. This is something Dale struggles with all the time with his boys...........however if you are a competitive person, its in the blood.......faster, faster, faster!

[ERC]

And therein lies the quandary. IF you are driving to the limits of the car, 100% in its original configuration, there is no faster, faster , faster - from the car, just consistency from the driver!

[crunch]

Hi George.
Good work, however I do have huge misgivings regarding the no-rules for the first dew meetings.
How many are a few?
Once the door is open to a run-what-you-brung, it will be very hard to close it. For instance; who is going to tell someone that they now cant run thier car because you are introducing the proper rules, if they had been allowed at the first "few"?
This scenario has happened in the past, and in the end it will cause division, or no-one will be banned due to vehicle non-compliance, so you will have a clubmans field. If that is what the group wants; that's fine, but dont try to sell it as Historic.

It would be best to start with rules in place, then everyone knows exactly where they stand. But I'm not lucky enough to own one of these vehicles, so this is just an opinion.

[John McKechnie]

ERC- you should also have put in that the consistency of the Turtle beat the speed of the Hare in Aesops tale

[AMCO72]

John, that's not a lesson, that's a fable........and there are a few of Mr Aesops little gems that we need to take on board. I will dig one or two of them out!

By the way......would the Amco mini be eligible for this class. I feel that this ex BNSW car would be more at home with these guys, even though it is not strictly a Sports Sedan.

[bob homewood]

No I agreed with Graeme on that one ,that closing speed difference especially on the Back Straight at Puke was dam dangerous ,now that is coming from some one who on paper should have benefited from the Handicap races ,but sorry I got run off the track too many times down the back straight back in those days especially on the fastest part after the kink ,its not a matter of watching the mirrors ,its the closing speed of the faster cars ,you are there before they even have time to notice




Hi Amco, I fully agree after all most classes except for tier1 use a variety of handicap, reverse grid and scratch races and they all seem to manage it very well, and I have always felt that when forming something new you need to put the "whats best for the good of the class and ALL the competitors" hat on because the race is not a race without all the other competitors. But then that is only my opinion and hey as a democratic class it goes by majority vote. Graeme's concern was the huge speed difference say on pukes back straight and taking someone out who makes a quick move into the path of a way faster car and remember, he is one of the people who got off his chuff and fronted up. An interesting comment from Barrie Algie was that he still has lots of things to change on the car that aren't quite right which to me makes me wonder whether everyone there had a grip on the fact that the idea was for a class for HISTORIC sports sedans. Anyway the great thing is that none of this is completely set in concrete yet it is underway. But and I must stress this It is definitely going to be formed by the nucleus of people who turn up for those first few meets so anybody who thinks this is a worth while class needs to get along to those first meets and support it, remember "use it or lose it" Here endeth the fifth lesson lol. Cheers. George.

[George Sheweiry]

Hi George.
Good work, however I do have huge misgivings regarding the no-rules for the first dew meetings.
How many are a few?
Once the door is open to a run-what-you-brung, it will be very hard to close it. For instance; who is going to tell someone that they now cant run thier car because you are introducing the proper rules, if they had been allowed at the first "few"?
This scenario has happened in the past, and in the end it will cause division, or no-one will be banned due to vehicle non-compliance, so you will have a clubmans field. If that is what the group wants; that's fine, but dont try to sell it as Historic.

It would be best to start with rules in place, then everyone knows exactly where they stand. But I'm not lucky enough to own one of these vehicles, so this is just an opinion.

Well crunch aint that the truth, and I said all of that but at the risk of repeating, the majority ruled.
Yes Amco the mini sure can run. George.

[ERC]

If the speed differential is too high, that is when you need to split grids by lap times... Which is then another TWO classes to the existing list!!! It does eliminate the major problem though, as the closing speed of the fastest car in either group, against the slowest, is a fraction of what it is in one large or diverse class.

In any class purporting to be classic or historic, surely driving standards have to be high on the list of requirements? Sadly, we saw as much or possibly more panel damage at the Hulme Festival, (supposedly "it is all about the cars") than most series classic race meetings, where there are regular drivers, used to running with the others and bad driving can soon be stamped out by the series committee.

I half agree with Crunch in that a framework of rules is required, but the more technical and involved they are, the more difficult it gets to administer and moderate and also to cover all eventualities.

We have always operated on a consensus of views from the active drivers. If enough believe a car is against the spirit of the regulations, out it goes - and that IS enshrined in the rules.

[CobraV8]

This is a class I would love to race in, however my 1989 Gulf Cobra misses by 1 year, isn't strictly a saloon either. It is however I believe in the right spirit of the competition, and was raced at many of the events that other cars here did. Also would you bring in the TVR Tuscan of the Whittakers, Stew McCondacks Ferrari?

Sports cars like these tend to miss out on many of the classes, Central muscle cars, single seater stuff etc, would be good to be included.

[Habu]

Hi All,

I think a lot of you guys on here are missing the sentiment behind getting this class off the ground - whether races are handicapped or not, what is considered eligible or not - based on a vehicles "period" specification etc etc.

The whole ethos of this class is to get these fantastic cars out there, and circulating for the enjoyment of ownership firstly, and for the enjoyment of spectators as well!

To be honest, as a spectator I cant tell 100% accuracy compared to when a car ran back in its heyday..... As long as the vehicle is a reasonably close representation of how it ran all those years ago will be enough for me to want to go and watch.
I agree that starting a class with no rules is a little risky, but lets face it, let the guys who are prepared to front up with a car and run, guide the direction of the class. Better the guys running the cars, than those who are offering opinions and have either no intention of running in the class at all.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing some of these fantastic cars running again, that will bring back great memories of watching them as a kid.

Bring on the Historic Sports Sedans:cool:

[AMCO72]

I think CobraV8 you are going to have to start ANOTHER class.................LoL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CobraV8]

Haha very good. I don't want to be racing against scanz cars and old single seaters, the Cobra was always running with saloons and sports cars, that's the class I would like.

[kiwi285]

Hi All,

I think a lot of you guys on here are missing the sentiment behind getting this class off the ground - whether races are handicapped or not, what is considered eligible or not - based on a vehicles "period" specification etc etc.

The whole ethos of this class is to get these fantastic cars out there, and circulating for the enjoyment of ownership firstly, and for the enjoyment of spectators as well!

To be honest, as a spectator I cant tell 100% accuracy compared to when a car ran back in its heyday..... As long as the vehicle is a reasonably close representation of how it ran all those years ago will be enough for me to want to go and watch.
I agree that starting a class with no rules is a little risky, but lets face it, let the guys who are prepared to front up with a car and run, guide the direction of the class. Better the guys running the cars, than those who are offering opinions and have either no intention of running in the class at all.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing some of these fantastic cars running again, that will bring back great memories of watching them as a kid.

Bring on the Historic Sports Sedans:cool:

I agree Habu. I can't tell the difference either after all these years. And these cars were continually being developed to make them more competitive and to win races. So long as a few don't disappear off into the distance I don't mind so long as they are on track and being exercised again.

[AMCO72]

Ok, some questions that I, and I assume others would like to know. Maybe George already knows the answers and has done his homework, and before the FF brigade jumps in and accuses me of being negative, I think the points I am raising are positive, insightful, and relevant.............

First of all, we are talking here of cars that do/did exist, and actually raced 25 to 50 years ago, not a replica or tribute type car.
But DO they actually still exist.....has anyone set eyes on them, and what condition are they in; are they complete, or have they been robbed; do/will they comply with MSNZ rule books?? Any car that has been idle for that length of time is going to be in a mess, unless they have been stored in a heated garage and started once a month, which I doubt. Unlike a vintage car which can be restored and put on the road with a WOF, these machines have to go one step further than that, and put into race-worthy condition........a much bigger ask.

What 'condition' are the drivers in?????? They are old or at least older, may have medical problems, no spare cash, have lost their 'mojo', moved on to other sporting attractions.......fishing etc.....and do they really WANT to resurrect/restore/refurbish these things that kept them poor all those years ago. Perhaps they are happy just to look at them in the shed, crack open a can of Lion Red and dream of glories past, and cant be bothered with all the crap necessary to race......licences, medicals etc etc.
Can they in fact be bothered to go through all the bullshit again?????

All these original cars are going to need a LOT of cash thrown at them. Going on our own experience with the Amco Mini......it was a mess, and needed a lot of time and effort to get it up and running.......and that was the first restoration in 1985. The second shot was even more expensive.....inflation.... and that car swallowed up a serious amount of money, and it was only a bloody Mini.

When the initial euphoria has gone and these owners sit down, with a can or two of 'Chateau Waikato Noir' and start to do some sums, they MAY decide it is all too hard. Sometimes it doesn't pay to go back to old haunts, or see old girl-friends. We all move on and usually these reminiscing episodes only lead to disappointments.

The other thing is this. Is there going to be a association/club for this class or is the roaring season going to be it. I think what we are doing now is the way to go. Get all these ex drivers onto the RS, and they can be kept fully informed. I mean look what has come up already in such a short time, and we are only on page 6. Maybe some word-of mouth is necessary here.......spread the message.....

We on the roaring season are all keen to see these cars in action again, but it is not going to happen overnight. As Dale says......he doesn't care if there are only 6 genuine cars on the first grid, it will build from there.

George, you have a big task ahead of you, and you have done your restore/refurbish so you know what it is all about. All you have to do is convince these other guys to go down the same path.........all power to your arm!!!!!!!!!

And there is NO LoL after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frosty5]

AMCO72 succintly put and credit to you. It certainly does open a can of worms as opposed to a "Lyon Rouge". You are quite right about people moving on to other things. It is some 40 yrs since I last was actively involved in motorsport and with such things as mortgages, spouse and family, not to mention grandchildren it does focus your mind on other things. But thank the big fella in the sky for the RS, without it the pasion would not have been rekindled. And I'm glad it has because I no longer have those responsibilities and can go to the track and soak up the atmosphere and the fellowship of former racers and aquaintenances. But to put a car back on the track maybe just a bit of a task but am certainly looking at it before the guys in the white coats come along! LOL!!!!!

[John McKechnie]

Gerald- if the desire is there, mountains will be shifted.

[rogered]

Ok, some questions that I, and I assume others would like to know. Maybe George already knows the answers and has done his homework, and before the FF brigade jumps in and accuses me of being negative, I think the points I am raising are positive, insightful, and relevant.............

First of all, we are talking here of cars that do/did exist, and actually raced 25 to 50 years ago, not a replica or tribute type car.
But DO they actually still exist.....has anyone set eyes on them, and what condition are they in; are they complete, or have they been robbed; do/will they comply with MSNZ rule books?? Any car that has been idle for that length of time is going to be in a mess, unless they have been stored in a heated garage and started once a month, which I doubt. Unlike a vintage car which can be restored and put on the road with a WOF, these machines have to go one step further than that, and put into race-worthy condition........a much bigger ask.

What 'condition' are the drivers in?????? They are old or at least older, may have medical problems, no spare cash, have lost their 'mojo', moved on to other sporting attractions.......fishing etc.....and do they really WANT to resurrect/restore/refurbish these things that kept them poor all those years ago. Perhaps they are happy just to look at them in the shed, crack open a can of Lion Red and dream of glories past, and cant be bothered with all the crap necessary to race......licences, medicals etc etc.
Can they in fact be bothered to go through all the bullshit again?????

