Indy Roadsters

[Michael Clark]

I was speaking to a fellow 'TRSer' this afternoon and suggested he would love to indulge himself in some quality You Tube time looking at highlights of the Indianapolis 500 during the Roadster period - as I had done over part of Easter.

I rather got the impression my friend wouldn't be interested in even the 2 to 3 minute highlight package, let alone the 15 - 20 minute versions I watched for all 12 Indy 500s where a Roadster led.

I cannot precisely explain what it is about these cars and the era that have captivated me so but there is no doubt part of the attraction is the personalities involved - drivers, team owners, mechanics, sponsors etc.

This is probably a thread that will sink without trace - but if you have a few moments, and are remotely interested - have a look at a highlight package. Pick a year between 1952 and 1964 and see if you can stop at just one after watching it...

[jim short]

There is a man in Rotorua building one ,that will bring back some fun again

[Michael Clark]

There is a real one at Beachlands!

[jim short]

The one in Rotorua is real and from the USA,just needs a bit more work to make it fly

[Michael Clark]

Interesting - I wonder what sort and what the history is.

I thought I'd sat in the only one in NZ!

[bry3500]

I love the roadsters as well.. not sure if this one qualifies in the beauty stakes though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdRY__lLu0

[AMCO72]

Jim, we have a new multi-million dollar velodrome being built here in Cambridge for the 6 cyclists that live in town!! I should think there will be plenty of time between training sessions that the Indy Roadster could be put through it's paces. Could be worth watching.

Remember the 'Belond Exhaust Spl'........and the STP turbine....some good names the Yanks thought up for these machines.

[ERC]

My favourite name was the Dean Van Lines Special. It wasn't until I made my first trip to the US that I found out that it was Dean Van Lines, and not Dean van Lines (as in a Dutchman!)

Does this count? The Monzanapolis Lister Jaguar? Taken at the Goodwood Revivival 2009

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Or from the 1996 Goodwood Festival of Speed

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[Howard Wood]

What about Norm Hall, ran in 1964 in a Watson which he entered as the "Nothing Special".

The Roadster era was doomed from the moment Jack Brabham took his Tasman spec Cooper to Indy in 1961, complete with 2.7 Climax making 280hp on a good day. The Yanks initially laughed at the car but after running 3rd at one point and finally finishing 9th, the laughing was a bit hollow.

Jim Clark and Lotus of course then went and did the job properly but it was Black Jack thinking outside the square who sowed the idea.

[Michael Clark]

Absolutely right Howard - next month marks two significant roadster anniversaries - it is 60 years since the first roadster victory, and 50 years since Jim Clark seriously rattled the dinosuars with what they called 'his funny car'.

[nigel watts]

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[Michael Clark]

Yes that is the car I sat in at Beachlands - it was the Bob Cortner car in which he was killed when freak gust of wind caught it during qualifying for the 1959 Indy 500.

I know it looks prehistoric alongside a Cooper or Lotus - but so do 250Fs, D50s and 246s, yet that doesn't diminish their appeal.

[AMCO72]

Did these Guys have seat-belts in those days? All the Roadsters seem to have a large padded piece in the middle of the steering wheel. Dont think it would do much good in the event of a crash.

The history of that car would make it a sad car. Don't think I could buy a car knowing that it had killed someone.
Prehistoric they may have been, but don't they look the part with all the colours and sign-writing.

16 inch wheels Dale........LoL.....

[nigel watts]

I know it looks prehistoric alongside a Cooper or Lotus - but so do 250Fs, D50s and 246s, yet that doesn't diminish their appeal.

I've always liked the look of these roadsters too. I can't imagine it'd be that easy getting hold of one in the States

[ERC]

Even the name "Offenhauser" engenders a bit of spirit! We sometimes used to listen to the live commentary on dad's short wave radio!

[Dave Silcock]

I can reccomend Smokey Junick's 3 books if you all are interested in this period of Indy racing. He states that if you let the steering wheel go when the engine was up to speed, you would be lucky to get a grip of it again, as the engine vibration made the rim grow to about 4 " in diamater! Those Offies were 4.2 litres and only 4 cylinders.

[Michael Clark]

The first type of car to be dubbed 'Roadster' was built by Kurtis for Indy in 1952 - a Cummins Diesel powered version sat on pole but it was the Offy powered one of Bill Vukovich that dominated the race - but didn't win. That went to a converted dirt car - but from 1953 until Jim Clark and Lotus won in 1965, every Indy 500 was won by an Offenhauser powered Roadster.