All these original cars are going to need a LOT of cash thrown at them. Going on our own experience with the Amco Mini......it was a mess, and needed a lot of time and effort to get it up and running.......and that was the first restoration in 1985. The second shot was even more expensive.....inflation.... and that car swallowed up a serious amount of money, and it was only a bloody Mini.

When the initial euphoria has gone and these owners sit down, with a can or two of 'Chateau Waikato Noir' and start to do some sums, they MAY decide it is all too hard. Sometimes it doesn't pay to go back to old haunts, or see old girl-friends. We all move on and usually these reminiscing episodes only lead to disappointments.

The other thing is this. Is there going to be a association/club for this class or is the roaring season going to be it. I think what we are doing now is the way to go. Get all these ex drivers onto the RS, and they can be kept fully informed. I mean look what has come up already in such a short time, and we are only on page 6. Maybe some word-of mouth is necessary here.......spread the message.....

We on the roaring season are all keen to see these cars in action again, but it is not going to happen overnight. As Dale says......he doesn't care if there are only 6 genuine cars on the first grid, it will build from there.

George, you have a big task ahead of you, and you have done your restore/refurbish so you know what it is all about. All you have to do is convince these other guys to go down the same path.........all power to your arm!!!!!!!!!

And there is NO LoL after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



or just put some gas in, kick out the chickens and give them a run.

[John McKechnie]

Rogered- Its always easy when its a V8 isnt it

[AMCO72]

Yes John, but like all desires, the passion fades, and it becomes easier to sit by the fire with an apple and the newspaper, than go out into the shed and bleed the brakes!!!!! That is assuming you have any teeth left to eat an apple.

[ERC]

This is a class I would love to race in, however my 1989 Gulf Cobra misses by 1 year, isn't strictly a saloon either. It is however I believe in the right spirit of the competition, and was raced at many of the events that other cars here did. Also would you bring in the TVR Tuscan of the Whittakers, Stew McCondacks Ferrari?

Those cars (and yours) are already eligible for the Arrow Wheels Series. Not sure where you are based but send me a PM.

We are more pragmatic than most and if a car fits the general criteria, even if out by a year or three, or even country of origin, it still runs, which is why you have Tony Robert's Corvette and Neil Tolich's Mustang from the USA instead of Europe, plus two or three Datsun Zs who joined up before the Japanese Classics grid got going. We would love to see more sports cars out there but most people opt for a saloon, as it is generally an easier option because there are more of them around.

[Bruce302]

or just put some gas in, kick out the chickens and give them a run.

Bring one, or both, of your bad boys Roger.

[George Sheweiry]

Ok just a bit more info; Cars confirmed for Sept so far;---

George Sheweiry 69 Boss Mustang Ford366 Gurney Weslake
Graham Addis 72 Charger Chev366 Moran
Bob Homewood 72 Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Barry Algie 69 Monaro Chev302 Bartz
Gordon Burr 74 Alfetta Chev 302 Milidon
71 Cologne Capri Ford 4500 GAA Cosworth
Paul McCarthy 69 Zakspeed Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Bruce Thompson 69 Coppins Firebird Chev302 Traco
Tony Antonovich 69 Marwood Z28 Camaro Chev350
Roger Davis 77 Torana Chev350
Adrian Dobbe 69 W Grey Viva Holden 202
Dennis Running 77 Wills RX8 Chev366
I will post more as I contact and confirm vehicles, But that is what you can expect to see in September so far. George.

[fullnoise68]

Where`s the first race meeting in September George?

[George Sheweiry]

Well there is 3 at puke and 3 at HD and the September round 1 is usually around 6th at Pukekohe. ACC yet to confirm tracks and dates. Thanks. George.

[AMCO72]

Well there you go.........I am going to have to eat my words. Might be easier than eating apples with no teeth!!!

So the cars ARE out there, ready to go. Amazing. There could be more Sports Sedans on the track in September than Dales Muscle Car boys, and this has only been going for a couple of months. One has to wonder how many more old race cars are gathering dust in sheds round the country, just waiting for another 'George' to bring them back to life !!!!!!!!!

[John McKechnie]

I will definitely be there to watch the ex Coppins Firebird and ex Marwood Camaro on the race track.
Also will take delight in seeing Barry Algies transaxle Monaro running also, and Gordons Alfetta again
Full marks to Bob Homewood for wanting to run his Escort again-that should bring the SS brigade out of the garages.
Gerald- did you so ready to go, still 5 months to get ready.
Go, guys , go, we can feel the excitement already.

[fullnoise68]

Yes John, but like all desires, the passion fades, and it becomes easier to sit by the fire with an apple and the newspaper, than go out into the shed and bleed the brakes!!!!! That is assuming you have any teeth left to eat an apple.

I agree Gerald, although I`d rather be out in the shed and Dale can tell us what we missed on Coro Street! This has got the makings of a great class, but like a lot of things you will always get the `gunnas'. They are gunna do this,etc,etc. I reckon you need a core group of at least 12 cars for the class to gain awareness and that would be great to see happen. I see George you didn`t mention Jim Short, now there`s a guy who could show the world how it used to be........how about Jim?

[AMCO72]

Of course, we all forgot Jim........how remiss of us. Now Jim has really been there and done that, BUT, I think Jim will have the same problem as I have, and that is passing a medical. He tells me he is keeping fit redoing the garden for the tourist visits.......you know the sort of thing......car collection, garden tour, cup-a-tea.......sounds good to me. And a bit of cycling down to the local liquor store......all good for the vascular system.

Jim has been very quiet on TRS lately; perhaps he is just looking at videos and checking his model collection, remembering the old days, and that is sometimes the best way....... he has nothing to prove.
By the way Jim, where is the Porsche now?

[kiwi285]

Ok just a bit more info; Cars confirmed for Sept so far;---

George Sheweiry 69 Boss Mustang Ford366 Gurney Weslake
Graham Addis 72 Charger Chev366 Moran
Bob Homewood 72 Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Barry Algie 69 Monaro Chev302 Bartz
Gordon Burr 74 Alfetta Chev 302 Milidon
71 Cologne Capri Ford 4500 GAA Cosworth
Paul McCarthy 69 Zakspeed Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Bruce Thompson 69 Coppins Firebird Chev302 Traco
Tony Antonovich 69 Marwood Z28 Camaro Chev350
Roger Davis 71 Torana Chev350
Adrian Dobbe 69 W Grey Viva Holden 202
Dennis Running 77 Wills RX8 Chev366
I will post more as I contact and confirm vehicles, But that is what you can expect to see in September so far. George.


That's a good start George - there are a few cars there that I am chomping at the bit to see on track - not least the Mustang. Good to see cars that haven't graced the track for quite some years listed there as starters. I will be there with bells on. Will be interesting to see who else joins in before the first meeting. Roll on September.

[ERC]

At last, a potential grid at a race meeting I might well be going to as a spectator, but I might have to wait for the HD dates, as I don't think Pukekohe is now at all amateur photographer friendly.

All the more interesting for me as apart from the Alfetta and the Cologne Capri, the Viva and the RX8, in action, the other cars are totally new to me photographically.

Great work George.

[Shoreboy57]

George - this is mouthwatering. Congrats on kicking this off and the very best for a successful new class - we are looking forward to seeing you running in September.

[Jizim]

Great read George......got me all fizzy again. Now why would Gladdis not wanna do handicap? Sorry mate I just this minute stumbled on this thread. If we were to run in the same configuration as the 80's....well you may as well give me the trophy now I guess! LOL....Couple of things mate....Good on you for doing this.....(you should pop over to my shop for a chat and I may be of assistance to you). Why dont you run two scratch races and one handicap race...AS WE DID BACK THEN. This will promote a bit of racecraft with the back markers. There was a FIA ruling regarding speed differences..."they must be within 110 per cent fastest to slowest." The Jaguar XJS was never a Sports Sedan it was a Group A car. However, you would concider all 80s type cars on its own merit I guess. Rex Rattenbury would probably bring his Chevette back from Perth if asked....(P76 donk) My old Green car will be coming back to NZ fully restored to how I had it sometime in the near future. Oh and fancy forgetting Jim! And there were a couple of Mini's racing in the old SSA. Clive Gott....he had ex Silcock ex Millen Jag and in my view and only my view...bastardised the car by welding the rear doors up etc.As already mentioned the car is no more... Which quite frankly doesnt surprise me....Clives driving style is reminisent to Peter Meadows....F**ked. (I remember going to a Party in the back seat of that Jaguar..best sound ever....crazy fast road car as I remember blasting up and down Queen Street in the original Custaxie with a side valve V8 motor in it...even more crazy. I will see if I can track down any of the SSA paperwork down that was in my possession as the Secretary that may or may not be of help towards rules etc. Now as for being 30 years older...as for me I am fizzing and race ready after doing more laps than most at most of the race meeting from Taupo to HD and Puke and currently leading the Championship Points for Safety Car wins! (now I am going to find me a car....wanna come Jim?) See you soon George...(come over to the Shore). and good luck ... Kind regards. Tony Rutherford. Oh PS was talking to Graham Parks and he will be stuffing a V8 into something very soon as he tires of the red tape surrounding his current "class"......(which is Time Trialing around HD and Puke...............ho hum booooorrring!)

[kiwi285]

Now look what you have started George - the future sounds bright and people are eager to join in.

[ERC]

Off topic, but Graeme Park is now running in the ERC Series. The Red Tape regarding Classic Trials is a bit unfair, as that is NOT a race group as such. It is aimed at classic cars driven at the owner's pace, or a stepping stone before racing proper.

Interesting comment about FIA handicaps being within 110%, fastest to slowest. That is just about what our two groups are currently, but if we combined them, it would be nearer 120% - but they used to run OK like that when we had the split by Sports/GT and Saloons. Splitting them by speed group eliminates faster cars starting from pit lane.

If just one driver objects to running in a handicap race, isn't the answer rather obvious?

[AMCO72]

YES............

[John McKechnie]

Great read George......got me all fizzy again. Now why would Gladdis not wanna do handicap? Sorry mate I just this minute stumbled on this thread. If we were to run in the same configuration as the 80's....well you may as well give me the trophy now I guess! LOL....Couple of things mate....Good on you for doing this.....(you should pop over to my shop for a chat and I may be of assistance to you). Why dont you run two scratch races and one handicap race...AS WE DID BACK THEN. This will promote a bit of racecraft with the back markers. There was a FIA ruling regarding speed differences..."they must be within 110 per cent fastest to slowest." The Jaguar XJS was never a Sports Sedan it was a Group A car. However, you would concider all 80s type cars on its own merit I guess. Rex Rattenbury would probably bring his Chevette back from Perth if asked....(P76 donk) My old Green car will be coming back to NZ fully restored to how I had it sometime in the near future. Oh and fancy forgetting Jim! And there were a couple of Mini's racing in the old SSA. Clive Gott....he had ex Silcock ex Millen Jag and in my view and only my view...bastardised the car by welding the rear doors up etc.As already mentioned the car is no more... Which quite frankly doesnt surprise me....Clives driving style is reminisent to Peter Meadows....F**ked. (I remember going to a Party in the back seat of that Jaguar..best sound ever....crazy fast road car as I remember blasting up and down Queen Street in the original Custaxie with a side valve V8 motor in it...even more crazy. I will see if I can track down any of the SSA paperwork down that was in my possession as the Secretary that may or may not be of help towards rules etc. Now as for being 30 years older...as for me I am fizzing and race ready after doing more laps than most at most of the race meeting from Taupo to HD and Puke and currently leading the Championship Points for Safety Car wins! (now I am going to find me a car....wanna come Jim?) See you soon George...(come over to the Shore). and good luck ... Kind regards. Tony Rutherford. Oh PS was talking to Graham Parks and he will be stuffing a V8 into something very soon as he tires of the red tape surrounding his current "class"......(which is Time Trialing around HD and Puke...............ho hum booooorrring!)

Hi Tony- is this you running the Mustang painted green at Hansells Sun Valley New Zealand Sports Sedan Series - Pukekohe 1989 ?
If so there is a thread on it here showing the race. regards ,John.

[Jizim]

Hi John....nah mate that was Robbie Kerr in the ex DJR car. I purchased the Pinepac Mustang...(the better of the two!) It was in Bruce and Wayne Pinepac Orangey yellow colour. And it was restored by Kenneth Hopper for yet another ex Pat Kiwi Brett Maddren from yet another Timber backgound whom now resides on the Gold Coast. The car was recently sold I believe for a meagre Au$175,000. It was by all accounts one of the nicest race cars I have driven and I had the pleasure of giving it it's first race win at a meeting at Baypark. Thank John....I will get picts to you in your glorious XA Coupe when I can grab a few hours of sorting through about 50,000 pictures! Regards, Tony R

[John McKechnie]

Tony- are you seriously starting to get an itch to be a loose cannon and go racing again? Or did that video clip I sent really get you going for more hands-on action.
Have you got the meagre Aus$175,000 to get the Mustang back - would be a sound investment ,better than property.
Barry Algie was telling me today that you are an excellent peddler, and it would be great to see you doing it again

[Rod Grimwood]

John, Barry is right, but then Barry talks highly of lots of people. The only itch Tony has had lately was after a good night on the turps.
As for fizzing, remember Ruppie, it is a safety car doing 80kph so you would look tidy and as for mileage, you do more getting to and from the tracks (at a lot more pace). Seriously, be good to get back and play. Now Rex 'the rat' thats an interesting thought. He still has the lap record for Bay Park in Rally Car.
Tony I just got Biscuits phone number so will be intouch with him and maybe we can all get our heads together for an hour when I come on down that way.

[George Sheweiry]

Hey there Rod, yes call in or ph me and we can meet at Big bad Tonys if that's better. Hah ha I see you still remember the nick name from baypark. That weekend at Baypark there was that lippy bloody commentator who read out, and George sherry in the mustang, hey hes a drink or shrewsbury, hes a biscuit too, then later John Leafmoth in the Monaro. Must admit, to this day I still call John -- Leafmoth (and get an earful each time!!) Will you have the Escort ready in time for the first round in September, bloodyhell, its gonna be just like the old days!!!

[Steve Holmes]

George, heres one from the Graeme Bennett Collection of old NZ racing pics up currently uploading on another thread. Thought you might get a kick out of this!

18015

[Munty]

Hi George, give me a bell sometime as I have a fair bit of info on most of the cars you are looking for, especially old OSCA cars.
Good luck with the class I know it will take up plenty of hours. It has been mentioned by others and some are against but what we found worked for our 40th anniversary meeting was to simply let any car that had ever raced at least one OSCA event in but with a committee of 3 to decide on eligibilty. The only thin we were looking for was an obvious performance upgrade that didnt exost back in its day such as putting a 750hp 14 degree crate engine in when said car only ran approx 500hp 23degree head engine.
As long as it looks like the car from a certain period let it in or as you are rightly doing give them a chance then see where things need to be tidied up.
Handicap racing will be advantageous as at the end of the day you are putting on a show for the spectators and its those spectators who will keep the class wanted by car clubs by coming to the tracks...just like all sport sedan classes over the years (possibly not OSCA) the guy that brings the fastest car wins and the rest soon leave the car in the shed...or start another class. Puke's straight aint as quick anymore.

Was probably harder for us down here but after nearly 2 years of planning we only ended up with 7 cars I think from a supposedly 17 confirmed or at least thought they would make it. Keep on them and keep them keen!!!

Cheers Munty

[Steve Holmes]

This is for you Evan, your dad at Puke in the Capri. This is still to my mind one of the best looking of all the NZ modified sedans. A great looking car and always beautifully presented. This is from the Graeme Bennett Collection (http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?1118-Photos-The-Graeme-Bennett-Collection-Part-1) of pics I'm currently uploading.

18039

[Munty]

Thanks Steve, Dad was always one for making sure the car looked good over its evolution.

[Rod Grimwood]

Steve, you reckon George may get a kick out of that photo, he is not alone. 2 Classics, one mean and lean the other mean and kean.

Thats a good photo, George in the shade but still glowing

[John McKechnie]

I reckon with owning that car, the glow would never go

[mikealjo]

Now here is where we can see a whole lot of grief amongst you lot that think a car with "history' is more desirable than a new built old car. The ex Clive Gott car does not exsist, that was supposedly destroyed by Mike John, sent to the crusher I belive. The car he now insists is the ex Millen car does not exsist either, wrong wheels, no Mk1 escort flares, wrong color etc. The car I built and raced no longer exsist either,if you consider the car as I saw it at Highland Park at Easter. The wheels and body are the wrong color, it has a louvered bonnet, the front wheel arches are the wrong shape, the seats and steering wheel are incorrect and it has a roll cage in it. Not to mention the Japanese 5 speed gearbox and the Willwood brakes. Not a glimmer of nostalgia did I feel as I walked by it. So how is this going to fit into this new class? And this is only a car I know a bit about, what about all the other cars on the list?


Here is a history lesson about the MK2 Jaguar that Dave Silcock outlines earlier in this forum and sorry to George Sheweiry that his forum has been hijacked in this way.
The Jaguar was bought as a written off car and rebuilt into a race car by Silcock in the ‘70’s. It was then owned by Don McMillan of Metropolitan Cranes with Silcock and Peter Sundberg racing it.
It was subsequently sold to Steve Millen who after initially racing it as bought, modified it to be more competitive, changed the colour and was very successful with it, it really launched his racing career.
In 1973 Don Peddie bought the Jaguar, did little with it but Grant Aitken did have a race in it. In 1978 it was sold to Stephen Thomson, then in ’79 sold to Gwyn Edicot-Davies with Clive Gott then buying it from him where Gott substantially modified it and did run in Sports Sedans even once managing a win, this was around 1981 with a period article stating “He does not expect to be able to match the V8 engined Ford Capri of Wayne Huxford or 4.2 litre Toyota Starlet of Trevor Crowe” Of interest in the same article Gott said “He has extensively modified it by fitting a light fibreglass front end and cutting out the floor in the boot. He also welded up the rear doors and moved the motor back several centimetres to aid weight distribution” it was then sold to Bruce Orr in 1984 who sold it to Terry Paaske in 1986 whom I purchased it from in the late ‘80’s.
The way I preferred the look of the Jaguar was as originally built by Silcock and this is the way I decided to restore it and not that Silcock mentions it but we got him to rebuild all the mechanical and some fabrication work on the body!
For Silcock to carry out his work I had to purchase another MK2 shell as Gott had chopped so much out of the original and it had now succumbed to rust, all that could be saved was cut out of the little that was left of the ‘original’ shell which I made no secret of was then crushed. I kept the Fibre glass doors and boot, cut out a lot of the ‘original’ fabricating work that was left and kept all the mechanicals including suspension’ with later on Silcock selling the 4.2 engine from it. I run a period correct 3.8 originally built by Silcock then rebuilt by Dave Mills.
There was nothing forward of the front windscreen as that had been modified to a space frame set up. At this point I must say that I don’t blame Gott for doing all of this as it was his car and the work he did do was well done BUT did ruin a ‘classic’ race car.
So as you can see the Jaguar has gone through several ‘modifications over its life and whilst it can’t be said its original ( as that changed once the first modifications were done) the lineage is there and the car I have had for over 20 years, being the longest owner and I have raced it more than any of the previous owners is authentic if not original.
Some of the points that Silcock brings up “wrong wheels” not only are they the correct American racing wheels that came off a Mustang, this Jaguar uniquely has a Ford stud pattern (not ever modified in all it’s years of racing), what he means is I didn’t use the wider Millen wheels which would have meant fitting the Escort flares which at the time would have been frowned upon by the Classic race authorities. I did however keep a set of the period correct flares even though the rear ones had been further modified by Gott.
The colour is absolutely correct as Silcock knows as we had the original painter let us know what the Colour was off ( A Corvette) .
Silcock is again wrong “ The car I built no longer exists”. Through the history as explained above and especially as he rebuilt the Jaguar!
Silcock is correct that in the short period he raced the Jaguar it didn’t have a louvered bonnet but then I ‘m sure if he could have he would have as this alone went a long way to fixing the overheating the Jaguar had suffered in its early race history. And it adds to the beauty!
The front wheel arches are the correct shape as run early in it’s life.
As the Jaguar ran most of its life with a roll cage it has to have a roll cage, the seats also have to meet a standard, the originals didn’t ( I have kept what maybe the ‘originals’ ) and the steering wheel is a period Motolita donated to me by the late Geoff Manning and his lovely wife, Barbara.
The gearbox as modified by Silcock was a constant disaster, the one in it now has the same foward gears as available in it’s time but doesn’t break!! It’s Australian!
The Wilwood brakes as fitted by Silcock are noted in the Certificate of Description and are a cheaper, safer allowable option.
If anyone has bothered to get this far go and look up a court case in the UK in 1990 Hubbard Vs Middlebridge Scmitar Ltd www.gomog.com/articles/N01 Judgement where you will read about Old Number One Bentley.
It’s not dissimilar to the Jaguar with stating “ "It is important to realize that racing cars are invariably changed during their careers, to incorporate improvements and modifications, and because of hard use and accidents” The Bentley even had a change of Chassis just like the Jaguar.
Summary
Thus, in summary, the expression Old Number One is the famous name in history of vintage Bentley racing car. It is justifiably applied to the car which in a succession of forms raced at Le Mans between 1929 and 1932 when it crashed. It is the "authentic" "Old Number One".
My Jaguar CP 9788 is THE Authentic car, original no but the lineage is there.
Silcock should be proud that a part of history that he initially made has been preserved, I wasn’t the one that hacked it about!

I am not going to debate with Silcock or anyone on this matter in this forum I just wanted to give a brief outline of the Jaguar’s history.

Regards
Mike John

[Steve Holmes]

I can see the discussion regarding the Jaguar owned by Mike John as above could quickly escalate, and get out of control, so I'm going to say right now I don't want any further discussion posted on The Roaring Season about the originality of this car.

Race cars, by their very nature, in order to remain competitive, evolve. They suffer accident damage, and later in life, when they're no longer competitive and their values plummet, they often suffer neglect. So its extremely rare any old race car remains completely intact, retaining every piece it was fitted with in period. The amount of originality a car retains varies from car to car, and every person has their own opinion on what makes a car original, or otherwise. There is probably no right or wrong answer, just different opinions, and by arguing the fact on here will achieve nothing other than cause argument for the sake of causing argument. And at the end of it all, nothing will be achieved other than everyone disagreeing.

[John McKechnie]

Hi George- Can we have an update on the track and date of the proposed first meeting.I want to be there in Sept, and prefer it didnt clash with HMC Ice breaker. Also this post needs a bump back to the top again.