Yes there were some great names - my favourite was probably the John Zink Track Burner Special. Zink's cars won in 1955 and 56 (Kurtis then the first for a Watson) - there were only a few basic Roadster designs but there were a many builders. A J Watson seemed to be quite happy for other builders to make copies of his designs.

In general terms, Roadsters were either 'uprights', or 'lay-downs'. The Epperley/Salih lay-down design turned up in '57 and the same car won again in '58 but that after that, the 'uprights' won from 59-64, although the lay-downs were still there or thereabouts.

Ray - as to whether the Monzapolis qualifies - that's not up to me to determine but man it is gorgeous.

For what it is worth, here are my top 10 Roadster conductors:

1. Bill Vukovich - won in '53 & '54 and killed during the '55 race. It was Vukie that coined the 'Roadster' nickname.
2. Roger Ward - won in '59 & '62 in Leader Cards Watsons
3. A J Foyt - won in '61 then took the final dinosaur win in '64 - in '61 the 'Bowes Seal Fast Special' was a Trevis chassis - but really a Watson.
4. R P Jones - Rufus Parnell took to Indy like he was born to do it. Won in '63 ahead of Clark in controversial circumstances.
5. Jim Rathmann - won arguably the best Indy 500 ever in 1960 in the 'Ken-Paul' - a story worthy of a film...
6. Jim Bryan - winner in '58 - hard man who was a racer's racer
7. Pat Flaherty - '56 winner
8. Bob Sweikert - won in '55, 6th in '56 and then killed just when he might have been on the verge of greatness
9. Sam Hanks - won in '57 in the 'lay-down' then announced his retirement in victory lane - it had been a long road
10. ?

Rankings 1-9 comprise all the Roadster winners. So who was the best Roadster chaffeur never to win?

For me there are three immediate contenders - in no order:

Tony Bettenhausen, Eddie Sachs and Dick Rathmann. But ther eare others - HEAPS in fact...

[Rod Grimwood]

Just love the shape and muscle look of these period cars.

[Michael Clark]

Jim Hurtibise is another serious contender for the top 10

[bry3500]

Pics ( mostly from 1959) photographers unknown

[bry3500]

More

[Michael Clark]

That's an interesting front row from '59 - #3 is the pole car of Johnny Thompson - a Lesovsky which was a 'left hand drive' Roadster.

In the middle is Eddie Sachs in a Kuzma - Kuzmas were always there or thereabouts but a Kuzma Roadster never won the 500.

On the outside is Jim Rathmann in an upright Watson - all three are Offy powered...in 1959 all 33 starters were , the only exception being that one was a supercharged 168 c.i. (in '55 and '60 every starter was a normally aspirated Offy)

The V8 Novis were the only real opposition but the best finish for one of these was 4th in '57.

[Michael Clark]

The red #82 has got me stumped - any #82 Roadster I can find that started were blue and white/silver..

[Jac Mac]

If its any help the #82 in post#21 would appear to have a Chev SB V8 in it, or at least a V8 with similar porting sequence- pairs of inlets & paired center exhausts.

[Bruce302]

#82 SanDiego Steel (AACA 127) Chenowth Chevy 1961 First 'production' chevy V8 to attempt to qualify for the Indy 500, I believe by Mike McGill
Currently owned and shared with others by Dave Schleppi)

[Michael Clark]

Thanks Bruce - no Chev powered Roadster ever qualified for the 500, but it sure is a beauty

[bry3500]

Footage of the Chenowth Chevy here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=T4nMNjOIRbA&NR=1

[Bruce302]

Indeed the key word is attempt, and I believe it was trying over a 3 year period.

Bruce.


Thanks Bruce - no Chev powered Roadster ever qualified for the 500, but it sure is a beauty

[Steve Holmes]

Great thread Michael. These are some of the most beautiful cars ever to race. My personal favourites are the streamliners, even though they achieved very little success. This is the magnificent Sumar Special, which was also tried without its beautiful streamliner body.

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[Steve Holmes]

Out of interest, when was the first time someone ran a mid-engined car at Indy? Much is made of the impact the Lotus 29 had there, and how the eventual success of Lotus ultimately brought about the end of the roadster, but Lotus first ran at Indy in 1963. Mickey Thompson entered three mid-engined cars for 1962, powered by 215ci Buick production car motors. But there must have been others before this?