[Hart1598]

Couldnt agree more. Dont allow ANY modern modifications, otherwise the door will be kicked open and you will just end up with a bunch of fast modern spec old-looking cars. I loved the days of the Crowe Starlet, Huxford Capri, Algie Charger and that wild Alfa driven from the back seat. Make the cars stay with period spec as they then has an historical value. They were/are plenty fast enough anyway.
Agree with the cut-off of pre-IMSA space frame.
Good luck; will help in any way I can

Cars should be as they ran in the day, no sequential gear boxes, no carbon or Kevlar panels. if the car doesn't fit race with GT1 other wise we will just be another group of modified saloons

[CUSTAXIE50]

Hi George, give me a bell sometime as I have a fair bit of info on most of the cars you are looking for, especially old OSCA cars.
Good luck with the class I know it will take up plenty of hours. It has been mentioned by others and some are against but what we found worked for our 40th anniversary meeting was to simply let any car that had ever raced at least one OSCA event in but with a committee of 3 to decide on eligibilty. The only thin we were looking for was an obvious performance upgrade that didnt exost back in its day such as putting a 750hp 14 degree crate engine in when said car only ran approx 500hp 23degree head engine.
As long as it looks like the car from a certain period let it in or as you are rightly doing give them a chance then see where things need to be tidied up.
Handicap racing will be advantageous as at the end of the day you are putting on a show for the spectators and its those spectators who will keep the class wanted by car clubs by coming to the tracks...just like all sport sedan classes over the years (possibly not OSCA) the guy that brings the fastest car wins and the rest soon leave the car in the shed...or start another class. Puke's straight aint as quick anymore.

Was probably harder for us down here but after nearly 2 years of planning we only ended up with 7 cars I think from a supposedly 17 confirmed or at least thought they would make it. Keep on them and keep them keen!!!

Cheers Munty What OSCA cars do you know of that are parked up somewhere and have been for years,that could be put out there again.

[George Sheweiry]

I am pleased to announce confirmation of the induction of the Historic Sports Sedans into the Auckland Car Clubs Summer Series. This has given us the platform to launch this new class and bring out all those neat old race cars that were the only class that the race fans would stand up for!! The support and enthusiasm for HSS has been overwhelming and I am told long overdue. The ACC has now confirmed the dates for the summer series that will be 3 rounds at Puke and 3 rounds at Hampton downs with the first round being at HD 8th september 2013 through to round six Puke 30th March 2014. Each meeting will be 1 day events with 6 laps practice in the morning followed by 3 x 6 lap races through the day. Entry fees will be around the $200.00 mark. There will be an emphasis on driving standards and no biffing or bashing will be tolerated in this class as these cars are now valuable collectable historic race cars and are part of NZs racing heritage. Along with a good number of restored original cars not seen by the public for many years there will be some invited cars that are not necessarily to the proposed rules of this new class but are similar in looks that will also be competing on the day to help us bolster the numbers and show the ACC that their acceptance of our fledgling class is well founded. I have been told that if we have the numbers there is a good chance that we could be included in the HD festival of speed in january. There will be a meeting held at the ACC club rooms 10am the following Saturday (14th September) to finalise a set of rules/ guidelines for this new class. People interested in coming to this need to read the valuable comments and input from would be competitors and fans on the blog on, The Roaring Season, in General discusion headed "New Class Historic Sports Sedans" as the talk on there pretty much sums up the general direction the club should follow. I have put a lot of time and effort into getting this going so I would like from you names of potential competitors with cars that would fit this class as we need numbers to make this a success, so please email me with any info. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz . There will be an article about the class in Petrolhead magazine and hopefully Classic Car magazine. Also I have been invited by the Aucland Car club to have the Sidchrome mustang as one of their display cars at the CRC Speedshow so I will have a blurb sheet available for the public on the new class with the dates for the races as well. I would like to extend a big thankyou to all those who have plegged to attend the first meeting as this will be the start that gives us some credability and show that we mean buisness!!

Competitors who have given their word to be at the first round so far are:

George Sheweiry 69 Boss Mustang Ford366 Gurney Weslake
Graham Addis 72 Charger Chev366 Moran
Bob Homewood 72 Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Barry Algie 69 Monaro Chev302 Bartz
Gordon Burr 74 Alfetta Chev 302 Milidon
71 Cologne Capri Ford 4500 GAA Cosworth
Paul McCarthy 69 Zakspeed Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Bruce Thompson 69 Coppins Firebird Chev302 Traco
Tony Antonovich 69 Marwood Z28 Camaro Chev350
Roger Davis 77 Torana Chev350
Adrian Dobbe 69 W Grey Viva Holden 202
Dennis Running 77 Wills RX8 Chev366
Glenn Gordon Datsun 1200 SSS
Tony Boyden 69 Coppins Camaro 350
David Thompson 69 Jim & Ross Stone Escort
John Telford Mossman Mazda Chev
Clive Sheweiry 85 DJR 302 replica

Competitors yet to confirm:

Angus Fogg Amco Mini
Mal Clark Rover V8 3500
Skidmark Parsons Triumph TR8
Niel Tolich 64 Segedin Mustang
John Learmonth 77 Chev Monza 350
Roger Townshend Capri RS2600

other possibles;

Graham Barnes 69 Bulivant Capri Chev
Brian Roycroft Datsun 1200 coupe
Kelvin Brae 69 Escort
Tony Mann Victor chev
Gary Wilkinson Zakspeed grp5 Escort
John Abbott 69 Nazer Escort
Rayden Smith Richards TC Escort

race dates;
08-09-13 HD
06-10-13 Puke
10-11-13 HD
08-12-13 Puke
02-03-14 HD
30-03-14 Puke

[Frosty5]

How mouth watering is the above. Well done George.

[John McKechnie]

George - great to confirm the dates. So the next date to meet at the Auckland Car Club is Saturday 6 July to formalize the rules / guidelines?

[George Sheweiry]

George - great to confirm the dates. So the next date to meet at the Auckland Car Club is Saturday 6 July to formalize the rules / guidelines?

As it said the Saturday after the 1st race meet that will make it 14th September. So John This is a meeting you definitely need to attend, after all this class has been created for cars like your own and wont it be fantastic to see the Bunce /Thomson Monaro caning around the track amongst all the other awesome machinery!! I will try to slip in behind you and learn the quick way around the track if I can keep up that is!! I personally am hoping to see the Fahey FVA Escort out there as I never saw it run with Foohey driving it especially lifting that front wheel off the track hard in a corner---the sound of the engine through those twin side suckers---YEAH BABY. I have had a quick check up on your monaro blog and its good to see you are hard into that car and doing it right. I cant wait for this class to get under way especially if all my old mates like Tony Rutherford, Rod Grimwood, Poppa Smurf Windelburn and his boys, John leafmoth, Barry Search, Graham Parkes, Ralf Mossman, Harold Wooten, Bruce Mannon, Gary Deepthroat, Clive Gott, Wayne Huxford and yes maybe if he could wangle his medical the mighty Jim Short as I virtually class them as family because every Baypark Easter, xmas and labour weekend as well as the Puke rounds I spent with them instead of my own extended family not to mention all those wonderful and hugely competitive South Island boys who would come up for the North South clash--- man they were great days and yet here we are about to live all that again Christ can things get any better????

[CUSTAXIE50]

I am pleased to announce confirmation of the induction of the Historic Sports Sedans into the Auckland Car Clubs Summer Series. This has given us the platform to launch this new class and bring out all those neat old race cars that were the only class that the race fans would stand up for!! The support and enthusiasm for HSS has been overwhelming and I am told long overdue. The ACC has now confirmed the dates for the summer series that will be 3 rounds at Puke and 3 rounds at Hampton downs with the first round being at HD 8th september 2013 through to round six Puke 30th March 2014. Each meeting will be 1 day events with 6 laps practice in the morning followed by 3 x 6 lap races through the day. Entry fees will be around the $200.00 mark. There will be an emphasis on driving standards and no biffing or bashing will be tolerated in this class as these cars are now valuable collectable historic race cars and are part of NZs racing heritage. Along with a good number of restored original cars not seen by the public for many years there will be some invited cars that are not necessarily to the proposed rules of this new class but are similar in looks that will also be competing on the day to help us bolster the numbers and show the ACC that their acceptance of our fledgling class is well founded. I have been told that if we have the numbers there is a good chance that we could be included in the HD festival of speed in january. There will be a meeting held at the ACC club rooms 10am the following Saturday (14th September) to finalise a set of rules/ guidelines for this new class. People interested in coming to this need to read the valuable comments and input from would be competitors and fans on the blog on, The Roaring Season, in General discusion headed "New Class Historic Sports Sedans" as the talk on there pretty much sums up the general direction the club should follow. I have put a lot of time and effort into getting this going so I would like from you names of potential competitors with cars that would fit this class as we need numbers to make this a success, so please email me with any info. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz . There will be an article about the class in Petrolhead magazine and hopefully Classic Car magazine. Also I have been invited by the Aucland Car club to have the Sidchrome mustang as one of their display cars at the CRC Speedshow so I will have a blurb sheet available for the public on the new class with the dates for the races as well. I would like to extend a big thankyou to all those who have plegged to attend the first meeting as this will be the start that gives us some credability and show that we mean buisness!!

Competitors who have given their word to be at the first round so far are:

George Sheweiry 69 Boss Mustang Ford366 Gurney Weslake
Graham Addis 72 Charger Chev366 Moran
Bob Homewood 72 Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Barry Algie 69 Monaro Chev302 Bartz
Gordon Burr 74 Alfetta Chev 302 Milidon
71 Cologne Capri Ford 4500 GAA Cosworth
Paul McCarthy 69 Zakspeed Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Bruce Thompson 69 Coppins Firebird Chev302 Traco
Tony Antonovich 69 Marwood Z28 Camaro Chev350
Roger Davis 77 Torana Chev350
Adrian Dobbe 69 W Grey Viva Holden 202
Dennis Running 77 Wills RX8 Chev366
Glenn Gordon Datsun 1200 SSS
Tony Boyden 69 Coppins Camaro 350
David Thompson 69 Jim & Ross Stone Escort
John Telford Mossman Mazda Chev
Clive Sheweiry 85 DJR 302 replica

Competitors yet to confirm:

Angus Fogg Amco Mini
Mal Clark Rover V8 3500
Skidmark Parsons Triumph TR8
Niel Tolich 64 Segedin Mustang
John Learmonth 77 Chev Monza 350
Roger Townshend Capri RS2600

other possibles;

Graham Barnes 69 Bulivant Capri Chev
Brian Roycroft Datsun 1200 coupe
Kelvin Brae 69 Escort
Tony Mann Victor chev
Gary Wilkinson Zakspeed grp5 Escort
John Abbott 69 Nazer Escort
Rayden Smith Richards TC Escort

race dates;
08-09-13 HD
06-10-13 Puke
10-11-13 HD
08-12-13 Puke
02-03-13 HD
30-03-13 HD How cool is this about time i say,John Telford mossmans mazda is that the mazda rx7 you are talking about,if so i saw this car having a run at Manfeild not that long ago, the work that has gone into this car. He is running a Nascar Dodge engine in it now and the sound it makes as it goes by,and was told he was only using 1/4 of the power it had on this day,also it has only put in about 70 laps all up.Boy when he puts the wood into it its going to take a good car to stay with him,also i would like to hear some more on Adrian Dobbe and his holden 202 viva.---2.3.14 HD.30.3.14 HD.