[Jac Mac]

Rounds Rocket in 1949? , mid engine & rear wheel drive, but in the modern era I think Brabham in a Cooper might have been first in 1961, 200 laps & 9th place. Having said that I have a nagging feeling that Ive read of a car with an offy before that.

[bry3500]

Rounds Rocket. I also had a feeling that Harry Miller built a mid engine car in the late 30s. I'll have to do some digging.

[Michael Clark]

Nice one Bry - that was 1949, and reasonably good looking. As compared with the 1939 Miller which got trashed in practice

[Michael Clark]

Steve the Sumar Streamliner dates from '55 - that year the Belond Miracle Power Special streamliner made the cut - but sans the cockpit bubble.

As for mid engines - George Bailey made history in '39 when he qualified a Miller mid-engine - and what a simple piece of kit: supercharged and four wheel drive. It qualified 6th but was out after 47 laps.

George Barringer's Tucker Torpedo ran in '46, as did Paul Russo's Fageol Twin Coach Special - it had twin supercharged Offys - the front engine drove the rear wheeels and the rear engine drove the front. It qual'd second but was the first retirement.

Al Miller drove the Preston Tucker thing in '47 and after that, another rear/mid-engined car (because most front engined cars are also 'mid-engined'...I guess) didn't qualify until 1961 when Jack Brabham and the Cooper team arrived.

[stubuchanan]

#82 SanDiego Steel (AACA 127) Chenowth Chevy 1961 First 'production' chevy V8 to attempt to qualify for the Indy 500, I believe by Mike McGill
Currently owned and shared with others by Dave Schleppi)

There were two Chevy V8-engined entries at Indy in 1961, and as has been said, neither qualified.

http://s6.postimg.org/hu0u7zj75/Car_82_1961_500_Chenowth_Chev_V8.jpg (http://postimage.org/)




Floyd Clymer's Yearbook said : "Mike Magill ..(didn't take the flag).. in the Chuck Chenowth Chevy, one of the two entered. They had been having a lot of trouble with the beautiful little car and even (with) the talents of Mickey Thompson in the last few days (of qualifying) they can't seem to get the oil problems solved."

http://s6.postimg.org/mtyafxott/61_Indy_Peterson_Chevy_V8_NQ.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Not sure if the Robert Peterson car ran, there is no indication of who the driver might have been.

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Great thread Michael. These are some of the most beautiful cars ever to race. My personal favourites are the streamliners, even though they achieved very little success. This is the magnificent Sumar Special, which was also tried without its beautiful streamliner body.

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Looks like a Lister at the front! What year is the photo from?

[stubuchanan]

Looks like a Lister at the front! What year is the photo from?

If you "hover" over the photo, it says 1955 Sumar Special. Car in background looks mid-50's. If it is 1955, it's a very nice body for the time.

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Thanks Stu, very nice shape.
Would be great if it is still around, enclosed cockpit etc!

[Michael Clark]

Yup - '55. Underneath is a Kurtis with the inevitable Offy. The car was naked when it qualified 17th and came home 9th.

[ERC]

Looks like a Lister at the front!
My first thought too! I am so glad I grew up in an era where both front and rear engines were the norm, even though the only rear engined ones initially were the 500cc cars.

Overall, I suppose I do prefer the look of the front engines cars, but I also have a soft spot for all the 1961-66 F1 1.5 litre cars.

[bry3500]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=147A0w595lI

[bry3500]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIBodX_hFgE

[bry3500]

Nice one Bry - that was 1949, and reasonably good looking. As compared with the 1939 Miller which got trashed in practice

Cheers Mike - Maybe they had been casting a look in Dr Porsche's direction

[bry3500]

Another interesting one was The Watson Vista Special Jim Rathmann drove in 1962

[Michael Clark]

But not in the race!!

[Neville Milne]

Interesting thread indeed. Tough cars and tougher drivers. Driving a large oval is no cakewalk, as several rookies and F1 drivers soon found out.
I've always been a tad surprised that the name "Offenhauser" has endured..........the man himself had precious little to do with the design and later development of Harry Miller's knock-off of an early Peugeot......in fact I think he sold the whole kit and kaboodle just after WW2.
Meyer and Drake ( and several others that I can't bring to mind right now) possibly deserve most credit for the engine's successes......but the name "OFFY" does have a ring to it.............wouldn.t be QUITE the same, if "Poogewaah" ( to use American pronunciation) or some other, more accurate variant were used.........