[George Sheweiry]

Thanks for pointing out the wrong track on 30-03-13 should read Pukekohe so I have edited it. And John Telford didn't mention he had a Late model nascar engine in it---- why would you do that??? oh well guess I will have to call him again and check on that. Bugger--- might be one off that list. Thanks for the heads up Custaxie50

[George Sheweiry]

By the way Custaxie50 Adrian Dobbe has the ex Warwick Grey Viva (HB) its silver in colour as last run by Warwick and in fact I think the car may have been a Brabham Torana. It had some pretty trick kit in it like a Detroit locker and a special HDT close ratio gearbox and I believe the engine was also a Holden racing special XU1 type. It was pretty bloody quick!!

[Oldfart]

Thanks for pointing out the wrong track on 30-03-13 should read Pukekohe so I have edited it. And John Telford didn't mention he had a Late model nascar engine in it---- why would you do that??? oh well guess I will have to call him again and check on that. Bugger--- might be one off that list. Thanks for the heads up Custaxie50

Hi George, presume those March dates are next year! 2014

[kiwi285]

You are a champ George. Some mouthwatering cars in that line up. I would also like to see and hear the FVA Escort in action again along with the Cologne Capri that is being worked on in Christchurch.

[George Sheweiry]

Proof reading never was my strong point!!! I have altered it. Thanks oldfart

[Oldfart]

Proof reading never was my strong point!!! I have altered it. Thanks oldfart

Who cares about your English skills? Keep bringing out these neat old cars and all will be forgiven. Are you sure that your cuzzy Benbrook hasn't got something hidden away. Then again you want it in the next couple of years, not decades!!

[George Sheweiry]

Hey kiwi285 now that is one car of fooheys that I did hear, that high pitched sound of the Cosworth GAA at full noise and was there at the flying farewell at puke his last race when he got on the grass on the outside coming down the front straight and got airborne over a pile of earth that strangely had been left in the middle of the grass strip. Quite lucky it didn't turn out worse than that really.

[John McKechnie]

George-I will be at the 8 Sept meeting- helping Barry and Bruce- also the following Saturday.
And BTW have not been around Puke since 1994.

[George Sheweiry]

Well oldfart my cuzzy Peter B just may be drafted in to run the Comet and perhaps my daughter Brittany in the Metro GpA Falcon and young George in the Tranzam Camaro and Alan Boyle in the Falcon Cobra as that is all I have going at the moment If by 3 days to go before the event there isn't the required 10 entries cause people who have given their word that they will run don't front then I will put those cars in as I have given my word to the car club and no one is going to f--- me over. So have no fear I have put my name to this class and the first meeting. IT WILL HAPPEN. Sorry to be staunch about it but I have seen the scenario before. But when you have got an arsenal of 28 cars in your garage then you can back up what you've opened your gob to. But hey ya never know they might just all front up. Like they say, when the flag drops the bullshit stops!!!!

[George Sheweiry]

That's Great John, Barry certainly needs some of your awesome enthusiasm to get his arse moving, lets face it there is only 10 weeks to go till the first race. He needs to get cracking Now!!

[Oldfart]

That bloody guest pilot Pete B! He doesn't need all those unfinished projects, just show up and drive :)

[John McKechnie]

If you are pushed for entries would you invite my XA Coupe there to fill the grid to get this first meeting up and running as the car is ready to go. ?

[George Sheweiry]

John Mckechnie, you are a prince among princes!! you bet your arse you can come join in the fun. I would really appreciate that. I tell you with offers like this from people who realise the importance of this first meeting and how we have to impress the ACC and show them we are here to stay, we cant loose. I am very humbled by your offer in the midst of the huge task you have on hand with the Monaro. I will save you a spot in the pits by me. Well done John!!!

[John McKechnie]

The difference between women and cars- the Monaro wont get jealous because I am out enjoying myself with the Falcon.

[CUSTAXIE50]

By the way Custaxie50 Adrian Dobbe has the ex Warwick Grey Viva (HB) its silver in colour as last run by Warwick and in fact I think the car may have been a Brabham Torana. It had some pretty trick kit in it like a Detroit locker and a special HDT close ratio gearbox and I believe the engine was also a Holden racing special XU1 type. It was pretty bloody quick!! Thanks for that.

[Rod Grimwood]

Well George, you have been a busy boy and good on you, even got my lazy arse itching. I have shifted more crap sideways in my wifes rubbish storage shed and even found a gearbox in the corner, eyeballing an engine in the other corner. It won't be immediate, but the old girl may come for a play soonish. Will have to pull car out and give complete go over,(it has only sat there since 91) Body repaint, fit windows, check rose joints, brakes check, renew all lines, new fuel cell, new wheels, new seat & belts etc. so will not be this week.
Most importantly try and find Log Book and documentation.

[Habu]

Well George, you have been a busy boy and good on you, even got my lazy arse itching. I have shifted more crap sideways in my wifes rubbish storage shed and even found a gearbox in the corner, eyeballing an engine in the other corner. It won't be immediate, but the old girl may come for a play soonish. Will have to pull car out and give complete go over,(it has only sat there since 91) Body repaint, fit windows, check rose joints, brakes check, renew all lines, new fuel cell, new wheels, new seat & belts etc. so will not be this week.
Most importantly try and find Log Book and documentation.

If its too hard Mr Grimwood, I'm sure I could relieve you of the offending vehicle.....;)

[George Sheweiry]

Mate , Its gonna be just like the old times except we'll be slimmer and more handsome!!! yeah right. Well I am glad that this little project has got you on the move Rod, So what about some photos of everything you just pulled out and of the car! I can feel a new thread comin on!!! Biscuit.

[John McKechnie]

Shrewsberry?

[Rod Grimwood]

Shrewsberry?


Your onto it John, 'Dumty Doo'

He's had that little name for a few years now, all had names back then.

[Grant Sprague]

Good on you Roddy, [& the rest of the ole boys]seems like a lot of older boys have an itching to skid some tyres , make the most of it ,have fun , but just remember ,[as my dad said] expectations are greater than realizations........... I am with you all on having some great fun & CLOSE FAST racing , sounds so exciting ,
I will be there to watch , might pop up on my sceemin eagle lol
Still got a good tow car & trailer ????????lol

[Steve Emson]

Grant, screaming eagle? At the risk of highjacking the thread, let me ask you something. People used to ask me all the time here in Queensland how can I not race? or why am I not racing anymore. One of the reasons I never felt as though i needed to was because of my Ducati. Riding a bike up in the foothills here in northern Brisbane is a little like my racing was. I don't go very fast on the road, just keep up a nice momentum and take my 'Car racing lines' through the corners. Done right it is as good for the soul as getting a pole position. You stop for a coffee and a chat so it is sociable. Actually it is amazing the amount of times Bike people have commented on the lines I take. I would not have thought there would be much difference, but apparently there is.
Question, do you share this bike connection? Most of my old racing buddies look at me rather strangely when you try to explain. I don't even bother anymore. Had a few people trying to entice me to look at the Aust Tranz Am class. The hot shots of this class I used to race against in Historic group NC with my GTHO.

[Jizim]

Well George, you have been a busy boy and good on you, even got my lazy arse itching. I have shifted more crap sideways in my wifes rubbish storage shed and even found a gearbox in the corner, eyeballing an engine in the other corner. It won't be immediate, but the old girl may come for a play soonish. Will have to pull car out and give complete go over,(it has only sat there since 91) Body repaint, fit windows, check rose joints, brakes check, renew all lines, new fuel cell, new wheels, new seat & belts etc. so will not be this week.
Most importantly try and find Log Book and documentation.....

Chuck it on a trailer Drifty and bring it down. Can have it going in three weeks. I can even do the paint work and panel these days. Have my workshop almost sorted with my machinery all coming out of the container next week. We can at least get yours out there....I will have to just watch and see if any old Group A Fords or such fall at my feet as what happened at Taupo when John Leaf Moth so generously gave me his Holden V8 to entice me away from Brap Brap Brapping....haaa. But mate the offer is there and I am a bit closer than Rotorua Branch. With regards Tony Rutherford. P.S. Biscuit my man...I have received your message and I will be in touch very very soon.. Yo.

[Parnelli]

Grant, screaming eagle? At the risk of highjacking the thread, let me ask you something. People used to ask me all the time here in Queensland how can I not race? or why am I not racing anymore. One of the reasons I never felt as though i needed to was because of my Ducati. Riding a bike up in the foothills here in northern Brisbane is a little like my racing was. I don't go very fast on the road, just keep up a nice momentum and take my 'Car racing lines' through the corners. Done right it is as good for the soul as getting a pole position. You stop for a coffee and a chat so it is sociable. Actually it is amazing the amount of times Bike people have commented on the lines I take. I would not have thought there would be much difference, but apparently there is.
Question, do you share this bike connection? Most of my old racing buddies look at me rather strangely when you try to explain. I don't even bother anymore. Had a few people trying to entice me to look at the Aust Tranz Am class. The hot shots of this class I used to race against in Historic group NC with my GTHO.

If you need to explain, they would'nt understand !!!!!!

[Grant Sprague]

Steve, I could not agree more , oddly enough though Gary & I had this same convo last week, he is over it he says [driving] & probably did more racing than us [perhaps] , eg doing a few bathursts , sharing drive with Dick J , & Greame Croz etc at a higher level not to mean any one is better than any one else as ego does play a part, I still have the hankering & I feel it never leaves our physiology once its ingrained from the excitements of being at the right end as you & I have been.
But Steve you are right re the Bike as well, this helps to get it out of our system there is that hill called the Kaimai Ranges , all new & reshaped seal since you were here last , you probably drove over it on your way to B/Park or you may have gone through Waihi, any way the bike people say that hill is the best in NZ to go up & get the corners correct [not speeding up but flowing]as you say it gives abuzz.
Steve my bike does not arrive until next month , hot rod Harley lol, I realize it is not the best handling with the big rear tyre, I am only just getting my bike licence , but better get my confidence [by law] on a little bike first , pitty you were not here we could go for a ride , not to mention us going for a skid in yr GTHO ???

[Grant Sprague]

Parnelli , yeessssss I understand what Steve is saying & you . SSooooooooo looking forwards to the new lease of life ... I really do relate ..... I did ride bikes in my teen & loved them , my family was against them ????

[Steve Emson]

If you need to explain, they would'nt understand !!!!!!

I guess that says it all!

[CUSTAXIE50]

Thanks for pointing out the wrong track on 30-03-13 should read Pukekohe so I have edited it. And John Telford didn't mention he had a Late model nascar engine in it---- why would you do that??? oh well guess I will have to call him again and check on that. Bugger--- might be one off that list. Thanks for the heads up Custaxie50 How did you get on with John Telford and his RX7 mazda.

[Steve Emson]

Just read through most of this thread. Reminds me of the meetings I called to try and get group N happening here in Queensland. Forget the handicap races unless you want a big accident. I can think of 4 times I was completely on the grass at Lakeside because of the speed differential.
I created a points score system based on consistency of lap times, PB's and passing points to determine the overall winner of the Queensland cup. It worked perfectly (due to my amazing wife doing the scoring) and kept all the slower car competitors keen, motivated and racing!
The fields just built and built and it is a very popular category now. The first winner of the Queensland cup was Rhonda Burrows in her Mini Cooper, beating all the men!

if you want to do something like that it was easy to do. I wanted to make sure the fastest car did not win this series. Why? because although I could be very consistent, (got points for that) I could not get any points for passing, as i was out front.