GREAT thread

[Michael Clark]

Gee how could I have forgotten to include Troy Ruttman as a top 10 Roadster contender? He won in '52 when very young driving a stretched dirt car after Vukie had led most of the way in the first Offy powered Roadster.

Neville, in addition to the 4.2 Offy 4 and the Novi V8 there was the Sparks 6 cylinder engine which seemingly was an Offy with 2 extra pots. A 183 c.i. (i.e. 3 litre) supercharged Sparks powered the winning car in the 1946 Indy 500 but then from 1947 to 1965, the Offenhauser ruled. By 1949 there was only one Sparks powered entry and none afterwards.

[bry3500]

Rear 55 Dean Van Lines Spl

[Rod Grimwood]

Rear 55 Dean Van Lines Spl

Imagine the centrafugal forces with all that gas washing around in that nice big tank. bet the handling changed as she got empty.

These were big cars driven by big guy's.

[Michael Clark]

For anyone remotely interested, there is an story about Roadsters in the latest issue of NZ Classic Car...

[MarkQ]

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Michael, you might have to name these Indycars.
These were all at the Monterey Historics in 2007, the Indy Roadster was the celerbrated marque.
There must of been 40-50 of them, spectacular cars with their huge Halibrand wheels and
thumping 4 cylinder Offy's.

[MarkQ]

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[MarkQ]

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[MarkQ]

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[MarkQ]

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1962 Indy 500 Winner

[MarkQ]

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[MarkQ]

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1955 Winner - John Zink Special, Kurtis Kraft Offy

[MarkQ]

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I'm a bit of a Smokey Yunick fan so was wrapt to see this car.

[MarkQ]

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AJ Foyts 1964 winning car, the last front engined car to win Indy.

[bry3500]

Thanks for posting Nick - great pics, I'm hoping a grid of roadstars might make it to the Antipodes someday. Love to see them around Phillip Island.

[bry3500]

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Looks like the Bill Cheesbourg-Greenman Casale Special 1959

[bry3500]

Gotta love the names of some of these cars .. ' ' McNamara Chiropractic Special '... the mind boggles

[Michael Clark]

Mark, the first of your photos - car #51, is the one that now lives in Beachlands.

[Michael Clark]

#76 - the black, white and red car - is a Ewing (basically a Watson copy). It ran, briefly, in the 1960 Indy 500 as the 'Joe Hunt Magneto Special'

[Michael Clark]

#56 looks like the Christensen chassis the great Jim Hurtubise drove in the 1960 Indy 500 - the 'Travelon Trailer Special'

Could #39 also be from 1960 - 'Ridgewood Builders Special' Kuzma

[stubuchanan]

#56 looks like the Christensen chassis the great Jim Hurtubise drove in the 1960 Indy 500 - the 'Travelon Trailer Special'

Could #39 also be from 1960 - 'Ridgewood Builders Special' Kuzma

Car 39 doesn't look like the 1960 entry - here is the Ridgewood Builders Special (from the Floyd Clymer 1960 Year Book)

http://s6.postimg.org/3khgktwc1/Bill_Homeier_Car_39_1960.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Car 39 in colour picture has turbocharger - were they used as early as 1960? And colour scheme very different.

Car 56 is indeed the "Travelon Trailer Special" in which Jim Hurtubise set the then record fastest 4-lap qualifying time 2.5 mph or 4 seconds faster than Eddie Sachs' pole position time, but Eddie's was on the first qualifying day and Jim's on the last so he was 23rd on grid.

http://s6.postimg.org/t5tokojjl/Jim_Hurtubise_Car_56_1960.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


Not sure about the colour of the #56 car - reports at the time talk of "that purple car" and B/W photos show an off-white main colour. Perhaps an irridescent pale purple and deeper colour on the details.

http://s6.postimg.org/aerraioz5/Jim_Hurtubise_Pitstop_1960.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Note no air jacks, but several cars had them in 1961 including the Cooper.

Stu

[Michael Clark]

I was never confident of #39 being the 'Whatever Special' - but it was the only roadster I could find that ran 39 at Indy...

As for the Herk's '60 ride, the 'Indy 500 Chronicle' shows the colour (actually color) as "Pink pearl, purple" - lovely.

[stubuchanan]

I have been meaning to return "Hurtubise" by Bob Gates to its owner (my brother). It contains this description of the paint-job.

http://s6.postimg.org/g6rvhnysx/Herk_Hurtubise_Car_Colour.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

They may have been better advised to spend a little more time on the engine than on the paint. The car retired due to an oil leak caused by a painted-over crack in the oil tank, damaged in Jack Turner's crash in the 1959 '500'. 'Ruiz' was Ernie Ruiz, owner of the car and of Travelon Trailers.

Stu

[stubuchanan]

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This #39 car is a 1963 Watson-built roadster driven in the 1966 Indy 500 by Bobby Grim as the Racing Associates Special. It had a 168 cu. in turbocharged Offenhauser engine that year and qualified 15th and finished 7th. In earlier years it had a 252 cu. in engine. Claimed to be the last Roadster to run in the '500', but Jim Hurtubise qualified his own Mallard front engined car in 1968 but lasted only 9 laps in the race. The Mallard (its tail stuck up like a duck!) was a semi monocoque lightweight car with solid axles, and the Herk entered it, perhaps as a joke, well on into the 1970's. He put in a single lap of 176.991 mph in 1972, but had already qualified faster in a rear engined car.

Stu

[Michael Clark]

You are quite right (again) Stu - 1966 #39 maroon and black - (I didn't look late enough)

In 1968 the Mallard - aka 'The Pepsi-Frito Lay Special' was the last Roadster to qualify.

The last Roadster to finish looks like 1965 and Gordie Johncock in the 'Weinberger Homes Special' Watson. He was 5th.

Of Mark's photos, #43 has me stumped.

[stubuchanan]

Of Mark's photos, #43 has me stumped.

Rainy day, couldn't do anything I had planned, so put on my super(?)sleuth hat and looked for car 43.
It should be the 1961 Ray Brady Special (fuel injected). Al Keller was set down as driver, but swapped to #19 Konstant Hot Special in place of Jack Rounds and set 6th fastest qualifying time but late in the piece so ended up 26th on grid. However he had a good race and finished 5th!

I don't know if #43 actually ran, no reference in the Year Book, only a photo of injection "horns".

I found 2 photos of #43 on www.bakerracing.com from 2007 Monterey Historic and these show "Brady" just in front of cockpit. Knowing where to look I could then find it on Mark's #43 photo. Fascinating collection of roadsters, plus a few dirt trackers.

Stu

[Michael Clark]

Yes Stu, it would seem you have nailed it - we can confirm beyond doubt if Mark has a frontal shot showing a black roundel and gold number

[928]

the first version of the 168 CID offy had a roots type supercharger driven by a gear train from the rear of the crankshaft. this is from memry having read a magazine article back in the 60's

This #39 car is a 1963 Watson-built roadster driven in the 1966 Indy 500 by Bobby Grim as the Racing Associates Special. It had a 168 cu. in turbocharged Offenhauser engine that year and qualified 15th and finished 7th. In earlier years it had a 252 cu. in engine. Claimed to be the last Roadster to run in the '500', but Jim Hurtubise qualified his own Mallard front engined car in 1968 but lasted only 9 laps in the race. The Mallard (its tail stuck up like a duck!) was a semi monocoque lightweight car with solid axles, and the Herk entered it, perhaps as a joke, well on into the 1970's. He put in a single lap of 176.991 mph in 1972, but had already qualified faster in a rear engined car.

Stu

[bry3500]

A couple from Milwaukee 1957. First is Shorty Templeman Kurtis Kraft Roadster Midget, the other "City of Miami Beach Special".

[MarkQ]

Michael & Stu,
Sorry I did not take a picture of #43 front on, but I have found that the car was called the 'Roy Brady Special'
from 1957. Did it make the grid for that year?
I know this is a 'Roadster' thread, but I do have a few shots of the Dirt trackers that ran at Indy in earlier years
these were also at Laguna Seca the same year if you guys would be interested?

[Michael Clark]

Mark a car did run in the '57 Indy 500 with #43 but it was a cream and blue H A Chapman entered Kurtis

[Michael Clark]

#43 - The Ray Brady - could be the car that was intended for Carroll Shelby. If that is correct, it never happened and that car never actually qualified for any 500.