At Lakeside, even scratch races had risk. My car was lapping the other cars within 3 laps. Lakeside is a twisty track. They would look in the mirror and be clear, however the Falcon GTHO was on them in a flash. hence my excursions onto the grass with all 4 wheels under the bridge. Very very dicey stuff.

Can I share this story with you,

A long, long time ago at a race track far away, (Wigram) a very young guy traveled down to the South Island with his mates on a racing holiday. He was racing a Fiat 128 in the NZ Castrol GTX Championship, and decided to enter the only race he could for this meeting. It was the 0-6000cc BNSW championship race. He started off but was soon left behind by the fastest racing saloons in NZ. He looked in the mirror a lot, but never saw anyone behind. He was going around the hanger section of Wigram and still saw no one coming around to lap him. Moments later the leaders were upon him with the 2 leading cars taking evasive action and going outside the red cones (knocking them all down) to try and miss the little 128.
Lesson learnt. I nearly caused a f^%$# big accident because of the ridiculous speed differential. My car would be howling down the back straight at 86mph, while the other cars were doing more like 160mph.
Very dumb! And i thought I was looking out for them..............and I was. It was a good thing that the driver of the Cologne Capri was my Dads business partner and also my God father, or I may have got my arse kicked that day.

Get the cars out. You have a big problem as people want to do well. Find a way to keep it interesting. Using a Qld cup style of pointscore you do not need handicaps.
First rule------Have fun
Second rule ------enjoy the cars

[Steve Emson]

George,

By the way I envy you having the mustang. That car is one of the biggest regrets of my racing exploits. I had a choice to make. Buy the Sidchrome Mustang and move to Australia or buy the formula pacific that I did.
My Shellsport team were all going to move over with me if I bought the Mustang. As JR told Neville Bailey my main man, we would not win against Moffat and Co but we would get noticed. I was 19 years old at the time and who knows.

Anyway George, glad you have the car, you are the right guy to look after it.

[John McKechnie]

George not only bought the car, he has kept it since- that is dedication.

[George Sheweiry]

Hi Steve, I was racing my ex Fancevic ho back then, I was 20 at the time when I saw the old girl at Geoff Sutherlands paint shop. He pointed me towards Jerry Claytons and the next thing you know I was the proud owner. I am an electrician by trade and the appliance repair guy where I worked at Rankin McManus Electrical opposite Charlie Coways Chequred flag cars on Dominion rd had just bought a Beazley section in Glendene for $3,500. and had a Beazley house built on it for $15,000 and I managed to scrape together $9,500 for the mustang. so it was 1/2 a house back then, but I was wrapped but the neighbors were'nt, as I did like to do the odd "street meet" then! Unlike most clever people I have kept pretty much all my old race cars but now I am 57 and 28 race and muscle cars is probably a bit over the top so i am probably going to have to move a few on. And there in lies the dilemma. "which ones"

[Grant Sprague]

George [re which ones] you have free choice to which one or ones [to sell] if you desire , I understand you have looked after the metal, ... like us [most here] there has been some very valuable cars past through our hands,at the end of the day mmmmmmm [3
d thinking lol ] it really matters not............... , because you know they will be looked after ........ . My wife is funeral director I keep reminding , friends & people a like there are no roof racks & tow bars on hearsts............... .enjoy the present moment....... go & skid some tyres mate ......have fun ......... Grant

[Steve Emson]

Hi Steve, I was racing my ex Fancevic ho back then, I was 20 at the time when I saw the old girl at Geoff Sutherlands paint shop. He pointed me towards Jerry Claytons and the next thing you know I was the proud owner. I am an electrician by trade and the appliance repair guy where I worked at Rankin McManus Electrical opposite Charlie Coways Chequred flag cars on Dominion rd had just bought a Beazley section in Glendene for $3,500. and had a Beazley house built on it for $15,000 and I managed to scrape together $9,500 for the mustang. so it was 1/2 a house back then, but I was wrapped but the neighbors were'nt, as I did like to do the odd "street meet" then! Unlike most clever people I have kept pretty much all my old race cars but now I am 57 and 28 race and muscle cars is probably a bit over the top so i am probably going to have to move a few on. And there in lies the dilemma. "which ones"

You will figure it out. The price i was told for the mustang and trailer was more than you paid. I did pay $11,000 for the pacific however. You are right, that was a lot back then. I do have a 69 Fastback (sportsroof) in my garage, and have had it for years. Since you have the one I really wanted, it is better than nothing!
Actually there is a really neat story to the one I have. Short version is it has a compliance plate by Ford Australia, and another build tag with EX AUSTRALIA stamped on it.
The story goes, and I have checked this story with the original owner and mustang club officials as follows. The original owner travelled to the States to buy a 69 sportsroof. He went to the Ford factory and was shown around, however told that they had switched to the 1970 production line. The owner said he did NOT want a 70 but one with the 4 headlamps (1969). They said sorry..........While he was in the factory he saw a 69 shell in the corner of some room. He said what is that car, and was told it had been taken off the assembly line as it has a defect in the build. He said put it back on the line and I will pay $1,000 over list for it. They did, and he did.
It was put back on the line and came off the line with some 1970 parts on it, which it still has to this day. This story has remained consistent in mustang club circles since the car arrived in Australia. The defect is in the welding of the roof left hand side gutter rail. It is funny when you over hear mustang gurus say that so in so parts should not be on this car. If only they knew the story.
So, I have possibility the only 69 Mustang in the world that left the factory amongst the 1970 cars! That makes it extremely valuable George, however you cannot have it as I have bequeathed it to my daughter Krystal. Pitty, as if you gave me $xxxx plus the Sidchrome car I may have considered it. - Ha Ha!

[Grant Sprague]

You will figure it out. The price i was told for the mustang and trailer was more than you paid. I did pay $11,000 for the pacific however. You are right, that was a lot back then. I do have a 69 Fastback (sportsroof) in my garage, and have had it for years. Since you have the one I really wanted, it is better than nothing!
Actually there is a really neat story to the one I have. Short version is it has a compliance plate by Ford Australia, and another build tag with EX AUSTRALIA stamped on it.
The story goes, and I have checked this story with the original owner and mustang club officials as follows. The original owner travelled to the States to buy a 69 sportsroof. He went to the Ford factory and was shown around, however told that they had switched to the 1970 production line. The owner said he did NOT want a 70 but one with the 4 headlamps (1969). They said sorry..........While he was in the factory he saw a 69 shell in the corner of some room. He said what is that car, and was told it had been taken off the assembly line as it has a defect in the build. He said put it back on the line and I will pay $1,000 over list for it. They did, and he did.
It was put back on the line and came off the line with some 1970 parts on it, which it still has to this day. This story has remained consistent in mustang club circles since the car arrived in Australia. The defect is in the welding of the roof left hand side gutter rail. It is funny when you over hear mustang gurus say that so in so parts should not be on this car. If only they knew the story.
So, I have possibility the only 69 Mustang in the world that left the factory amongst the 1970 cars! That makes it extremely valuable George, however you cannot have it as I have bequeathed it to my daughter Krystal. Pitty, as if you gave me $xxxx plus the Sidchrome car I may have considered it. - Ha Ha! heheh Steve that is an interesting read , I love the 70,s shape, I see you are into deals etc , might offer you one of my massy fergie tractors for it [love a bit of humour lol ]... I am half way through fixing a leak on the diesel pump..... I will throw in the mower that hangs off the back as I have known you a while & trust the mustang had a good weld job , but will need to see the repair cert as it will be turned into an other sid chrome replica.... [not sure but is is same body shape ] ?? Trust you & family good .. keep up the fun ........keep laughing ............Grant

[Steve Emson]

This is a picture of the car, complete with the 1970 body molding and bonnet stripe. Must be one of the best looking body shapes ever made, surely. I bought this one in about 1995. It was at a racing car show that my HQ Holden was being displayed at. I remember walking around it, got my mobile out, called my wife Yvonne, and said what do you reckon. She said, "Buy it". How is that for a supportive wife?
My passion inspired by the Moffat/Richards race cars.

18989
It isn't the famous Sidchrome Mustang that I should have bought back in 1976/77. but it is still a great looking unrestored 69, don't you think?

[Grant Sprague]

Yes , beautiful car for sure no doubt about it , love that shape............. not sure what engine size... 302 ...351 ?.....how many K,s [miles]...... Looks very original............... Steve last year I had a 1967 fast back had a shaker in the bonnet big wheels , mean looking thing lol I bought off a chap from the Mount ,289 ci I thought , in my spare time I will restore it ....... [WHAT SPARE TIME] she was a bit rough around the edges & thought shit what have I done ... any way the same guy phoned me up 2 yrs later & wanted it back ...... I had a few trinkets lying around you would have liked but flicked them all over a period of 10 yrs have no regrets at all .. one left...... . Steve your wife sounds like mine you are blessed because I feel I am , happy wife happy life...... If you get to lake side , you will see Dale,s mustang there , think its the same shape ,make your self known , Dale is from Tauranga , great Guy .

[Rod Grimwood]

Must have the same taste buds Steve, only difference is those little girls are now 25 and 23 and there was too many toys in shed way back then so mummy won. Give a nut to have it now. (should have then, but reckon if it had stayed I may have lost one or both for sure).
Bonus is the house looks the same and other couple of toys are still in shed.

[Ellis]

They are admired world wide...even in a shed close by in Tassie

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/falcongtho/BossVelo8-07_zpsa6244f56.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/falcongtho/media/BossVelo8-07_zpsa6244f56.jpg.html)

[John McKechnie]

Rod- thats a beautiful dog you have in the photo.

[George Sheweiry]

Just did a little photo presentation to put on here, only took me a day by the time I found all the photos and made them into a gallery type viewing then tried and tried and tried to load them on here but this moth-- f-----r wont let me load it so gotta go now because wife wont be happy with axe through screen number 4!!! adios

[Grant Sprague]

yep George, I could not crop mine down , got a few of first competitions etc , they will get posted this year lol.... Hey Rod, I remember well two old post war GP cars my Dad use to own & Race , Alfa & Mazza ...... Now worth Millions of pounds..... some one once said to him Quote........ I bet you wished you still owned them..... His reply was with a grin "mate ' if you keep looking back you end up with a sore neck" that was Ernie................ any way life moves on , don't get to stuck on things.......... your Kids don't have a price tag they [cars] do ??? [Mind you they sure are nice to look at , a piece of art is how I see beautiful cars , just neat to view with out looking after them] George so looking forwards to seeing your collection .. what happened to Cedies Muzzies they a show pieces & very collectables as well , Moffett called into see them a couple year back in Matatmata.

[Rod Grimwood]

Rod- thats a beautiful dog you have in the photo.

Yep he was a beaut, that was about 18 years ago John, his name was Grizz, kids named him, pity was he got run over in a freak accident. No one hung around our area when he was there.

[Rod Grimwood]

Guys send me a email grimmie64@xtra.co.nz and i will send you the site to do your cropping/resizing and talk you through first couple and then show you how to post.

Grant Ceddie still has them, and Moffat reckoned that Cedric had more of his old gear than he had. He couldn't believe the Weslake gear and remembers selling to Cedric.

Cheers

[Grant Sprague]

Rod, Will do ....are you going to be at the V 8 super tourers 31st aug ...1 st sept Taupo ??Send you E mail soon & thanks . ps Re Ced yep he showed me over his 4 cars plus, many times ..... just needed to stand clear of the infamous fridge club bar..... A die hard Ford man , he loved Ernie to bits.....knocked him back a bit when FE .. departed

[Rod Grimwood]

Yep Grant, we all enjoyed the company of Ernie, and it knocked a lot of us, good days those.
Ernie and his little dog, what a couple of rascals.
Got caught a couple of times at that bar.

[Steve Holmes]

On the subject of old racing 69/70 Mustang's here are a couple of pics you guys might enjoy from an upcoming photo collection I'll be posting here, all taken by Allan Cameron:

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19023

[fullnoise68]

Steve, is that John Riley in the ex Dennis Marwood Camaro beside Jim Richards? If so this would have been just before his `engineering guru' from Papatoetoe did to the suspension and handling of that car, as to what Adam did to Eve!

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, thats exactly right Steve, its Riley in the ex/Joe Chamberlain/Dennis Marwood Camaro that had the subframe mods done to it. I'm not sure if this was before or after the 'upgrades', this was from late 1973.

Also pictured in the top shot which has Allan Moffat leading, is Pete Geoghegan in the Super Falcon, with Frank Gardner giving chase in the SCA Freight Camaro over from the UK. Gardner took this car to Australia after it'd done Bay Park and Pukekohe, raced it, then sold it.

In the second shot, behind Graham Baker in the PDL Mustang with its pink colours and high detail lace paint, is Red Dawson in the Kensington Carpets Camaro, Aussie Jim McKeown in the Porsche, then Riley and Jim Richards. Note also in the background the 'Lina-Mint' HQ Monaro of Neville Crichton. This was a Castrol GTX production racer, bought as the replacement for the similar Monaro Jandals Sheehan did his Dukes Of Hazard in. This car later was sold to Don Scott in Palmerston North, and is now in Western Australia, after its current owner bought it in rough condition on Trademe. He is a member on this forum.

[fullnoise68]

I`m sure there`s another photo on one of the other threads after the Riley Camaro was `revolutionised' where it was white with blue stripes and still No 50. Anyway.......

[Steve Holmes]

Yes thats right Steve, it started the 1974 season in the colour scheme pictured above, and after several off-track and car-to-car adventures, was painted orange with a yellow stripe, then white with a blue stripe.

[John McKechnie]

Steve- on post 193, you show Moffatt and co. What is the date of this meeting does anyone know?
On November 14 1971, the program shows Moffatt number 9 [Coke colours in your 193 he is 4] and Geoghegan [white ]were running at the Dunlop International, no Gardner entered.
How many times did Moffatt come here and the dates ,in this Mustang , any takers?

[Rod Grimwood]

2 or 3 John he ran in silver Brut colours last time at Bay Park and Puke. Geoghegan is in Grace bros colours in photo

[Steve Holmes]

Steve- on post 193, you show Moffatt and co. What is the date of this meeting does anyone know?
On November 14 1971, the program shows Moffatt number 9 [Coke colours in your 193 he is 4] and Geoghegan [white ]were running at the Dunlop International, no Gardner entered.
How many times did Moffatt come here and the dates ,in this Mustang , any takers?

John, the date for that event pictured above of Moffat and co would be December 31, 1972. It was the Bay Park Xmas meeting.

Someone may correct me on this, but I believe Moffat first raced the Mustang in NZ at that November 1971 event at Puke you referred to. Unfortunately they had virtually no competition as several of the Kiwi's had actually gone to race in Australia! Geoghegan was racing his '67 Mustang GTA at this event. I believe this was the last time Geoghegan ever raced that car. Moffat's Mustang stayed in NZ, and according to magazine reports, our very own Wally Wilmott prepared it so Moffat could run it at the Bay Park Xmas meeting. After Bay Park he ran it at the NZIGP at Pukekohe.

He returned to NZ the following season to run at the 1972 Bay Park Xmas meeting, as pictured above, plus the NZIGP at Pukekohe in early 1973.

For the NZ 1973/74 season, he returned again, this time with the car painted silver and green with Brut 33 sponsorship, and ran at the Bay Park Xmas meeting, and the Lady Wigram Trophy event at Wigram in January 1974.

Then in the 1974/75 season, he returned once again with the Mustang now in blue/white/red Union Travel colours, and ran at the Bay Park Xmas meeting and the Lady Wigram event. The Wigram event was the last time he ever raced the Mustang. This was January 1975.

I think I got that about right?

[John McKechnie]

Steve H- I think you have that Nov 1971 meeting right.
NZ competition against the Aussies were John Riley- Mustang, Rod Coppins- Camaro, Dexter Dunlop- Mustang and Jim Carlyle- Monaro.
Any body got results from this Trans-Tasman clash?
So Fahey and Dawson were in Australia at this time? I remember about this time Mrs Dawson writing to Motorman saying Red had not blown a motor as reported , just oiled the plugs.
Always liked Moffatt in Coke colours- Alan Boyles Mini and Viva never looked as hot.

[Steve Holmes]

There were three races at that November Puke event; two were scratch races, the other a handicap. Moffat won both the scratch races from Geoghegan. Their main opposition was Rod Coppins in the Camaro, but he blew a head gasket while leading the first race, and although he crossed the line in 3rd, he was out for the rest of the event. The only other real opposition was John Riley in the ex-Fahey Mustang, but he wasn't really on the pace of the two Aussie cars in the first race, then his diff failed in the second. But after a big effort to fix the diff between races, he did manage to win the handicap from Geoghegan and Jim Richards in his production GTHO.

Other than Coppins and Riley, there was really no other opposition. The field was made up of the 4.2 litre cars of Alan Boyle, Don Halliday, Peter Sundberg etc. Fahey (Escort) and Dennis Marwood (Camaro) were in Australia. I'm not sure why Dawson wasn't there, it might be that he'd sold the Mustang by that stage, as he would have been nearly finished building up his new Camaro.

There was no mention of either Dunlop or Carlyle in the race review, but they might have been there somewhere but just further down the field?

Unfortunately this wasn't a classic Trans-Tasman battle.

[John McKechnie]

Steve H- you are to congratulated for finding the answers and posting them so quickly to help out us working guys as we have our lunch break- better service than at many fast food outlets.

[Steve Holmes]

Ha ha ha, thanks John.

[Grant Sprague]

Geeeeees John & Steve , are you both transcending into the 5th Dimension & dragging this out of the ether...... perhaps you are both doing TM [like me ] lol

[George Sheweiry]

Here are some photos of most of the peoples cars who promised to be at the first meeting.190401904119042190431904419045

[George Sheweiry]

19050

19051

19052

19053

19054

19055

[George Sheweiry]

19058

19057

19056

19059
Sorry about all the different sizes but this site wouldn't let me put them on any different ( that's just Dumb !!)

[Steve Holmes]

Those appear to be the actual size of the images George, not the site doing weird things to their sizes.

[George Sheweiry]

Nope, I'm afraid not Steve, for instance the Roger Davis Torana I had to decrease to 1/8 of its size to fit on!

[Ellis]

I sent this pic to George a few years ago.....pic courtesy of Perry Drury in Launceston Tas

It looked the goods then and I seen some of it recently at HD ? and it still is the Bees Knees.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/falcongtho/46_zpsb26046a4.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/falcongtho/media/46_zpsb26046a4.jpg.html)

Here is another Perry Drury pic......

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/falcongtho/03_zps869d63fc.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/falcongtho/media/03_zps869d63fc.jpg.html)

[Rod Grimwood]

Nope, I'm afraid not Steve, for instance the Roger Davis Torana I had to decrease to 1/8 of its size to fit on!

Hopefully Roger has a good size photo of this car, it is a neat thing, all built by them. Be great to see it again

[Steve Holmes]

Nope, I'm afraid not Steve, for instance the Roger Davis Torana I had to decrease to 1/8 of its size to fit on!

George, you're reducing the image dimensions to get them to fit when you should be reducing the image file sizes. That way you can make the dimensions as large as you like, within reason. All discussion forums have image file size limits, as each owner of the forum (me, in this case) has to pay for a hosting package. Also, if the image file sizes get too large, the pages take forever to load and people get frustrated.

Because The Roaring Season is image heavy with lots of photo collections etc, I've made the maximum image size a lot larger than most forums. Most will have a maximum of 95 - 120kb, The Roaring Season is 170kb.

You can email the images to me and I'll resize them for you to fit, without loss of dimension size, or alternatively, use an image hosting site, such as Imageshack or Tinypic.

[Steve Holmes]

They are admired world wide...even in a shed close by in Tassie

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/falcongtho/BossVelo8-07_zpsa6244f56.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/falcongtho/media/BossVelo8-07_zpsa6244f56.jpg.html)

Wow, that is cool!

[Steve Holmes]

George,

By the way I envy you having the mustang. That car is one of the biggest regrets of my racing exploits. I had a choice to make. Buy the Sidchrome Mustang and move to Australia or buy the formula pacific that I did.
My Shellsport team were all going to move over with me if I bought the Mustang. As JR told Neville Bailey my main man, we would not win against Moffat and Co but we would get noticed. I was 19 years old at the time and who knows.

Anyway George, glad you have the car, you are the right guy to look after it.

That is an awesome story Steve! But I reckon, even if you did buy the Sidchrome, you'd probably still have regrets, because eventually you would have sold it to buy something quicker eventually?

[George Sheweiry]

Apparently, according to jandals, when the car arrived back in NZ it went to Trevor Mcleans workshop at Takanini where he and jandals checked it out as Trevor was interested in buying it but after looking it over he decided against it. Anyway one thing is for sure it wont be a "trailer Queen" in my hands! Yes historic racing cars are worth a lot of money but I just cant see the point in owning a historic racer just to be able to say that you own it and bask in its former glory poncing around at shows or race events, cause people want to see and hear those old Big bangers snarling around the race track. Those people are just depriving us of seeing these neat old cars doing what they were built for and should sell them to someone who will use them accordingly. " oh no its too nice to race" !!! and all the other excuses, those people are either too tight or haven't got the balls to race them. This new race series is the cheapest form of racing of these types of cars you could possibly do. We will all go out there and give it our best shot but at the same time look after these neat old cars and there will still be the after race banter of, well I nearly had you coming out of the sweeper! or wow you got me under brakes but I got you back on the straight! You guys who have been there you know what I am talking about. Just the great comradery and excitement of manhandling a fiery beast around the track in close combat and then coming in to shoot the shit at the end of the day. Nine weeks to go!! can't wait!!

[Rod Grimwood]

George, may be we can get a big old water truck and do the track for the second race so little fellas can tickle you big bullies up a little.
loved that one at Bay Park years back when you had just got the Stang and it rained, boy that was fun, your arms were like a bungy cord (one way then quick back the other) going down the straight. Noticed over time your right foot became alot better co-ordinated with the movement of the car.
Good times alright. Have you organized a group fridge.

[John McKechnie]

Better still Rod, take the circus to Waikaraka Park. You know how to navigate the track in a water truck.
People will be more worried about the walls than the other cars. Graham Addis, Barry Algie, you and others all know the track.
What breed was Grizz, he looks so close to my Bear?