[thunder427]

...The 'Legendary ' Dean Jeffries' passed away quietly in his sleep last Sunday........ my 'Mystic' mentor....................Thunder427/MJ

[stubuchanan]

Michael & Stu,
Sorry I did not take a picture of #43 front on, but I have found that the car was called the 'Roy Brady Special'
from 1957. Did it make the grid for that year?
I know this is a 'Roadster' thread, but I do have a few shots of the Dirt trackers that ran at Indy in earlier years
these were also at Laguna Seca the same year if you guys would be interested?

I'm not sure the (Ray) Brady Special ever made the start at Indy. It was there in 1960 as #58 with rookie Lee Drollinger as driver, but he bent it out of shape in practice and didn't qualify. There are photos on Flickr of it at the "Auto Racing Indy 500 Community Day" 21 May 2008. Somewhere it is described as a Kurtis KK500C Offenhauser, and, in 1961 at least, it had fuel injection. Brady (from Norristown, Pa) was a longtime Indy entrant - there was an earlier Brady Special which appeared there from 1950 to 1957. It had a Sharp engine at first and later an Offy.

Stu

[Michael Clark]

May 30 - Memorial Day. Up until the early 70s, the Indy 500 was run on May 30 irrespective of whether it was a Sunday or a Thursday. This means that today is the anniversary of all the guys who lost their lives in the 500 up until the race day was changed to the last Sunday in May.

In particular today I'll be thinking about the greatest Roadster chauffeur of them all - Vukie - Bill Vukovich.

[Michael Clark]

23003

Christmas quiz

Who are they? Two points for him, 88 points for her
What is it - specifically? Ten points

First to 100 - gentlemen, start your keyboards

[GeebeeNZ]

Could it be Howden Ganley and Lynn St James with the AJ Foyt 1961 Indy winning Bowes Seal Fast Special

[Michael Clark]

you're on 90!!

Well done that man

[GeebeeNZ]

is it the 1960 Kurtis Roadster

[Michael Clark]

No...

[Frosty5]

Miller Bowes "Seal fast" Special

[Frosty5]

A.J. Foyt Bowes Seal Fast Kurtis / Offy 1960 Indianapolis 500 Carousel

[RogerH]

The Bowes Seal Fast Special originally built by Frank Kurtis in 1959 as that designer's first 'laydown engine' design. Jud Larson drove the car at Indy in 1959, finishing 29th after becoming involved in Mike Magill's lap 45 crash.

For the 1960 season, Bignotti had Quin Epperly rework the car, designing new framework, front suspension and bodywork. This new Epperly/Kurtis was assigned to twenty-five year old A. J. Foyt. Foyt qualified 16th for the 1960 Indy 500, but went out of the race in 25th place with clutch failure.

[Michael Clark]

Well done guys - why would anyone be surprised that on Christmas Eve, this was nailed in a matter of hours.

I would have got 12 points at best - the fact that GeeBee got Lyn St James is astonishingly good spotting.

The photo was taken a matter of a day or so ago at some Christmas function in the San Francisco 'bay area'.

Today is in fact Howden's 72nd birthday - he'll be here for the Ferrari Festival...and I suspect return the 2015 version.

[Rod Grimwood]

Well done guys - why would anyone be surprised that on Christmas Eve, this was nailed in a matter of hours.

I would have got 12 points at best - the fact that GeeBee got Lyn St James is astonishingly good spotting.

The photo was taken a matter of a day or so ago at some Christmas function in the San Francisco 'bay area'.

Today is in fact Howden's 72nd birthday - he'll be here for the Ferrari Festival...and I suspect return the 2015 version.


As you say Michael, they nailed that quick, GeeBee in my quiz team.
aren't they neat looking cars, and seems there are a lot still around.
Amazing Howden is 72 gee times going by, he still looks like he could pull on the driver suit and go and play.

[Michael Clark]

I'll pass it on Rod...

As I said in the opening post on this thread, there is something about these things...the owners were mostly nutjobs, the cars themselves were insane and the drivers - hell they must have been certifiable. Add to that the zany colour schemes and the dinosaur nature of the them, it was wacky racers in real life!

[928]

yep great cars and great engines 4 cylinders in a properly designed engine. even the later turbo ones retained the same basic design.
you have to love them

[Rod Grimwood]

I'll pass it on Rod...