[John McKechnie]

George- " oh no its too nice to race" !!- I got asked the other day when I take the Monaro to a Concourse event , how will it score on the clipboard?
Wrong person, wrong car.
Hell, I am just trying to patch up an old real rusty race car to get it back on the track, its natural habitat.

[George Sheweiry]

Well yes they were good times, but what i think some people cant get their heads around is that now there is going to be more good times. So get to work John, Rod and the rest of you boys putting your cars back together cause we're about to put the smiles back on your faces!!!

[Rod Grimwood]

John, He was Black Lab, ate very well and loved riding in the ute and bit of humour in the boat as well.

yea done couple of laps back then in truck, Wally Page was the man, on thursday and friday we would flood the track for saturday and he used to have the old green beast all crossed up with water going every where. The closest I got to driving a 'A Grader' was the yellow one with the blade.

[Steve Emson]

Apparently, according to jandals, when the car arrived back in NZ it went to Trevor Mcleans workshop at Takanini where he and jandals checked it out as Trevor was interested in buying it but after looking it over he decided against it. Anyway one thing is for sure it wont be a "trailer Queen" in my hands! Yes historic racing cars are worth a lot of money but I just cant see the point in owning a historic racer just to be able to say that you own it and bask in its former glory poncing around at shows or race events, cause people want to see and hear those old Big bangers snarling around the race track. Those people are just depriving us of seeing these neat old cars doing what they were built for and should sell them to someone who will use them accordingly. " oh no its too nice to race" !!! and all the other excuses, those people are either too tight or haven't got the balls to race them. This new race series is the cheapest form of racing of these types of cars you could possibly do. We will all go out there and give it our best shot but at the same time look after these neat old cars and there will still be the after race banter of, well I nearly had you coming out of the sweeper! or wow you got me under brakes but I got you back on the straight! You guys who have been there you know what I am talking about. Just the great comradery and excitement of manhandling a fiery beast around the track in close combat and then coming in to shoot the shit at the end of the day. Nine weeks to go!! can't wait!!

That could be right, as around this time Neville Bailey discussed the Mustang with me. We were just down the road from Trevor's. Also Neville also told me I could have the ex Rosberg Chevron for $2000 more than the Modus, (which was being repaired by Phil Sharp. Every time he drove it it seemed to get 'bent' ). We were just trying to decide what to do, or which way to jump.

Boy,............that was a while ago now.

Yes guys, get those cars out on the track were they belong. George has the right idea.

[George Sheweiry]

19167191631916419165OK some more people to confirm for the inaugural meeting and the series, John Dennehy(ex Halliday/Woolf TC Escort or Aston Zagato19166) Larry Young Sunbeam Talbot, also to run in the series but away for the first meet, Raydon Smith (ex Richards TC Escort)

[kiwi285]

This class hasn't even hit the track yet George and look at the cars coming out of the woodwork. There are several cars that I never saw in period and am looking forward to seeing and hearing them in action.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Ohhhh, I think I shall be flagging at these race meetings.....it's gonna be neat to watch!!!

[George Sheweiry]

1921419215
Okay guys, a bit more. As i said to you before I have put my name to this so I am determined for it to work. I had seen this turn key 78 mustang race car on trade me for 16K and couldnt believe that no one had bought it by now so I thought buggar I bet me old mate Alan Ferguson would run that at the inaugural meet if I asked him and sure enough he said yes!! So I did the deal and blow me down the guy Phillip Macey who I bought it off, I sold one of the engines from my old Metro Magazine / Francevic Falcon XE to for his DJR tru blu tribute car, and he did a nice job of it as I saw it at the Leadfoot while running the mighty comet. When I told him what it was for he said wow would my car be eligible to run as it would suit him at the moment to do 1 day events as he was quite busy with his work. Dam right I said!!! so now I have 2 more cars for the inaugural HSS race and I do believe that now puts us at 22. You Beauty.

[George Sheweiry]

Just a little note of interest, way back end of last year Bob White the ACC president asked me if I could have the Sidchrome Mustang and the Mercury Comet on the ACC display for this weekends CRC speedshow so seeing as how we now have this new class to promote I have had some stickers made up and some blurb sheets on the details of when where how, what cars to expect etc and I will take time off everything else I am doing at the moment to be there for the full 2 days. I will do some snooping and find out what times will be the busiest and right in the middle of that I, with the help of my daughter Brittany are going to fire them up and give them a quick "Red Dawson tune up" woomaa--woomaa--woomaa Reckon that ill stop em dead in their tracks eh. Might even turn the heads of a few "TWISTYS" (kids with their hats on backwards) Oooh yeeaa!! And hey If your having a look around there, be sure to come over and say hello. Cheers, George.

[Ellis]

George
Hope the breeze is blowing towards Tassie...I'll keep an ear out
Well done
Ellis

[Rod Grimwood]

Can someone video the 'Sheweiry tune up' please.

[George Sheweiry]

So we had the first day of the CRC speedshow today. My daughter Brittany and I handed out 1/2 of the 1000 stickers and 850 blurb sheets and I swear that If this isnt going to be one of the biggest days spectators for the ACC then I will eat my hat. One of the amazing things was just how many had followed The Roaring Season thread on the class and had already jotted the dates down in their diary. It was all positive comments and seems a welcome addition for spectating. I would like to thank all of you who came up and introduced yourselves and I am looking forward to tommorow. Cheers, George. Ps the "Red Dawson Tuneups" went down a treat !!

[George Sheweiry]

195261952719528Well Sunday carried on pretty much the same as Saturday and we handed out the rest of the stickers and blurb sheets. I managed another 7 Red Dawson tuneups before I got told for the second time not to so I thought that had better do! It was only at the end of the show when I realised I hadnt taken a pic of the ACC display, and I took a pic of the sticker we were handing out as well

[George Sheweiry]

While at the show Simon Ussher introduced himself and inquired if his 355 Chev powered Vauxhall Chevette Sports Sedan would be eligible and if so he would be able to run at the inaugural meeting, so I signed him up and that now makes our total 23 cars, here is a pic of his good looking Chevette19529

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, that V8 Chevette has a bit of history to it doesn't it George?

[Shoreboy57]

George - loved the tune-ups (even if the organiser's didn't). Loved your passion and bring on the first race

[John McKechnie]

Is Simon Ussher #232 any relation to Malcolm Ussher who raced a production Hillman Imp and an A40 in the South Island around 1969?

[George Sheweiry]

To be honest Steve I am not sure, I do recall a green one but not sure what it was powered by and Rod Grimwood called in yesterday for a catch up and we discussed the one his brother had that was powered by a rover V8. But it certainly looks like a neat bit of kit and i cant wait to see how it goes

[George Sheweiry]

Hi there Shoreboy, thanks for the kind words, and Im with you. that 1st race just cant come quick enough!! I cant wait to post a photo of the actual grid sitting on the start line waiting for the flag drop. And on the same day there is Production Muscle cars, Northern Muscle Cars, Modified Saloons and Production Saloons with spectator entry for the day 5 bucks. How goods that??

[George Sheweiry]

Hi Johney, I dont know if they are related but I guess you will be able to ask him that for yourself on the day. Hows that Monaro coming along. I had never seen that photo of it sitting in the puke infield before With that Team Cambridge color scheme and the Daisy wheels That has to be the pettiest looking Monaro I have ever seen and Its no wonder as a kid that was the car of your dreams. I sure hope that is the period you intend to represent as I reckon it was pretty hard to beat the team Cambridge colors!

[John McKechnie]

George- Car had Daisys first , then changed to the Torque Thrusters for the next meeting.
There were many bronze , yellow and orange Monaros, but only one Team Cambridge Monaro.
And that is what it will be restored back to.
Its funny, but the white is was , was not pure white, more like the white on my old 65 Fastback.
So well done then, its still on the car under all the other coats- you also know the excitement of taking a coat off and finding the history you are looking for there.
The doors I am keeping as they are too rusty to repair, but excellent to show people the history.
Progress is satisfactory considering the condition of it was described as -being at the bottom of the ocean for 20 years.
Once again , George , you know what its like to do one of these cars-every one will be there to check the panel work.
But you must leave enough so they will know what it was.

[Snoozin]

Hi George, thanks for the chat at Speedshow, really looking forward to the series... car looks grouse! Here's a shot, just cos. Looking forward to being trackside and shooting the first meet!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/9339219457_df53edc5f7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9339219457/)
IMG_1613 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9339219457/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

If any shots are wanted post event, please get in touch with me and I can organise a set of images :)

[George Sheweiry]

hey, thanks for the kind words there snoozin thats a real cool photo you took of the old girl. I am sure the guys that run at this meeting are gonna want some of your fine snaps, and be sure to come see me in the pits. cheers, George.

[George Sheweiry]

Ok just to keep you up to date, just heard from the man who owns the Trevor Crowe Zap starlet in Tauranga and he says he would be keen to run at some of the race meets for HSS.19767

[Habu]

Ok just to keep you up to date, just heard from the man who owns the Trevor Crowe Zap starlet in Tauranga and he says he would be keen to run at some of the race meets for HSS.19767

Love that car! As an 11 yr old at Pukekohe the Crowe Zap Starlet, and the Huxford Capri were two of my favourite cars.... Yeehaw:cool:

[TonyG]

think this was earlier in its life - no wing !
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img009-2.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/img009-2.jpg.html)

[TonyG]

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/SportsSedansBayparksm-1.jpg (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/TGPhotography/media/Scanned%20Images/SportsSedansBayparksm-1.jpg.html)

[George Sheweiry]

Ok, anyone else besides the 23 drivers who have given their word to be at the first meeting of the HSS, who would like to race at the inaugural meeting we have been asked by the Auckland car club to put in our entries at Motorsport Entries online ,for this meeting asap as they are going to spend some dollars and do some more advertising for the meeting because of the effort that has been put in by our new class but just want a confirmation of entries before they push the boat out. So I have asked the 23 drivers to put their entries in by wed next week to allow the ACC enough time to organize this. I will keep an eye on the entries and post them here on wed night. With only 5 weeks to go we are getting down to the nitty gritty!!! ps; there is 1 entry so far already. any guesses???

[Steve Holmes]

George, have you been in touch with Keith Tunnicliffe in Feilding? He owns the old Ian Munt Chevy V8 Capri.

[George Sheweiry]

Hey thanks for the info Steve, I got straight on the ph and he had heard rumblings about the class and after a quick overview from me about it he said yes he would love to be part of it and run his car however it is in bits at the moment at Roscoes in Palmerston. So it should be all good if Roscoe has anything to do with it as he is a very capable and pleasant guy who has put together some great stuff over the years and what a great car to have in this new series!!

20007

[CUSTAXIE50]

Hey thanks for the info Steve, I got straight on the ph and he had heard rumblings about the class and after a quick overview from me about it he said yes he would love to be part of it and run his car however it is in bits at the moment at Roscoes in Palmerston. So it should be all good if Roscoe has anything to do with it as he is a very capable and pleasant guy who has put together some great stuff over the years and what a great car to have in this new series!!

20007

Tell me what bolts would you replace when rebuilding a race motor.

[George Sheweiry]

Well in a modern build of a race motor the only bolts I replace are the rod bolts in the H beam rods after 3 seasons use, I cant say I have had problems with anything else, but then maybe the things I build don't have enough horsepower!! After all as I have said before I am just an electrician that likes to build his own stuff and I just learnt from mistakes. Ps; still learning lol