As I said in the opening post on this thread, there is something about these things...the owners were mostly nutjobs, the cars themselves were insane and the drivers - hell they must have been certifiable. Add to that the zany colour schemes and the dinosaur nature of the them, it was wacky racers in real life!


yep they are in a world of their own, and as you say about drivers being 'Certifiable' that surely would be bonus.

[Michael Clark]

Sorry to say that A J Watson has passed away - 4 days after his 90th birthday.

I wonder what sort of tribute they will have at the 500 in a few weeks time.

[khyndart in CA]

I was recently in the Los Angeles area and was reminded that during the 1950s that 80 % of the Indy roadsters were built by five car builders all within a 25 mile radius of each other and in 1958 the complete Indy 500 field of 33 cars was built by these five southern California chassis builders ; Quin Epperly, Frank Kurtis, Eddie Kuzma, Lujie Lesvosky and A.J. Watson.
These magnificent machines were built in the most modest buildings and some of these structures can still be seen today.
A.J. Watson's shop in Glendale.
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Quin Epperly Racing Shop in Gardena. Ca.
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Frank Kurtis's Kurtis Kraft building back in the day also in Glendale. Ca.
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(Ken Hyndman photo. Laguna Seca 2007 )
That they produced cars like this from such humble workshops just amazes me and I think the only testing would be is when they arrived at Indianapolis a few weeks before the event. No computers or wind tunnels or much in safety equipment back then.

I think that instead of tours to see the homes of film stars in Hollywood they should have tours to see these old race shops plus Traco and Shelby etc. locations. Much more interesting in my opinion !

(Ken Hyndman )

[khyndart in CA]

I forgot to name these roadsters.
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# 76 is a 1962 Watson. " Weinberger Homes Special".

# 35 is a 1948 Kurtis Indy Champ Car.

# 27 is a 1952 Stevens Indy Champ Car.

# 2 is a 1959 Watson Champ Car.

Next # 2 is a 1964 Watson Indy rear engine car.

The far car is # 17 a 1961 Sines Champ Car" Bell Lines Trucking" Special.

This 2007 collection of Indy roadsters was from the Tom Malloy Collection.

https://arch.smugmug.com/Cars/Tom-Malloy-Collection/


( Ken H)

[khyndart in CA]

You are quite right (again) Stu - 1966 #39 maroon and black - (I didn't look late enough)

In 1968 the Mallard - aka 'The Pepsi-Frito Lay Special' was the last Roadster to qualify.

The last Roadster to finish looks like 1965 and Gordie Johncock in the 'Weinberger Homes Special' Watson. He was 5th.

Of Mark's photos, #43 has me stumped.

Michael,
You probably have the correct answer now after 4 years and Stu was close. But I liked this photo to show car # 43.
A 1957 Curtis "Roy Brady Special " at the Laguna Seca "Corkscrew" corner. 2010.
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(Ken H)

[Kwaussie]

This link is a few years ahead of what is going on but it is fun!

http://home.earthlink.net/~roygmisc1/startoffy1/startoffy1.html

[khyndart in CA]

Last Sunday one of the most innovative builders of Indy cars, Rolla Vollstedt, passed away at the grand age of 99.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/10/25/legendary-indy-car-builder-and-team-owner-rolla-vollstedt-dead-at-age-99/

The Vollstedt Indy cars were well built as seen in this 1965 model which was a close copy of Colin Chapman's Lotus Indy car.
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(Ken H )

[shane038nz]

Car 39 doesn't look like the 1960 entry - here is the Ridgewood Builders Special (from the Floyd Clymer 1960 Year Book)

http://s6.postimg.org/3khgktwc1/Bill_Homeier_Car_39_1960.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Car 39 in colour picture has turbocharger - were they used as early as 1960? And colour scheme very different.

Car 56 is indeed the "Travelon Trailer Special" in which Jim Hurtubise set the then record fastest 4-lap qualifying time 2.5 mph or 4 seconds faster than Eddie Sachs' pole position time, but Eddie's was on the first qualifying day and Jim's on the last so he was 23rd on grid.

http://s6.postimg.org/t5tokojjl/Jim_Hurtubise_Car_56_1960.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


Not sure about the colour of the #56 car - reports at the time talk of "that purple car" and B/W photos show an off-white main colour. Perhaps an irridescent pale purple and deeper colour on the details.

http://s6.postimg.org/aerraioz5/Jim_Hurtubise_Pitstop_1960.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Note no air jacks, but several cars had them in 1961 including the Cooper.

Stu

It is indeed the correct colours and one of the most beautiful of all the roadsters.

[khyndart in CA]

It certainly was one of the most beautiful of all the roadsters.

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Jim Hurtubise in the " Travelon Trailer Special" # 56. Indianapolis. 1960

[khyndart in CA]

With the recent passing of Rolla Volstedt it reminded me of how things happened between Rolla and A.J. Watson at the time of the 1964 Indianapolis 500. It is best described here from Oldracingcars.com.

" AJ Watson's first rear-engined car was an unashamed copy of the very quick late-1963 Vollstedt design. Rodger Ward qualified on the front row for the 1964 Indy 500 and finished in second place.
Since 1959, AJ Watson had been one part of the most successful Indycar racing team of that era. With team owner Bob Wilke and driver Rodger Ward, the "3 W's" had won the Indy 500 and the national championship in 1959 and again in 1962. But then the Lotus 29s had arrived and after seeing Jim Clark dominate the Milwaukee 200 in August in the Lotus, Ward had insisted Watson build him a rear-engined car for 1963. Although AJ Watson was the most successful builder of roadsters, his cars having already won the Indianapolis 500 six times, his skills would not necessarily transfer to the new rear-engined "funny cars". However, Watson was not the only American trying to build such a car and at an Indy tyre testing session late in 1963, Rolla Vollstedt arrived with an extremely effective car based on a Brabham design. To short-cut his project, Watson copied the Vollstedt and had two new cars ready for Indy the following April. They qualified and Vollstedt's didn't and Rolla's dismay was deepened when the Indy 500 organisers awarded Watson the 'Builder Of The Year' trophy for 'his' innovation. Years later, he handed over the trophy to a rather indignant Vollstedt.
Watson built two different versions of his new car, one with a traditional Offenhauser engine for Don Branson and one with the newly-available Ford V8 for Rodger Ward. Ward's worked best, qualifying on the front row at Indianapolis and finishing second three times that season, at Indianapolis, Milwaukee and Phoenix, but the car never actually won a race.
Both cars survived and have now been restored to the 1964 specification. "

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1964 AJ Watson rear engine Indy Car # 2 at Laguna Seca on display. August 2010.
(Ken Hyndman photo )

[khyndart in CA]

The "Leader Card Special " Watson Champ Car in the photo above had quite a history to it as well and the Jimmy Bryan incident is recorded in photos on the web.
A conceptcarz.com summary; " In 1959 A.J. Watson built this champ dirt car for owner Ralph Wilke of Milwaukee, Wisconsin for Rodger Ward to drive. This car was the first to make a lap on the new Indy Raceway Park road course driven by Tony Bettenhausen. In April 1960 Rodger Ward drove the car to win a 100 mile at Trenton. Then Jimmy Bryan, a crew cut, cigar smoking giant dressed in Levi's and cowboy boots, drove the car at Langhorne Speedway. The car hooked a rut, leaped into the air and flipped, viciously killing Bryan. In 1964 Rodger Ward drove to 2nd in USAC National Championship. Texans Jud Larson and Johnny Rutherford drove the car in 1965 and Chuck Hulse drove in 1966. In 1967 Jim 'Herk'Hurtubise drove at Springfield only to have a wild tumbling spill, bouncing over the wall, through a catch fence and disappearing out of the track. He was scored in 5th at the time. In 1971, Snider pushed the 12 year-old car to the inaugural USAC National Dirt car title."


(Ken H)

[khyndart in CA]

A. J. Watson was a car builder and chief mechanic from 1949 through 1984 in the Indianapolis 500, winning the race six times as a car builder. Roger Ward won 18 races driving Watson cars. (Wikipedia)
I really like this photo from 1964 showing the Watson roadster against the Watson rear engine car at the Milwaukee Raceway.
A.J. Foyt in the roadster and Roger Ward in the rear engine car. The end of an era for the roadster was on the horizon.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g2NcUCsOrA


(Ken Hyndman )

[Paul B]

It certainly was one of the most beautiful of all the roadsters.

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Jim Hurtubise in the " Travelon Trailer Special" # 56. Indianapolis. 1960

A fantastic roadster Ken, such neat looking machines, state of art engines for the day also